#shoutout to the first comic for making it out of the discord pit out of pure spite. im not elaborating

[lordichamo]

Assorted daigo posts featuring funny lil hcs etc. yknow. to balance out the torment (lie)

[non-plutonian-druid]

Hello everyone I’m here with a theory I wrote up on discord literally months ago about how I think Reggie raised the sparrows based on the differences between the (in-universe) marketing for the umbrellas and the marketing for the sparrows. Its well and truly buried by now so im brushing the dust off and posting it here lol... we’ll see how it fares once we learn a little more about s3 lmao (also shoutout to @brideoflister who sent the pics from the tua bts book that i used to make like... all of my points) ((fairly minor) tua s3 spoilers ahead)

Part the first: the umbrella academy, and how reggie marketed it

assume from this point forward that if im talking about marketing, then i’m talking about how reginald in-universe marketed his superhero teams and that when i say “the umbrella academy” im talking about the superheroes and not the show lol

the promotional material for the umbrella academy is very 60′s-comic-book (I’m assuming, I did not do deep research into 60′s comic books); very cheesy, very bright, definitely playing up the "child” part of “child superhero”. Some of it is photographs, but a significant portion of the images used to market the umbrella academy is exaggerated illustrations (that, it is worth noting, use their faces). It’s also worth noting that these styles of comic book covers always have one specific word emphasized the most (the largest words, or in a different font); the INCREDIBLE hulk, the AMAZING spiderman, etc. Its the word meant to make the most impression on the audience, and for the umbrella academy that word is ACADEMY. 

The word “academy” is pretty stuffy, but it does place emphasis on the fact that these superheroes are kids, which combined with the comic book aesthetic is very interesting. Reggie did not want people to think of them as superheroes who happened to be kids; them being kids was part of the marketing. I would assume that it's supposed to be a “children = heartwarming and cute and people like them” thing, though I do wonder why he doesn’t worry about people thinking he’s endangering children when he’s being so blatant about it. Anyway.

@brideoflister pointed out that the kids are also marketed separately, with their own little personas and faces and fact sheets and whatnot, as though you’re not only supposed to like the academy, but the kids themselves (and opening up for the opportunity for the public to pick favorites). This serves a few functions:

1) to make them more personable figures that you are meant to look up to, like, trust, maybe get a celebrity crush on if you’re a preteen

2) to pit the members of the academy against each other (put a pin in this)

TL;DR: it seems like the brand (tm) that reggie wanted for the umbrella academy was that they were bright, happy, adorable children with fun personalities that you could look up to and adore. They fought crime, sure, but you’re supposed to like them (and maybe pick favorites) too!!

Part the second: what we know about the sparrow academy 

(note that I haven’t been keeping up with anything they’ve let slip about s3 and this is months out of date. has any of it been disproven yet? i have no idea)

the sparrows’ marketing is very monochrome, and WAY more emphasis is placed on their (I assume) tattoo symbol. For the umbrellas, the umbrella is almost not present at all, but the sparrow symbol is looming in the back

this is very ominous, of course, but also implies that rather than just being a cute group of kids, they’re backed by a larger force/organization. Also, the sparrows are only in silhouette. You can count them, and if you're in the know you can identify them, but they are being marketed as a faceless organization, not individuals. 

TL;DR: The sparrows are (presented as) a team first and individuals ideally not at all, and the public is meant to respect and maybe even fear them (and certainly isn’t meant to think of them as people).

Part the third: now for that pin

Reggie pitted the umbrella academy against each other both in their personal lives and in their marketing. We don’t know much about the personal lives of the sparrows, other than that Ben has a rivalry with Marcus, but we do know that they are being marketed as a team (if not a very nice one).

Therefore, my theory is that in raising the sparrow academy, Reginald placed must less emphasis on creating rivalries to make his superheroes work harder, and much more on behaving as a team

Of course I'm not saying that I'm theorizing that reggie taught the sparrows to like, support each other emotionally or be friends; I'm theorizing that his goal was more "perfectly in-sync machine whose pieces have no individual personality" whereas with the umbrellas, he.... didnt encourage personalities, exactly, but did seem to allow some room for them and used them for marketing purposes

As an extension, i theorize that it will set up an interesting parallel in s3 where the umbrella academy was pitted against each other in their youth but are fighting to stay together now, while the sparrow academy was supposed to behave as a unit but then falls apart. There is even potential for an interesting dichotomy between the conflicts between numbers 1 and 2; where Diego and Luther fought because Reginald orchestrated it while Ben and Marcus fight despite his wishes. 

