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Hart House Changemakers: What Art Teaches Us in Perilous Times with Weyni Mengesha

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Theater, Conversation, Artists, Community

SPEAKERS

John Monahan, Weyni Mengesha, Liam Donovan, Anthony Palermo, Kimia Karachi, Dhanya Dass

John Monahan

Hello, this is John Monahan. I'm the Warden of Hart House at the University of Toronto. On behalf of Hart House Conversations, welcome to Changemakers, a series of fireside style chats between myself and inspiring folks whose discontent with the status quo propels them to be the change they want to see in the world. It's my great pleasure to be your host.

Today we are broadcasting from the historic Hart House Theatre, and we are grateful to be coming to you from the traditional lands of the Huron Wendat, the Seneca and both the traditional and Treaty lands of the Mississaugas of the Credit.

I am delighted today to bring you a conversation with the brilliant film and theatre director and the artistic director of Soulpepper Theatre in Toronto. Weyni Mengesha. Together we explore the topic – What Art Teaches us in Perilous Times. Let's begin and listen in.

Liam Donovan

Good evening, and welcome to Hart House at the University of Toronto. I'm Liam Donovan, a student going into my fourth year at the University. And it is my great pleasure to welcome you here tonight as our first public audience in Hart House theatre since the 2020 closure. Yes, welcome back. And we're also delighted to have everyone who's online with us.

With that, I am delighted to welcome and introduce our special guest, Weyni Mengesha. Weyni is the artistic director of Soulpepper Theatre Company in Toronto, and an award-winning director known for her groundbreaking work and community engagement. She has directed shows across Canada that have gone on to tour nationally and internationally and have been developed into television shows playing on CBC, Global and Netflix. Weyni has also directed in London, New York, and Los Angeles, garnering along the way and NAACP nomination for Best Direction, as well as Dora, Drama League, and Drama Critics Circle nominations and awards for outstanding direction.

Weyni has been an instructor at the National Theatre School of Canada and the Canadian film center and was co-artistic director of the artists mentoring youth project for seven years. She has also directed award winning short films, episodic TV, and is developing her first feature. In 2018 Waney was named one of the 50 most influential people in Toronto, by Toronto Life magazine.

Joining Weyni in conversation this evening is John Monahan, the Warden of Hart House. John's past lives include experience as a lawyer, a diplomat, and the inaugural Executive Director of the Mosaic Institute. But John also happens to be an enthusiastic and lifelong lover of theater. So, I imagine he is as excited as I am to begin this conversation and so, without any further ado, please join me in welcoming to the stage, Weyni Mengesha and John Monahan.

John Monahan

I am delighted, first of all to thank Liam for those kind opening remarks, to thank all of you for being here with us this evening for this special Alumni Reunion edition of the Changemakers Series at Hart House - What Art Teaches us in perilous times.

So, whether you are sitting with us in the Heart House Theater or sitting in the comfort of your own living room, we are thrilled and delighted to have you with us this evening. Some of you may have memories and I hope they are pleasant ones of participating in or attending theatrical performances in the Hart House Theatre in the past. This is the same venue that was famously referred to by Robertson Davies as the cradle of Canadian theatre. Some amazing legends of Canadian theatre have trod the boards in this venue over its century long history. But as Liam has already mentioned, for the past two years, there has been almost no treading. We did film a number of performances for this year's Hart House U of T Drama Festival, and the Hart House U of T Dance Festival. But we did so without the benefit of live audiences. So tonight, collectively, you are helping us to make very happy history. And it is all the happier because we are joined by another legend of Canadian theatre, the remarkable and visionary Weyni Mengesha.

Weyni, welcome, we're happy you're here.

Weyni Mengesha

I'm happy to be here, thank you.

John Monahan

Now, in case we know, this is your first Changemakers event, it may or may not be our audience's first Changemakers event. So, let's start with defining some terms. What is a change maker? Well, we use that term to refer to people who are trailblazers, often they are folks who when they encounter what we'll call a justice-, or equity-gap in their community, or in their society, they go about filling that gap constructively and sustainably. They are leaders by example.

Weyni, given all that you've achieved and all that you do in your work, we think you're a changemaker. How does that sit with you?

Weyni Mengesha

Oh, first question easy. I do believe that I am a passionate person that does not does not get discouraged by a boundary or a barrier for what I believe, which often causes change. Yeah.

John Monahan

It causes change.

Weyni Mengesha

That of kind of passion does. Yeah, I think moving through barriers and boundaries. And I think as you said, you know, trying to build those bridges to build, to fill those gaps has always been a passion of mine.

John Monahan

When you first thought about embarking on on a career in theater, did you know even at that point, that there were barriers that there would be boundaries that you needed to bridge or was that part of the attraction?

