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nobodysuspectsthebutterfly · 2 years

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A speculative family tree of Stark-Vale relationships

So @mrsjadecurtiss/@amuelia, while working on her great new Vale artwork, asked me if it were possible that House Royce had some Stark blood. (Based on recollections of Stark-Royce marriages, Bronze Yohn's visit to Winterfell, and also apparently there's a theory the Others attacked Waymar Royce because he had "the Stark look".)

I explained that while we know the Starks are descendants of Lorra Royce, it doesn't go the other way, at least not for certain. Per Catelyn (and per the TWOIAF Stark family tree), there was a Stark daughter, Jocelyn, who married a Royce (of the junior branch of House Royce)… but they only had daughters. Since one of those daughters married a Waynwood, and per Sansa's TWOW preview chapter “all the Waynwood men are horse-faced”, it's a near-certainty that they at least have Stark blood. But as for the Royces themselves, probably not, unless a child of one of Jocelyn's daughters married back into the Royce family. Which is feasible, and we shouldn't rule it out entirely– but if Waymar had any sort of look similar to the Starks, most likely it's a generic First Men appearance. (As the Royces are descendants of First Men, albeit with some adoption of the Faith, as they have knights.)

But that got me wondering, how exactly is Sansa related to the Waynwood boys she meets in TWOW? And if there was a marriage back into House Royce, could it be Yohn Royce's mother? (Or Nestor's?) And we've met other people from the families Jocelyn's daughters married into, how could they be related, if at all? So, I worked up a bit of a speculative family tree, to figure the generations:

(click to embiggen)

Notes:

We don't yet know anything about the Corbray and Templeton that Jocelyn's daughters married. They might have been younger sons, they might too have only had daughters, or no children at all. In other words, there's no guarantee whatsoever that Lyn Corbray or Symond Templeton are Stark descendants – and if there are any Corbrays or Templetons that are, they could be cousins of those named characters. We'll probably find out in Sansa's TWOW storyline, as the subplot of Jocelyn's descendants seems to be getting re-activated there.

Lady Anya Waynwood is an older woman, more of a grandmother-age than Ned's generation, granted. However, since women tend to marry younger, and Jocelyn could also have been older than her brother Edwyle, that could explain a bit of the generational skew there. And note Anya's youngest son, Wallace, is younger than her grandson Roland, and close to Robb's age, so the skew factors back out again.

We don't know Anya's family tree in detail yet– she might have had several husbands, one of those husbands could have been a Waynwood cousin and the actual descendant of Jocelyn Stark. (Especially considering the “all the Waynwood men are horse-faced” factor.) But as both Roland and Wallace are long-faced and brown haired, this is the tree I've gone with for now. Again, we'll probably get more details in TWOW.

This tree does not include Carolei Waynwood (widow of Geremy Frey), as I don't know if she's Anya's daughter or niece or cousin or what. Otherwise I'd've definitely included her and her children Sandor Frey (12-year-old squire to Donnel Waynwood) and Cynthea (Anya's ward), as I strongly suspect they'll interact with Sansa at some point.

Harry Hardyng (Anya's cousin and ward) isn't on this tree either, but for a good reason, as his grandfather Elys Waynwood couldn't be one of Jocelyn's descendants, the generations don't work out at all. (Unless GRRM is incredibly bad at math, and though he is pretty bad, he's not that bad, lol.) Alas, Harry will have to settle for just being the Arryn heir, not a Stark one too.

So, to answer my questions: The newly knighted Ser Wallace Waynwood (around age 16-17) is Sansa's third cousin, and his nephew Ser Roland Waynwood (around age 25) is her third cousin once removed. (Probably.) Roland would probably be the alternate Stark heir Catelyn was reaching for – shame, as he's kind of an asshole – though tbf his father Morton would have rights before him. (And Anya too, if it's her and not her husband who was Jocelyn's descendant.) Also, with how the generations work out, if there is any Stark blood in the Royces, it would probably be through Yohn's or Nestor's wives, rather than their mothers. (Making Yohn's children and Myranda the potential Stark descendants in question.) Maybe if this is actually a thing, these wives might even get names. Imagine.

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goodqueenaly · 6 years

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House Words Wednesdays: House Templeton

Welcome to House Words Wednesdays! Each week, I take a House without known canon or semi-canon words and present what I think could make sense as that House’s motto. You’re free to suggest more as well, if your favored House has not yet been suggested; take a look at this link to see what has already been suggested, and shoot me an ask through Tumblr if you have another House you’d like to see done.

House Templeton is a landed knightly House of the Vale, one of the principal Houses sworn to House Arryn; its sigil is nine stars, one of seven points and eight of six points, on a gold saltire, on a black field. Although the Templetons are only landed knights, and thus presumably lack some of the privileges of lordly rule, they are still counted as one of the most prominent families in the Vale (GRRM even cites the Templetons in that SSM). Indeed, the Templetons have been close to the Arryns from the very beginning: Ser Luceon Templeton, the Knight of Ninestars, was one of the major figures in the decisive Battle of the Seven Stars which fixed House Arryn, rather than House Royce, as the preeminent power in the Vale (and Ser Luceon himself may have the possibly dubious distinction of slaying King Robar II Royce). The (unnamed) Knight of Ninestars was also a notable warrior in the reign of King Daeron II: at the Battle of the Redgrass Field, the head of House Templeton, in the van led by Lord Donnel Arryn, was slain by Daemon Blackfyre alongside “Wild” Wyl Waynwood. The Templetons may even have Stark blood in them today: Jocelyn Stark, aunt to Lord Rickard, wed Benedict Royce, a younger son of the junior-branch Lord Raymar Royce; of their three daughters, Catelyn notes, the youngest might have wed a Templeton.

