#user: curiousnonny

[alwaysspeakshermind]

Who was the worst in The Hunger Games, snow or coin?

Why?

Thank you. @curiousnonny

Oh, man.

I have a *lot* of feelings on this particular subject (one of my favorite things about THG trilogy is that it places in the antagonist role two good examples of my most loathed types of villains: politicians kidding but not really), so thanks for the ask!

Coin:

While I personally despise her subtle, lay-low/don't-strike-until-you-see-the-whites-of-their-eyes approach, I respect her commitment to winning, and I love that she was the one who got to unseat Snow.

That being said...I can't forgive her for the win-at-all-costs mindset that led her to use some of the most morally-reprehensible tactics I can think of when it comes to fighting (torturing citizens, trying to send a possible political rival to their death, sending the family member of said possible rival to an all but certain doom simply to eliminate the rival's will to live, treating The Other Side's children as expendable, etc.). I think she represents one of the most dangerous types of villains you see (both in fiction and in real life) because she presents herself as the sane, moderate, People's Champion type of leader who stands in opposition to oppression and brutality, but the regime she presents is simply severe and restrictive in different ways she's not advertising, and she is every bit as willing to sit back and watch people die as long as they are not her people...also, she truly doesn't care who she steps on, kicks aside, or ruins in her (quiet) quest for power.

[I also have this theory that she's named Coin because she and Snow have this two-sides-to-the-same-coin duality and we're meant to understand that while she's coming at things from a different angle than Snow, she has the same hunger for power and ruthless desire to maintain stability no matter the human cost.]

Snow:

[Another quick side note: I am a huge proponent of TBOSAS. It's my favorite villain origin story (Marissa Meyer's Fairest is probably the only other book that comes close for me), and I personally think it's Suzanne's Collins' best work and everyone should read it because it shows the fine line/slippery slope between a mindset of understandable self-preservation and the sort of arrogance-driven inhumanity that leads people into committing atrocities against each other or standing back and allowing the atrocities to happen. I will literally never NOT recommend this book but, that being said, I'm not going to reference Snow's actions in this book as they occur outside the realm of THG trilogy.]

While I allow a grudging respect for his logic, strategic efficiency, and commitment to being straightforward/open with Katniss about his dislike for her, I hate Snow's cruelty with a burning passion, and his utter contempt for people he deems "lesser" makes my blood absolutely boil. Yes, pragmatism is a thing. Yes, it is difficult being a leader. Yes, leaders do sometimes face a choice between saving the lives of many at the cost of a few.

But the thing about Snow is that he is simply intent on maintaining power whatever the (human) cost and to me, that crosses a line. No, he isn't the creator of the Games, but he does hold the power to end them. Does he end them? No. Instead, he not only chooses to keep them going, but deliberately finds ways to change the rules in his own favor, thus making an already-unfair, practically hopeless situation that much more unfair and hopeless. To intimidate the districts/instill fear in all citizens outside the Capitol, he makes sure they remember that they are only allowed to exist because of the Capitol's mercy, and that if they want to be allowed to keep that existence, they will have to abide by the Capitol's terms. Sending children into the Games as a form of punishment would be barbaric enough if it were just after the districts' uprising but, as we know from the books, that's not even the case...the children who are being killed in the games are the descendants of the original rebel districts, so forcing them to pay for the supposed sins of their grandparents/possible great-grandparents is beyond evil.

Also, there's this other thing his actions ultimately engineer/shape, and that's the twisted Capitol reality. Like all smart-but-evil dictators, he doesn't just rely on the weeding out of his enemies/the intimidation of the group he has declared "lesser." He also uses the Capitol citizens and their (very natural, very human) desire for peace and prosperity to create allies for himself by reinforcing this idea of Us vs Them, by drawing a distinction between Capitol children (precious, must be protected at all costs) and District children (expendable, animalistic, Other™ ). It's not a new tactic; it's one all kinds of groups/armies/organizations/governments use to engender hate and distrust, but it's a highly effective one in a world like the Capitol, where everyday life is so shiny and fun and distracting that it's easy for people to detach themselves from the reality that they're watching 24 children murder each other every year. And the thing about that, even if the Capitol citizens don't know it (or pretend not to know it), is that Snow encouraging them to celebrate the Games and view the districts as less than human is also costing the Capitol citizens their humanity in return (aka, panem et circenses, where you shelve or hand over your morality in exchange for food/comfort/entertainment etc.). So, altogether, while Snow is not actively getting his hands dirty by killing people himself (excluding those poison deaths, possibly), he is routinely arranging the murders of innocents, recruiting and corrupting (or destroying) everyone he possibly can, and he's doing it all in the name of peace.

