thatdeathwitch

[thatdeathwitch]

Materialism is literally inextricable from Greek religious practice because the ideal relationship between gods and humans is one based on mutual gift-giving.

[thatdeathwitch]

If eusebeia is expressed in cult, the problem arises that the rich and powerful once more have a chance to outdo the poor. Against this it was emphasised at least since Hesiod that for the gods it is not the absolute value of the gift that matters, but that each man should make sacrifice according to his means. From most probably the sixth century on, the question about the ‘most pious man’ was answered by an anecdote in the Seven Wise Men style: the god of Delphi, asked who was most pious, did not name the rich man who brought his hecatombs, but a simple peasant who used to throw a handful of barley corns into the flames of his hearth. Thus again eusebeia avoids the extravagant and excessive.

- Greek Religion by Walter Burkert, ‘Eusebeia’ pg274

[thatdeathwitch]

I don’t know why people are so afraid of modern implications in Hellenic polytheism. Yes, the foundation of our religion relies on the ancients, but even the ancients themselves would’ve adapted with the times had they been allowed to do so. There’s no shame in transformation and adaptation.

Whilst there is no religion without the foundation the ancients laid out for us, there is also no future for us if we do not adapt. Period.

[thatdeathwitch]

donald trump will die on july 20th 2025 at 1pm pacific standard time

[thatdeathwitch]

You think Odysseus was Homer's favorite blorbo because of the amount of details he put in his descriptors. I think Odysseus was Homer's favorite blorbo because of the absolute hell he put him through. You cannot convince me that The Odyssey wasn't just someone going buck wild with their favorite oc—because that's exactly what it was.

[thatdeathwitch]

fresh, clean no-terf version for reblogs!

Your mom and aunts aren’t on tumblr.  Please warn them about this as well. 

[thatdeathwitch]

happy PRIDE i’m here i’m queer and i believe the land should be given back to the proper indigenous stewards.

[thatdeathwitch]

What do you think about people who are in their periods praying, giving offerings and/or approaching the altar? I read that you weren’t allowed to enter the temples in ancient greece if you were menstruating so I have that doubt

Χαίρε, anon! ((:

So, of the hundreds of inscribed temple regulations we have from ancient Greece, not a single one bars menstruating women from participating in ancient Greek religious life.

There are four exceptions to this rule, though calling them "exceptions" is admittedly very generous.

To begin, all four inscriptions come from late antiquity and they all belong to temples of Near Eastern import. Of note is the fact that not one of these four temples belongs to a Greek god. This suggests that certain Near Eastern traditions did exclude menstruating women from participating in religious life, but the same cannot be said about Greek women. Why is that, though?

The four inscriptions (which were written in ancient Greek) give us some clues. For starters, the word "menstruation" is not explicitly used in temple inscriptions found on the Greek mainland; it is instead referred to as a "female matter." This skirting around any direct mention of menstruation is representative of the near-complete segregation of the sexes in ancient Greece.

To put it simply, Greek men did not discuss "female matters," or the female body, for that matter. Doing so was considered extremely taboo. So taboo that physicians—by and large—did not treat female patients, meaning most women died of illness. Addressing menstruation in direct terms would mean that it was no longer out of sight and out of mind, and the Greeks likely wanted to keep it that way.

The issue is made doubly complex when you realize that we don't actually know how ancient Greek women managed their periods. Experts like Dr. Helen King—a classicist who specializes in menstruation in ancient Greece—theorize that women of means maybe wore linen cloth to catch their menses. Poor women (who couldn't afford such expenditures) likely remained in their homes to bleed freely.

What does any of this information tell modern-day worshippers? Well, it suggests that we simply don't know enough to be able to say one way or the other whether or not menstruating Greek women were excluded from religious life.

It most certainly tells us that menses management is way different now than it was back then. And unlike our religious predecessors, we now have personal hygiene products we can use to ensure we don't bleed out at the altar lol 😆

In general, I don't think it makes sense to pretend like modern worshippers can't menstruate and worship at the same time. There certainly isn't enough ancient evidence to suggest that was the standard, so why make it the standard now? This is definitely one of those things where I'm like "do what feels most appropriate to you."

I don't menstruate anymore, but if I did, I'd probably still worship. Alternatively, if I was on my period and feeling mentally unclean/generally gross, I wouldn't (unless I was approaching the gods for some relief).

I know people who take breaks from their religious duties while menstruating, and I know others who don't make any changes to their routines at all. It all depends on your personal comfort level. Just like how everyone's period is different, everyone's worship is different! And that's OK ((:

[thatdeathwitch]

Do you think Hellenic Polytheists need to worship exactly the way the ancient Greeks did? I've noticed this sentiment somewhat heavily, and while I think it's important to understand the historical basis for our practice and adhere to the values (xenia, kharis, etc.) it's kinda made me feel insecure about my practice if i feel a want to deviate at all. Would love to know your thoughts!

Khaire, anon; this question has been very thought-provoking, so I’d like to thank you for asking it—genuinely! :)

My opinion on this is subject to change depending on the circumstances; e.g., which historical practices are we talking about, is the practitioner new to Hellenic polytheism, etc.? Additionally, even as a speculative reconstructionist, there are relatively few ancient Greek practices I believe modern worshippers must adhere to.

I’ll provide a few case examples to better demonstrate my beliefs.

For instance, if we’re talking about ritual cleanliness, I think every Hellenic polytheist who knows that the ancient Greeks washed their hands before approaching the gods should adhere to that religious protocol.

“And do not ever pour a libation of gleaming wine at dawn to Zeus or the other immortals with unwashed hands; for they do not listen, but spurn the prayers” (Hesiod, Works and Days, 724 – 6).