The current head of the House and Knight of Ninestars is Ser Symond Templeton. A man of cold blue eyes, pointed beak nose, and a black and pointed beard (Sansa compares him to “some elegant bird of prey”), Symond joins the coalition of Lords Declarant against Petyr Baelish's regency. Journeying to the Eyrie to speak with Littlefinger, however, Symond finds himself, and the rest of the Lords Declarant, neatly outwitted. When Ser Symond threatens that “each of us have a thousand men at the foot of this mountain”, Littlefinger glibly replies that the foot of the mountain is “a splendid place for them”; as @poorquentyn once nicely noted, that exchange underscores just how hollow the threat of the Lords Declarant is in the face of the game Littlefinger is playing, since the Lords Declarant are (obviously) unwilling to dispatch their armies against The Arryn, even when The Arryn is being held by Littlefinger as regent. Littlefinger confidently declares later to Sansa that he would befriend Symond, and by the end of AFFC he appears to have succeeded: Ser Symond and Lady Anya Waynwood attend Lord Lyonel Corbray's Littlefinger-arranged wedding “to everyone's astonishment”.

For the Templeton words, I settled on Though Moving Unmoved. Cardinal Luigi d'Este, son of the Duke of Modena in the mid-sixteenth century, took for one of his devices the starry firmament and the motto In motu immotum, “Unmoved in movement”; as the stars move but appear to be still, so he would be active and yet firm and unmoved in his beliefs. I like this for the Templetons as well: though the stars on their banners recall moving celestial bodies, they themselves would remain loyal to the Arryns of the Vale, unmoved in their firm defense of the Eyrie and its lords. There's a nice echo there as well about the Andals coming over the Narrow Sea and thereafter conquering the Vale; the ancestor of House Templeton moved to Westeros but remained unmoved in his belief in the Seven (hence that seven-pointed star at the center of the Templeton sigil). I also like this motto for the way it plays on Symond's comment to Littlefinger, and the latter's reply, in “Alayne I” AFFC: Templeton might have moved his forces in a show of strength to the foot of the Giant's Lance, but there they would remain, "unmoved" against the "evil counselor" who held Lord Robert and the Vale in his power.

Let me know how you like these words for the Templetons of Ninestars. Next week goes from the Vale to the Crownlands and from a family whose head resembles "some elegant bird of prey" to a family with an avian-themed sigil.

#asoiaf meta #house words #house words wednesdays #house templeton #symond templeton #affc

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molicioushat · 6 years

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Heirs in the Vale Part I Lady of Mystery

In TWOW Sansa’s chapters have been set up to focus on Robert Arryn’s heir, Harry Hardyng. But there is another heir in the Vale that will play an important role in her arc?

“Your father's father had no siblings, but his father had a sister who married a younger son of Lord Raymar Royce, of the junior branch. They had three daughters, all of whom wed Vale lordlings. A Waynwood and a Corbray, for certain. The youngest . . . it might have been a Templeton, but . . .“ Catelyn V, A Storm of Swords

The North is in turmoil without a Stark in Winterfell. The North is already rallying to put forth a Stark restoration, whether it will be Jon or Rickon that they will finally rally behind is unknown at this point. But the North isn’t the only one with an interest in Winterfell. As Catelyn said to Robb, Jocelyn Stark had descendants in the Vale. While her daughters definitely married into House Waynwood and House Corbray, the third is uncertain. However, this Lady Royce’s children would come behind her elder sisters’ children in the Stark succession, so they are less relevant as of now.

We also don’t have as much information to go off of for the youngest Royce daughter. Catelyn is also uncertain if this daughter actually did marry into House Templeton. The World of Ice and Fire does not yield any information on the Stark family tree. Based on the description of Ser Symond Templeton (black hair, sharp pointy beard, cold blue eyes, beak of a nose) I don’t believe he is a relation of House Stark. Ser Symond gives more the impression of “some elegant bird of prey” as opposed to the classic Stark look, often called horse face derogatively. This does not mean that some other Templeton couldn’t be descended from Lady Jocelyn, but we do not have enough to say.

This does not mean that some other Templeton couldn’t be descended from Lady Jocelyn. Personally I think that this Lady Royce did not marry into House Templeton. The Templeton reference is likely an example of unreliable narrator. Much like the name of Joffrey’s sword, this 3rd daughter is misremembered. It’s not an unusual thing to forget a second cousin one removed. Speaking from personal experience of someone from a large family, if you don’t see your extended family often, you will lose track of people. (Makes weddings awkward when everyone remembers your name because you’re the baby, but hell if you remember any of their names!) Now Ned probably would have remembered his cousins in the Vale since he was fostered there and most likely spent time with them. But Catelyn, who is getting this information second hand from Ned, hasn’t spent time with this relatives. She’s not going to remember them.

And so we’re left to speculate without information. The mystery of the the 3rd Lady Royce will remain so unless we get more information in TWOW.

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butterflies-dragons · 3 years

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GRRM has projected his love for medieval tourneys, heraldry, pageantry, knights and chivalry on Sansa Stark

Art credit: Heinrich von Breslau (Codex Manesse, 14. Jahrhundert)

GRRM:

“That whole story (The Hedge Knight) is built around a tournament. I love medieval tournaments, reading about them, writing about them. There's of course some of them in the main books, but this was an opportunity in a time of peace, not war, to look at a medieval tournament with all its pageantry and the jousting and the combat and reveal a little of Westerosi History”.

—In conversation: George R.R. Martin with Dan Jones FULL EVENT- August 2019

SANSA:

"The talk in the yard is we shall have a tourney, my lord," Jory said as he resumed his seat. "They say that knights will come from all over the realm to joust and feast in honor of your appointment as Hand of the King."

Arya could see that her father was not very happy about that. "Do they also say this is the last thing in the world I would have wished?"

Sansa's eyes had grown wide as the plates. "A tourney," she breathed. She was seated between Septa Mordane and Jeyne Poole, as far from Arya as she could get without drawing a reproach from Father. "Will we be permitted to go, Father?"

