#so I want to gauge how many we have here and self-shipper's opinions on it as a community as well as Yumejoshi's

[incarnateirony]

Let’s talk about subtext. Again.

This is a topic I've talked on before, but at that point, it was a fairly closed-in discussion about the (mis)use of the word "subtext" abroad, especially in regards to intentional undermining of discussion of canon. Lots of people use the word, but nobody really understands what the word means before they use it, even well-intended people, much less people arguing for the sake of argument.

So I'm going to start with this, then put it behind a cut.

I will warn due to the nature of examples, there’s some Megstiel-critical stuff included even if it’s not entirely the core-point of the post. Plenty of disclaimers about your right to fanfiction and your headcanons there but there’s a lot of stuff I’ve noticed Megstiel shippers just... don’t want to read, or something, so if you’re like super duper defensive of the ship, stop while you’re ahead. But for what it’s worth (though I absolutely SHOULD NOT have to disclaimer this, but it’s SPN fandom, so,) Rachel Miner is a doll and my reservation to her or her character does not reflect on her whatsoever. Actors are not their characters, and opinions of characters in no way represent opinions of actors.

But yeah. *points up* subtext.

(Edit: I’m gonna spare everybody a lot of time and say that if you’re a reactive Megstiel shipper that refuses to practice basic self-care or heed the warning, once you read this post in full, also read the notes in full, in order, to prevent any cyclic time wasting repeating yourselves, since you guys seem to have a very linear argument track that I’ve now watched across multiple people on multiple SM platforms. If you hit a redundant point, your only response will be *points at previous notes* or *points at post*, so let’s not waste kilobits. Somebody got there ahead of you and already ran full ouroboros in advance.)

Cool. Got it. So subtext is the underlying spirit of a story, especially if it is implicit and thematic to the piece; Canon I went into extensive detail in this previous post but the basic points to consider in fictional literary canon, since that was fairly single ship focused post; let’s just scrape out a few of the original sourced points on what fictional canon is:

Original works of a writer who created certain characters and/or setting

In fiction, canon is the material accepted as officially part of the story in the fictional universe of that story. The alternative terms mythology, timeline, universe and continuity are often used [...] to refer to a richly detailed fictional canon requiring a large degree of suspension of disbelief, while the latter two typically refer to a single arc where all events are directly connected chronologically.

Other times, the word can mean “to be acknowledged by the creator(s).

I think, in base premise, everyone agrees with the base line of this: Fanfiction is not canon; stuff made by the original creators is canon; elements like mythology, continuity, etc, especially elements directly acknowledged by the creators, are canon. I don't think anyone's going to argue this, and if you are, sit down, Carl.

Don't worry, this isn't going to be a "Destiel is/isn’t canon" post. I've beaten that literary field to death. It's just the continued misuse of the words that is pissing me off right now.

One thing you will notice, however, is that "subtext" is thematic and implicit; and at times, authors have commented on subtext and given approval, nods, or confirmation. In example, despite subtext, those areas are inherently canon, even if never-ever overtly textualized.

But we're gonna go deeper than this, because some people have wrapped and tied it up in their noggins that people have to literally continuously creator-nod at the canon, despite thematic and implicit elements of storytelling that are previously confirmed.

Schroedinger's Canon

If an idea is formerly established, but we don't take the explanation out of the box every time, is it really canon?

(Psst: The answer is actually yes, I’m just being a smartass.)

I'm going to give the simplest examples.

Demons have black eyes (unless of course, they're higher ranking.)

We are aware that this is an established premise.

Early on this was even textually explained.

However, it was never stated that only demons have black eyes.

There are many encounters where a creature flicks their eyes black and we recognize them as a threat. And what kind.

In some of these moments, they are not explicitly labeled as demons. They are just ambiguous bad things if we ignore the meaning to these thematics.

That said, if we don't have a "you're a demon!" or "I'm a demon!" revelation, is that character suddenly not, canonically, a demon?

The simple answer is no. They are still a demon.

The same goes for angels. We are aware of a variety of angelic reasonings and behaviors and elements that were established at some point.

However, there are cases that are not necessarily called out and explicitly labeled "I/they am/are an angel."

Let's take 9.03 "I'm No Angel."

We see a pharmacist attack Castiel. Castiel slays the pharmacist and the pharmacist collapses without any dialogue exchanged to clarify angel-ness, but a bright white flash of light.

In fact, despite only having seen the pharmacist prior jamming to music, the transcript goes so far as to include "He is obviously possessed by an angel."

