#thebiggestfanoffans

[yessoupy]

I got tagged in kind of a long post that basically hits every single misconception about antis and how we view larries, so I decided to address it. Now, it’s like 35 paragraphs long, so instead of reblogging and addressing, I’m going to quote paragraphs and respond to them in a few separate posts. So it’s about to get lit here. Some of it might feel a bit repetitive, but apparently we could do with about a hundred more iterations of “okay so here’s the difference between shipping and tinhatting” so count this as like, three more of that quota.

here’s @thebiggestfanoffans:

Hi. I’m making this post because in one of your posts you say “Read some anti blogs for a few weeks, just observe, and you MIGHT understand where we’re coming from” (and because I don’t think you’d acknowledge me if I DMed you, seeing you probably get a lot of messages/asks). And I did. For years and years, before you came here, not only anti-larrie but my other fandoms anti-shippers’ blogs. And I have a few observations. (This turned out fucking long, sorry about that.)

First of all, I have fewer than 100 followers and the only reason you know about my blog is because larries found a post of mine and spread it around and sent me harassing messages. Just to get that out of the way.

“Other anti-shippers’ blogs”?

I’m not anti-shipping. Here’s a list of all my ships that are not 1d-related: zito/crosby, zito/harden, harden/crosby, harden/street, zito/lincecum, lincecum/c.j. wilson, chavez/munson, marisnick/mccullers, lochte/phelps, adrian/ervin, poe dameron/resistance soldier ..... that last one is the only one that isn’t rpf. I don’t know what other fandoms you belong to, but in my main rpf fandoms (swimslash/olympics slash and baseball slash), the vast majority of people who read and write fic understand implicitly that the people they write about are not actually in relationships. That proposition is viewed as absurd. NOT because, as a larrie might say, we’re homophobic. No. but because barry zito is married with a child (now), and prior to that he’d had girlfriends. Because rich harden married a woman years back. Because eric chavez was married twice and has a few (idk how many these days) kids of his own. Lochte is engaged with a baby on the way, phelps is married with a child, anthony ervin has a long-time girlfriend and so does nathan adrian. I even have realistic expectations of my FICTIONAL ship -- poe/resistance soldier exists in TFA for approximately 2 seconds. Do I hang my hopes that my ship will become canon in TLJ? Absolutely not. I’m not anti-shipping in any capacity.

First off, please keep in mind, that this is not an attack agianst you or antis or larries. this is a person sharing their opinion and wanting to hear another person’s opinion on the matter with the same thoughtfulness. Also, about the theories mentioned here, I think this is beyond discusssed, and I think I got a hang of what both sides has as a proof and what they think of the matter, since, as I said, I’ve read through some stuff in the past already. My focus is trying to be on the fandom vs. fandom stuff, I know some things I ask and/or mention are on the matter of the theories. I did not cover everything I find in error on both sides, but I don’t think those are on the topic I’d like to discuss here, if you’re interested in my other opinion, I’m more than willing chatting about it in the future.

“What both sides has as a proof and what they think of the matter”

I’m gonna stop you right there. Conspiracy theorists ignore the proof that their ship isn’t real. They don’t have proofs at all. They have straight-up inventions. They invent explanations for why they don’t see Harry and Louis doing what they want them to do, and what they expect them to do based on past fictional inventions. Equating conspiracy theorist “proofs” with the words out of Louis Tomlinson’s mouth is lending credence to conspiracy theorism. That kind of bullshit should be dismissed out of hand. Larries have no proof of anything. They have wishes that they have hardened into an alternate reality.

Just a quick note at the beginning: I’m big for "both sides of the coin” (since I’m reading both anti and larrie stuff, I think you guessed that much) and looking at things objectively. I’m an artist, I know that something may look amazing up close, but that doesn’t mean it looks good from far away, so whenever I form an opinion I always make sure to step back and look at the whole, to see if it all makes sense, always make sure to look at it from a neutral point of view. 

So, here I stand, ever since I joined the fandom I’ve been making sure to read some anti stuff, see where you’re coming from, and what I see is:

I’ve read both anti and larrie blogs. At first, I was amused by the larries. A year ago, when I got into fandom, I thought they were just fucking around. That buzzfeed article was ridiculous -- the woman who wrote it must have misunderstood and thought these people ACTUALLY believed it! But as I read more and more, it became less funny. No, these larries actually believed this shit. Not only that, it wasn’t just a few extremists that the rest of fandom reviled. No, among the content creators, the larries were the majority. Whenever a larrie contacts me to convert me, they send me all their “evidence” like I haven’t seen every single piece of it. Like I didn’t start my time in fandom with a larrie showing me all of this shit. I know what larries believe, just as well as you do. And I do not give them equal weight in my objective view. Objectively, larries are conspiracy theorists. This isn’t based on my stance as an anti: describe what’s happening to anyone outside of fandom and they will say, “oh, that’s like the people who think Obama’s birth certificate isn’t real.” It’s the same mentality.

