#there might be a typo somewhere in there im too tired to proofread

[demadogs]

I've been rewatching s3 for the first time in a while and I know the popular opinion is kind of that Mlvn started majorly going downhill in that season but tbh I don't really see it. The only things that stand out are the fact that Mike is less interested in his friends than previously, and the scene at the end where El tells him she loves him and kisses him and he seems a bit confused, you know what I'm talking about. But other than that, it seemed like typical teen drama to me, the kissing, his reaction to the break-up, trying to make it right again, I have to admit those scenes all seemed genuine to me. In my opinion, if there was a shift then it was between s3 and s4 because while I can say that they were still pretty cute in s3, in s4 I'm over it. I'm not sure if you ever liked Mlvn but either way, what do you think?

i see your point. in s3 theyre not depicted that much differently than lumax, mlvn just got more of the spotlight. thats a huge difference in s4 when we see how much lucas and max really love each other. but in s3 i could see how people would still like them. the big thing for me tho was just having the comparison to mike and will. it wasnt just a silly humorous break up, it was that in comparison to a very emotional fight alone in the pouring rain. and i also think the comparison to el and max is very telling too. max had to enlighten her that theres more to life than stupid boys because ALL mike and el did was kiss. when did they ever bond over things they had in common? max had to basically teach her how to be a normal teenage girl and find her own style and be her own person and i think being with mike held her back from being herself.

youre right, there was a big shift from s3 to s4 and i think that shift was in s3 mike genuinely believes hes straight but in s4 mike is trying to be straight. theyre both making out not because theyre in love but because they think thats what theyre supposed to do but for different reasons. el, because she doesnt know any better and shes still very new to normal life, and mike because i think hes kinda convinced himself that he likes it because hes never even considered that he might not like girls.

i wouldnt call them toxic until s4 and i think this is entirely because mike knows hes gay now but hes suppressing it and in doing so, hurting el and will in the process. el because shes putting more effort into the relationship than mike is, and will because hes feeling like hes losing his best friend because he wouldnt call or write and didnt hug him. and again, the comparison to lumax in this season is very telling. we get a representation of genuine love and they werent even together this season but we can still see that, meanwhile mike and el were technically together the whole time but they werent nearly as genuine as lumax. if they were i would love them. and this goes back to what ive been saying about lumax being a wonderfully written couple, so if the duffers are capable of writing a relationship this good, why wouldnt they approach the shows “main couple” in this way if theyre endgame? dont they want us to like them?

i liked mlvn in the first and second season but i wasnt ever like obsessed with them or anything i just thought it was a cute young relationship. in s2 i noticed byler and liked the idea of it but i never even imagined theyd actually go through with it. by s3 i started to realize byler might actually happen because a lot of mikes actions and the film choices they made were questionable so i didnt like mlvn anymore because i believed mike was gay.