Weyni Mengesha

I didn't actually. I… theater kind of happened to me in high school where I was more of a social activism in high school. And when I did apply to theater went to apply to York University as an actor, I couldn't find a Black Canadian monologue to audition with really so that's when it became quite apparent. And that's not because it didn't exist actually, Djanet Sears is an alumni from here had written Afrika, Solo by that point. But the publishing was it was limited to find that and, and again, it was like one of the first to be published about a Black female Canadian monologue. So, what I recognized early is that the Canadian canon as it sat, needed more stories and needed more representation. So, I found another monologue, but went in and realized pretty soon after that, I could play these roles, or I could be a part of the change. And by the end of my first year, I switched to directing.

John Monahan

Fascinating. Take us back even before you got to that point because we're already at York University. You and I share some comparable geographic background. I know that you grew up largely in Scarborough as did I. What was it about theater that first attracted you as a young person, whether it was to become an actor or a theater or, or stage director, whatever it was, what was it about theater in particular, that appealed to you at some point?

Weyni Mengesha

Well, in high school, I used it because I wanted to tell some stories that I've, in the community that I grew up in Scarborough, I was part of a sort of a Black Students Association. And I wanted to tell something, a tell a story that was specific to us. And I had a hard time finding it. And so, we created sketches. And it was a theater teacher who told me, you know, you have a knack for this, and you should do something about it. But I really thought I was going to study law or do something else altogether. And so, I think I recognize it as a tool.

And I was introduced to Augusto Boal, who was sort of a became an early hero of mine, who was a Brazilian theatre maker who, you know, social justice in theater was one of the same for him. And learning about those tools, and all of it just felt like a really, it felt like my way, you know, it's like, you know, Toni Morrison has this quote, that, you know, when she sees sort of a sickness in society, she's not the doctor, all she can do is expose it. And that's the job of art. And for me, I yeah, that's my thing that I relate to, and I feel really passionate about, is convening people to look at the problem together.

And that's what theatre does so beautifully, is that it's, it's a process of collective visioning. It's a process of the world that we want to see and sort of a Democratic Forum and going, how do we envision that together?

And, you know, I guess I have a history of politics. My, my great grandfather was the emperor of Ethiopia. So, I was my father came here, when he was studying at 14. And when the revolution happened, I knew my family, a lot of them were in prison in Ethiopia, my grandmother and everybody was in prison in Ethiopia. I knew I came from this lineage that I was very separated from, it didn't know much about it. Growing up in Vancouver, I just knew that my family was there, and that they were looking to the Canadian government to support his mother getting out of jail. And I knew about this history of this political legacy in my family. But I didn't know how I was connected to it. And when I found theater, it felt similar to me, it is it's in sort of that ancient way of bringing people together and looking at problems and are looking for solutions together. So, sort of a long question, but I think it's, I think it goes back deeper than I then I recognized as a child, it was definitely in my home, my dad and the way that my parents raised me.

John Monahan

Almost in your DNA, in a sense, right, this connection to effecting change?

Weyni Mengesha

I think so I think my dad growing up, you know, the way that he did in that in that monarchy always felt a responsibility. You know, you don't you grew up feeling of responsibility to be a part of making a change or an impact on society. And I think those values are passed down to me. So, I think that's yeah, it's part of definitely a part of what moves me.

John Monahan

You mentioned Djanet Sears, a minute ago, I wanted to pick up on that because, as I told you earlier, I watched a short video that you did for Soulpepper back in 2020, where you were asked about the show that changed your life. And you talked about the show Adventures of a Black Woman in Search of God. That was both written by and directed by Djanet Sears. You were, I think assistant director on on a production that she directed back in 2002 when you were a toddler. But you said that Djanet Sears, I love this quote, and I want to understand it from your mouth. She gave you well, I'll say gave me my strut. Yeah. Talk, tell us what it means for someone to give you your strut.

Weyni Mengesha

To give you your strut Yeah, I mean, I said it impulsively at that moment, but it means it's still vibrates to me. It was um, you know, learning. In university, first of all, again, she was this woman who had written this play that I finally picked up that represented me. So, I located her and basically asked her to mentor me, and she has always been a change maker, a leader by example. And I, and working on that show, where she was doing something, I had never seen before with that many telling a Black Canadian story at that scale so unapologetically. And I wanted to learn more about Black Canadian theatre. And in my, you know, I said, I went to my directing program and second year, and by my third year, I was frustrated and with some of the gaps that I saw, and then my mother was like, You're frustrated, what, what are you going to do about it?

So, I went to the Dean and talked to them. And I created an independent study that they supported me, and which was really wonderful. And it was a paper that I wrote in search of the Canadian theatre aesthetic. And I went from coast to coast doing research, and it was all inspired by Djanet because she wanted to define what an African Canadian aesthetic was. Like, she wanted to understand that more and define it, and she had a big thing around writing things down so that the next generation could, could have and we weren't always starting from scratch.