On the Larrie side we have some nasty, nasty crap on our hands, starting with the time Eleanor came into the picture and they started saying that there are three twins, whatever - and it got especially messy and disgusting when they broke up and Briana came into the picture; the claim that they use a doll drove me away from the fandom the most, but my personal affairs are irrelevant atm.

No i think it’s 100% relevant what you personally believe. Good that you recognize the nasty crap: can you see that it’s rooted in the conspiracy theorism? The belief in a massive coverup to explain why H and L don’t interact the way you want and expect?

Another thing that I find sketchy is that if, IF their contract would last so long, I doubt any unwillingly closeted person would have gone through so much bullshit just for a legal issue. I’m a closeted person and if I would have to do anything against my liking just because its written on a paper, I’d find a freaking good lawyer and sue the moment they force me to pretend, especially if it would last for YEARS.

Because if I WAS willingly closeted, MAYBE I’d go through it, but this narrative hurts larries feelings, so its a no-no topic. But even willingly closseted I would sue the fuck out of the management if someone would say to fake having a baby. Especially seeing Louis’ age, its more likely that he’s thinking of his future a lot lately, do you think someone in their late twenties, even if living the popstar life, would want to publically own a child, a lifelong commitment just because he has a contract?

Uh, yeah. There ISN’T a contract closeting them. It’s a waste of time to argue “what if” because IT DOESN’T EXIST.

tbc here

[yessoupy]

whoever @thebiggestfanoffans was, after I took the time to respond to their 35-paragraph essay about why antis should leave larries alone (that was, as my latin prof would have said, the general thrust of their long-winded piece of writing), deleted that account (a side one) without even a message. I mean, who's surprised? it's possible thought that I've blocked whoever it was since I've gone through the likes and reblogs on the list and blocked every larrie I see. neutral account my ass.

[yessoupy]

con’t from here

@thebiggestfanoffans

My question is: How far does your definition of shipping and CT go? As much as I’ve seen from your blog, who doesn’t believe they’re together, but still um. like the idea? I guess? of them being together is a “shipper”, but as soon as someone says “oh they’re tots fucking” is conspiracy.

Is someone who thinks they’re together, or there are/were feelings involved, BUT respect their other relationships a CT? Is someone who comments on their posts with “LARRY” a CT? A shipper? (or just someone with no respect whatsoever and tendency of harrassment, but thats besside the point) Is someone who thinks they are/would be cute/haven’t decided yet if they’re together, but don’t share MANY of the things most Larries think is a CT? I’d like to read more of your definition about these things.

A conspiracy theorist is someone who doesn’t believe the words out of Harry and Louis’s mouths. Yeah. As soon as you take that idea and say “it’s real” THAT’S what makes you a conspiracy theorist. It’s super easy to understand. I don’t know why this is such an opaque concept for larries to understand.

If they think Harry and Louis, who have denied larry, lied about that, they’re a conspiracy theorist. In what world would someone who ISN’T a conspiracy theorist be commenting “larry” on their SM posts?? Have you ever found one who does that who ISN’T a CT?? Not unless they’re just trolls, and fuck trolls, too. 

“Haven’t decided yet if they’re together”? Yeah, someone who thinks that’s something they can DECIDE is a conspiracy theorist. They’ve said they aren’t. The end!

I know many things you’ve discussed on your blog before, I am well aware, but it is hard to take anything really seriously when you answer majority of your asks and put at the end many of them that “fuck larries/larries are CTs”. As you can see, I tried to be as respectful and indepth about my pov, I don’t expect you to answer, but if you do, I’d like to see your equally level-headed and considerate answer.

And again: This is not an attack agianst you or antis or larries. this is a person sharing their opinion and wanting to hear another person’s opinion on the matter equally civil.

Again, this is where it’s clear that you haven’t read much of my blog over these months I’ve been posting to it. I had maybe 5 asks before Sunday. I think four of them were from people who, because they lack reading comprehension skills, accused me of being a Trump supporter. The rest of those asks, the ones to which I responded “fuck larries,” came to my inbox in a flood as I was getting notification after notification and seeing that larries were reblogging and commenting on my list. The fuck would you expect? I was being compared to Hitler. You think you’d be all, “okay let’s talk this out”?? Fuck that. Judge me all you want but I don’t give a shit how you think I SHOULD have reacted to the larries in my inbox nastying it up. And you know what? I didn’t post the worst of them. 

Not an attack against antis? Yeah, that’s surely NOT what it felt like, when you spent paragraphs telling me that the way antis are standing up to disgusting behavior wasn’t appropriate, where you said that I shouldn’t respond to abusive messages with a visceral reaction that shows how I truly feel? In that moment, what should I have felt? A desire to reason with them? When my past experience indicates that’s a waste of time? So yeah. I’ll react in that moment in the way that feels most emotionally satisfying. It wasn’t a front. Fuck larries. Fuck conspiracy theorists who value the idea of their ship more than they respect a man who’s shown them more of himself than he ever had to. Who’s been so open with them for so many years. Fuck them. Louis has straight up said that he doesn’t consider anyone who believes in that conspiracy theory a real fan. Larries are their own fandom, a harmful, damaging fandom that should wither off the vine.

