#taako is a jewish mexican and he has brown skin

[tyrannoshirt-moved]

now no one in taz is white, not a single person. everyone is a poc now. sorry becky :)

[ka-star]

Thoughts and personal opinion on GN Taako’s design

Forewarning; this post is going to cover a topic that I had thought has died off a while ago, but I’ve come across a post that bring it back up again. I want to be clear; this is my own personal opinion on the issue and I am not saying I’m going to be right or wrong, but rather I’m going to go over what I found and show some examples of both sides to the augment. Anything I said should not be taken as truth but simply as my take on the topic and I only wish that anyone that reads this looks up the information themselves and comes to their own conclusion.

If there was one thing that kept coming up over and over again during the wait for the TAZ graphic novel, it would be the designs for the three main characters, or rather, it would be the design that was picked for Taako. Yes, I’m talking about the fact that he has blue (or at least bluish skin) in the book. The reason I’m bringing this up is due to a post I found while browsing the TAZ tag on here today. There are still some people that feel that the design choice is anti-Semitic, and that it’s something that still needs to be ‘fixed’.

I will start with this; I can see why some people might think this. I have heard of idea of Jews being depicted with blue skin and in a negative light. I’ve heard of this, but I’ve been having trouble finding a reliable source to it. I most I could find was a Reddit post about the same topic, with some links to Twitter from people that either supported it or were against it.

Click here for that post.

While I was looking through the posts and what people thought, I wanted to keep a few things in mind. One was which was the type of people this was bothering. Again, I can see why a Jewish person might feel uneasy about this, but as I read through I noticed how most of the people being on the side against it tended to be young, around 15 to 18, at least the ones that would have that information on their Twitter or Tumblr. Some were a little older, but most of the time it was around those ages. Another thing I noticed was the use of images of green witches (with pointy hats, noses, etc) as proof the argument, along with the original claim of ‘blue skin = anti-Semitic”.

Let me slow this down for a second, because there are other factors that are not being talked about here that I feel need to be brought up.

Rarely, if ever, do any of this post against this topic talk about the fact that Taako has been described as a High Elf (or just Elf in the GN), and if you were to google High Elves from Dungeons and Dragons you would see that they are normally shown to have ‘pointy’ features; nose, ears, chin, etc. Some don’t, but most of the artwork I’ve seen of them from D&D do.

Taako is a Wizard, and like many other fantasy characters in other fantasy stories, you will find wizards depicted with robes and pointed hats. It’s just a classic image that is not limited to just witches.

Okay, so what about skin color? That is where things get tricky, because much like the topic about whether Taako’s skin should be blue, there was an even hotter discussion about whether or not he should have been drawn with brown skin. I’m sure some of you will know what I’m talking about here, because it is still something a lot of fans will say they wish we got. Having Taako with brown colored skin played into the idea that he would then be seen as a Latino character, and that, much like the blue skin, caused some controversy.

The reasons for that was because of his name and because of some of his character traits. Taako’s name is, well, based on tacos, the Mexican food (which was picked as a joke from Justin long before the McElroys realized TAZ was going to take off, and he never intended any harm in it). The second point (and this is more troublesome), is the fact that Taako is known to loot money, either from dead bodies or trick it out of other characters. If he was depicted to look like a Latino character, some felt that would reflect badly on actual Latinos, at least that’s what I’ve read.

I really need to go back to the D&D element here and remind some people of something; when you play D&D, it would be stupid to NOT loot the dead bodies of enemies you kill, or not to trick someone out of some gold. Depending on the character you are playing, that may be part of their character, and there may be a good reason for it. I bring this up because I think a lot of the people that spoke out about this haven’t played D&D, or at the every least forget that is what the McElroys were doing.

So we have the final design for GN Taako with bluish skin, and we’re back to where I started with this post, only this time is focused on it being an anti-Semitic thing and nothing to do with Latinos. I also want to bring up, again, that most of the people I’ve found that were against this were around the ages of 15 to early 20s, and the possibility that these people may not even play D&D and not know about what High Elf features look like.

So, what is my take on all of this? I feel like the people saying that the look for GN Taako is anti-Semitic are not counting the other factors I just mentioned, or maybe they choose not to at all. I think they may be hyper focusing on one thing when in reality it’s simply a coincident, and they are over exaggerating something that I don’t think a lot of fans would have even thought of in the first place. It’s overblown, is what I’m saying. And frankly, the fact that a lot of these people are the ages I’ve mentioned tells me they’re letting their own emotions get the best of them, and not thinking more rationally on the why, and doing their own research and coming to their own conclusion. They’re looking for a reason to hate something when there very well may not be anything worth hating.