Why though? Why do we consider this "obvious"? Because there are thematic, subtextual, enduring elements, that even when not spoken, they are implicit. This is the very meaning of canonical subtext.

Canonical subtext is not "A random line I can extrapolate into whatever the hell I want in a given moment removed entirely from scenario." That is just interpretation of a moment. If you're just pulling random lines out of your ass that don't have consistency, that is not subtext. The line is canon. The interpretation, if not built off of established thematic subtext, is just that: an interpretation.

A wild interpretation appears.

Logic is destroyed!

But the fact is, deep down, we all know this. There are thematic, subtextual, enduring elements to the show that we don't need ELI5'ed to us to understand. We may need them ELI5'ed to us to feel the need to win a digital argument with someone you feel is being thicker than Rocky's pectorals, but we don't need it to actually understand these events.

Previously established and enduring premises that are technically subtext to continue to adhere to include:

Demons are bad things, and generally possess people against their will. There have been a few exceptions to this rule, which canon made point to highlight vividly.

Vampires are monsters, and generally drink blood to survive. There have been a few exceptions to this, which canon made point to highlight vividly.

Despite these changes, we all understand the enduring subtextual mechanics involved. Just because Ruby got the medical certificate of her coma patient after Sam grilled her about eco-friendly recycled hosts doesn't mean all demons are choosing coma patients and walking around with their medical records now. Just because we've met a vampire clan that sucks on cows instead of people doesn't mean they all go vegan. Just because exceptional moments of these tennents exist do not mean we should assume this applies to every scenario moving forward, or pretty much the entire scenario of the show goes in the shitter.

Nobody disagrees with me here, right? Pretty sure we all agree here.

So the real point of where "subtext" arguments get obnoxious is when people choose to undermine thematics. It's one thing to not *notice* the thematics initially. Not everybody is a high-acuity meta viewer/reader/writer. Sometimes we don't consciously absorb them or we miss a detail. Sometimes a few years later the authors are bashing their heads off their desk because we're still arguing over a point they tried to make so they write it in neon letters on a character's forehead. But it's another thing entirely to willfully reject thematics.

Let me fall back to these previous examples. Angels, demons, empty vessels, etc.

Ruby recycled her body and made point to do so. In making a point, they evoked a coma patient who was considered braindead. This warranted a clean, empty vessel without a host.

In 5x21, Castiel wakes up in the hospital feeling a bunch of human elements after losing his grace, having been considered brain dead.

Now, we can banter headcanons on day on how exactly we went from (later quote of) exploded by an archangel (previous to this would be Raphael) to a season-gap and then clinically registering as braindead. Logic on my end would indicate Castiel hadn't been strapped up to machines to gauge his brain-dead-ness until then, ergo, nobody was there to gauge that he was brain dead. Unsurprisingly, doctors didn't fly out to test molecularly-recomposed Castiel immediately.

But that's a heck of a random element to include after them slapping it around as a unique item before. While subjecting him to itches, pain, hunger, and headaches suddenly and talking about his lack of mojo.

Well, that's because it's not random, and it's thematic, Carl. The same way it's thematic he acquires those as a human later (and technically previously-later in 5.4), and even Lucifer in season 13. That's because we understand these thematic elements of the story. This is subtext at this point, but this is canon.

(In this example, Castiel is confirmed an empty host in 5x21 in thematic fallback to Ruby's host braindeath, but also confirmed humanized/degraced in both forward and backward thematics.)

These things aren't not-canon simply because they didn't have Chuck step in to narrate it to you. They aren't not-canon. They're definite canon elements that quite definitely reached the screen.

So where is my issue with this?

Well, have an example: Recently, I've been having problems with possible-Megstiel shippers. (I say possible because there’s also been an insurgence of well-known-Castiel-haters brushing shoulders with the Megstiel crowd and rooting for her to come back to respark the ship FIVE YEARS LATER because, IDK, I guess they’re panicking about how gay it’s getting and realized spitting acid at TPTB for years isn’t working so I guess they figure they can try to side-write him off. And when they suddenly pop out being combative AF as below, I mark them as possible anti in Megskin.)

Now, you guys have followed my blog for a while, and you may notice I've never commented left or right about Megstiel, because generally, if people are leaving me and mine alone, I leave them alone. But the genuine fact is I fucking loathe it. It makes me furious to my core. And not "because Destiel shipper." I only went true dumpster season 13 and maybe started tipping towards it around S11. But I hated Megstiel since the concept of it.