"You know my feelings, Sansa. It seems I must arrange Robert's games and pretend to be honored for his sake. That does not mean I must subject my daughters to this folly."

"Oh, please," Sansa said. "I want to see."

Septa Mordane spoke up. "Princess Myrcella will be there, my lord, and her younger than Lady Sansa. All the ladies of the court will be expected at a grand event like this, and as the tourney is in your honor, it would look queer if your family did not attend."

Father looked pained. "I suppose so. Very well, I shall arrange a place for you, Sansa." He saw Arya. "For both of you."

"I don't care about their stupid tourney," Arya said. She knew Prince Joffrey would be there, and she hated Prince Joffrey.

Sansa lifted her head. "It will be a splendid event. You shan't be wanted."

—A Game of Thrones - Arya II

Sansa rode to the Hand's tourney with Septa Mordane and Jeyne Poole, in a litter with curtains of yellow silk so fine she could see right through them. They turned the whole world gold. Beyond the city walls, a hundred pavilions had been raised beside the river, and the common folk came out in the thousands to watch the games. The splendor of it all took Sansa’s breath away; the shining armor, the great chargers caparisoned in silver and gold, the shouts of the crowd, the banners snapping in the wind…and the knights themselves, the knights most of all.

“It is better than the songs,” she whispered when they found the places that her father had promised her, among the high lords and ladies. Sansa was dressed beautifully that day, in a green gown that brought out the auburn of her hair, and she knew they were looking at her and smiling.

They watched the heroes of a hundred songs ride forth, each more fabulous than the last.

—A Game of Thrones - Sansa II

GRRM:

“Tolkien imitators who came after him, a lot of them created a sort of Disneyland Middle Ages, you know, a sort of Middle Ages like you might see at a Renaissance Faire, but you don't have the dysentery, or the torture, or the leprosy, or the innate sexism, or classism, or racism that was so built into so much of that world for so many centuries, you really have to take, you know, I like the knights in shinning armor, the heraldry and pageantry as much as anyone, but you also have to include the fleas."

— Neuchâtel International Fantastic Film Festival - NIFFF 2014

The novelist is midway through something of a European tour. After his trip to Switzerland, he is due in Scotland for the Edinburgh book festival. It has often been suggested that Ivanhoe (by the Scottish 19th-century novelist Walter Scott) was, alongside the War of the Roses, a major influence on A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones.

Martin was first turned on to Ivanhoe by the 1952 MGM movie starring Robert Taylor, George Sanders and a young Elizabeth Taylor. "I think it was Elizabeth Taylor at the peak of her...," his voice tails off before he clarifies. "She was the most beautiful woman in the world. I think I was nine years old when I saw that movie. How could you not fall in love with her? But the jousting and the pageantry of it made me love that story. Later, in high school, I did read that book. For a modern reader, it's a little tough to get through. The prose is very Victorian and thick but if you fight your way through it, the story is there. It has everything the movie has and more – the heraldry and jousting and the insight into the times. It was an influence in that sense."

—GRRM - Independent - 2014

SANSA:

The green knight laughed again. "Barristan the Old, you mean. Don't flatter him too sweetly, child, he thinks overmuch of himself already." He smiled at her. "Now, wolf girl, if you can put a name to me as well, then I must concede that you are truly our Hand's daughter."

Joffrey stiffened beside her. "Have a care how you address my betrothed."

"I can answer," Sansa said quickly, to quell her prince's anger. She smiled at the green knight. "Your helmet bears golden antlers, my lord. The stag is the sigil of the royal House. King Robert has two brothers. By your extreme youth, you can only be Renly Baratheon, Lord of Storm's End and councillor to the king, and so I name you."

—A Game of Thrones - Sansa I

No one ransomed the northmen, though. One fat lordling haunted the kitchens, Hot Pie told her, always looking for a morsel. His mustache was so bushy that it covered his mouth, and the clasp that held his cloak was a silver-and-sapphire trident. He belonged to Lord Tywin, but the fierce, bearded young man who liked to walk the battlements alone in a black cloak patterned with white suns had been taken by some hedge knight who meant to get rich off him. Sansa would have known who he was, and the fat one too, but Arya had never taken much interest in titles and sigils. Whenever Septa Mordane had gone on about the history of this house and that house, she was inclined to drift and dream and wonder when the lesson would be done.

—A Clash of Kings - Arya VII

Petyr had given her a roll of arms to study, so she knew their heraldry if not their faces. The red castle was Redfort, plainly; a short man with a neat grey beard and mild eyes. Lady Anya was the only woman amongst the Lords Declarant, and wore a deep green mantle with the broken wheel of Waynwood picked out in beads of jet. Six silver bells on purple, that was Belmore, pear-bellied and round of shoulder. His beard was a ginger-grey horror sprouting from a multiplicity of chins. Symond Templeton's, by contrast, was black and sharply pointed. A beak of a nose and icy blue eyes made the Knight of Ninestars look like some elegant bird of prey. His doublet displayed nine black stars within a golden saltire. Young Lord Hunter's ermine cloak confused her till she spied the brooch that pinned it, five silver arrows fanned. Alayne would have put his age closer to fifty than to forty. His father had ruled at Longbow Hall for nigh on sixty years, only to die so abruptly that some whispered the new lord had hastened his inheritance. Hunter's cheeks and nose were red as apples, which bespoke a certain fondness for the grape. She made certain to fill his cup as often as he emptied it.

—A Feast for Crows - Alayne I

Harry was staring at her. He knows who I am, she realized, and he does not seem pleased to see me. It was only then that she took note of his heraldry. Though his surcoat and horse trappings were patterned in the red-and-white diamonds of House Hardyng, his shield was quartered. The arms of Hardyng and Waynwood were displayed in the first and third quarters, respectively, but in the second and fourth quarters he bore the moon-and-falcon of House Arryn, sky blue and cream. Sweetrobin will not like that.