Y’all know better, at this point. And you’re choosing this behavior knowing that it’s wrong. I was nice, before. I no longer feel the need to pretend. And if I lose followers? So what. I don’t want followers who disrespect Louis, just like he doesn’t want fans who believe in conspiracy theories.

PS: Sorry for my English, I hope it mostly makes sense to you.

Thank you.

I work with English Language Learners on a daily basis so I can make sense of most attempts at English.  Your English was excellent, I would rate it Advanced High (that is equivalent to a native speaker).

You’re welcome.

Now, if you have any additional thoughts, please message me. I’m not doing this again.

The end.

[yessoupy]

con’t from here

@thebiggestfanoffans

And one more thing, this is more of a personal note. Yes, I understand that here we talk about passion; that when the topic is something you love/believe in you defend it with all your might, but what I have seen from some antis (and if it’s not about you, don’t take this personally, I’m talking about those I’ve seen this from), are not going to reason with you. If you say “hey, I’m a larrie, could you please tell me why you don’t think larry is real” the most common answer is (again, WHAT I HAVE SEEN) not “yes of course, take a seat, here is my opinion” but that “LARRY IS NOT REAL OPEN YOUR EYES OMG I CAN’T EVEN”. Ofc, it’s a very extreme example, but most of the times the responses hold an agressive and overly defensive tone.

Oh yeah, it’s a very simple question to answer, isn’t it. Let me walk you through how that conversation goes every single time:

Larrie: why don’t you think larry is real?

Anti: because both louis and harry denied it. [this, by the way, should be the END OF THE CONVERSATION.]

Larrie: but that was management.

Anti: no, it wasn’t.

Larrie: but what about their tattoos?

Anti: *shrug* so they have tattoos.

Larrie: but louis has an open triangle on his ankle, that’s a gay symbol

Anti: an open triangle could mean many different things, you can’t say you know what someone else’s tattoo means.

Larrie: but the anchor and the rope!

Anti: ... are very common tattoo motifs

Larrie: but louis got the dagger!

Anti: daggers and roses don’t actually go together.

Larrie: but -----

And on and on and on and on until the larrie says the anti is just blind and only listens to the media portrayal of Louis and Harry and we must think louis is a horrible father and we must be hasty hets who just want harry’s dick. Have that conversation once, it’s draining. Have it twice, thrice, ten times? Can you see why we don’t want to have the conversation anymore? It serves NO purpose except for the little larrie to run back to their friends and say they bested an anti in critical thinking. I had no intention to come out as bi on my tumblr, none at all, but holy shit it was hurtful to be called a nasty het over and over again, to my face and in subtweets.

Don’t tell me how I should deal with people. I’ve done it your way already. You didn’t see it -- doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. It was ineffective and frustrating and demoralizing. I was doing it this way prior to the November presidential election. I thought, man! If I can figure out how to turn these larries away from conspiracy theorism, maybe I have a shot at all of the conspiracy theorists who support Donald Trump. Maybe I can figure out what the key to it is. What a joke. It can’t be done. There is no key to changing them. Why have the conversation at all? If a larrie REALLY wants to know why antis believe what they believe, they could do two things:

Listen to their fave and believe their fave

Read @lrambling. I send every larrie now who asks me that question in messages to lrambling.

But do larries do that? No. They send anons to stir up shit.

If you’re going to deal with people, be respectful and level headed. I understand that tumbblrdotcom is not the grocery store or the costumer service of a bank, but I can only hope that you don’t have such a temper anywhere else. If something upsets you, don’t go on raging about it, but take a deep breath and try to consider that other people have opinions too (and YES this goes to larries as well!!), and treat them as humans, not as filth on the bottom of your shoe.

I’d like you to consider that maybe larries are not all the nasty shits you see, but many of us have different opinions and believes than what you generally see by the “big” larries and their agenda. While you say “#NotAllLarries, what a bullshit”, you don’t see beyond those larries that created a stigma on us, and you put us all in the same category of being CTs.

Okay, so in one of your posts you talk about how harmful CTs are, so, just a little note on the topic. Are larries completely responsible for the act of others? I mean, yes, of course, they do say things and clearly have power over some things, but if you read in the paper an ad that idk, tea could kill you, are you going to believe it right off the bat, or are you going to do your research to know?

I’m the kind of person who researches absolutely everything that I don’t find reasonable, but are they responsible for those who don’t? Are they responsible for the act of others they have no power over, or are those responsible for their own actions by not taking their time to do research and decide whenever they believe it or not. If someone creates a blog about their love for tea, they don’t expect people to go around and shout from the top of their lungs how great tea is, because they’ve read it on a blog. They expect people to decide whether they want to drink tea or not, and if they do, and if they love it, then join the conservation about how great tea is. 