All of those things combined pretty much enrages me, so ultimately, my opinion boils down to this:

Both Coin and Snow are effective leaders and terrible people whose desire for power and control push them into crossing lines that should not be crossed. But out of the two, Snow is the worst.

[lemonluvgirl]

What do you think about the way character appearance being portrayed or narrated in THG novels?

What's your opinion about THG movies casting? Especially Katniss' and The Seam residents casting?

Is it important that Seam and Merchant residents of District 12 have different appearance in the screen? Yes/No? Why?

What do you think about division /dynamics between Seam and Merchants in District 12?

Thank you :)

@curiousnonny

Well, I think the narration of the main character being a POC is important because that's the way the book was written. The author specifically chose to tap into certain ethnic images, and mindsets in order to create a picture and build a world in which the story plays out. It helps the reader relate to the character or to learn to see a different perspective and appreciate or empathize with her on a deeper level.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, one of the biggest disappointments for me when I saw the Hunger Games movies was the white-washing of the cast. I mean no disrespect to J-Law because she delivered a wonderful performance as Katniss. But it really saddened me to see Hollywood fail to deliver a female POC protagonist at the time the movies were made (2013-2015).

It's one of the biggest bones I have to pick with the movies. Because Katniss wasn't supposed to be white, neither was Gale or most of the people in the Seam.

I know some people are of the mindset that the whitewashing wasn't intentional and that the studio/director/casting people simply picked the actors they thought would do the job best, but at the end of the day, it takes away from the conflict of the story and the struggle of the characters from the books.

The reason why The Hunger Games books are so fascinating is because of the way the author unravels the struggles of the characters and gets them to rethink their preconceived prejudices and mindsets.

There's a really awesome post out there that talks about how Katniss distrusts the Merchants (they don't look like the ppl of the Seam, dress like Seam, eat like Seam, etc.) at the beginning of the first book and then throughout the story after getting to know Peeta, during the Games she realizes that her distrust and her misconceptions about him and the Merchants are based on lies and Capitol manipulation to keep District 12 at odds with each other so they don't band together and rebel against the Capitol.

She goes through this process several times in all three books with different people but it starts clearly from a place of ethnic identity and grows from there until she reevaluates her ideas about everyone including people from the Capitol and realizes, as Haymitch aptly says, "Who the real enemy is", and it's not the blond-haired merchants of District 12 that are barely better fed and clothed than many of the Seam.

That's one of the things I admire about the writing of The Hunger Games because the ideas inside the wiring find a way to transcend race, without ignoring injustice and prejudice.

I know a lot of tik-tok users are of the impression that Collins dropped the ball with her depiction of Peeta (white-blue-eyed messiah-savior imagery is tossed around a lot) at the end of Mockingjay when she had Katniss end up with Peeta instead of Gale but I think that's an incredibly narrowminded view. Everything in Collins' writing suggests that the struggle toward freedom for the people of Panem was one that crossed all races and genders. Part of Katniss' internal struggle was to shed her own mindset that people who were not like her (Merchants, other Tributes from different Districts, the other Victors, the Capitolites, etc.) were the enemy. Which is the struggle at the heart of every form of racism.

So having Katniss engage in a relationship with someone of a different race, different class, have mixed race children with them, and build a life after the events of the books was really poetic and bold.

And we didn't get any of that satisfying conclusion in the movies because Hollywood took it away by making Katniss, Peeta, and Gale white.

I think the different ethnicities between the Seam and Merchants would have made for a more real and interesting story than the one presented in the movies. I think that it would have resonated with a lot of people because it would have been more honest with the source material and would have added to the growth of the characters.