—The Winds of Winter - Alayne I

GRRM:

Firstly, thanks for that very thorough response on the tournaments and knighthood. Fascinating. In particular given the notes about _Ivanhoe_ and its influence -- I've only witnessed the A&E production of it, although maybe about time I read it. Seems it might be ripe for ideas.

IVANHOE is well worth a read, although the style is very old fashioned, of course. Still it has some fabulous characters and scenes, and so far as I know the definitive portrayal of a medieval tournament, both melee and joust.

It has been filmed three times that I know of. The recent A&E production had some good moments, as did the older Sam Neill version... the CLASSIC version, however, is still MGM's 50s version, starring Robert Taylor, Elizabeth Taylor, and George Sanders. The jousts are wonderful, Liz is radiant, and George Sanders steals the film as Bois-Gilbert. You should definitely rent that one and have a look.

—GRRM - 1999

SANSA:

She loved King's Landing; the pageantry of the court, the high lords and ladies in their velvets and silks and gemstones, the great city with all its people. The tournament had been the most magical time of her whole life, and there was so much she had not seen yet, harvest feasts and masked balls and mummer shows. She could not bear the thought of losing it all.

—A Game of Thrones - Sansa III

She closed the window, gathered up the fallen papers, and stacked them on the table. One was a list of the competitors. Four-and-sixty knights had been invited to vie for places amongst Lord Robert Arryn's new Brotherhood of Winged Knights, and four and-sixty knights had come to tilt for the right to wear falcon's wings upon their warhelms and guard their lord.

The competitors came from all over the Vale, from the mountain valleys and the coast, from Gulltown and the Bloody Gate, even the Three Sisters. Though a few were promised, only three were wed; the eight victors would be expected to spend the next three years at Lord Robert's side, as his own personal guard (Alayne had suggested seven, like the Kingsguard, but Sweetrobin had insisted that he must have more knights than King Tommen), so older men with wives and children had not been invited.

And they came, Alayne thought proudly. They all came.

It had fallen out just as Petyr said it would, the day the ravens flew. "They're young, eager, hungry for adventure and renown. Lysa would not let them go to war. This is the next best thing. A chance to serve their lord and prove their prowess. They will come. Even Harry the Heir." He had smoothed her hair and kissed her forehead. "What a clever daughter you are."

It was clever. The tourney, the prizes, the winged knights, it had all been her own notion. Lord Robert's mother had filled him full of fears, but he always took courage from the tales she read him of Ser Artys Arryn, the Winged Knight of legend, founder of his line. Why not surround him with Winged Knights? She had thought one night, after Sweetrobin had finally drifted off to sleep. His own Kingsguard, to keep him safe and make him brave. And no sooner did she tell Petyr her idea than he went out and made it happen.

—The Winds of Winter - Alayne I

GRRM:

Amon Shin in Maine asks, “If you lived in Westeros, which house would you like to be part of, or in which area would you like to live?”

Well, you know, there’s something to be said for being an honorable Stark, but you’re kinda cold all the time and poor and so forth. And you have a lot of land, but there’s not a lot of stuff on it, you know? On the other hand, if you’re a Lannister, you have a nice house and all the gold you want and all of that stuff. So, there’s a lot to be said for being a Lannister. I don’t know. Maybe I could probably see me being a Lannister. And I would always pay my debts.

—A Dance with Dragons | George R.R. Martin | Talks at Google - July 2011

SANSA:

They were going to take it all away; the tournaments and the court and her prince, everything, they were going to send her back to the bleak grey walls of Winterfell and lock her up forever. Her life was over before it had begun.

—A Game of Thrones - Sansa III

* * *

Art credit: Loras Tyrell gives Sansa Stark a rose at the Hand’s Tournament by Jonathan Burton.

As you can see, Sansa loves tourneys because GRRM loves tourneys.

During the events that take place in the ASOIAF Books, we find 5 tourneys and Sansa Stark is directly or indirectly linked with all of them:

The Hand's tourney, a tourney in honor of Sansa’s father, Eddard Stark. Sansa was unofficially crowned the Queen of Love and Beauty by the Knight of Flowers, Loras Tyrell. GRRM wrote this passage as a resemblance to the Great tourney at Harrenhal, hiding hints and reversing colors.

Tourney on King Joffrey's name day, a tourney in honor of Sansa’s betrothed. Sansa defended and saved Dontos Hollard’s life.

Melee at Bitterbridge, Brienne won the melee and earned a place in Renly’s Kingsguard. Later she swore his allegiance to Sansa’s mother, Catelyn Stark, and made an oath to find Sansa Stark. Brienne also wields Oathkeeper, a sword made of Ice (House Stark ancestral sword).

Melee at Runestone, this event was organized with the sole intention of knighting Harrold Hardyng, Alayne Stone’s betrothed.

Tourney at the Gates of the Moon to select the members of the Brotherhood of Winged Knights, created and organized by Alayne Stone.

Sansa is also linked with other important tourneys that happened previously to the events of the ASOIAF Books:

Tourney at Ashford Meadows (The Hedge Knight), GRRM wrote the Hedge Knight when he was in the middle of writing A Clash of Kings, and he made sure of link the five initial champions of the Tourney at Ashford Meadows (Baratheon, Lannister, Tyrell, Hardyng & Targaryen) with Sansa’s suitors and betrothed. So Willas Tyrell and Harrold Hardyng are not a coincidence in Sansa’s arc, GRRM had already planned for this since he was writing A Clash of Kings.

Great tourney at Harrenhal, this tourney was won by Rhaegar Targaryen and as the champion he crowned Lyanna Stark (Sansa’s aunt & Jon Snow’s mother) as his Queen of Love and Beauty. And take note at this very interesting detail: Rhaegar Targaryen wearing an armor adorned with rubies (red) gave Lyanna Stark a crown of winter roses (blue), while Loras Tyrell, the Knight of Flowers, wearing an armor adorned with sapphires (blue) gave Sansa a (red) rose.