And if some of you reading this didn’t already know, yes, there are such things as blue skin elves in D&D.

In the end, it feels all like a gray area to me; if it does bother some people, okay. I get it; but don’t be the sort of person that focuses so much on just one facet that you lose the bigger picture. We have enough of that on the internet as it is.

[sapphicdalliances]

ok immm sorry but im gonna have a taz discourse moment. bear w/ me.

ive been trying to like keep a lid on it but like i havent seen anyone point out that the mcelroys aren’t the right people to tell a story starring a POC where their racial identity becomes an important part of their character. like straight up im gonna say it? taako shouldn’t be brown – not in the sense that it’s wrong to draw taako brown, but that the mcelroys don’t have the right to make that artistic decision or canonically make him latino. taako’s the player character of a white dude and was developed with no racial identity in mind at all. making him brown at this point would be thoughtless lip service, not meaningful representation – and making him latino in particular would actually be horrifically racist. stop demanding tokenism from the mcelroys and acting like that’s something all POC fans want, it’s honestly embarrassing to see by now.

the nature of TAZ is that the creative team is and always will be four white guys. they’re a nerdy family doing a nerd activity and recording it as a free internet radio show. their team cannot be expanded to include more diverse creators; that’s just not how this story is set up, and that’s okay. there is more than one story in the world – that’s the point of diversity. progressive storytelling happens when many people tell their own stories, not when one person tells the stories of many people. that second one is shallow at best and downright appropriative at worst. stop demanding the mcelroys do that second one, and go support some more diverse creators.

this isn’t a pessimistic “how can you expect better from white dudes they’ll always fail us” spiel, but “you should not ask white dude creators to tick every representation box because even if they succeed it will be an inauthentic and meaningless achievement”. and that doesn’t mean white men should only make stories about white men, and i’m very glad that griffin has put in an effort to make a diverse cast of NPCs, but this demand to change one of the leads into a specific ethnicity and cultural background won’t work because it has not been considered from the start and it’s not something that justin is ready, willing, or able to do.

there’s been a lot of back-and-forth about how Criticism Is Good and you have to help the mcelroys Do Better but tbh? there is nothing wrong with the taz graphic novel designs. there’s literally nothing wrong with them because the point is that they are one single individual interpretation drawn by one person – a queer woman, no less – and are not the official designs, and don’t actually matter. like even if you want to argue that any green skin is antisemitic (which is a poorly-sourced, self-referential knot of yarn to begin with), taako’s skin is blue. merle being brown while also not being a perfect person is not tokenism or racist because there’s a diverse cast of NPCs, many of whom have dark skin. everything beyond that is up to personal preference.

not all criticisms are created equal. not every criticism is valid or useful in every situation. at some point, you have to accept that taz is not your story and you cannot demand a certain type of representation from the creators just to make yourself happy, and you can’t act like all POC fans feel the same because we certainly do not. like, if taz does something and you’re upset by it, that’s okay, and your emotions matter, but you need to realise that they are not the only emotions that matter, and also it’s not the creators’ job to fix your emotions for you.

i am a big advocate for critiquing media you enjoy and as a creator myself i do seek to learn more and better myself but part of that is also filtering out entitled white noise, like the racist asses trying to convince us that taako is “coded” as mexican and jewish just because his name sounds like taco and he likes money. so, like, whatever, good luck to mcelroys and carey on this front, but part of creating is accepting that you’ll never please everybody so hopefully they’re okay.

(“reblog this post to make taako brown” is just “sign this petition to make sterek canon” all over again and it’s still garbage, guys, after all these years it’s still bad.)

p.s. can everyone stop acting like the only two races are white and black. super would appreciate that thanks.

[taxfrauddotcom]