This is an old time arguement, and I’d like to know your thoughts on whenever people with an amount of followers are responsible for those who act out whithout thinking because they heard and OPINION (I highlight that, because if someone makes a post/tells them that “hey lets go and hate on people who drink coffee”, thats manipulation. And yes, I’m aware of my earlier point, how some larries make propaganda against Simon, James, etc, but it’s a big difference that they don’t promote “believe in Larry or you’re a piece of shit”, as far as I’m aware. Again, link me if you have proof otherwise).

What research does someone have to do to know that larry isn’t real? Literally all they have to do is listen to Louis and Harry. But what do larries do? They explain away those things, say it’s not real. They prevent content from reaching their followers that makes it harder to explain away those things. After Jay passed away instead of sitting back and saying “oh my god, THAT’S why Louis looked sad in all of those selfies, why he looked gaunt” they spun her illness and untimely death into MORE of the conspiracy theory! Simon or whoever the bad guy is is even MORE of a monster! THAT’S NOT NORMAL. That’s not using critical thinking skills. I don’t know what your fucking point is comparing tea to someone’s life. You don’t get to make up your mind about whether or not Louis is in a relationship with Harry. They’ve both said they aren’t. THAT’S IT. You don’t have to LIKE it, but that’s reality.

And let’s see, should a larrie who says “don’t harass his family” and then creates a conspiracy about how anything anti-larry on their social media accounts is clearly created by management, who we hate because they’re forcibly closeting louis and he WANTS TO BE OUT, HE SENDS US SIGNS, is that person responsible for a larrie leaving a nasty message on Jay’s twitter? Yes. They created the narrative that it’s not really JAY they’re harassing, it’s management, and if Jay is reading the message she KNOWS it’s just a larrie trying to protect her son. Jay would be okay with it. That’s what larries think.

You don’t get to have an opinion about someone else’s sexuality.

You don’t get to have an opinion about whether or not someone is a parent.

If someone says, “I’m straight,” you don’t get to second-guess that. Who else could possibly know? You would know better than Louis? If someone says, “this is my son and I love him,” you don’t get to have an opinion about the very concept of his fatherhood.

Are larries a persecuted religious group? They seem to think they are. “It’s just our BELIEF” they’ll whine and cry, and say us antis are treating them like Hitler treated the Jews. You know what? That belief is wrong and damaging. I’m sure you can imagine some other beliefs that are wrong and damaging and should be spoken out against, or do you think we should have let Milo speak at Berkeley, where he was going to doxx illegal immigrants? Should the antifa protestor NOT have punched Richard Spencer in the face while he was spouting his Nazi bullshit? Nazis advocate for genocide. THAT IS WRONG. But it’s just their belief right? He should be able to say it. Fuck that. 

I am NOT saying that larrie beliefs are equal in magnitude to Nazi beliefs. I am only showing that “it’s just my belief” is NOT a reason to avoid being called out for bad behavior. [Any anon sent to me on this subject is catching a block. Don’t bother.]

tbc here

[yessoupy]

con’t from here

@thebiggestfanoffans

Hold on, this is a long chunk, and I think the meat of the issue:

So, my thoughts on that, other than many anti blogs speak utterly disrespectful about larries, what I find is that the most common anti blogs are the second kind, those who both blog about 1d and acttively talk about larries.

And my perspective about this is, for a new 1D fan, they gonna start with neutral blogs, which we have on both sides, then they stumble upon a post about larry, which seems cute enough, then another post by an anti, talking about larries in the manner some antis do, aka disresspectful and vile. And yes, I know this is just one scenario, but however I look at it, at one side I see people shittalking people whitin the fandom, and then people who shittalk on people who they have no contact to, alas there’s no way knowing if they are in fact as bad as the fandom says they are. From my point of view, I’d be more interested in those people who are relevant to my fave (see: Eleanor, Briana, etc.), and how they might be bad for my fave, than those who shittalk and possibly hurting people who are in the fandom.

And yes, I know that those who are linked to the boys get the same, if not more amount of hate these larries get, but look at it like this: you blog about something, vs. you publically link your name to a famous person, who have millions of fans who most likely going to drag you. As I see it, people who are linked to the boys, in a way (not in Briana’s, I guess? idk, I think I read somewhere that she didn’t know who L was? anyways, even then, the moment she was papped she probably realized, and even tho the pregnancy wasn’t planned, she did mention Louis then, and at that moment, in a way she agreed to have her name linked to, knowingly, a public figure, no judging, just a fact) knew what they got into, and anyone with common sense can predict to get hate by the public person’s fans, while someone who just created a blog on tumblrdotcom, wouldn’t expect to get that kind of attention (if they previously haven’t heard about the website).

And here, we could argue about what those people done to prevent or stop that, but the bottom line is, in my point of view, people on tumblr are not getting hate for reasons and expectedly, but because they blog about something other people don’t like (for a moment lets forget about CTs and cult-like mindsets).