So I want you to first imagine this set-up. Me, some friends, Destiel conversation thread. BOOM. Aggro Megstiel shipper kicks in mocking ship superiority. Gets shut down. They stop. Next day, repeat. BOOM, starts talking bullshit about more canon stuff to their ship. Gets mad when people counter. BOOM, kicks in another day, starts saying people only don't like Megstiel because it's a "threat" to Destiel (...I'm not sure how a ship that died 5 years ago is a threat to anything???) - so people start setting this person straight on the reasons they don't like it.

Now, if you're super-defensive of Megstiel, you may want to skip this section, but this boils down to:

Vividly painted consent issues

Lack of honesty in the character

Psychological abuse elements

Psychological is semi-relative but considering Cas' mental state over time, some of his stans aren't fans; Meg isn't the demon's name - it's the name of the girl she possessed, and we never learn more about this demon and who they actually were. But back to the girl she possessed: in 4.2 it was Meg - the real Meg - the human Meg that REALLY manifested the consent issues to light, almost in counter-highlight to Ruby expressly clearing herself of riding with a passenger. And yes, Meg* (asterisk because HONESTY, wtf is your name demon dude/chick/other?) acquired another vessel, but also talked about the girl's aspirations and suicidal attributes. The long and short of it is - some people have a legitimate visceral reaction to this because, especially and of all characters, Meg Masters (human) illustrated this as a problem and then people just sort of wandered off and acted like it was NBD, like, she probs did the same thing as Ruby, right?

Well... no. That's where things hit the line of headcanon. And you have the right to develop your own headcanon to build a little fanfiction corner to do what you want in it, but you don't just get to ram it down everyone's throats and act like "their interpretation of canon is wrong." Not if they’re the one following thematics.

Thematic elements are canon. Excuses around them are headcanon.

This bullshit of “all interpretations are equal regardless of who does or doesn’t have actual canon content and supporting quotes, references, or moments and it’s all just interpretation and nothing is true and there’s no true canon because it’s all an illusion and it’s all interpretation” needs to die.

Otherwise, just deadass admit that you think there is no spoon, there is no canon, and there is no consistency or theme to the writing going on whatsoever at any point.

Because entertainment is art. And yes, you can interpret things. But things do have genuine themes. Supernatural is not one big floating 3D image of floating cubes you squint at that is entirely relative to the viewer. There are in fact stories being told, elements had, and truths within the world setting. 

Otherwise, we can randomly choose to extrapolate that Sam’s hair isn’t hair, because it’s never molecularly analyzed, and we can clearly and reasonably argue and be totes-equal-canon if we state it’s actually a bunch of Leviathan Scales stripped into hair shape. And yell that my opinion is as valid as everyone else’s and just as canon as the people who thinks Sam’s hair is hair on a molecular level. Except we can’t. Because there’s common sense and base rules to reading things in context.

Points raised were

"well Meg fell down after exiting so the host is empty." Okay, and an entire fresh-black-cloud-possessed town fell down after a mass exorcism before, so that means what, exactly? Nothing. There is no implication or even premise to that, which is thematic and sound, and in fact, thematic evidence to the contrary.

"Well when Meg exited she got stabbed and she left her so the host died. THEN she came back." Okay first of all, the knife was pulled and she was never actually stabbed, but even if we add the argument she secretly got stabbed off screen (not canon) for her to have died to try to make this an okay argument - Okay, but... if demons could just possess actual corpses, wouldn't that kind of undermine the entire point of The Everything here in picking braindead hosts? Why aren't entire legions possessing graveyards themselves instead of just raising zombies (like Samhain did?) To be dead like that but not dead-dead and only-mostly-dead is a level of devil's advocate that hits the realm of absurdity. Like, they waited until she braindied, but not organ diedededead? What's the odds of it even working like that? ????  

THAT ISN’T EVEN HOW BIOLOGY WORKS. There is no implication or even premise to that, which is thematic and sound, and in fact, there is again thematic evidence to the contrary. And past even the thematic evidence to the contrary, you’re now basically going to, what, argue some bazillion to one order of operations where she experienced brain death BEFORE organ death somehow? Is it only interpretation that Sam and Dean probably have to use the bathroom every day cuz it’s only mentioned a few times and that’s the only time those body functions are canon? Common sense on basic body processes is just interpretation now?