I'd like to say something, as a queer Latinx woman, about that latest official post regarding the graphic novel. Here's my take on everything Griffin has written: Let me preface everything I'm about to say with this: I'm half white and light skinned, so if you're a dark skinned poc and anything I say is even remotely problematic, /please/ call it out. I'd also like to preface this post by saying that I'm absolutely aware that the brothers and Carey are coming from a genuinely well-intentioned place and that I'm very appreciative of their sensitivity and willingness to listen to their fans of color, which is why I'm even willing to write this out in the first place. So here goes. For one thing, it's absolutely important to have diversity on the page and in fictional works, but it's even more important to have diversity behind the scenes and in the writers room. Griffin talks about them all getting together and discussing how to make the graphic novel more diverse, and he talks about them taking into consideration the reactions of fans of color and the repercussions of various possible choices, but was there a person of color included in the discussion? He didn't mention that there was, and honestly given what he describes in the post, my instincts tell me that there wasn't I really love that Clint is writing the gn, and I really love Carey's art, but the fact of the matter is that they're both white, and a lot of what has happened with the gn could have been avoided if they'd had a person of color on the writing team. Or even if they'd hired a sensitivity reader. I don't know how finalized the first volume of the gn is, so i don't know how much they can change it, but I would hope that for upcoming volumes of the graphic novel, the team would learn from their mistakes and hire a poc consultant/writer/sensitivity reader. Hell, I'm willing to offer my help for free if it means preventing something like this from happening again. Which brings me to several of the points Griffin brings up in the post: 1. Latinx Taako possibly being seen as racist: as a Mexican woman, I understand Griffin's hesitation and fears, but I do think this is maybe a case of white overcaution. A better tactic to take would have been to ask Latinx content creators what they personally think of Latinx Taako. Because honestly, I would have appreciated brown Taako a lot, because yeah, his quest is finding the way to make tacos and yeah he steals a lot, but he's also nuanced and funny and clever and full of personality. And he's canonically gay! And as a queer Mexican, having a canonically gay Latinx as one of the three main characters would have meant a lot to me. 2. I can't speak on whether or not green/blue Taako is anti Semitic. For that I'd have to defer to Jewish members of the fandom. I've seen arguments for both sides from them, but I've also seen non Jewish people speak on behalf of the Jewish community, and I'm asking you, as a fellow non Jewish person, to please stop. 3. On the subject of green/blue Taako, here's what I /can/ say rubs me the wrong way about it. It looks like they took the original white design for Taako and changed his skin color. So even if his skin isn't white, he still honestly reads as white, and that... sucks. It feels like a cop out in a lot of way and that kind of hurts. 4. I think though, that what hurt me the most was Griffin's discussion as to why they didn't make Magnus brown. Griffin talks about not wanting to make the more "aggressive" of the boys brown, and I get that, but that's not who Magnus is at his core. Magnus is compassionate. He carves wooden ducks for his friends and for baby animals. He puts his life on the line to protect those who are less vulnerable than himself, and he has an incredibly strong sense of justice. In a lot of ways, Magnus reminds me of my father and many of the other men of color in my life. Having Magnus be a brown man would have added so much depth and weight to his arc as a folk hero and defender of the weak. Instead, we see this archetype as a white character /again/. He's just another white savior, another Braveheart type character, and honestly we don't need any more of these. We need to see men of color defending the weak, being gentle and kind and multi-faceted. And again, had a person of color been a part of the decision making process, I think they would have felt similarly and addressed Griffin's concerns. I'd also like to take a moment to address the things I've seen said by white content creators, many of whom I respect, about how the fandom is being "too har" on non cis het male content creators (i.e. Carey). Being a woman doesn't absolve you of white privilege. Nor does being a member of the LGBTQ community. If you see poc criticising a white content creator about race issues, you need to be willing to listen and learn, rather than accusing them of some kind of misogyny or favor towards white men. Because it's honestly not your place to tell people of color that they're being too dramatic or whatever. It's not a good look. I have so much more to say, but I also have places to be right now, so I'm going to leave it at that. I really love and appreciate TAZ, as much as I appreciate the brothers being willing to listen and to learn, but I do hope that in the future, Griffin would be willing to avoid these mistakes again by including poc and other members of marginalized groups in the decision making process. And I'd like to hope that white fans would take a page from the brothers' book rather than dismissing the concerns of fans of color. Thanks, y'all. Stay cool.

[egregiousmeme]

The reason we don't want a green or white taako is because we want representation, and we don't want anti-semitic characters. They Mcelroys want poc to speak up if they think they are doing something wrong. So they did and we are working for a better result. White and green taakos arent good because the character is coded otherwise and green is awfully horrible against what taako is coded as: jewish. And mexican.

(Sorry for the super late reply, I just needed to make sure I did my homework on this one, and I a few other things to attend to. But if you don’t believe me I implore you to do your research and tell me your findings. I would love to have an intellectual discussion on this matter! Thanks for the wait!)

Okay so I will say this: representation is important. It is very important.Undoubtedly so.

But there already is such great representation of poc with Lucretia,Kravitz, and Angus (as well as many others!) all being smart and intellectualpeople who are adored by nearly everyone in terms of popularity. It warms myheart to see this. So representation is there (at the very least more so thanother not so great places I’ve seen in other fandoms) and poc are not invisible.

People of color are people through and through and deserve their time toshine. Period.