But that's just my opinion.

[katnissmellarkkk]

Fanfic Ask

😂 What’s the funniest comment someone has left on a fic of yours?

🙅‍♀️ What is one trope you refuse to ever write?

👀 Do you have any words/phrases you use habitually?

Thank you @curiousnonny

-

of all my comments on any of my fics, these are the ones that made me laugh in particular 😂.

-

Uhhhh idk???? Yes there definitely is but I can’t think of what? Probably something I find really cringey? Or where the characters are like too campy or hokey.

-

Definitely but alas I’m also drawing a blank here too 😭😭😭. Idk I’m a recovering purple prose user so I probably have a lot of phrases in my fics still that are like “a perfect statue, carved in some unknown stone, smooth like marble, glittering like crystal” quote’s from twilight, the book that first taught me to write and now the example held up of what not to do when writing 😭😭😭😭

-

[alwaysspeakshermind]

What do you think about Star Crossed Lover strategy on 74th The Hunger Games?

Who did invent it?

Who benefited from it?

Thank you

@curiousnonny

As a reader who couldn't help strategizing along with Katniss the second I started reading, the SCL strategy wasn't an idea that even crossed my mind, but I personally think it's brilliant. Like Haymitch kept trying to explain to Katniss, the point of the interviews are basically to sell yourself to the crowd...yes, the scores are a big deal, but since nobody except the Gamemakers knows WHY the tributes are getting those scores, the audience's first chance to get a feel for who they want to bet on happens when they "meet" the tributes. And as everyone who's ever watched a reality show knows, the way you set yourself apart from the competition is by being memorable...not necessarily skilled, not necessarily likeable, not necessarily enviable, but MEMORABLE.

(Ex.: whether we're talking The Bachelor, American Idol, The Voice, X Factor, Top Model, Survivor etc., there's always those contestants who you meet in the first round and then promptly forget about, because there's nothing about them that sticks out...you don't love them, you don't hate them, you don't think "Oh wow, he's really handsome" or "Oh wow, her voice is incredible" or "OH, she's the girl who showed up in the unicorn head/that's the guy who brought the creepy puppet," or "Oh, she's the one who wants to win for her grandmother." You just...forget them. They blend in. And while that's not a huge thing in a tv show that gives you the chance to come back, in a televised fight to the death where a sponsor's gift can literally make or break your survival, blending in is NOT the route you want to go.)

The SCL strategy is great because it makes K&P instantly relatable, it makes them tragic figures rather than just two more tributes headed to their probable deaths (something the Capitol crowd is all too accustomed to seeing), and it's new. They haven't seen that before, and it makes a buzz (think about how people react nowadays to the announcement that two celebrities they already were interested in are dating, and multiply that by about a thousand). Katniss and Peeta can't both win, but their lives/chances to be together can be prolonged with...*trumpet fanfare* SPONSOR GIFTS! WOOHOO! And in the Capitol, where life is a lot easier than anywhere else in the world, it's an easy enough story to believe, so it practically guarantees extra sponsors.

Now, in terms of who invented it/benefitted from it? I submit below this particular passage from one of my favorite scenes that I wish the film had portrayed more accurately:

Peeta has only just stepped from his car when I slam my palms into his chest. He loses his balance and crashes into an ugly urn filled with fake flowers. The urn tips and shatters into hundreds of tiny pieces. Peeta lands in the shards, and blood immediately flows from his hands.

"What was that for?" he says, aghast.

"You had no right! No right to go saying those things about me!" I shout at him.

"What's going on?" says Effie, a note of hysteria in her voice. "Did you fall?"

"After she shoved me," says Peeta as Effie and Cinna help him up.

Haymitch turns on me. "Shoved him?"

"This was your idea, wasn't it? Turning me into some kind of fool in front of the entire country?" I answer.

"It was my idea," says Peeta, wincing as he pulls spikes of pottery from his palms. "Haymitch just helped me with it."

"Yes, Haymitch is very helpful. To you!" I say.