Sansa loves knights because GRRM loves knights. Remember that George’s Catholic high school (Marist) football team is called the Royal Knights:

Sansa loves pageantry because GRRM loves pageantry. Just look at his collection of knights and ladies figurines:

Sansa loves heraldry because GRRM loves heraldry. Take note that GRRM took inspiration from the antagonist of Ivanhoe, Brian de Bois-Guilbert’s sigil, to created House Corbray’s sigil:

Bois-Guilbert’s new shield bore a raven in full flight, holding in its claws a skull, and bearing the motto, Gare le Corbeau.

—IVANHOE: A Romance

The youngest man in the party had three ravens on his chest, each clutching a blood-red heart in its talons. His brown hair was shoulder length; one stray lock curled down across his forehead. Ser Lyn Corbray, Alayne thought, with a wary glance at his hard mouth and restless eyes.

—A Feast for Crows - Alayne I

(Not to mention that Sansa loves books because George loves books...)

There you have it, GRRM self inserts in a few of his ASOIAF characters, and Sansa Stark is one of them.

#Sansa Stark #GRRM #ASOIAF #Yes there is a House Corbray stained glass window in GRRM's office #George loves Brian de Bois Gilbert #Lyn Corbray is inspired in Bois Gilbert me thinks #Bois Gilbert kidnapped Rebecca...#:eyes emoji:#All tourneys in ASOIAF are inspired in Ivanhoe #I recommend you to read Ivanhoe #I recommend you to watch Ivanhoe movies too especially the Liz Taylor one #Radiant Liz Taylor played Rebecca

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liesandarbor · 7 years

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The Dark Side of the Moon Door

When we last left Alayne Stone in the Vale, we left her on … an almost surprising and positive note. It’s Day 0 of the Tourney she’s put together for the Lord of the Vale; noting that Sweetrobin takes solace in stories of the Winged Knight, Artys Arryn, Sansa concocts her very first “scheme” as a ‘player’ (a term I use loosely); surround the Lord of the Eyrie with his own bodyguard of “Winged Knights” to give him a sense of security. And what better a way to choose these Winged Knights than to make it a spectacle- invite every young, single knight in the Vale to compete for the positions.

Sixty-four knights will compete for a single spot out of eight (Robert felt he should have eight, more than Tommen Baratheon’s “seven”) by Robert Arryn’s side. These knights must be young, and if possible, single, because they’ll be working there for three years. ** Imagine leaving home to fight for a coddled, bratty pre-teen who can’t lay off the sweetsleep (let alone the teat)? Yikes.**

Alayne I in TWOW gives us one on one time with “main players” to watch over the next chapters. Alayne and Sansa chapters have been exceptional at soft introductions of characters in the background, pushing them to the front of the page by the next book. In TWOW, we’ve met several main Vale characters, and can use a few educated guesses to assume who may be competing in the tourney- I would expect to meet maybe a handful of newly named “small” characters in passing over Alayne’s TWOW arc- a 1:3 ratio of named vs. nameless characters competing in the tourney, if you will.

Alayne uses her charm to get one over on Harry-The-Arse and his ego, enchanting the young and pompous knight into being slightly less of a jerk and even engaging in a little bit of flirtatious banter- a 360 from the start, where Harry was only ever so slightly an a-hole to Alayne (especially in regards to her bastard status).

If we are to believe that Sansa will be heading to, towards, or be AT Winterfell by the end of TWOW, I imagine we’re going to have 1-5 Alayne Chapters to get there. I can see this going a few ways, but the rough outline, give or take a chapter would be:

Alayne I: Feast

Alayne II: Tourney Pt. 1

Alayne III: Tourney Pt. 2/Aftermath

Alayne IV: Big Climactic Moment (Wedding, Sweetrobin death, Sansa reveal, something??? Who knows.)

Alayne V: Leaving for Winterfell

What can be gleaned from the sample TWOW chapter that hasn’t been gleaned yet? Bryndenbfish (@warsofasoiaf on tumblr) had some interesting takes on the State of the Vale a while ago at this link. I’ll touch some similar topics he also spoke about (all of the guns just a waitin’ to go off in the vale, for starters), but the most interesting thoughts I have found in the Vale actually come via parallels to the historical Battle of the Seven Stars. I’m no Archmaester Arnel, but I feel like we have some fun stuff to dig through in the upcoming Vale arc. Shall we begin?

Battle of the Seven Stars

Of notable events that take place in ASOIAF History, the battle of the Seven Stars is definitely the premiere historical battle in the Vale. The BOTSS took place during the Andal Invasion of the Vale at the foot of the Giant’s Lance. The Andals prevailed over First Men, leaving House Arryn and their supporters to take the Vale. The Andals had initially conquered most of the Vale, and the native First Men often collaborated with the Andals, infighting against other FM kings. Once the Vale was under Andal control, the remaining houses joined together behind Robar II Royce against Artys Arryn and his Andals. Royce was slain in battle, and remaining FM houses bent the knee, swore fealty to House Arryn, or were exiled into the Mountains of the Moon, becoming the mountain clans (Black Ears, Burned Men, Stone Crows, Moon Brothers, etc).

So what did the cast look like for both sides of this battle? Let’s take a glance.

A casual glance at the lists may not say too much. But if you give it a second glance… the majority of the characters look a lot like the current state of the Vale.

Lysa was as lonely as she was. Her new husband seemed to spend more time at the foot of the mountain than he did atop it. He was gone now, had been gone the past four days, meeting with the Corbrays. From bits and pieces of overheard conversations Sansa knew that Jon Arryn’s bannermen resented Lysa’s marriage and begrudged Petyr his authority as Lord Protector of the Vale. The senior branch of House Royce was close to open revolt over her aunt’s failure to aid Robb in his war, and the Waynwoods, Redforts, Belmores, and Templetons were giving them every support. The mountain clans were being troublesome as well, and old Lord Hunter had died so suddenly that his two younger sons were accusing their elder brother of having murdered him. The Vale of Arryn might have been spared the worst of the war, but it was hardly the idyllic place that Lady Lysa had made it out to be.