I whole-heartedly disagree with your assertion that new fans would start on a neutral blog. All people I’ve talked to who came to 1D recently say, uniformly, that they found the larries first. They produce the most content. And they think it’s “not that deep” right, until they realize it is. And that view has been normalized in this fandom, so that’s what’s going to happen unless we change.

BRIANA AND ELEANOR are certainly relevant to your fave, if your fave is Louis, and the fact that you phrased this “... and how they might be bad for my fave” tells me everything I need to know about where you actually stand. What Briana and Eleanor are to your fave is none of your business. Louis has made choices. You might not agree with them, but they are his choices. And if you think they were bad choices, it is not your place to blame the woman he chose for being involved with him. If you must blame someone (and spoiler alert: you don’t), let it be Louis. Unstan if he’s making choices you don’t agree with and it upsets you enough that you have to read blogs about how they’re horrible women who are closeting him against his will.

This is straight-up victim-blaming. Just because Eleanor is dating Louis does not mean that she should expect harassment from anyone. She deserves none. All harassment of her is unacceptable. And me and other antis calling out larries for harassing her? And for creating an environment where that is okay? You say that is undeserved because they’re just fans? They’re people engaging in harmful behavior. There is nothing inherently harmful about Eleanor dating Louis unless you think there’s something sinister going on. Everyone, no matter who they are, should expect to be called out for their bad behavior. 

If a student in my class is saying “that’s gay!” as a pejorative, she should expect to be called out -- and will be! -- and it will be explained to her why that’s not okay to say. And when she does it again? If she hasn’t learned her lesson and it wasn’t a slip of the tongue and a habit she’s in the process of breaking? That’s a write-up, because she knows now, and is using slurs in the classroom. You ever been in a public place and heard someone saying nasty, harassing things? I’d guess you’d just keep on walking, huh? Doesn’t matter to you, doesn’t impact you. But if I’m there and it’s persistent and it’s making me uncomfortable, I’ll speak up. I do this all the time.

And you know what the people sitting around me say when I finally turn around to tell the heckler to shut up? They say thank you. Not a SINGLE time this has happened have the people around me said I should have minded my own business. I spoke up when they wouldn’t. Was the experience fun? Fuck no. Was it something that needed to happen? Yes. And maybe if there were more people who would speak up and call out the bad behavior instead of sweeping it under the rug and excusing it, we’d have a better fandom.

And I’m not saying any side handles the situation good, I think what some antis are doing is not okay, by my moral standards, I’m not saying that what some larries are doing is okay either. What I’m saying is that the difference between antis and larries is that larries’ focus is on something a fandom’s focus usually is, on their faves and their lives, hence what they’re saying about them. But the antis focus, nowadays, and I’m not saying all antis, but many of them, is on people whitin the fandom, which, in my experience is not normal fandom behavior. (Here I mean general fandom traits, nothing about shipping or anything, simply the basics of a fandom.)

Plus, and its mainly my personal opinion, to me, antis have  created an unfriendly, agressive community, and that is why I will never consider being an anti. Yes, Larries can be just as vile and I don’t want my name associated with many of them, but if I look at the general image, I’d rather stick to the side that has its focus on the right matter.

To be honest, I’m not so concerned about what your moral standards are. You seem to be more concerned about shushing anyone who’s speaking out against harassment and abuse and less concerned about solving the actual problem. You want to smooth things over -- just leave everyone be, right? It’s not so bad if the conspiracy theorists just stick to themselves! But they don’t. THAT’S reality.

And fandom’s focus is not normally on the personal lives of the pop idols. That’s straight up not normal. Do I know Apolo Ohno’s background? Yes, because during the Olympics in 02, 06, and 10 they did fluff pieces on him. But that’s all I know. I don’t speculate about who he’s dating, or who his godson belongs to, or any of that. It’s not normal behavior.

And so, because there are legions of people engaging in abnormal fandom behavior, you’re going to see something new arise to face that: antis. You know why they don’t exist in 99.9% of fandoms? 

BECAUSE THERE AREN’T PEOPLE IN THOSE FANDOMS WHO ENGAGE IN CONSPIRACY THEORISM REGARDING THE PEOPLE IN THEIR SHIP! 

How can you miss that?? Antis would not exist if larries did not exist! Antis would not exist if larries did not harass the people in the boys’ lives! There are people in swimslash now that after being exposed to larrie behavior they think Ryan Lochte and Michael Phelps are actually involved in a romantic and sexual relationship. Oh man do I wish I had one of them next to me at a swim meet so we could talk face to face about how fucked up that is.

Antis created this unfriendly, aggressive community? No. Larries did. Get it fucking straight. Don’t front - you never considered being an anti because you see nothing wrong with being a conspiracy theorist. You see nothing wrong with picking apart the life of your fave and blaming everyone around him for the decisions he makes that either you don’t like or that don’t fit with what you believe he should be doing. Because you know what it takes to speak out against a group of bullies who can descend on your blog in the hundreds and send you dozens of nasty messages once they find you? It takes a certain amount of guts. It makes YOU feel bad to read my responses to larries comparing me to Hitler? YOU feel bad reading me saying “fuck larries”? Why don’t you think for a minute about how I must have felt being compared to Hitler for making a list so that me and my friends could more easily simply avoid content and creators we didn’t want to support.

tbc here

[yessoupy]

con’t from here

@thebiggestfanoffans is not yet done!