And just knowing you have that history, knowing you have, there's an actually this really deep history of Black Canadian theatre that I never knew about that goes back a century, that kind of thing, it gives you your strut. Because all of a sudden, you're not sort of the first and you know, we'd like to talk about that a lot. We like to celebrate the first a lot. And I think we have to stop thinking that something that we should be proud of, and actually do the research. And there's so much history. And actually, we're standing on the shoulders of many people, right?

John Monahan

So, interesting you talked about, in a sense, standing on the shoulders in a way of your family history, but also standing on the shoulders of the theatrical history, personified by someone as amazing and accomplished as Djanet Sears.

Do you see yourself as shoulders for current and future generations of people that are looking for role models that are looking for mentorship and people to look up to, do you see yourself as that? And does that ever feel heavy for you?

Weyni Mengesha

I, you know, I tried to go. I tried to think about the gaps that I had to fill for myself to to succeed. And I'd like to make sustainable change. I mean, so when I couldn't find that Black Canadian monologue, one of the things I was really excited about was working on that or being a director to work on that kind of work.

And one of the things we did by our third year was create The Kink in my Hair with Trey Anthony. And that all of a sudden, we had eight monologues published. And when I got out of university, and I started to direct women were auditioning for me with those monologues and learning about that play across the country.

And so, you know, in doing in trying to create the thing that you're missing, I think you are building a stone for someone else to step on. You know, and it's important, I think we talk about that a lot. And with Djanet, as well as that we have to write down write down our history. And make sure that there's access to what we're creating. So, I try to always allow assistant directors in my room.

Soulpepper you know, it's really important that we have a lot of training as an education is at the heart of our company. It's all free. And even our academy is actually a paid programs are part of the academy. I was a graduate. Yeah, I was a graduate of the academy, the inaugural Academy. Yeah. So, I think those things like it's a it's a big part of why I want to come back to Soulpepper, because it's really important value for me is that being a part of supporting the next generation in a barrier free way. So yeah, I try wherever I can to make it a little easier and to inspire also next generation to want to come into this sector.

John Monahan

And also, to create really engaging entertaining theater that that is encouraging and fostering the conversations that you're trying to have, but doing it in a really entertaining way, which I personally think you achieve beautifully.

But do you ever do you ever think about both those two elements as as in being in tension with one another? Being trying to foster conversation and create engaging entertainment or do they seem like they are in alignment with you or is that you don't even think of them as two distinct elements. Maybe they're the same thing.

Weyni Mengesha

I think they're the same. It's that thing that you know, sometimes feels like a contradiction but that thing we know in theater that the more specific the more universal, the more authentic, the more people can relate and see themselves.

So, I think when just pursuing truth and pursuing those stories that maybe are not often told, I mean, the beauty of theatres, it's like, we tell each other our secrets in the dark. And what are those secrets? And how can we be brave about what we're actually sharing? And I think once we do that, once we open those doors, it becomes entertaining, because it's titillating. It's truthful, it's an honest place that, that brings us all together and you know, embodies feelings. So, I don't worry about the entertainment part. I feel like if we're truly, if courage is our North Star, often it leads to incredible humor and drama, and all of those things that we love in the theater.

John Monahan

Yeah, that's really interesting. I mean, it's interesting to watch people walk down the street, and they pass a reflective window, and most people are going to stop and check themselves out, and theater in a way that certainly the way you're describing it, portraying stories that are so specific that they are universally relatable people are seeing themselves or versions of themselves on the stage. So that in and of itself kind of engages people, because they're learning about the characters, obviously, but they're learning about themselves at the same time. So, I suppose that's part of the fascination of theater.

Weyni Mengesha

Yeah, I think, I think, I think we think that we're, we choose our narratives, and we choose our communities based on our narratives of life, you know, story is huge part of how we, how we live, how we create, you know, it's part of a huge part of how we function and survive. And I think, when we see stories from other people, we realize that actually, there's a lot more in common than we think it starts to break boundaries.

You know, I feel like the last two years where we haven't been engaging in theatre, and we've been a lot more on our devices, you know, I personally feel like it leads to that polarization a lot quicker, because the nuance starts to go, it's a lot easier to not consider someone's humanity, when they're not talking when you're not seeing their face. It's a lot easier to think about things theoretically, as opposed to seeing a personal story, an example of something, again, it's theater is the it is the embodiment of these feelings. And as opposed to only bringing your mind to something, you're bringing your whole self and you can't help even even even over film, you can't help but feel feel with the energy of what's going on on the stage.