Where does that currently leave us in narrative? Right now, Littlefinger leads the Vale in Robert Arryn’s name as Lord Protector. The Lords Declarant, led by Yohn Royce, still want to oust Petyr and instill their own as Protector of the Vale.

Bronze Yohn Royce will continue to be hostile, I fear, but so long as he stands alone he is not so much a threat

But Royce isn’t standing alone this time. Royce is backed by most of the Declarant (although Littlefinger is attempting to buy them off one by one; Lady Waynwood and Corbray, for starters) – Lord Gilwood Hunter, Lord Benedar Belmore, Lord Horton Redfort, and Ser Symond Templeton. The most notable of this support is that Hunter, Belmore and Redfort are First Men houses in the heart of it, and fought for the First Men in the BOTSS.

“Anya Waynwood? Truly?” The Lords Declarant were down from six to three, it would seem. The day he’d departed the mountain, Petyr Baelish had been confident of winning Symond Templeton to his side, but not so Lady Waynwood.

“For a start, you are the Lord Protector’s bastard, never forget. The Waynwoods are very old and very proud, but not as rich as one might think, as I discovered when I began buying up their debt. Not that Lady Anya would ever sell a son for gold. A ward, however … young Harry’s only a cousin, and the dower that I offered her ladyship was even larger than the one that Lyonel Corbray just collected. It had to be, for her to risk Bronze Yohn’s wroth. This will put all his plans awry.

So Baelish buys Waynwood out. With Templeton and Waynwood “won” to Baelish’s side, we can look at his support system as of Alayne I in TWOW: Lord Gerold Grafton, Lord Lyonel and Lyn Corbray, Ser Symond Templeton (inferred), and the support of House Arryn through Robert and Harry.

We open in on Alayne I in TWOW with both sides looking something like this:

**while not the Lord of the House, is a player in TWOW whose house supported the Declarants, so we’re going to include him for kicks.

The Brotherhood of the Winged Knights

Of the players in the Vale, we have a solid core of men competing for a spot in Sweetrobin’s throne room. Sixty-four competitors, and eight to take a place at Robert’s side. The rest is speculative fun, but boy, isn’t that the best part?

** First Men origins *Andal origins/support

With the lay of the battle in mind, who’s going to make it into the Winged Knights- hell, who’s going to make it out alive?

I propose the winners of the Tourney will be a mostly First Men line up, an inversion to the Battle of the Seven Stars, and surrounding Sweetrobin with Bronze Yohn Royce’s First Men; the first step to taking back the Vale. The Vale plot is compared to a chess match by Littlefinger quite often throughout the series, and through the tourney, Royce has his pieces ready to position directly around the “King.”

My Winged Knights draft (albeit I’m not 100% confident in it due to lack of information) looks something like this:

Mychel Redfort

Marwyn Belmore

Uther Shett

Ben Coldwater

Albar Royce

Ser Owen

Targon the Halfwild

New House Upcliff Member*

*this one I’m less sure on, as it’s a nameless member if they do show up, and feel as if George will be giving us a lineup of already known characters. But we shall wait and see!I would love it to be a member of House Upcliff to provide a mirror to the BOTSS.

From Fantasy to Horror

Sansa Stark’s story is filled with fantastical events of whimsy. Dancing lords and ladies, heaping feasts filled with delectable food, knights in shining, bedazzled armor, gallant and handsome steeds. One other common element that presents itself across Sansa’s pages? A splash of horror. The enchanting events Sansa looks forward to attending almost always end up in ruins- and often, in bloodshed. A date on the Trident with her betrothed, the Hand’s Tourney, her father’s “forgiveness” on the Sept of Baelor’s steps, Princess Myrcella’s departure, the Purple Wedding- I mean, we could go on for… five books, really. So let’s tack on a sixth. The Tourney at the Gates of the Moon is littered with guns, loaded and ready to go off.

Some of these are speculation, some textually based. To tell the truth, this tourney could go so many ways. I don’t think that EVERYTHING on this list will occur, however that they are plot strings hanging, waiting to be grasped or utilized that I’ve noticed/want to touch on.

Sweetrobin’s Sweetsleep

As they waited for the music to resume, Alayne glanced at the dais, where Lord Robert sat staring at them. Please, she prayed, don’t let him start to twitch and shake. Not here. Not now. Maester Coleman would have made certain that he drank a strong dose of sweetmilk before the feast, but even so.

Colemon lingered a moment before following. “My lord, this parley might best be left for another day. His lordship’s spells have grown worse since Lady Lysa’s death. More frequent and more violent. I bleed the child as often as I dare, and mix him dreamwine and milk of the poppy to help him sleep, but…

Sweetrobin is sickly and breaks into fits at an alarming and increasing rate. Anything could set his epilepsy and shaking off, and he’s about one good shake of sweetsleep in his milk away from kicking the bucket. Could the Tourney of the Winged Knights hold his death? Will Littlefinger lose hold of the Vale quicker than imagined?

Ser Shadrich

A popular fan theory that I’m sure I don’t need to unravel for you all is Ser Shadrich of the Shady Glen, the Mad Mouse (literally he’s from the SHADY Glen, if that doesn’t tip you off), is looking for Sansa Stark (and has stumbled upon her in the Vale), and could possibly make off with her during any of the sizeable events occurring during the tourney.

While textually the idea is there, I don’t foresee Sansa getting kidnapped- TWOW’s Sansalayne arc will hopefully be more of her making a lot of big choices on her own, and reupping on some agency for once. I do think this would be a great time for a failed attempt at kidnapping Sansa— and a great time for the Alayne/Sansa reveal to happen before Littlefinger’s plans take off, and before she’s to wed Harry.