(the fact that ben is in reggie’s favor enough to have a portrait up on the mantle throws a wrench in this, I’ll admit, but wouldn’t it be cool?)

[smuthuttpodcast]

Name/Handle/Alias

rlogarbagech1

About how long would you say you’ve been rooting for Reylo?

I tend to dive into things intensively, so while I knew there was an intriguing dynamic to Rey and Kylo's TFA interaction and I enjoyed what was teased in TLJ when it came out, I think it was a random wading into Reylo fanfic circa Aug 2019 that really got me into the fandom in a deep way. (Throwback to me thinking: eh maybe I'll give Reylo oneshots a try? And BOOM four months later I'm in a daze wondering how I've read like 80 fics, ended up in a writing discord - shoutout to The Writing Den! - and have five stories cooking in my head at one time.)

I like that the fandom takes what was on film in TLJ and expands the contours of that universe, stretching it into all sorts of configurations that somehow still made sense thematically for what Rey and Ben were going through. Whether that's in the context of warring lawyers (eversoreylo), Kyril Ren and Irena (voicedimplosives), archaeology Rey and Ben (disasterisms), a Harry met Sally AU (slipgoingunder), or Canadian politics (saint_heretical)... the creativity of the fandom and how it grapples with SW themes through all these different lenses of interpretation blows my mind. IMO it shows how SW's story themes can be individually interpreted, yet utterly universal.

What did you think of the way Rise of Skywalker handled Rey and Kylo’s relationship?

It felt like a backstep/retcon to what had happened in TLJ. I think CT and JJ wanted to make certain narrative choices but couldn't fully commit to them for whatever reasons, and the story suffered overall in a big way 'cus of that.

TRoS clearly went into the enemies -> lovers arc but leaned way too far into 'enemies', making the arc to 'lovers' within 2.5 hours way very weirdly paced, so it didn't feel like it was earned. The reaction of the audiences I was in for both screenings validated that. At the first screening, there was awkward laughter because it felt so left-field in the context of the film. In the second screening, the GA people I was watching it with felt 'this is really unnecessary' which I can understand because of the lack of buildup in TRoS to that moment.

Reylo in TLJ was at its best because there was time for it to breathe. I rewatch the force skype scenes often and the complete silence, the subtle acting, and the framing of those scenes, is so unusual and bold for a blockbuster at that level. There was also so much gorgeous subtext in what was going on, you could read into it what you liked, but there was definitely an attraction or a pull there for both characters.

You could tell that Adam and Daisy were delivering equally layered acting work in 9, but it was extremely rushed and weirdly edited. The ensemble could also have been a greek chorus for the audience/a bellwether for how we should be feeling towards Rey and Kylo in 9 but they didn't really utilise them that way and Palpatine ended up overshadowing the entire story as the big bad. The more interesting choice obviously was Kylo as the conflicted big bad and a redemption arc, but maybe Disney just isn't ok with that or was pushing for a different direction.

Overall, 9 made me wish we had more time to live in the push-pull dynamic between these two characters and the longing they have for each other despite all the odds, but luckily we have fanfic and art for that, which is why it's so great. Just a shame the film couldn't line those pieces up well enough for a satisfying landing.

Do you think the film understood why you, and other people, felt like Rey and Kylo had something together? Did it get their chemistry?

I'm sure they understood it on some surface level but CT was the wrong person to write that story imo. And JJ on some level disliked RJ's choices so he was trying to wind it back to the TFA dynamic which was more enemies-enemies with a subtext of them being compelled by each other, but not necessarily with a romantic resolution.

I think it's testament to the intelligence of the fandom that we saw the train tracks being laid in ep8 for a more interesting ending, just that whatever story-wrestling/behind the scenes drama/ego was going on at DLF meant nobody was able to actually able to execute that story with the justice it deserved. Locking out the story group also seems like a huge mistake and would've avoided a lot of the larger plot holes they seem to have ended up with, the dissatisfying Reylo arc in ep9 being just one symptom of it. 