And just to clarify for the argumentative shits out there:

It has been proven that demons can continue to occupy dead hosts, if the hosts died while they were in possession. Exorcism of the demon at that point double-deads the host (again, ironically, Meg 1), as they are no longer supernaturally animated. However, a demon has never possessed or repossessed a previously-dead host. (And as above, what would be the FUCKING point of Ruby then? Or ANY of these instances if we can just possess the dead? Of the entire show?)

See examples: Meg 1 was alive when possessed; Meg fell out the building and broke; but Meg was possessed and got back up; Meg died immediately on exorcism because she was no longer supernaturally animated. New vessel was found. Similarly, the boys will kill demons in existing-dead vessels from fatal wounds which they identify, meaning demons continue to animate a host.

There is no instance TO DATE of a demon going into a previously-fully-dead-body, or otherwise, you know, the entire premise goes to shit. Yeah sure Ruby would take care to leave her braindead body on the floor instead of, I don’t know, just swinging through and picking up the first 100% dead chick available. Or she wouldn’t have just done that to begin with and shown Sam the grave or death certificate. Because it’s totally easier to find completely braindead patients than dead people, right? Because again. Thematics guys. Brains. Use the cells in them.

BUT AGAIN, SHE NEVER ACTUALLY GOT STABBED, SHE LEFT CUZ SHE WAS ABOUT TO.

So it’s almost like there is zero reason to even believe canon is trying to make a she-dieded-here excuse because she didn’t get stabbed, and almost like that is all completely arbitrary fanon.

I just felt the need to address how there is no universe that excuse even works in canonically.

Now, if you want to use these headcanons in fanfiction land to write a fanfic where it isn't noncon, that's great. You do that.

But canon has been very, very vivid about clarifying these issues; sometimes bluntly (Ruby's exposition), sometimes subtly (Cas' braindeath post-Ruby's braindeath), sometimes recurring until everyone gets the goddamn point (No, dude, he's alone, and human, he doesn't have other voices; no, dude- that's his heartbeat- no, dude- okay, fine, we'll have Cas explain EXACTLY the period Jimmy died [available in the same bracket] AND show him in heaven to make SURE everybody knows Cas isn't lying because for SOME GOD AWFUL REASON THEY ARE STILL ARGUING WHY.); sometimes they paint it as a story for an episode (cow-vegan vampires), sometimes they paint it almost like someone's changing and have them regress (Benny.) But they paint these elements if they are meant to be painted within canon.

And no, choosing not to ELI-5 these things every single time isn't bad writing. It's them trying to put faith in an audience. At best, it's bad understanding of the volatility of their audience. Much of the art of writing is through subtlety and persuasion. There is nothing more annoying than a villain that monologues his every decision and nothing more condescending than bashing your viewers with kindergarten explanations EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

But apparently some people in this fandom need that, because otherwise they'll run circles yelling it's just subtext, but that it isn't canon, despite it being subtextual canon, and that maybe the bad thing with black eyes that came from a black cloud wasn't a demon because they never called it a demon maybe it was an ebonyoompaloompa and you can't tell me otherwise because they never said it's a demon and THATS JUST SUBTEXT.

...THAT ISNT HOW THIS WORKS. I don't care if it's about races, about powers, about story elements, or about ships. Thematic, implicit, enduring subtext is canon. I honestly don't give a shit if you like the canon implications, and if you don't like the canon implications, that's what fanfiction is *for*, but this is not some ambiguous void in which the universe doesn't have any true rules whatsoever just because they don't stop to explain literally every single event happening on screen at any given moment.

This fandom is one of THE. MOST. FRUSTRATING. PLACES. to even TRY to hold literary discussions in. Because people don't just move the canon goalpost, they just flail it around wildly while telling people nobody can hit or declare what a goalpost is and that everything is irrelevant and there is no goalpost, and there is no canon, only Zuul, and again, THAT ISNT HOW THIS WORKS.

But while we’re at it, why the HELL is the ship called Megstiel? We are fully aware that is the name of the human girl that was screaming about consent. Why aren’t more people bothered by the continued use of her name? Nonamestiel? Anonstiel? What even is this? She’s not only walking around with a (generously, at-best) questionable consent host, she’s freely using the name of her last dead, terrified, used and abused host and Megstiel fans seem to not understand why people have HUGE squick issues with this.

Regressively, they tried to take a potshot at Destiel and Jimmy with season 4-5. At which point they claimed, blindly, I was moving the goalpost with the following points:

Destiel launched 4.1, Meg addressed this 4.2.