You know, I always say to people, there's that distinct feeling. When you go into a theater, and there's nobody there, it's different. If you're in a theater, that's a film auditorium, you know, you might be like, oh, stretch out. But if you go to an empty theater, it's depressing. Right? We go there for that social convening, we go there to create this temporary community every night and to vision together. You know, I really believe it's that sacred. And I think we really felt the loss of that.

John Monahan

Because it can't be replicated, right? That, that two-hour 30-minute block of time with those people is never going to be replicated exactly the same way, is it?

Weyni Mengesha

Never, never.

And even though it doesn't often happen, the fact that you know, if you felt like you could yell out, if you felt like it, you could affirm a character's, you know, statement. And sometimes it happens, sometimes, it's uncontrollable, it comes out of their mouth, and, and then everybody will laugh, because they want to also affirm that comment. And, you know, there's this desire to talk to each other, you know, and I find in, you know, living in the States for the last year, and 10 years, and coming back, and just sort of recognizing sometimes real reluctant as Canadians, like, at a bus stop, you know, we like kind of quiet and then someone, someone talks about something and next thing, you know, everybody's chatty, you know, I think we want to, we want to have a conversation, but there's a sometimes a politeness or something. And I just think we need we need we need these places to convene and to recognize each other.

John Monahan

So, good opening for a little bit of conversation about what the last two years have taught us.

Of course, the title of tonight's event, again, is What Art Teaches us in Perilous Times. I think we can all agree that a global pandemic is a perilous time, bummer, right and but it's not as if that's been the only challenge, right?

It's a time when the racial violence has been. I don't want to say the peak. Although it would be wonderful, we're on a decline. But there have been incredibly notable social movements focused around racial injustice, opposing police brutality. Of course, we have war in many different corners of the world. And COVID.

So, yes, perilous times in the program notes for your last play at Soulpepper, Pipeline, which was wonderful. I I read this in your in your opening message you said, “planning our 25th season during a time when theaters were closed across the globe, made me reflect on what truly on what truly makes what we do essential?”

Can you just talk a little bit about that the essential importance of what you do?

Weyni Mengesha

I think it's what I was speaking about, you know, that, again, it's providing nuance to the conversation. It's centering the human experience over what kind of sort of ideology, politics, you know, it's asking people to really consider each other's experiences, you know, and I think that's what a bit of the reckoning was about was that there was enough time to really recognize each other's experiences in a way that we had never seen. I mean, we hadn't seen institutions talk about racial inequities in statements, unless it was like, you know, I don't know, a hurricane or something that was that was definitely dealing with me. But this is this was a social decision to be responsible in this way to be accountable in this way.

Which, you know, we had never seen. And I think that is because, again, social media and being able to watch George Floyd's murder in that way, it's an experience. And that's ultimately what moves us. That's ultimately what makes impact is being able to understand each other's experiences in a way. That's because we've been talking about police brutality forever, you know, I experienced things when I was in when I was a teenager, and it's the stats have always been there.

And that's what I mean, it's the experience that actually moves people. It's that song that sometimes a started a revolution, it's that photo from Vietnam, it's art. So, yeah, I think that it is, it's been clear, you know, that we need to come together. And I think people have been saying, like, I didn't know, you were going through this, or I didn't know that was happening in this community.

And the truth is, there are the books to know. But we haven't had the time and we haven't had the art and the experiences to really, again, let us understand that. My narrative is your narrative. And we have this you know, there's a lot of places that we intersect.

John Monahan 28:15

You knew this already, before the pandemic, I mean, this is your your area of expertise. Did even you learn something about the importance of the arts, of the theater arts, in particular, by being deprived of them in the sense for a good chunk of time?

It's one thing for someone who has kind of a casual observer of theatre or film or some other or live performance, but you've been steeped in this for a while, you know how important it is. But did even you learn during that period, when we were deprived of it?

Weyni Mengesha

I learned lots of things I learned that, you know, I learned unfortunately, and two things, I learned that performance art was not considered essential. You know, in as far as where financial safeties came in, and where government came in, at what point it came in, you know, unlike you can say, our counterparts and film where it was assumed that they had more financial means to do the protocols. But that was not.. there wasn't enough fast acting, we lost, you know, obviously, there's a huge blow in the sector, we've lost a lot of artists.

That was the first thing, and it was something to understand and to appreciate. The second thing was saying, we better look deeply, and we better examine how we become more essential, more obviously essential. The first question is, do people are we accessible enough? Do we matter to most of the city? Or do you only engage with us if you can come into our buildings, and you can only engage with only come into those buildings for a certain price point, and a lot of large institutions that's not accessible for many people.

We have to reconsider that. What is our positioning as a cultural institution in the city, what is our responsibility? How do we become essential like that it's that everybody should know that? So, I think it's both ways. You know, I think it was easy to sort of say, how could we not be considered essential? Like, it's time for all of us to take to really consider, you know, I think as we're doing with everything else in our world, we're really taking some time to consider and examine how we function, our place in this world, and I think theater needs to do the same thing.