Eustace and Harlan Hunter

He put down his quill. "Redfort and Waynwood are old. One or both of them may die. Gilwood Hunter will be murdered by his brothers. Most likely by young Harlan, who arranged Lord Eon’s death. In for a penny, in for a stag, I always say. Belmore is corrupt and can be bought. Templeton I shall befriend. Bronze Yohn Royce will continue to be hostile, I fear, but so long as he stands alone he is not so much a threat.”

Both Eustace and Harlan claim their oldest brother killed their Lord Father, but Littlefinger claims Harlan, the youngest brother, killed the father. Both Harlan and Eustace seem to be of a young enough age to compete in the Tourney of the Winged Knights, and I wouldn’t be surprised if there was some brother-on-brother crime happening between Harlan and Eustace. Besides, Littlefinger thinking that Lord Gilwood is next in line to die would be a nice touch- him being close, but missing the mark as Harlan offs Eustace “accidentally” in the tourney. It doesn’t bring Harlan up to Lordship, but it definitely brings him one step closer.

Tollett V Redfort

Torgold Tollett in the Battle of the Seven Stars slayed Lord Redfort and Ursula Upcliff, and was killed via King Robar II Royce slashing at his head with Lady Forlorn. Mychel Redfort killing Andrew Tollett in the Tourney “accidentally” (or whatever could transpire) would be quite a nice nod to the inversion of the BOTSS that I speak about above, and not entirely out of the question. (…and, if, by SOME magical force, Dolorous Edd survives the Long Night…. would give Edd a nice place to plop his butt down post war!)

Mountain Clans

Throughout the first 3 books, the Mountain Clans of the vale are highlighted. Armed by Tyrion, the clans continue to be a dangerous threat to the Vale- even Hyle Hunt is informed enough to tell Brienne about them.

The Freys are up here at the Twins, Darry and Harrenhal are south across the Trident, west he’s got the Blackwoods and the Brackens fighting, and Lord Randyll’s here at Maidenpool. The high road to the Vale is closed by snow, even if he could get past the mountain clans. Where’s a dog to go?” (AFFC, Brienne V)

George lays the Mountain Clans right in our face in a pretty important POV, but when you flip the page… the Mountain Clans are missing from all of Sansa’s Feast chapters. In fact, the last mention of the Mountain Clans in Sansa’s chapters were in a Storm of Swords, Sansa VII. – in a VERY telling paragraph that I’ve already quoted several times, though the relevant information here is:

The mountain clans were being troublesome as well, and old Lord Hunter had died so suddenly that his two younger sons were accusing their elder brother of having murdered him.

With the best fighters and warriors from the Gates of the Moon and across the Vale stationed at the Tourney, the defenses are down… and the mountain clans just so happen to be freshly armed through none other than Sansa’s husband himself, Tyrion Lannister. What a nice wedding gift! I expect to see some tumultuous passages if and when the clans decide to attack.

Lyn Corbray

The venom in his voice was so thick that for a moment she almost forgot that Lyn Corbray was actually her father’s catspaw, bought and paid for. Or was he? Perhaps, instead of being Petyr’s man pretending to be Petyr’s foe, he was actually his foe pretending to be his man pretending to be his foe.

Lyn Corbray, who likes gold and boys, seems to be Littlefinger’s catspaw and man…. But is he? We spend Alayne chapters seeing Baelish from her eyes, but not seeing his thoughts. Where his thoughts truly align, we don’t know, but Lyn Corbray did just get screwed out of Heart’s Home by Littlefinger… So where do his loyalties lie? What does Littlefinger want from him besides sowing discord throughout the Lords Declarant?

I could see Lyn offing Harry in the tourney, a theory that was first brought up by u/SKREEEEEEEE on Reddit if I recall correctly. This Sansa/Harry marriage? Totally not going to happen, guys. This marriage is a blue and red falconed and quartered herring if I ever saw one (literally, a blue and red falconed Herr-dyng) . Could Lyn bring Lady Forlorn out to play at the Tourney of the Winged Knights?

Furthering that thought, it is mentioned several times that Harry isn’t exactly the most skilled Knight:

“And is Ser Harrold with them?” Horrible Ser Harrold. “He is.” Lord Belmore laughed. “I never thought Royce would let him come. Is he blind, or merely stupid?” “He is honorable. Sometimes it amounts to the same thing. If he denied the lad the chance to prove himself, it could create a rift between them, so why not let him tilt? The boy is nowise skilled enough to win a place amongst the Winged Knights.”

And may your horse stumble, Harry the Heir, so you fall on your stupid head in your first tilt. She showed the Waynwoods a stone face as they blurted out awkward apologies for their companion. When they were done she turned and fled. Near the keep, she ran headlong into Ser Lothor Brune and almost knocked him off his feet. “Harry the Heir? Harry the Arse, I say. He’s just some upjumped squire.”

“Well, I’m not. He may think he’s some great knight, but Ser Lothor says he’s just some upjumped squire.” Petyr put his arm around her. “So he is, but he is Robert’s heir as well.

…..It sounds… as if it would be quite easy to beat Harry in a tilt….

I feel like Alayne II would be too soon for Harry to die in the story- I’d expect him to make it to their wedding, a-la some Harrenbowl style action to take place, but it also wouldn’t surprise me if he got taken out this soon. There’s bound to be some sort of Vale twist in store for us, and I wouldn’t put it past George.

Bonus: A Lady’s Favor

Before I give you some wrap-up ideas, when I originally set out to write this, the focus was going to be on two questions: who will be a Winged Knight for Sweetrobin, and who will Sansa give her favor to? Though those are no longer the main objectives of this work, I did want to touch a little on Sansa’s favor.