Not everyone is a meta author deeply considering these things *IMMEDIATELY*

This is different from aggressively resisting the ideas years after the idea was entered into central fandom narrative

Generally speaking the Destiel fandom of that era adapted by writing fanfiction to alleviate the shared vessel issue, or OT3 fics that involved his consent, or ironically actually wrote fics premised exactly on what happened (Jimmy died at a splodey advent and was released) and was confirmed even hammer-on-head-blatantly in canon.

Trying to yell at or about people who literally didn’t know better because it wasn’t even a spark in the common mind at the time, versus aggressively refusing to accept it years after it became an accepted thematic canon establishment, are two wildly different things Carl. 

Blameshifting, gaslighting, goalpost moving; it’s all ridiculous. But we can cull goalpost moving. Again, about *any* part of narrative discussion. Because most importantly and essentially, subtext is actually a very important part of our everyday viewing experience and understanding of entire universes, as long as it is true, implicit, thematic subtext. 

I’ve also heard the comment “I’ve wished they clarified that more for Meg.” Well... no? Has it come to mind they never wanted to clarify it? They clarified Ruby at the same time (Human) Meg screamed about consent. They clarified Castiel. But Meg just jumped vessels and kept using the name of the girl that was screaming about consent. Talked about her host’s mental state. Did not redeem for years after the fact. Had no real compulsion to do so. Her redemption WAS her highlight of learning at least a *few* of her mistakes (though it failed to address many of them, respectively), and being different than Just Another Demon. *points at the various demon subtext above* If they wanted to clarify that... well... they would have. They did with the others. Unsurprisingly, they didn’t with her.

And people can say that’s just an interpretation, but son, that’s the canon. That is literally what is there, through and through, in the canon. Top down left and right from origin to sunset. Demons Are Bad Smoky Things That Turn People’s Eyes Black And Have Little Moral Compass And Possess People Without Consent Unless Given Active Resistance To Make Them Act To The Contrary is canon. “But passing out implies empty” is not canon; new hosts have done that too; “But she got stabbed so could be dead” is not canon, because if she died, well, how the hell was she possessed again beyond Magical Fairies Preventing Her From Organ Death In Spite Of Braindeath While She Bled Out? - these things are not remotely canon. They are not even subtext. They are not thematic. They are headcanon. And again, you are free to have a headcanon in your fic land, but you don’t get to act like the canon of other stuff isn’t there and just tell everyone else they’re being mean/wrong/whatever for... reading... the content... both textual... and thematic... that is there.

And this is tumblr. I fully expect one of the Megstiel fans to come crawling buttchapped out of the woodwork, but I do defer you to

Your friend crawling our asses for days and seeking us out just to argue

The lead in that wasn’t just purely about Megstiel, as much as inspired by a Megstiel conversation, and still addresses broader fandom narratives

Why you so mad, bro.

If you want to have a problem, send me an ask and we can make a new thread about it. This thread is for literary discussion only. You *will* be blocked if you try to start a troll-off over it in hyper-super-inflated-defensive-psycho-shipper-mindset running off of emotion rather than logic, especially after as many disclaimers and “enjoy your fanfiction” labels as are present.

But the bullshit claim I encountered today that these reservations are “just shipwar wank” rather than upset survivors and/or people with disassociative or similar episodes being terrified and horrified by the presented concept is so fucking trivializing I could vomit glass.

Or that it’s “most” people just using it for shipwar wank. You don’t get to decide who has abuse survivor history, or MHI history, that could be deeply and fundamentally bothered by this. Whether or not you have a survivor card of your own, you don’t get to decide that. If it doesn’t bother you, great. Yet again: Enjoy your fanfiction. And if reading these repeated drilldowns about the canon problematic nature of it bothers you when everything else is rando excuses, then consider why it bothers you to be given those excuses in fanon but not canon spaces, and consider how those of us who take issue with it for these issues feel every time you drop it into conversation like a nuke.

And the thing is, it’s not just Megstiel. Not by a long shot. Like I said, I’ve stayed quiet on Megstiel through the course of my time in digital fandom. Most of the time, I’m laughing out bullshit from bronlies that are completely revisionist. Sometimes, I butt heads with other Destiel shippers (generally wherein they read my “subtext can be valid canon” and think I’m saying “queer people should settle for subtext”, of which these statements are not connected nor implied. Not even in thematic subtext.)

