#when the memory of sora running in there is shown in ddd the door is not there

[daylighteclipsed]

Remember how ReCoded just casually drops the fact that this is a “true memory” from the heart of Destiny Islands even though we literally see Riku get swallowed up by darkness in KH1, we watch it happen with Sora before the islands get totally wrecked like this, so how could Riku also leave through this portal afterwards

[violethowler]

Timeless Dream: Explaining How Timeless River Fits With The Kingdom Hearts Rules Of Time Travel

A common complaint about the use of time travel in Kingdom Hearts is that even if the rules that Xehanort’s incarnations operate by make sense and are internally consistent, this doesn’t explain the conundrum of Timeless River or how Sora and Riku didn’t have to leave their bodies behind in order to go back in time to Destiny Islands before it got swallowed by Darkness. 

But while looking through various discussions about it, I stumbled across a reddit thread discussing the idea that Sora, Donald, and Goofy visiting Timeless River in Kingdom Hearts 2 was akin to them entering the Heart of Disney Castle and viewing its memories. 

And suddenly it hit me. Timeless River wasn’t Disney Castle remembering the past. It was Disney Castle dreaming of the past. Timeless River is a “special world” in the same sense that the Sleeping Worlds are in Dream Drop Distance: it’s a dream world. 

Now you’re probably wondering “how is that possible? Disney Castle was never swallowed by Darkness”. But, remember what started this sojourn into Disney Castle was Pete, dissatisfied with his current lot in life serving Maleficent, wishing very hard that he can go back to the good ol’ days. And like Cinderella says in her movie, “a dream is a wish your heart makes.” 

Remember what Young Xehanort said about the Power of Waking in Kingdom Hearts III? “It’s about traversing hearts to reach worlds.” The most visible use of the Power of Waking was Riku diving into Sora’s heart to wake him up at the end of DDD. And the inside of Sora’s heart was represented by Destiny Islands. 

So if the inside of a person’s heart is represented by a world that’s important to them, what does the inside of a world’s heart look like? 

In Kingdom Hearts 1, it was established that when a world is consumed by Darkness, only those with strong hearts are able to survive, either making it off world like Sora, Riku, and Kairi did, or persisting as Summon Gems. This points to the idea that a world’s heart is tied to the hearts of its inhabitants. If the world falls to Darkness, so do its people. 

In theory, that means that the hearts of the world's inhabitants can influence the heart of their world in some way. If someone had a strong enough wish (read: dream) they could in theory influence their world’s dreams. So just like how the look of the inside of a person’s Heart is influenced by the world that’s most important to them, what the inside of a world’s Heart looks like can therefore be influenced by the thoughts, wishes, and dreams of its inhabitants. 

“But what about the Door to the Past? How does that fit in with this?” you’re probably thinking. 

Well, let’s look at Dream Drop Distance, where Riku used the power of waking to enter Sora’s dreams at the end of the game. What appears when Riku exits Sora’s dreams at The World That Never Was, and when he enters them again in the Mysterious Tower? A Link Portal.   

In DDD, when entering the link portal into Sora’s heart we had Riku dive into Sora’s heart to reach the version of Destiny Islands waiting at the bottom. And what happens when Sora, Donald, and Goofy enter the door to Timeless River?

They fall out the other side. 

Enter portal->Fall into the inside of the Heart. 

Merlin and Pete’s doors to Timeless River weren’t actual time travel. They were Link Portals to dive into the Heart of Disney Castle!!!! It may not look the same as the Link Portals from DDD and beyond, but leaving aside the fact that DDD wasn’t in development yet, we’ve only seen those portals being opened by or in relation to Keyblade Wielders. The Heart of a World could theoretically have its own unique design for portals into its Heart.  

And as for the Windows to the past that pop up when Sora and the trio visit Timeless River? Well one of the ideas presented in Dream Drop Distance is the concept of dreams within dreams. 

Now, as I was putting this together I was reminded of another apparent inconsistency: how does Sora and Riku going back in time to the night Destiny Islands was swallowed by Darkness in the original game to enter the Sleeping Worlds fit with Xehanort’s rules of time travel? 

I’ve seen some people suggest that Riku’s heart being expelled from his body by Ansem Seeker of Darkness and Sora losing his heart in KH1 count towards this requirement, but this doesn’t really make sense with what we’ve seen.The only characters who have been shown being able to physically travel through time as disembodied Hearts are Ansem and Maleficent. All the time travelers in KH3 were only able to exist outside the Realm of Sleep by putting their hearts in Replica bodies. 

There weren’t any replicas available on Destiny Islands at the time of KH1, and if there were, the appearances of Xehanort’s various incarnations in KH3 indicate that putting Sora and Riku’s present day hearts into Replica bodies in the past would just result in KH2 Sora and Riku running around KH1-era Destiny Islands. 

But then these two trains of thought came together: without a Replica body, time travelers’ disembodied hearts cannot exist outside the Realm of Sleep. But a person can physically dive into their world’s heart with a strong enough dream, and can shape the inside of the world’s heard according to that dream. Now what dream could be strong enough to shape the inside of Destiny Island’s heart to recreate the night of its fall to Darkness in Kingdom Hearts 1? 

Sora and Riku’s time travel in Dream Drop Distance maintains the internal consistency of the series because they didn’t actually travel through time. Yen Sid sent them into a dream of Destiny Islands’ past on the day it fell to Darkness so they could use the dream recreation of the island’s fall to gain access to the Realm of Sleep. Them being in their KH1 bodies is the equivalent of the times they need to change form in order to blend in with their environment. It’s just that in this case, the environment they automatically changed to blend into was “when” not “where.” 

So what happened with Timeless River wasn’t actual time travel. It was Pete wanting so badly to go back to his golden years that he unlocked the Power of Waking and dove into his home world’s Heart to experience that dream - all without ever being aware that was what he was doing. 

TL;DR: Timeless River is a dream world created inside Disney Castle’s Heart and accessed by the Power of Waking. Same with Sora and Riku going back in time to before Destiny Islands’ fall to enter the Sleeping Worlds. 

Sora and Riku traversed the heart of Destiny Islands to reach the Sleeping Worlds.

Sora, Donald, Goofy, and Pete traversed the heart of Disney Castle to reach the “special world” of Timeless River.

[daylighteclipsed]

wait okay its from a post of urs from a couple months ago but '#you know what else is weird? the door in front of the secret place that looks like the door from the pink heart station#when the memory of sora running in there is shown in ddd the door is not there' what scene are you talking about from ddd?

Oh, I’m talking about when Young Xehanort time travels (?) with Sora to the night Destiny Islands falls. In the KH1 gameplay, there’s a big, pink door you have to open to enter the Secret Place that matches the one you see during the tutorial on the heart stations. But in DDD, we don’t see it in the flashback.

It could just be because the door is only supposed to be a gameplay mechanic or only visible to Sora. But it does show up in CoM in a cutscene/outside gameplay, which makes me think, no, it was actually there?

(Even stranger is both this door and the Darkside on the destroyed islands show up in Riku’s memories, when as far as we know, only Sora has seen the door and fought the Darkside and seen the islands destroyed. Riku shouldn’t have these memories. But I digress.)

Idk what it means or if it really means anything. I just thought it was an interesting choice to leave the door out of the DDD flashback. DDD also makes it seem like Sora is chasing Ansem SOD into the Secret Place, which is also kind of weird/different than what happens in KH1.