"You are a fool," Haymitch says in disgust. "Do you think he hurt you? That boy just gave you something you could never achieve on your own."

"He made me look weak!" I say.

"He made you look desirable! And let's face it, you can use all the help you can get in that department. You were about as romantic as dirt until he said he wanted you. Now they all do. You're all they're talking about. The star-crossed lovers from District Twelve!" says Haymitch.

"But we're not star-crossed lovers!" I say.

Haymitch grabs my shoulders and pins me against the wall. "Who cares? It's all a big show. It's all how you're perceived. The most I could say about you after your interview was that you were nice enough, although that in itself was a small miracle. Now I can say you're a heartbreaker. Oh, oh, oh, how the boys back home fall longingly at your feet. Which do you think will get you more sponsors?"

The mastermind? Peeta.

But the aider and abettor? Definitely Haymitch.

And in terms of beneficiaries, it's both Katniss and Peeta, because even though the strategy causes them a lot of issues later on, it's ultimately the thing that helps them survive, whether you're looking at it from the angle of the Games or afterward, when the Capitol becomes the immediate threat but they at least are able to face it together.

[alwaysspeakshermind]

How do you think Peeta could join the Careers at 74th Hunger Games?

What did he do? Duel with another career? Killing another tributes on the Cornucopia?

Do you think before The Rule Change (2 victors from the same district), Peeta already determined to help Katniss becoming the winner? Thoughts?

Thank you :)

@curiousnonny

Ooh, I like this one!

I think there's kind of two plausible answers to this one based on what we know about how the Careers operate, what we know happened during training and at the Cornucopia, and what we obliquely hear from Haymitch about how Peeta "barely got in with them."

Haymitch does some smooth-talking with the Careers' mentors, sells them on Peeta as an ally because he's strong, his score was comparable to their tributes' scores, he's one half of the star-crossed lovers who are going to have sponsors falling all over them, he allegedly has intel he might be willing to cough up on Katniss (we know he won't and Haymitch knows he won't, but tbh, if I were a mentor, I'd absolutely believe Peeta's as interested in winning as everyone else is), and all those things listed above are the sort of thing that would make him a decent choice for an ally.

Peeta does some smooth-talking to convince the Careers to let him join. We know from Katniss/the way people respond to him, that Peeta's good with words. He's also likeable and, frankly, just doesn't have the kind of personality you'd consider a threat in a winner-takes-all fight to the death. It's the kind of thing you see on reality shows like Survivor or The Amazing Race all the time, where a strategy popular amongst the strongest players is "we have a warrior mentality and want only the strongest people/teams in the finale because that will be a real competition and if you win you'll have legendary bragging rights," but that's also coupled with this underlying sneakier-but-more-sensible strategy of "I also want to keep around someone I'm confident I can beat because if it comes down to a me or them thing, I want the advantage" and Peeta fits that bill nicely. Like, he's strong enough/brings enough to the table to not drag the team down, but they also don't consider him a big threat, which makes him easily disposable. Because Katniss mentions Foxface as his "first kill" (and they've been talking so we assume she would know), I think we can pretty safely rule out Peeta killing another tribute, but since Katniss also mentions he looks like he's been in a fight the first time she sees him in the arena ("His face is swollen with bruises, there's a bloody bandage on one arm, and from the sound of his gait, he's limping somewhat"), I think the theory I personally subscribe to is that he held someone off during the bloodbath at the Cornucopia long enough to make them listen to his pitch.

"Do you think before The Rule Change (2 victors from the same district), Peeta already determined to help Katniss becoming the winner? Thoughts?"

In short...yes, yes I do.

Actually, I think there's a good case for "Peeta made up his mind that Katniss was coming back, not him on the ride to the train" simply because of how he switches from openly crying on the way there (not surprising considering the circumstances, but also possibly indicative of someone who's struggling with the realization that he doesn't want to die, but the person he most wants to survive isn't himself) to demanding Haymitch's full attention, and trying to find out what they need to do.