He was her first partner of the evening, but far from the last. Just as Petyr had promised, the young knights flocked around her, vying for her favor. After Ben came Andrew Tollett, handsome Ser Byron, red-nosed Ser Morgarth, and Ser Shadrich the Mad Mouse. Then Ser Albar Royce, Myranda’s stout dull brother and Lord Nestor’s heir. She danced with all three Sunderlands, none of whom had webs between their fingers, though she could not vouch for their toes. Uther Shett appeared to pay her slimy compliments as he trod upon her feet, but Ser Targon the Halfwild proved to be the soul of courtesy. After that Ser Roland Waynwood swept her up and made her laugh with mocking comments about half the other knights in the hall. His Uncle Wallace took a turn as well and tried to do the same, but the words would not come. Alayne finally took pity on him and began to chatter happily, to spare him the embarrassment. When the dance was done she excused herself, and went back to her place to have a drink of wine.

He has good teeth, she thought, straight and white. And when he smiles, he has the nicest dimples. She ran one finger down his cheek. "Should we ever wed, you’ll have to send Saffron back to her father. I’ll be all the spice you’ll want.” He grinned. “I will hold you to that promise, my lady. Until that day, may I wear your favor in the tourney?” “You may not. It is promised to…another.” She was not sure who as yet, but she knew she would find someone.

The romantic notion of a tourney and a fair young woman all the knights and valiant men are vying for is not something new to ASOIAF. The first passage recounting Sansa’s dance partners is almost a nice nod to a famous Storm of Swords passage.

The crannogman saw a maid with laughing purple eyes dance with a white sword, a red snake, and the lord of griffins, and lastly with the quiet wolf … but only after the wild wolf spoke to her on behalf of a brother too shy to leave his bench.

The similarities and differences between Sansa’s dancing and Ashara’s dancing: Sansa’s dance partners are named, where Ashara’s are not, but this story is more than likely going to end in tragedy, much like Ashara’s is thought to have.

Whoever wears Sansa’s favor is more than likely doomed, as Sansa chapters tend to go. Sansa regaining agency through Littlefinger’s laid plans is wonderful, but his plans are surely to go awry this whole entire book (they’ve been going just a little too smoothly- cough bastard daughter who looks exactly like Sansa Stark mutter). Additionally, Sansa’s first ‘scheme’ as a ‘player’ is surelygoing to bomb.

I personally have assumed Sansa would fail at her first challenge, but her first real success would be towards the end of TWOW, getting one over on Petyr somehow.

The Main Dance Partners

Ben Coldwater

Andrew Tollett

Ser Byron

Ser Morgarth

Ser Shadrich the Mouse

Albar Royce

3 Sunderlands

Uther Shett

Targon the Halfwild

Roland Waynwood

Wallace Raynwood

Harry Hardyng

So who’s my money on? I’m between two players. My bets are on Sansa choosing Ser Byron or Targon the Halfwild, with a strong leaning towards Ser Byron.

“Knights they are,” said Petyr. “Their gallantry has yet to be demonstrated, but we may hope. Allow me to present Ser Byron, Ser Morgarth, and Ser Shadrich. Sers, the Lady Alayne, my natural and very clever daughter … with whom I must needs confer, if you will be so good as to excuse us.” The three knights bowed and withdrew, though the tall one with the blond hair kissed her hand before taking his leave.

handsome Ser Byron

While Sansa’s soul is the very brevity of courtesy, and Targon the Halfwild seems to be just that:

Uther Shett appeared to pay her slimy compliments as he trod upon her feet, but Ser Targon the Halfwild proved to be the soul of courtesy.

Although our young she-wolf favors courtesy in her daily actions, she is more than likely going to choose the best looking guy to make Harry jealous… and Ser Byron sure is the handsome, floral, gallant type. While mentioned twice now in text, the hedge knight hasn’t been given a surname or backstory yet… which makes him a disposable character in the long run of the narrative.

Wrapping Up

If you made it this far, I’m impressed. High five yourself. This was long-winded but full of so much information and FUN TO WRITE… that I just couldn’t shorten it. Sansalayne’s arc in TWOW is going to be a wild ride, and whatever does end up happening… has me suffering in anticipation. I guess the biggest question of all of this formatted word vomit begs… what does it mean?

Rough outline? If there’s an inversion of the Battle of the Seven Stars and the First Men are put in a position ready to take the Vale back from the Andals, they’re going to need someone to rally behind. Initially, the rallying will appear behind Royce. But I think they’re going to need someone else to rally behind. Someone with the blood of the First Men running through their veins, someone who comes from a noble family that seems to accrue loyalty from houses not necessarily sworn to them easily, and someone who is courteous and learning to be a leader politically.

and when they come together for his wedding, and you come out with your long auburn hair, clad in a maiden’s cloak of white and grey with a direwolf emblazoned on the back … why, every knight in the Vale will pledge his sword to win you back your birthright.

The exact middle of how we get there is fuzzy- your answers are probably just as good as mine. Whether you believe in Harrenbowl via the hype-bringing writers on Reddit u/hollowaydivision u/big-man-rebornu/godmademedoit (which is an entirely other post in itself, and extremely convincing) or subscribe to the controversial Sansa-raped-by-Baelish-kills-Sweetrobin or Kills-Sweetrobin ideas mentioned by u/megatron_mclargehuge or u/Cygw1n, there are tons of amazing ideas and theories out there to fill in the blanks.

However you look at it, with the loaded guns in the Vale set to go off, Alayne is in a position to be revealed as Sansa Stark VERY soon- possibly lying to save Baelish (he “saved” me! I swear, Lord Royce! Please don’t pop his obnoxiously pointy chin out of its socket!), uniting the First Men and Andal parties that are left in the Vale, pushing her claim and birthright to go home to Winterfell – and hopefully, slay the savage giant in a castle made of snow. ;)

#asoiaf #sansa stark #asoiaf meta #asoiaf theories #asoiaf analysis #mine #sansa meta

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