So, for us, there's already things that we've learned, you know, because we were digital, because we created films, we were in schools across the GTA. We were across the country, across the globe, we were in more countries we've ever ever been in. And we started to recognize that we have to get out of our building, actually.

And so, we've partnered with the city, and we did an installation that's currently on actually, where we've done. We've had 10 artists take over the Toronto history museums. And you can see it every weekend in the next couple of months. And they're, they're animating those museums, and we're just getting out there and trying to partner more with the city we partner with Harborfront. I think we all have the responsibility to be more accessible, and to let everybody know, and to make it more obvious that we are essential.

John Monahan

Do you think there's a better understanding of the essential importance of theatre in the United States perhaps and the reason Canada, or are we we both have a lot of growing to do?

Weyni Mengesha

I think Europe is a good model, you know, just as far as the state funding the state funding, which of course, if that's the case, and you know, that you're getting that money, you're going to find more experimental work, because artists are going to take risks. They're not, they're, you know, they're actually following their guts, and they're not trying to fit into the boxes, that's always going to be a part of what happens. So, it's something it's, again, it's both ways, how can we begin sort of more essential? How can we get more government support, so that artists can be, you know, can take those risks, and artists can really speak to the people.

John Monahan

And so, the government understands that, that the arts have an essential role to play in building community, which is one of the goals of government. Right to their ministries of citizenship. Well, what is that if not a form of community building? But how engaged is the government with arts companies like Soulpepper and Canadian Stage and whoever else to actually intentionally work to build community?

Weyni Mengesha

Yeah, and I think it goes both ways. We have to prove to them that that's true. And we would love to see them be a larger part of our income line. You know, the arts are heavily you know, they count on the philanthropic support of our communities, which is amazing. But not everyone has access to that. All not all the storytellers on all the companies. So how do we create a more equitable system?

John Monahan

And then that makes it very much feast or famine, right? You're in you're, you're fighting over a very limited pool of deep pocketed philanthropists to be able to achieve your artistic goals. Yeah. Tell me, what do you see what else? What is the the role of arts companies like Soulpepper, in helping society collectively address some of the issues we talked about, like inequality and polarization, climate crisis?

The list is endless. What do you see as the role for you and your colleagues at Soulpepper or in Canadian Theater generally? And is that more of a weighty responsibility or a joyful one for you to be involved in that work?

Weyni Mengesha

It is just a realistic one, because we are the platform of the people, we have to reflect our times we have to make sure that we're porous enough that people can figure out how to get in there and to be able to tell their stories.

So of course, we also program that I mean, we had we've had green summit every year. We definitely feel we have a civic responsibility. So, I think there I you know, that does not I think most artists are trying to reflect something that feels urgent to them or to society. So, it doesn't, it feels it's our passion. It doesn't feel like a heavy load. But the structural part, how do we get people to come in? And how do we get people to understand that? You know, I think that there's a relationship to that the mental health health crisis in the last two years, and not having any access to social places to gather, and art.

You know, how do we make those lines? And how do we make that understanding a bit more clear? So that, yeah, that we see our ourselves as a civic institution in the city that is for the people that is supported by the people? Yeah, I think I think that the the part that's hard is just trying to figure out the structures and solving how theatre, which is not been, you know, not been thought of as a popular sport. Like it's not, it's not going to go see the Raptors at this point.

We have to figure that out. How do we make it more essential for young folks? How does the next generation take this up? You know, that's why one of the first things we did was make Soulpepper 25 and under is free for anything you want to come and see at all times. Because it's essential, they don't find belonging, if they don't feel ownership of the spaces, we won't have them. It's been incredible. It's been incredible. And not just for them. It's been incredible for everybody who's sharing space with them, you know, that it's intergenerational, which is a really important conversation to have right now.

John Monahan

Has the audiences changed, then in response to some of these levers that you're able to pull to make it more affordable for young people to attend the theater by reaching out intentionally, to communities that have been traditionally underrepresented in theater audiences?

Do you find… tell me how does the experience change for those people that are on the stage, those people that are involved in, in presenting, how does that how does changing the audience changed the experience of making Theatre?

Weyni Mengesha

It, it's that feeling that we feel when we realize we're in an echo chamber on Facebook, when we're when we don't, we don't want to be talking to ourselves, we're there because we believe that we want to have a conversation with the city. And it's our responsibility to make sure that that city that we're radically inviting, the city to understand that they're that they have a place there. So, you know, the artists love it, you know, like for pipeline, there was young people at all the shows, and it was, there's a different relationship to the to the stage has a different relationship to the culture, and even how you behave in the theater.