Then, once they get to the Capitol and Haymitch sees that they've both got potential, Peeta doesn't let Katniss downplay her abilities, helps her maintain their We're A Team strategy in public (honestly, as someone who teeters on the brink of severe introversion at times and literally cannot make small talk/keep a conversation going when the battery has run dry or I'm not well-acquainted with whoever I'm talking to, I think it cannot be emphasized enough how valuable Peeta's contribution is here since he essentially single-handedly lays the groundwork for the dramatic interview confession and makes the idea that they're at least friends somewhat believable), and reminds her not to get involved in the bloodbath when he can see she's considering running for the bow.

And once they're in the arena, then of course he misleads the Careers and holds off Cato after the tracker jacker incident, so basically, by the time they announce the rule change, I think Peeta was probably just like, "Oh, cool. Too bad they couldn't do something like this EARLIER, when I might have actually been able to contribute something to the team" (because at that point, I think he was also still pretty sure he was going to die from his leg wound).

[alwaysspeakshermind]

What does Katniss mean when she says: “A kind Peeta Mellark is far more dangerous to me than an unkind one”?

Chapter 4 of The Hunger Games novel.

Thank you

@curiousnonny

Well.

I kind of hate that I didn't need you to specify that this came from Chapter 4 of THG. Like I really, really hate that I already knew that, lol. (Yes Mom, you may be right...maybe I do know these books better than I should!)

Anyways, thanks for the ask, and here goes!

When you're in pretty much any competition, it's much, much easier to destroy your competitor if you don't care about them. If you dislike them, it's even easier; you might even take some pleasure in shoving your victory down their throat. While the Games are a much higher-stakes competition that essentially requires you sell your soul to come out on top, that same principle applies if you are a practical, rational person who is a survivor at heart...and Katniss is. For her, cruelty and neglect and rudeness have basically zero effect. But kindness is a problem, because it's not something to be expected in an environment like the Games, and the reaction she has to it is one she is already trying to guard against...like she says in one of my favorite book quotes ever, "Kind people have a way of working their way inside me and rooting there."

(I get it, Katniss. I really do. It's the WORST 😭)

The thing about the Games is that they're cruel on the basest level. In order to "win," you have to force yourself to stop thinking of 23 other kids you've never met (assuming you don't know your district partner) as human beings, and start thinking of them in terms of predator/prey. And for Katniss, that's the struggle...like she says when telling Gale goodbye before the train, "The awful thing is that if I can forget they're people, it will be no different at all [than killing animals]." While she doesn't want to have to kill people to survive, she knows herself well enough to know that she'll try with everything in her to get back home, and to do that, she has to play by the Capitol rules and not think of her opponents as people. Peeta is a problem for her, because not only is he not horrible, but he's nice and she feels as though she owes him. If she believes he's got something up his sleeve, or is being holier-than-thou, or even just resents her for getting a better score, she has a better chance of convincing herself that she could kill him if it came down to it. But the more she gets to know about him, the more she realizes how genuinely kind he is, and since him being kind lowers her chances of making it back home to her sister, she tries to limit how much they talk, not think about him any more than she has to, or even just make herself mad at him.

But what is that thing Gale says about him in CF, when they're all training? "It'd be better if he were easier to hate."

And what does Katniss reply? "Tell me about it...If I could've just hated him in the arena, we all wouldn't be in this mess now. He'd be dead, and I'd be a happy little victor all by myself."

Peeta's just too darn kind and too darn likeable for Katniss to effectively shut him out for any lengthy period of time, so that's why her usual methods involve either complete avoidance or the literal locking of doors between them. And because she figures all that out pretty quickly and knows his kindness is going to cause her to make some not-totally-smart moves, it both worries and frustrates her and she reacts in typical Katniss fashion...she throws those perfectly good cookies out of the train window and, you know...inadvertently makes it worse for herself thanks to the dandelion <3

[alwaysspeakshermind]

What do you think about Madge Undersee? Any headcanons?

Do you think her gift of the gold Mockingjay pin to Katniss just a coincidence? Or is there any connection to the rebellion in District 12?

Why do you think she brought the morphling after Gale’s whipping in Catching Fire?

How did you feel about Madge’s exclusion from the movies?

Who would be your fancast for Madge if there is a new adaptation?