What about the handling of Kylo’s redemption? Was it something you had to think through in your stories? 

How I envision Kylo/Ben's redemption and Rey's response to it is summarised by a lot of the fic that's already out there! And in the fanfic thread I've pinned on my Twitter. e.g. Starstuff by voicedimplosives, Morning by disasterisms, Astrometric Binaries by pontmercy44, Tactical Surrender by Trebia... there are a lot of ways it could have gone. A recent comic (08 Jan?) by Miss Bliss is also a great example and she distilled it down to 15 simple panels, not to say she simplified the ethics of the redemption arc of course.

The biggest effect that TRoS had on me as an aspiring creator/writer is because the film DIDN'T give me the redemption arc, I'm interested to explore how that looks like in fanfic. So maybe that will become a theme in my writing. Let's see!

I'm still laughing about how they yeeted Ben into the pit though. Can't believe those leaks were actually true. 

What did you think of where Rey landed at the end? There had been a lot of excitement around Star Wars having a female protagonist. Do you think she lived up to the promise of her character?

A lot of the discourse has already covered this but my take is: in TLJ Rey was the centre of the story, all of her actions were driving the plot and it was a female-centric story about incredible themes like self-discovery, belonging, loyalty, 'lightness', 'darkness', attraction, sexuality. And TLJ was very nuanced in presenting how Rey's role shaped the overall story, the symbolism in the film (all of which had meaning or at least tried to), and her clear growth through it.

With TRoS it felt like her needs took a backseat and were kind of ancillary to the action of what was happening. Or that she was a lot more of a passenger to the story. I guess that's how I would sum it up. If I think back to how TRoS ended I don't think there was a satisfactory character conclusion for ANY of them... and don't even get me started on how they did Rose completely dirty. 

There’s criticism of the movie that argues it’s akin to “fan fiction” and that is has too much fan service. As fans and fan-fiction writers, how do you react to that?

It doesn't actually bother me that much. I think it comes from a place of negative stereotyping and misunderstanding of what fandom is all about, especially for the Reylo community – because apparently believing in romance, redemption, and love is meaningless, simple, and weak.

The people that are in the fandom and know it well know that the fandom has a lot of diverse views in it, different perspectives, and some of the most startlingly intelligent and thoughtful people across the spectrum including creators, readers, analysts, community organisers etc.

The fact that there's a WHOLE ECOSYSTEM with fanfic and fan art and discord servers and gift exchanges and comedy memes and metas and all of this stuff just enhances my enjoyment of it overall. And it's an ecosystem that despite critics' attempts to dismiss it since 2015, continues to thrive.

I challenge those skeptics to look at some of the novel-length Reylo work on Ao3, the detailed sketches and concept art, the hours of thoughtful podcasting and REVIEWS OF FANFIC and say this community's not worthy of credit or attention. Even if you don't like Reylo, there's a discussion worth having about why people want to engage with it on a deep level and the transformative work that's come out of it.

We are doing this for free. Out of enjoyment and fun and discovering meaning. The level of artistry and engagement in this fandom is really astounding in that way.

I wish people would talk more about *that* side of the Reylo fandom rather than dismissing it as 'fluffy romance 50 shades in space y'all are rabid crazy' or whatever.

TLDR the question of whether Rey and Kylo have/had toxic and abusive dynamics is an interesting one to ask and we need to continue having the discussion, because from my POV it wasn't 100% clear cut from TFA, and it evolved in TLJ and in TRoS. BUT it should be situated in the context of the broader fandom and the range of views within it, + the many other interpretations of the Reylo relationship through fic and art, which The Atlantic's article missed. 

Are you still writing any Star Wars fanfic? Tell us about it! (Don't forget your Ao3 handle!)

I'm late to the game but am interested in writing SW fanfic as a way of exploring my own capacity to write and create, so yes! Did my first drabble in mid December and have a few ideas cooking, the first which looks like a two-chapter modern AU oneshot. Watch this space…

Thanks to rlogarbagech1!