#this isn't even an anti post but like... GUYS I DON'T WANT WANK

[janiedean]

What do you think of the recent Sansa discourse? (I will catch you up) a Sansa fan said that they felt Sansa was being an asshole when she calls Jon her half-brother. And the Sansa and Jonsa fans all collectively lost their minds. They are saying that Sansa was only trying to be polite and avoid calling him bastard the way Robb and the rest of the siblings do. Personally I feel like it’s impossible to ever discuss Sansa’s growth and an arc since people are always splitting hairs to make her a saint from the beginning of the series. But I know you love both Sansa and Jon so I wondered what you actually thought about this? I can honestly see it both ways. But I am growing increasingly frustrated with Sansa fandom and the inability to discuss her growth as a person since she can never be considered as anything but 100% kind, empathetic, and perfect at all times. I feel like people miss so much of the humor that exists in her early AGOT chapters when the do this as well.

... thanks for the catch up because I had... uh... zero idea this was a discourse but anyway as yes someone who loves both my opinion would be

i don't know in what language do people need to read it but like the point is that as you say sansa has both growth and evolution as a character so downplaying whatever she said about jon before she went off to KL... makes no sense? like. the point isn't how she called him because robb did call him his bastard brother and loved him anyway so whatever, the point is the intention and if jon himself thinks she was the most like catelyn/they weren't close and sansa herself while masquerading as alayne thinks 'oh I wish I could see him again I realised how wrong I treated him'.... then she didn't treat him like her brother which is fine because that's the entire point of both their storylines in that sense? XD

like, if (as I'm pretty much sure at this point) the whole plot is 'sansa goes from vale to north with jb+sandor+an army just in time to help jon & co retake winterfell after jon comes back to life in wow' then... the point is that they meet again and they have to learn to have a healthy relationship? and the point of the first stark reunion being the two that were the least close to each other means more literary conflict?? more to explore??? like if they always were nice to each other then there's nothing to write about?? that's the point??

also like......... idk how to say it but the two of them growing to have a relationship is good for the both of them??? and it's character growth/evolution and it means at the end of it the surviving starks are closer than they were in the beginning?? like denying it or twisting it like 'ah but she was always nice to him/courteous' which a) she wasn't b) he didn't perceive like that anyway means... idk that you don't care about them having an evolving rship??

I mean like if suddenly I decided that nah jaime and brienne actually didn't dislike each other he was just being an ass and she likes that humor so they absolutely enjoyed each others's company from the beginning not only it makes no sense plot-wise but it cheapens their entire journey because learning to like each other from actually not so much is half of the fun? like... idg what you get out of it other than making the text less compelling?

also like.... if you ship it there's nothing bad in it like relationships evolve it's not like you can't ship two ppl if they didn't have a great a+ amazing rship since the beginning otherwise it's BAD which is a thing I'm seeing in fandom in general anyway and... why???? honestly as someone who does love friends to lovers and shit I find it nonsensical because rewriting thing X in order to make it look more... okay or palatable or like it was never a conflict imvho means you don't really like thing X that much? idk if I'm making sense but honestly idg why it would be such a problem if sansa actually didn't gaf about jon pre-series if you ship it XD one would presume you'd ship it because she'd grow to gaf about him or... what's the point

> I feel like it’s impossible to ever discuss Sansa’s growth and an arc since people are always splitting hairs to make her a saint from the beginning of the series I mean... you're not wrong and I'd like for people to realise that 'demonizing sansa because she did and said stupid shit when she was twelve as all 12yo do is stupid and she's not a bad person for that' and 'sansa was never absolutely perfect and impeccable from page one' are two statements that can coexist but from what I gather a lot of people just... don't care about the fact that she actually has an arc that goes places when it comes to overgrowing being a 12yo