Thank you so much :)

@curiousnonny

MADGE! My underrated, unsung, practically unknown no thanks to the films hero!

Ugh, where to begin.

(Also: sorry it's taken me so long to reply to this, and thank you for the ask! Madge Undersee deserves better than people who only watched the films going "Wait, you mean Mags, right?" 💖)

Even though we don't ever get to know her to the extent that we get to know characters like Finnick, or Prim, or even Plutarch, I love that we're able to see what kind of a person she is through what she does. (For instance: she is the mayor's daughter which basically elevates her to a certain position of status, but the girl she considers a friend/eats lunch with in silence every day, is a girl from The Seam. She tries to make light of a serious topic like the Reaping through jokes, brings a pin that once belonged to her aunt who made it very far into a particularly horrible edition of the Games to Katniss as a present, brings some of her mother's expensive meds for Gale, etc.) I like that she sort of befriends Katniss against her will, and doesn't treat her any differently after the latter becomes something of a de facto celebrity, and that she seems to instinctively understand that Katniss wants/needs companionship that doesn't involve guilt, pity, pressure, hero-worship, forced happiness etc., and does her best to offer that without any strings attached.

I think her gift of the pin was more coincidence than anything else, but I also think that it's fun to headcanon that Madge maybe spends some of her long, lonely evenings eavesdropping on her father's meetings/calls. And that maybe at some point she overheard something about how Haymitch won his Games, that he was partnered with her aunt (the original wearer of the pin), and thought that it might possibly do Katniss some good if he saw her wearing it.

Re: Gale and the morphling: The simplest explanation is that Madge is a kind person who considers Katniss a friend, and because of that would obviously try to help out someone who is basically Katniss' family.

That being said, I've always leaned toward the idea that maybe there were some sparks between Madge and Gale that we don't get to see, because it always seemed to me that he talks sharply to her in the beginning of THG in a way that doesn't seem fully connected to her being one of the richer kids. Like yes, I'm definitely reaching here, but to me, there's an aspect to it that feels like he might be a little attracted to her but annoyed because he assumes that since she's from the merchant side of town she probably thinks herself better than kids from The Seam. And, since Katniss and we all know that's not the case, I choose to believe that Haymitch's remark in CF is related to a Madge/Gale connection...maybe, while being grumpy about how close Katniss and Peeta were getting, Gale started hanging out more with Madge, since they in essence both lost their best friend while she was gone to the Games/busy on the tour, and maybe that's when he realized she's not stuck-up, and maybe there were some hints of something more between them, and maybe that's why Madge rushed over to offer help in the one way Gale would be unable to refuse.

"How did you feel about Madge’s exclusion from the movies?"

*feelings summarized in gif below*

While I understand that not EVERYTHING can make it into the films due to time constraints, I think that excluding Madge from the first movie made it that much easier to exclude the story of Maysilee Donner from the narrative, which in turn lessened the significance of the pin itself and helped keep the details of the last Quarter Quell from making it into CF. (Which, in my humble opinion, is a huge loss. The impact Haymitch's Games had on him essentially shape him into the character we know, and it adds another layer to the rebellion angle once we learn that Madge, whose family is supposed to represent the Capitol's presence in District 12, has inadvertently gifted Katniss a direct reminder to Snow/the Capitol of their failure to control Haymitch at a time when they're actively failing to control Katniss and Peeta.)

So, all in all? I think it was a mistake to not include Madge, and I'm honestly still a little bitter about it. It's not even as if a huge part had to be written for whoever they cast. We just needed to see her enough to establish her relationship to Katniss, and it would've made the losses in MJ so much more emotional if it were made clear that someone Katniss spent a lot of time with over the years was just gone...without warning, without any chance for a goodbye, and literally in the blink of an eye. Like, on some level, I can't believe I'm advocating for more sadness from the MJ films, but I really do believe it would have added a lot of depth if she had just been included in a small way.

"Who would be your fancast for Madge if there is a new adaptation?"

This is a little outside the age-range now, but I think I've always pictured someone like Elle Fanning. Madge has a sort of quiet strength/calm kindness mixed with humor about her, and I think that EF would play that very well <3