Then there are the blogs like yours, the pro-antis, who only/overwhelmingly dedicate their blogs to larries and what’s wrong with them. Now, I absolutely see why these blogs get so much hate, and yes, I do realize most of them come from larries, and I’m ashamed that I have to share the same platform as those nasty, hateful anons, but again, this is planet Earth and thats kind of a thing here. Why, in a way I understand them is because - and again, not in any other fandom - this, dedicating a blog solemly on these people in a negative way, is an attack. And I’m saying that with all the neutral cell in my body.

Mischaracterization of my blog. This is a logical fallacy, by the way, the fallacy of composition. You are generalizing the WHOLE of my blog based on the most recent few days and extrapolating that because my rhetoric has been this way since Sunday, it must necessarily carry for the entirety of it. My blog’s existence is not an attack on anyone. It’s my fucking blog where I post about what I want, and until recently i didn’t interact AT ALL with larries on tumblr, and that only happened because they came to me! How is my existence an attack on anyone??

And yes, I understand the cult-like mindset and that you think (and not just you, and as I said, in a way this is a fact) these people are toxic and harmful, but thats the thing - they are people. They have feelings, and if someone attacks them, they are not going to like it, and that is true on anyone, not just larries. And here I’m not talking about the cult-like mindset or the CTs, I talk about humans, in my standards its not okay to attack them. 

Their behaviors are toxic and harmful. When a person is exposed to this, shown it, and they refuse to change their ways, at that point, why should I consider that person good? On a daily basis I deal with teenagers who make really stupid decisions. They also say some really horrible things. But when we talk about the thing, and why it was horrible to say, and they never say the thing again because now they understand how it was wrong, that person is not a bad person. That person made a mistake.

That isn’t what’s happening with larries. Other antis with more patience than I have will explain, using non-pejorative language, why the behavior larries engage in is disrespectful at the very least and heinous at the most egregious. But then the larrie dismisses all of this and continues with their behavior. We know that they know better. And yet. So that’s where I’m coming from. At this point they’re certainly choosing to be this way.

With that in mind, and by now you can see that I try to be as neutral as I can, and I disagree with MANY things larries do/say/imply, I haven’t seen something like this from them. Again, it may be just that I haven’t got around a blog that actually exists, a larry blog that’s dedicated solemly on talking about antis negatively. There ARE blogs, that talk in such a manner, not even one or two, but I have yet to see one that is JUST about the antis, while on the anti side you have larriearchive, thelarrative, the boycott blog, and others, who were dedicated to that. Please, by any means if you have a link to an anti-anti blog link it to me, I’d like to read it.

Larries dedicate their blogs to disrespecting Louis and Harry and all of the people in their lives calling them liars and intimating that they care more about money than their sisters and sick and dying mother. They send hate toward antis all the time. I already explained why @thelarrative and the boycott blog exist. Because there is a need for them. Larrie blogs are, at their heart, all hate blogs. They just pretend it’s something else.

tbc here

[yessoupy]

con’t from here

@thebiggestfanoffans continues with 

Some of the Larries’ hypocricy is beyond belief, just recently, in the light of Louis’ arrest, I wrote a long ass rant to someone in the fandom (not mentioning names):

the next three paragraphs are about james arthur, about whom I know nothing and don’t care (don’t send me anons explaining this, literally don’t care). I’ll go ahead and post the paragraphs here so if any of the rest of you care, you can have the full post. I’d excise them altogether, but the following paragraph links this rant to “the anti side” so. I guess it’s relevant.

“The hypocrisy in this fandom is fucking unbelievable. I see posts saying "be a decent human being and respect others” while the same people, in any other time literally shittalk on people just because they don’t like them. Remember James Arthur? Where was your respect then? I understand that he said nasty things, I disagree with him just like everyone else. But they took it another level and literally dragged his name through the dirt. Simon? Dan? Eleanor? Brianna &co? etc? Same. […]

“I like James’ music, I think he’s a talented artist, not a great spokesperson, but his music has nothing to do with that. Then people posted “don’t support James/if you listen to James you’re just as bad as him”, etc. The X Factor? I LOVE it. […] I find it amusing and enjoyable, same with BGT. posts? “YES FINALLY SIMON’S DISGUSTIN SHOW IS ENDING”. Don’t watch TXF, it’s the creature of the Devil himself. Literally anyone who ever said a bad word about the boys is a dusgusting piece of shit for this fandom, and they promote/manipulate you not to like their stuff. […]

"I don’t like a lot of people, but I’m mature and “decent human being” enough that I treat them with respect, even at their lowest. […] Because I’m not in highschool anymore, because I HAVE respect to people and I AM a decent human being, who understands that people are sometimes nasty, but they’re still people, and you treat EVERYONE EQUALLY RESPECTFUL.”