John Monahan

I was gonna say hope they don't have that same Canadian reserve that many of you alluded to earlier, where we are afraid to engage in conversation, I would hope that they would be able to enjoy visceral responses and reactions to what they're they're witnessing in front of them on the stage. And I would imagine that if they do that, that energy kind of feeds the players in a different way.

Weyni Mengesha

It really depends on the ratio of that night, you know, but I think it's our job to ensure that they feel that, that anyone feels that that's appropriate, you know, those are the things is like to shift these cultural norms like and to acknowledge, just like, a lot of this cultural reckoning has been a last year, it's just a bit about acknowledging. Acknowledging what was because I think a lot of times, we'd like to just move on to the better page. And you know, smile, and indeed be good as Canadians. But truthfully, the only way we can get to anywhere of change is to acknowledge its truth is to is to name the things that are the problems, right.

And I think we have to name that most folks, if you just go up to them. And they're they're young, and they feel like oh, a theater ticket. There's not like $100? Like, I'm going to go to a concert.

That yeah, that some of our largest institutions in the city, to name that what the demographics look like they're, and that they might feel out of place. So how do we send a message? And that's why I use the word radical gesture, because I feel like it's our responsibility to clearly invite someone who has not been invited to your home.

John Monahan

Right. Yeah. And to understand that this is their home too.

Weyni Mengesha

Their home. Yeah, yeah. And so how do we how do we make sure that there are also other access points that they're cabarets there are different ways you can engage with the theater and like yoga on the weekends and these are the kinds of things we're interested in is that this is a civic space.

John Monahan

You know, your your reference to the polite Canadian.

I'm flashing back on my late mother who I used to, in some ways, think of kind of the quintessential polite Canadian and she used to say if she ever had like a bad customer service experience or something she would say, I was so angry I almost said something. That that, to me seems kind of a quintessential Canadian response to things that perturb us.

Weyni Mengesha

Yeah.

John Monahan

Right. And, boy, we do need to sometimes let it out and express outrage and exasperation and and then do something about it.

Weyni Mengesha

We do, or we gotta go to the theater, and the artists will do it for us. And we can cheer them on. Yeah, but that is exactly its release. Yeah.

John Monahan

Quick speed round. Three final questions. Nothing scary, I can assure you.

So, first speed round question. We've already said the changemakers are leaders by example. Are there any particular leaders whose example you follow in your work?

Weyni Mengesha

Well, I mentioned Djanet Sears. She is a trailblazer. And she definitely made my path a lot easier. You know.

I also Nina Simone, Toni Morrison, these are people that I read their quotes, I read their work, and I feel energized, so brave, at a time that would have been, you know, really, really hard to speak out in the way that they did. And, but with art and with heart and just, yeah, a fierceness that I you know, I still feel quite Canadian sometimes. But sometimes I channel my inner Nina.

John Monahan

Oh, well, you go.

We talked a lot about your successes are in the introduction, in particular, and there are many in your career, many more to come. But would you feel comfortable sharing a failure from your professional life that you have learned from and what did you learn, and how has it helped you move forward?

Weyni Mengesha

It would be about compromises, which are great in relationships and in life, but in art, tricky, you know?

I think as a as an artist, I once I made a compromise about a casting choice. Wonderful actor, wonderful play, not the right part for that actor. But I was young, and I wanted to work in this huge institution. And I took the job. And again, wonderful actor loved it. It just wasn't the show I wanted to do. And luckily, that happened when I was young, because I never made that mistake again. And I think you just have to, yeah, you have to be you have to do exactly what you want to do in art. Because again, that is when it will reverberate is that when you put yourself there on the stage is when people will recognize themselves.

John Monahan

Above all else to their own self be true. Right?

Weyni Mengesha

That's it. So, I that has tested, sticks around.

John Monahan

Sticks around.

Where were you when you're 18? You were living, were you in Scarborough then?

Weyni Mengesha

I was in Scarborough.

John Monahan

As I was about three decades ahead of you. But if you can go back and talk to your 18-year-old self, about how to be a changemaker going forward? What advice would you offer, knowing what you know now?

Weyni Mengesha

Don't give up. They're gonna say no first, maybe even three times and then they'll say yes, or you'll find another path.

John Monahan

So be relentless.

Weyni Mengesha

Relentless.

John Monahan

Excellent. I love that.

All right, we have a few questions. As I said, some are prerecorded questions from students that are involved in the Hart House theatre community here at the University of Toronto. And if we're ready with the first question, it is from Anthony Palermo. So, watch your screens.

Anthony Palermo

Hi, my name is Anthony Palermo. I am going into my fourth year of the theater and drama studies Specialist Program at UTM. And this past year, I was a work study student at Hart House theatre. And my question is, how often do you program a show that you believe could be a risk in your theatrical season? And what factors lead you to believe that that show could be successful? Thank you.