> she can never be considered as anything but 100% kind, empathetic, and perfect at all times my problem is that people say it but then proceed to completely ignore the book canon in which she is kind and empathetic because that kindness and empathy doesn't go towards the people they want it to go to and then I have to read show truthing with ppl saying that ramsay's death was IC for sansa or the last three seasons were IC for sansa when they're not and she was everything but kind and empathetic so like...... pick and choose one because she can't be kind and empathetic but then you like instances of the show when she was everything but and honestly i feel like most of current sansa standom completely sleeps on that fact or on how she's actually kind and empathetic lmao or how she's a complex character so she has faults same as everyone in these books but like it's... not worth the discussion imvho which is why I'm sticking with the corner that's friendly with the two ships for her I have and bye because honestly in between that and ppl deciding that she's the main character I can't anymore, and I'm saying it as someone who doesn't have a single main character in her top five so let's please get out of the way that it's because I don't want her to be or anything XD

tldr: I feel like with this fandom lately it's impossible to discuss sansa sticking to the text and I think this discourse makes no sense because denying sansa didn't gaf about jon doesn't make their relationship more compelling (and that goes with... turning any other rship either of them has into abuse™ like in order for those two to be shipped whichever way you like jonygritte and jond*ny don't have to be abusive rships and you can not describe sandor and tyrion as the worst™ that ever happened to say one but that's another problem we're not getting into now) and like... I don't know maybe it's me having picked the trash faves with the lamp as we say here but if I started retroactively deciding that theon in acok was really a nice dude or that jaime never did anything nasty in his life or that robb never was an ass to people because of badly managed anger then like... idk they wouldn't be the people I like? *shrug* honestly I don't understand and there's nothing bad in saying my fave#1 was an ass to my fave#2 but now they changed and they'll get better??? idk if you told me 'do you wanna read the fic where they actually like each other from the get-go' I'd say OKAY IT'S A FANFIC LET'S SEE HOW YOU DO IT but it's a fanfic it's not canon so X°D

people ignore the whole of sansa's agot chapters anyway because they're not convenient to half of the points they wanna make (I mean she and jeynep are also not exactly great to arya either but XDDDD) and they ignore the main point of her sl so at this point nothing surprised me but I just wish ppl didn't bend over backwards to make characters whatever they want because... they have to be moral or perfect™ and that's where I'm stopping X°D

then if you want mvho about the actual question is that whether sansa meant to be polite or not (which I don't think is the heart of the matter) the point is that she didn't care about jon as a sibling the way the others did and he didn't feel close to her either and the fact that his other siblings said he was their bastard brother and he still felt closer to them than with her means it's splitting hair over linguistics when the point is the intent and like... they weren't close, dot, which is entirely okay because the entire point is that they have to become close when they meet again X°D so idg what's the big deal about this but here you go X°D

[carmenserenity123456]

Feel sorry that cray cray Sakura stan haye-ramaa was harassing you (though you really got under their skin they even made a whole anti post on you lol) and you really shouldn't waste your time responding to that madara-fate guy, he's a loser hardcore ss/skr wanker and I mean hardcore, the guy spends all his days making a literal hundred + posts a month wanking off to ss/skr, and freaking mistagging tag under the other girls name without the anti tag. Best to block these two and move on.

Yeah, I shouldn't have responded to them but my emotions got the better of me. When I saw this really not nice answer from that person madara-fate guy which was tagged wrongly I just couldn't take it because this is provocative behaviour. SS stans scream at us that we supposedly tag things wrongly but they do it all the time. This person also was twisting things like he gave me arts and novels as a proof but I said to him, they are not canon. And I also said I don't care if SP likes SS or not, this is marketing and not canon. If he wanted to show me how SP loves SS, how he can explain scenes where Sakura says her date with Sasuke lasted two and a half minutes or where Sarada said that even if Sasuke is at home it feels like he isn't and Sakura made cry like face... I decided after a while to not make a conversation with this person because I was wasting my time and nerves. About this second person, she is always in anti sasusaku tags provoking other people and using lies as a proof of her ship. Why is she even coming to anti ss tag if she knows that some people might respond to her and then she is greatly surprise. But the most immature move was to make a post about me and it is so funny for me 🤣 But if she feels better then good for her 🤣