It goes the same for the anti side. Now, there is some equally nasty shit, and I have very mixed feelings about this.

Here is where we get into the nitty gritty details, mr. bojangles. first, an aristotelian categorization of blogtypes in 1D fandom. come sit close, little ducklings, and listen carefully.

Looking blogtype-wise, for one, there are the anti blogs, who post 1d content, but don’t ship larry*, others who post about 1d and are vocal about larries** and those whose blog - like yours in a way - that only/the main focus is on posts about larries.

*they don’t vocalize it, just say they don’t ship it when it comes up **are actively speak up against larries

(if we talk about larry blog types, its gonna be relevant later: neutrals, who think the ship is cute but don’t get involved; those who don’t share the conspiracies but ship; those who share the conspiracies but don’t blog about it (“drama free”), and those who are vocal about everything (here are most of “big” larries, but countless smaller blogs as well))

From these three kind of “anti blogs” the only one I have no comment on are the first ones, obviously (even though many times even they get down on a level that I find utterly disrespectful, but its rare).

For the record, you’ve got my blog wrong. As stated before, you’ve clearly not read my blog for very long, nor read my header. I understand that your interest is 1D-centric, but I’ve posted about the Olympics, my own life, politics, BASEBALL, star wars, etc. It’s a multi-fandom blog that is currently showing a lot of anti content -- that might have SOMETHING to do with the fact that larries put 400 notes on one of my posts and harassed me about it. That might explain why on Sunday night I was answering nasty anons with “fuck larries.” I was fucking heated. You would be too if ignorant fucks compared you to Hitler the day after you’d run across a larrie who quite genuinely supports fascists and spoken to an influential larrie who couldn’t see why following this person was unacceptable. “Me? I’M the fascist anti-Semite???” I definitely ramped up my anti content after Jay passed away and larries used that to bolster their theories. (More about that later.)

“Drama free” larrie blogs are fucking dangerous as well, because they hide the disrespect that is inherent in the conspiracy theorism. Anyone saying, “it’s my beliefs, leave me alone” is just as much a problem as the ones who I’ve blocked on twitter because they’re in Louis’s mentions with “larry this” and “larry that.” (More about this later, too.)

Now, I have been in a few fandoms, I thinks thats why its a good common ground we’re talking on, because you can’t speak down on me, and I don’t mean it offensive, just an observation - so lets note, that I have, through my fair share of fandom experience, never, once witnessed fandom vs. fandom this intensely. Just for the record. Alright.

I’ll ignore your stated assumption that I would be condescending to you, and add here that I have never witnessed this either, having been in multiple fandoms, RPF and otherwise, for 19 years.

So, the blogs that post about 1d AND are antis, whenever I have been on one of those blogs, most of the time are agressive and unneceseraly hateful towards anons who ask a larry related question. Again, I find it utterly disrespectful to talk to any person in such manner despite who they are. 

There’s a big difference between a larry-related question and a larrie-related question. I would have 0 problem answering questions about larry. As a ship, not as a conspiracy theory. But in my personal experience with the various larries I’ve interacted with here on tumblr in messages and on twitter in DM’s, a larrie is never asking a genuine question. NEVER. My actions are due to my experience. In the beginning, I truly thought it would be possible to convince conspiracy theorists that they are wrong. Maybe if I became friends with them that would help! We could have genuine conversations. And with one, I truly thought I was making progress. We’d DM about other things too, not just larry, but then Daisy touched her face in an instagram live and no matter how many times I explained, with screencaps and outlining all the logical fallacies involved with that “proof,” no matter how many times i explained it, the larrie with whom I’d built trust refused to accept it. So what’s the fucking point? I had been ignoring every. single. thing. I’d read about the psychology of conspiracy theorism -- they all say, don’t bother arguing the facts with them. Don’t bother debunking their claims because their CT is inherently unfalsifiable. When the guy took the gun into the pizza parlor to free the child sex trafficking victims from the clutches of Hillary Clinton, I tweeted that the CT’s are just going to say he’s a plant, even though he proved their theory wrong. And that’s what happened. Every single thing that proves that larry isn’t real is folded into the conspiracy theory somehow as a proof that it IS real. I was arrogant to assume I could do better. So no matter what I say, no matter what @lrambling or @thelarrative say, none of us are going to EVER sufficiently prove to larries that what they believe isn’t true. It’s by definition impossible.

So why the fuck does anyone bother with debunks? To prevent the creation of new larries. If 1D had broken up and everyone said “fuck this, we’re retiring and never playing another song again,” who cares, right? Interest will die out. But every single one of them are going solo. They all are appealing to different fanbases. There will be a huge influx of new fans who will end up on tumblr trying to figure out what the fandom is like. And they will be met by larries. After my notes were infested by larries and I ventured to their blogs to blog them, I noticed that many have a link in their bio labeled “New to fandom? Click here!” or some such. And the links lead to masterpost “proofs.” If our debunks are out there, there’s a better shot that they don’t fall into the conspiracy theorism as well.

tbc here

[yessoupy]

con’t from here

@thebiggestfanoffans

The bottom line here is, if we go through with the larrie narrative, it’s logically more likely that they are willingly closeted and Louis never, ever wants to come out. Harry is a whole other topic, but I would rather not drive into it, seeing how the spotlight lately is solemly on Louis and not Harry.