And again, like in the previously mentioned, previous post about subtext, canon and literary discussion: Even applying any Death of the Author excuses is wildly abused. There’s a goddamn spoon, Neo, and I’m going to smack you with it. Because when they’ve managed to collaboratively manifest these details into fruition and they have in fact aired, you can’t just run around yelling NOOOOO at everything. You can’t just pitch random excuses like spitwads into conversation hoping they stick to the wall. Content needs to be reviewed in full context. Otherwise you are literally spit-balling. 

Even the most generous styles of literary analysis will tell you that, unless your interpretation is literally that it is a completely abstract piece with no intent, continuity, objective, moral, thematics or anything like a Wassily Kandinsky painting, and even then he had SOME sort of premise to his stuff. But hey, if you want to write a fully, top to bottom, consistent and thematic analysis where literally the entire show is made in an arbitrary and random nonlinear hodgepodge of non-events, by all means. It’ll be pretty hard to convince people, but go for it. You’ll probably be up against far more solid readings, though.

If we want to get into “full context analysis” while trying to diminish actual content in the series, then the time comes to argue if any content can be removed from the series, due to seeming non-canonical; getting everyone to adhere to this revised canon is its own feat, of course, and is instead a side branch of alternate canon which may or may not be widely accepted (just as in literary canon, there’s multiple canons for different genres, etc.)

An example of a premise for this would be:

I genuinely believe Megstiel only exists because all related episodes of initiation (notwithstanding her flirting with Cas like Demons Do in previous seasons, where he complied only long enough to THROW HER AS A BRIDGE TO WALK OVER FIRE, but instead to season six where it started tilting) were penned by rookie authors during a season that has been proven to have poor executive story editing and many plotholes. Initiating episodes were written by new authors on their first and second episodes, while the one writing the teleplay was simultaneously among the story editors that were failing in other areas, making double-checking their work even more dangerous. Failures to address issues like seeing her true face and more, which were previously established, can easily be considered as part of this.

(Before 6.10 Caged Heat Jenny Klein only wrote 5.07; she co-wrote with Brett Matthews, who previously only wrote 6.05 Live Free or Twihard. Brett Matthews was also credited exec story editor on this episode. So two newbies cowrote an episode and then story edited it themselves. In a season full of plot holes big enough to fly a Boeing 747 through so nobody upstairs was doing tighten-up work either.)

This would be an argument to try to strike it from canon considering standard elements of even non-direct non-Megstiel-ick, just why-didn’t-he-see-her-face wumbo sized oversights.

However, despite however logical this may seem to a large swathe of people, I am not snorting enough crack to think I can convince the entire fandom to consider this and revise the fandom wide canon acceptance. Ergo, I will not premise an authentic argument from it. 

But that’s about what your other options are if you want to, say, try to scrub out thematics of demonic possession/exorcism effects or whatever else.

Ironically, the antis that yell a bunch of long-disproven points about Destiel, who are grudgeshipping Megstiel, are stepping foot in the same things they falsely yell are problematic. Even if we argued huge devil’s advocates on Meg’s life state as... dead and her reanimating her post-full-death after exiting at some point... then that’s necro? Like they try to claim Destiel is necro, despite Cas being explicitly divine-revived and having his own heart beat on multiple occasions afterwards since then, thus not being dead? Or that it’s noncon, despite canon aggressively clarifying time and again since as far back as season 5 that it isn’t? Or the above-mentioned pulled survivor card trying to speak for all people with that survivor card; is it because they tried to pull the “angels trigger me because of church abuse” card and got told to watch another show? Because... like. SPN is literally about magical creatures and angels, that’s part of what you sign on for. We don’t sign on for central themes of rape, incest, pedophilia or any other wild shit. There’s other TV shows for that. That isn’t this show. If angels bother you, practice basic self care. Just like my self care involves avoiding Megstiel episodes, or any episodes with T.A.W. in them.

Do they think they’re gonna pull an “ah hah, gotcha” if they make someone argue it? Because... these... these things aren’t parallel. Not even close. And at the risk of sounding like “my ship is better than your ship,” they’ve made a point of removing these problems for one character, and with the other character, repeatedly narratively highlighted these issues directly as enduring issues. So whatup with the super ironic grudge shipping?

Oh, lemme guess. “Subtext.”

...*looks up at the wall of everything above* 

Myeah, no, that’s not gonna work.

[blaperile]

Homestuck Epilogues - Meat - Page 12 (Epilogue 2 Page 4)