I am all for supporting poc and I honestly like the sun taako design. I’vesaid it and you read it (I’m pretty sure). One reason I am held back by thewhole proposal is this quote in the mcelroy’s post talking about the problem:

“ Yesterday, we heard from folks who said it was problematic that we madeMerle brown, considering that he has a backstory where he was, more or less, adeadbeat dad. That’s a harsh boiling down of the character, but the criticismabsolutely has merit. We didn’t think of that when we decided on Merle’s newdesign. But it’s kind of exactly what I’m talking about here: If the Taako inthis graphic novel had dark skin, how many similar criticisms could be laid athis feet? If we gave Magnus dark skin, and then he spent the campaign being themore physical, more aggressive, less intellectual member of his team, there areissues there, too. Is any of that good representation? ”

I’m not sure if Taako is good representation. Because, despite hischarming attitude and character quirks, he’s not a great person moral-wise. Theway to fix this? Just promote the idea that Taako specifically will not bebutchered and shaped into a stereotypical thieving dark skinned dude. Get people to accept that those character traits are not because of his dark skin tone, but because of the character by itself. Because stuff like that happened to Merle (which I just flat-out don’t agree with at all, he’sthe very definition of a peacemaker and should not be boiled own to “blackdeadbeat dad” but, okay.) will also happen to Taako. I don’t want that to happen. I don’twant people to twist it even more to harm those that are trying to findrepresentation in characters they relate to. That’s just fucked, I think we can agree on that much.

While I do not prefer to have a white Taako for the non-canonical comic (more aesthetically than anything),I don’t hunt down people that draw him as such or put hastily slapped on labels for people who are just drawing something that they love. Just as I don’t hunt down people for any other design they desire to draw. That’s just pathetic to harass people like that. Let people draw him how they want to draw him, and if you don’t like it then you don’t have to reblog or spread it to others, it’s just that simple.

But let’s hop onto the far hotter topic of the green and blue skin colors, shall we?

Green skin is anti-semitic, right? Well not by itself, no.

Unlike some of the more prominent racial propaganda depicting races throughout history (such as yellow peril, blackface, and red skin, ect.), green skin was not a widely-known by many, and is not nearly as present in other anti-semitic racial caricature elements as black hair with a beard, hats with a rounded top and/or kippah caps, hooked noses, dark clothing, and are typically depicted in negative light. Here’s a quick google search. The green skin isn’t really found anywhere in these depictions, as they were mostly in black and white to be used in newspapers. The only photo I have found is this image for an anti-semitic nazi propaganda flim, which by the way, was originally in yellow. So the “green skin is anti-semitic” argument is weak at best, and completely unstable at worst when looking at that by itself.  In any case, I do not think the people that draw green Taako are racist, but rather they merely draw inspiration off of other artists that draw him with that skin tone, or draw upon the typical skin color to depict a witch, you know, cuz’ he’s a wizard (I got some more research if you want to argue the witch claim, just hit me up). Heck even some Jewish people like to draw Taako green, that’s when you know the whole thing is rocky.Finally, Taako was never said to be Jewish, not sure what episode you got that from, but if you know, again, please hit me up with the timestamp and everything.

Finally blue.

Blue is ehh. It’s not green, it has no racial connotations, and is a cannon DnD 5e skin tone forthe sub-race of the High Elf– The Moon Elf, just the same as people arguing for the Sun Elf, it has equal ground in that regard to cannon. But all Taako fan designs are cannon, as stated by the fucking guy who plays Taako soooo “cannon” DnD skin tones may mean nothing in the grander scheme of things. But I think blue specifically, wasn’t the point.

The point that the Mcelroys were trying to do by using a fantasy skin coloris the same thing they were doing for their podcast: Not tie Taako down to onerace. No group of people can claim to be a blue race and “have” Taako (just the idea of being possessive over him for racial reasons is a weird just typing it out). Anyway, no one “gets” him. But they didn’t do too great of a job since it stillseemed to be tied too closely to lighter skinned people with the brightness of the blue hue and the fact that the Moon elf is typically depicted as “pale or fair-skinned.” Ruh roh. Okay idea, not great execution.

Personally? I’d change around with the blue hues to make them darker and make up a new sub-race so it isn’t closely related to “white” and is more on the middle of the spectrum. Or just make him Mexican and everyone will have to deal with it. //Shrug

But I guess that it matters very little when you consider people that are protesting for a change in the skin tone actually may be too late. It is conceivable that it is too late in the development process to change the designs. For all we know they have already printed out hundreds of pages when they posted the previews of the new designs. We just don’t know. I certainly hope not, but I can accept it with a grain of salt. I’m not sure others can swallow such a big pill though.