Weyni Mengesha

How often do you program a show that you think will be a real risk?

I think all the shows. I think it's part of the recipe, right?

John Monahan

Always take risks.

Weyni Mengesha

Because if you're doing the thing that's already been done… I mean, this is the thing I always think. And sometimes we debate about this at work, you know, like this is what audiences like. So, what will we only do what audiences like? I mean, how will we, how will we know what the next thing is like, we also have to tell the audiences what the next thing is, it's part of our job, right? Like, there, we are being employed to be considering this all the time and thinking about listening to all these voices.

So, I think there's been many times and we've been told, it's not going to sell, it's not going to happen. And time and time again, I've seen that not be true at all. And it's been the thing that it's been the gaps being filled, it's been the thing that people have not seen, it's been the fresh voice. It's been that that secret that people thought was only there that they can't help, but they have to go and share that. And they have to tell friends to come and see it.

So, risk is an important ingredient, I think, in change. And I think that we have a responsibility to do that to push the envelope. I think art we are not just reflecting society, but we are cultural builders.

John Monahan

And I suppose if if audiences didn't respond to a risky show, you would learn from that. And it wouldn't mean that you would forego risk in the future. It would just maybe, I don't know, it would inform your next choice, but it wouldn't mean that you would take a safe choice. Is that fair?

Weyni Mengesha

100%. And, I mean, some of our most famous, you know, if you look at check off, the seagull was a flop flop, probably the first three productions, and now we're still doing it, you know, it's, sometimes we have to be ahead of the curve. That's okay.

You know, we have to be having the conversations that maybe people want to have, but they're not ready to have. But it's still our responsibility, I think, to be brave, and, and to take risks. And I think that also ultimately, our audiences are smart, and they want to be challenged. And they don't want to be talked down to, and they want something to strive towards.

John Monahan

We have another question from a wonderful student Kimia Karachi. And let's hear what Kimia asks you.

Kimia Karachi

Hi, there, my name is Kimia, and I just finished my fourth and final year at the University studying drama, theater and performance studies on the St. George campus. I have been involved with Hart House through the work study program, the theater student committee and the festival of dance. And my question is, what is your artistic process and goal for choosing the seasons shows?

John Monahan

What's your artistic process and goal when choosing your season's shows?

Weyni Mengesha

Well, I'll start by saying why I shifted from being a freelance artist who directed a show or two in a season to wanting to program all of the shows in a season. And it was because I think I didn't just direct a show, I often would go into the building and talk to the marketing department and say, you know, this is a show that these audiences haven't often come to this theater, how do we how are we going to be creative about like, to me, the story goes beyond just the play goes beyond just the performance. It's the story of how you tell audiences what we're even talking about how you invite them to come.

And often I would work really hard to figure out the creativity around inviting people in and you know, and build up, build up an audience for that show. And then there wouldn't be another show that sort of spoke to that audience again, for maybe three years. And then you'd have to regenerate that whole thing.

So, I started to get tired of that. And I started to wonder, like, what if we had a conversation with the city instead of just with one audience in one show? What would that look like? And how could we have a lot of artists contribute to that conversation? So the process is that we we read plays together, we have readers, we have a lot of the academies every you know, every year so we have a lot of Academy Alumni who are part of the company and in shows and a lot of them bring us shows and so yeah, the process of hearing the shows is it's constantly happening.

We're constantly having readings, and we had a series called fresh ink for months that was just playwrights reading 10-minute excerpts just to recognize new artists or commissioning new artists all the time. And then we find a theme and we figure out what what do we what do we want to talk about this year? And then we start to slot the shows in to have a conversation around that theme.

And one of the ways that we're accountable, I guess you could say, to our city is we have something called a community conversation for every show. And we think about what we're going to talk about, like what's the community conversation? What community leaders from different sectors can we bring together to have a really interesting and and, you know, enriching conversation about this play? And if we say not really anything, and maybe that shows not the show.

That's one of the one of our checkpoints is that it's like, what is that community conversation? Is it relevant? Is it interesting? Is it important? Is it somewhat urgent is it you know.

And not that we can't have just entertaining shows they can be? But often, a really good laugh, lies closely to something really important and deep in our hearts, you know, so usually, they're about something that strikes a chord in this place in time

John Monahan

Sounds to me, then, like your whole season is really shaped as an ongoing conversation. Rather than you know, I suppose as a freelancer, you're having a really great paragraph. Right. But you've got the opportunity to really extend your your mutual engagement with your audience over the course of a four or five production season this year.

Weyni Mengesha

Seven this year. Yeah

John Monahan

Is that a particularly large season, it seems it to me.

Weyni Mengesha

Not for Soulpepper. Yeah. So, we, we usually do plays all the all year round, but we started a little bit later because of the pandemic. But yeah, it's an average season.