It’s not logically more likely that H and L are willingly closeted than forcibly closeted, because you know what logic states? There’s a third option: that they’re telling the truth when they say that Larry isn’t real. That Louis is telling the truth when he said that he’s straight, that he’s not lying when he has a girlfriend and says he loves her, and that he’s a father to the son whose birth certificate he signed. THAT’S what logic states. None of this, “if they’re closeted, it’s because they want to be.” No, fuck that. That’s fence-sitting bullshit that also ignores that Harry and Louis have spoken out on this, and that it’s disrespectful to call them liars (which is what the larries are doing, even if they’re shrouding it in contracts and shifting the blame to other, unknown entities).

As of the larrie fandom itself, how they handle things, its again, nasty and messy. For one, we have those who see conspiracies in fucking everything, hidden messages and patterns. And while yes, some may add up, I don’t think everything has a secret meaning, and I do know many many larries who think the same. My, lets say, “best friends” in the larrie fandom are ones who create posts, telling them to stop seeing things that are not there, and three of them are popular blogs, seeing the likes and reblogs on those posts are a breath of fresh air. 

None of the conspiracy theories add up. Here’s why, and this is a lesson I gave my psych classes last semester regarding inductive vs. deductive reasoning. Because conspiracy theorists DO use reasoning, that is for sure, but they are flawed in their approach and process.

deductive reasoning is the top-down approach. You take a universally-known general principle -- all animals have DNA -- and bring it down to a more specific conclusion -- all animals have dna, all sheep are animals, therefore sheep have dna. What you’ll find is a definite conclusion in this example, because no logical fallacies have been introduced, and we started from a true principle. The conclusion reached through deductive reasoning is logically certain.

Inductive reasoning is a bottom-up approach. The premises -- all the pieces of evidence at a crime scene, as detectives engage in inductive reasoning as a matter of course -- are viewed as supplying strong evidence for the truth of the conclusion. Even if logical fallacies are avoided, the conclusion reached through inductive reasoning is merely probable. It is not certain. However, conspiracy theorists treat it as certain. You know that a person can be wrongly accused of a crime and even be CONVICTED of it with convincing evidence. That’s inductive reasoning. Maybe it “makes sense” but that doesn’t mean it’s the truth. 

Students of mine always assume, when they meet me, that I’m an Astros fan. They’ve picked up a bunch of pieces of evidence -- a locker plate, a signed baseball card, a signed piece of paper, signed jerseys I’ll wear on special days, all of this by a Houston Astro. But am I? No. They reached a probable conclusion based on the evidence available to them, but they’re missing a lot of the story -- all of the signed baseball paraphernalia that I have displayed at home!! From former and current members of the Oakland A’s! And they don’t know that the player’s stuff I have displayed in my room is a guy who was drafted by the A’s and played in their system until he was traded in 2013. Or that I’ve followed his career since he was 18 and signed with my team. So the conclusion they reached is wrong, even though they’re not engaging in logical fallacies. It was only a probable conclusion, not a certain one.

What conspiracy theorists do is treat their conclusions reached through inductive reasoning that are littered with logical fallacies as certain. An anti, or even a kid who’s just hearing the conspiracy theory for the first time as an example, can say, “but wouldn’t it be more likely that _________?” And what happens then? A conspiracy theorist dismisses this completely logical reaction with “we’re using critical thinking skills.” Which they are, let’s be clear, but they’re wrongly applied.

And conspiracy theorists completely dismiss Occam’s Razor. Among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected. I can’t even BEGIN to count the assumptions that make up larrie theories. I don’t think they could, either.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think this is another place where different definitions being used is creating confusion: larries are conspiracy theorists. Larries believe that larry is real. Normal shipping behavior is people liking the idea of larry, writing and reading larry fics, but knowing that it isn’t real. Tumblr expands normal shipping behavior outside of consuming and producing fic - gifsets and photosets can now be part of normal shipping behavior, BUT BECAUSE OF larries, even these normal behaviors are confused for tinhatting conspiracy theorism because they’re used as “proofs.”

tbc here

[yessoupy]

@thebiggestfanoffans you could just message me. the only reason that post has that many notes is because the conspiracy theorists got hold of it. I actually don't have e many asks or messages. I'll address your long post after work, but I will say now - the "two sides" aren't how you put them. In order to be fair to the truth, you can't weigh the "evidence" of a CT the same as the words out of Louis's mouth. From a quick skim, it looks like you're taking pains to do that. Why??? If you want to message me from NOT an alias blog, it's not like I'll out you. Or you can keep your identity secret and message me from that blog. Whatever.