The whole fandom (white and poc both) are trying to come to terms with this situation that we’ve been given. We are all trying to discuss it and see what we can improve upon so there is a better and more diverse representation without harming the ones we are trying to support.

But Justin Mcelroy said that all Taakos are equal, and I am merely following the wishes of a guy that doesn’t want people to bully each other over drawing something they love. Sue me.

[32345454577]

@grungepit the entire apology (roughly ~13 paragraphs) is on @theadventurezone tumblr page, which is run by Griffin. This is gonna be long, so strap in lol. Also, I am unable to link anything because I am on mobile. I do, however, have many posts from POC and Jewish people under my personal tag "mcelboys." I understand though if you don't want to take the time to go thru it as it also has regular joke posts littered in. It's a catch-all, my apologies. People of color and Jewish fans (and the white fans who back them), are upset because of how flip-floppy the brothers have been. The brothers claim that there are no "canon" designs for the characters of TAZ, but continuously back white designs. In the comic pages shown, the "official" comic (drawn by the artists that Carey Fangbattle is named after (who draws ALL of the characters white)), the first designs of the trio were all white. Then, in the new designs shown, Magnus is white, Taako is a weird mix of pale blue-turquoise green (and many Mexican fans have wanted him to be a Mexican skin tone), and Merle (known as a dead-beat dad) is (light) brown/black. The brothers have continuously told fans that they are listening, but fans who want change have not seen any viable "proof" that things are changing. Lucretia is the only actual "canon" character who is black/POC, Lup (a trans woman, some fans are upset that that fact is only mentioned once. I'm not sure why it's necessary why it be mentioned more than that one time though?) is basically "forced" into a relationship with a joke character (who is meant to canonically look like 50 year old Tom Arnold), and Taako has been made green. Now, Taako being green is an issue in-and-of itself. His "quest" (a joke at first, like his name. The reason is addressed in the apology) is to invent the taco. He is also meant to be a Sun Elf (I believe? Also an order of the High Elves), who have dark skin. Mexican (and non- alike) fans want Taako to be Mexican. Though at this point, I'm sure people would be over the moon if the brothers just said Taako did *not* have white skin. It's also about representation. Griffin addresses in his apology on the official TAZ blog that the brothers did not want Taako to be seen as a "stereotype" because in about the first ~30 episodes Taako lies and steals a majority of the time. On green Taako: it's about antisemitism and just the fact that people who originally drew Taako white can now say "well at least he isn't white!" which is a huge cop-out. The antisemitism: there is no legitimate, scholarly written "proof" that green skin=antisemitism. But, many Jewish people have voiced their displeasure on the fact that it's often paired with big noses and evil characters. Green skin also first appeared on the Wizard of Oz with the witch. She was evil and bad. Also cunning and wily. The latter are very often seen as Jewish traits with antisemites. Paired with a long nose and several, several Jewish phrases, Taako doesn't look so great now. People are also upset that Justin recently quoted Coco Chanel (a Nazi supporter) in the most recent episode. I don't fault Justin for quoting Chanel at all, because if it wasn't for tumblr I wound *not* have even known Chanel supported the Nazis. Like, at all. So I'm giving him buffer on that. Another recent debacle happened with Travis over twitter. People were telling him things about Lin Manuel-Miranda and Hamilton (God that's also a *whole* other can of worms because of slave-owning glorification. But, I digress. Also I've never seen Hamilton and quite frankly, I don't care for it or LMM). When non-white fans were upset & tried to educate Travis, he would end up blocking them. Now, I know some people can be very aggressive when they are upset, but that isn't the point. Its also not the point that Travis might have been a bit overwhelmed. It's the fact that Travis was silencing upset fans and not listening. The brothers are still very good friends with LMM (and who cares? That's their thing), but who's to know how LMM feels or if the brothers have told him about how people feel about Hamilton? LMM is also a very busy man too, so I'm not saying it's easy to talk to him, either. To say in short, we expected too much from a demographic (cisgendered, heterosexual, white, men) that has continuously let down anyone who is different. People/fans have also been sort of "baby-ing" the brothers with words of "oh no no no, don't worry, you're doing your best!" or, "people will always be upset with what you do! Fuck 'em!" Which isn't good. The brothers are adults and should be able to take criticism. Also, you should listen when a huge majority of people are upset. They aren't "sensitive snowflakes" or what-have you. They're people who deserve respect. I think I'm missing some things? But my head hurts. Also I've typed a lot & words get jumbled in my head and thoughts get lost easily. So my apologies again if I've missed anything that doesn't answer your question.