#this does make me considerably more sympathetic to bruce too LMAO like he was good. he really really really was

[mangoisms]

there is something so incredibly interesting about this conversation and alfred’s view of bruce wayne and batman… i typed out the entire convo so its all under the cut because it's a Lot (that way no one has to read through the panels themselves. but also after this There are my Thoughts. which there are many)

Alfred: Perhaps it is less than a tragedy that Bruce Wayne’s affairs, for once, have displaced the Batman’s obsession. Bruce: What do you mean, Alfred? Alfred: Sir, forgive me for saying this, and understand in advance that I have had the pleasure of knowing no man more admirable than yourself… Bruce: But—? Alfred: But… Well, sir… As much as Gotham could not survive without the Batman… I doubt the Batman could survive without Bruce Wayne. Bruce: Have I been neglecting my personal relationships that much, Alfred? Alfred: Certainly not with me, sir, and not really with young Jason—but insofar as the Batman must take up much of your time, it is inevitable that Bruce Wayne’s affairs should suffer to a certain extent. You relationship with Miss Vale in particular— Bruce: Yes, I know I’ve been neglecting Vicki—but ever since taking on Jason, my time has been— Alfred: I fully understand, sir, and with luck, so does Miss Vale… But my meaning goes beyond such details, however important they may be. Bruce: And in the larger sense…? Alfred: By his very nature, sir, and necessarily to ensure his success, the Batman is a… a creature of but one overrriding emotion… Supreme outrage. Alfred: His consuming need for justice and retribution is the very factor which encourages his success. Therefore Bruce Wayne represents your positive side… The full spectrum of all your other emotions. Bruce: And I should pay more attention to those other emotions—even when I’m not forced to, as in the current crisis involving Jason? Alfred: It may be selfish of me, sir… Alfred: But I was never more proud of you than when you momentarily ignored the Bat-Signal to concentrate on Jason’s plight. Bruce: And as an ironic result, both Jason and Bullock were almost killed. Alfred: I admit there is that lesson to be learned as well, sir… But the Batman truly is a creature to be feared—even by yourself in the dark corners of your own soul. Without Bruce Wayne’s compassion to balance the Batman’s obsession… I fear the night-creature would devour your very heart. — Batman (1940) #377 

that last part especially is just so interesting. just because i feel it’s so different now?? like how bruce views himself, how everyone else views himself, where we are at the point in which batman is the true persona and bruce wayne is the fake one. like that one panel of diana, clark, and bruce with diana's lasso of truth where they introduce themselves and give out their real names but bruce's answer remains 'batman,' clearly implying that is how he truly sees himself

which i know, i think it was from the new-52 reboot of the league, so whether it was even any good is another question but i do think on the whole, dc has really pushed the whole bruce wayne is the fake side, the batman is the real one and it's not... bad, i guess. but i really like this interpretation so much more? where they are two sides of the same coin? you can't have one without the other and as alfred is saying, you shouldn't

in a way, i think what we have of bruce right now kind of proves alfred's point in how bruce would be consumed by his mission as batman if he neglected the other side of himself. i'm SURE it was not intentional on dc's part and they were trying to lean more into a grittier version of him and emphasize the batman side of him more for the audience but i also think it's what led to the deteroriation to him as a father? like a child - like jason here - doesn't need batman, he needs bruce. and i feel like we do see what happens when they get batman instead of that (like tim and cass; though it is received very differently since tim needs something else but takes it anyway and cass truly doesn't know any better and idk its that post about how bruce enabled her and saw himself in her and YEAH)

and i mean yeah, keeping in mind this is pre-crisis but still. did all of this happen because of jason's death??? maybe so. maybe so. i wanted to say no initially but it really is so impactful for him because like... that was his son. so i do kind of feel like it's safe to say that when jason died, this bruce wayne died alongside him too. idk if any of this makes sense but. yeah. yeah. yeah