John Monahan

Third question from a student. This is from Dhanya Dass, who was a very active student in Hart House Theater, who is now I believe back home in Malaysia, but let's hear from Dhanya.

Dhanya Dass

Hello, my name is Dhanya, and my pronouns are she/her, I studied economics and sociology at the UTM campus of UofT. I've been working with Hart House for around three years. I started off as an assistant director work study, and then a co-chair and the Theater standing committee. And my question to you is looking at how far Theatre has come since the start of the pandemic, what excites you most about theater right now? And as a follow up question, what have you learned about your industry when it had to go quiet for a while? Thank you.

Weyni Mengesha

Well, I think the second question we kind of touched on we do think.

The first question, what excites me: audiences, real ones that are not on Zoom.

But just being able to see a bit more fuel and for all of us to lean into change I would say.

I think we I think, again, this moment of recognition, this this, this reckoning we've been talking about, allows all of us to feel a bit more courage and tenacity in going in questioning, examining how we how we make theatre. Some of our practices have just gone on for centuries, and we've never questioned them. You know, artists work six days a week, and often 10-to-12-hour days in tech rehearsals. And if you have a family, it's just not sustainable.

John Monahan

It doesn't work.

Weyni Mengesha

As my husband will say, he’s here in the front row. It's, it's tough. And so that's something we changed. We now do five-day rehearsals. And as soon as we did that sort of fog of clarity, and it actually were way more efficient.

And it's just, you know, again, we've been doing things for so long in a certain way that we didn't question them. And I'm excited about questioning them. And I'm excited about our staff and our board who's really engaged, and I think is just, you know, whoever anticipated a global pandemic, I think we just understand the time is now to be brave, and the world can change. And what we should be doing is the best we can at the moment.

John Monahan

I want to get to a couple of questions before we wrap up that have come in via Zoom and here in the audience as well.

Here's an interesting Zoom question. During one of the lock downs, I saw a few online video pieces, incorporating dance and music that Soulpepper had a hand in producing. Could you speak about the process of creating those pieces and how that might affect your future work? As in did it open up new ways to think about creating for you?

Weyni Mengesha

Definitely, yeah, one of those pieces was A Revolution of Love which we partnered with the city on, and we sort of took over Fort York and had a big dance piece on it and which you can see at Soulpepper, at the website.

It started our relationship with the city, which we then after that it was it went really well. And then we ended up taking doing all the 10 sites, and we've created this ongoing partnership with them. And also recognize that we can make film and that we should make film. And that ultimately, we're content creators. And all platforms are storytelling platforms. And I think they have to be if we want to be, again, really speaking to all generations.

John Monahan

Great question from someone here in the audience. And that is, what have you seen recently that really moved you as an observer of theater and why?

Weyni Mengesha

Oh, boy, I haven't. What have I seen recently? It has been a while since I've gone to the theater.

Yeah, that was great. My husband helping me out.

John Monahan

That's what husbands are for.

Weyni Mengesha

I just saw Is God Is, at Canadian Stage, my dear friend Mumbi directed which was powerful.

And I saw, ah, it's been a lot of movies and everything else least recently and outdoor things and dance. And it's been I've been really moved by people sort of taking things outdoors and working in experimental ways.

So yeah, but we did a festival called Her Words last year, a bunch of new writing. And I'm really inspired by those playwrights and those plays that are coming out. And you know, usually we don't move this quickly. But one of them was Goneril, which takes place seven years before King Lear. And we're about to go into rehearsal on June 13. So, with that, a repertory Goneril and Lear together. So, I'm really excited to start working on that show. And that opens in September.

John Monahan

Amazing. Well, sadly, we are at the end of our appointed time. I hope that those joining us via zoom and certainly here in the theater will agree with me that Weyni Mengesha is a Changemaker. She deserves that title. And please join me in thanking her for her time this evening.

Thank you so much to Weyni Mengesha for joining me in conversation today. You can find Weyni on Instagram where her handle is @weynimengesha or follow Soulpepper Theatre on Instagram or Twitter. Look for @soulpeppertheatre.

This changemakers conversation was produced and supported by the great team at Hart House. They include Jenifer Newcombe, Lena Yusim, Michele Cheh, Amy Wang, Megan Mueller and Janine Raftopoulos. The Hart House Theatre team deserves thanks. They are Doug Floyd, Brian Campbell, Gillian Lewis, Tim Davidson and Parker Nolan. And a special word of thanks to our emcee Liam Donovan. This podcast has been edited by Janine Alhadidi, and the original music is by Recap, they can be found on SoundCloud. To learn more about Changemakers please visit www.harthouse.ca or follow us on Instagram, Twitter, YouTube or Facebook. Our handle is @harthouseuoft. I'm John Monahan. Thank you for listening. Bye bye.

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