If someone doesn’t know about it, then I wouldn’t expect them to practice ritual handwashing; but as soon as they learn about it, the expectation would be that they incorporate it into their worship.

My feelings are virtually the same when it comes to upholding kharis (reciprocity) and xenia (hospitality). Together, they make up the foundation of ancient Greek religion, so as modern Hellenic polytheists, it’s up to us to uphold and maintain the integrity of those principles. Worshippers who don’t yet know about kharis or xenia should be educated on these virtues by their peers so they can easily adopt them.

When it comes to giving modern offerings vs. traditional ones, I firmly believe that one is no better or more legitimate than the other. Ultimately, we are all giving gifts to the gods, so it doesn’t matter if it’s holy frankincense or a My Little Pony figurine; what matters is that the offeror is pious. Unless someone’s giving the gods their human bodily omissions, all offerings should be presumed faultless.

Similarly, I am staunch in my belief that a worshipper’s prayers are of no concern to an outside observer. If they’re not a guest praying for the downfall of a gracious host, then we should mind ourselves and our prayers.

Lastly, I would never try and regulate a person’s personal pantheon. If someone worships the Panhellenic instantiations of the gods over their various epithets, that’s perfectly OK. Ideally, I think Hellenic polytheists should know about epithets, but I doubly think their use is optional.

If you (or anyone else) have any clarifying questions, feel free to send me another ask or a message! I really hope I was able to provide you a satisfying answer. :)

[thatdeathwitch]

I don’t wanna look stupid, but I am genuinely wanting some input here.

So like the first deity’s I started to worship are Persephone and haides. I love them to bits, they are awesome and I’ve seen them in 1 or 2 dreams and a couple times in meditation: (I’ve been worshiping them for what I would want to say is 7 or 8 months.)

I can never really feel their presence when I meditate with them or when I light a candle for them.

Apollon on the other hand who I just started worshiping I can feel his energy, I vibe with him. I love it 🥰

But this makes me sad because I wish I had that with Persephone and haides. 🥲

Am I doing something wrong or am I looking too much into this? Any advice would be appreciated!

Khaire, friend! I greatly appreciate your coming to me for guidance, though I don’t know how useful it’ll be.

Personally, I don’t light candles and meditate with the gods. Many worshippers do, but I don’t. :0

Instead, when I’m going through the ritual motions, I watch for signs that indicate the god’s presence and if They’ve accepted (or rejected) the offerings given.

For example, the smoke that comes from burning incense can clue me into the feelings of the divine. If the smoke travels skyward, the gods are present, and They’ve accepted the offering. If the smoke travels horizontally or downward*, I’ll know They’ve rejected it. (*Unless the incense is a gift to the Underworld gods. In that case, downflowing smoke spells approval.)

If I’m not burning incense but instead pouring libations or singing prayers, I look for more abstract clues. For instance, I pour libations to the deathless gods every morning and evening. Whenever I perform these daily rites, I’m left feeling generally happy, peaceful, fulfilled, etc. These positive feelings indicate the god’s presence and acceptance! If I don’t feel any particular way afterward, I’ll use divination to see whether or not They accepted it.

When it comes to Haides specifically, I never expect to feel the full force of His presence. I’m a living mortal, and He is the invisible god of the dead. Additionally, the instantiation of Haides I worship doesn’t participate in the cycle of reciprocity. As such, His attention is never expected or demanded.

Persephone (unlike Haides) does participate in the cycle of reciprocity, so the attention She allots is more consistent. I know Her to be an incredibly attentive goddess, so if you petition Her, I imagine She’ll answer.

[thatdeathwitch]

Can we like, stop making Hades out to be a bad guy in Greek myth and zues to be a good guy. Honestly Hades is like not even evil in most Greek iterations. Zues is the one who fucked everyone and caused issues. Zues is the fuckup, Hades mostly just wanted a wife. And in most iterations she willingly went no trickery and willingly wanted to stay. And after thousands of years Demeter is still upset about it. Persephone willingly stayed Hades isn't evil, and neither is the location known by the same name.

[thatdeathwitch]

the Gods are alive and breathing. you can reach out and feel their pulse, if you're willing to take the risk.

[thatdeathwitch]

I wonder if Helpols who hate Zeus legitimately think they will have prosperous households

[thatdeathwitch]

My Thargelia celebration from this weekend. May the gods bless us with bountiful harvest, and ensure all in our communities have enough to eat.

[thatdeathwitch]

🏺 Hero worship 101 - The basics

Hero worship is the veneration and worship of a hero. This is done to receive guidance, protection, teach, and to possibly appease a gruesome death. While heroes (ignore if they became a god; Herakles for example) cannot give us godly blessings, they can teach us about worship, devotion, humanity, etc. Hero worship is akin to ancestor worship in a way. These heroes are immortalised in death and therefore we can be guided by them. Here’s an easy guide (with resources!) on how to begin worshipping some cool dead people.

Essentially,

Worship to receive guidance, protection, lessons, etc.

Specifically, hero worship must include someone who is dead 

Hero worship is Khthonic (Chthonic), unless stated otherwise.

When worshipping a Hero-God, the worship is only chthonic if you’re honouring their mortal, hero part. If not, it’s Ouranic.

Though, there is one hero god who breaks all the rules. I love him with all my heart and soul. It’s his thing to break the rules. Dionysus is a hero-god who is a hero despite being godly. Love him <3

Types of heroes 

Oikist founders; heroes who founded a city or people (ex: Kadmos)

Named; Panhellenic heroes (ex: Iliad/Odyssey Heroes)

Local Heroes 

Oracular heroes (not oracles, but people who died in extremely unusual ways)

How does it work?

Hero worship functions because by worshipping them, we “breathe” life into them. Through our libations and offerings, our great heroes become alive. We can invoke them and receive guidance from them. Traditional offerings and how to invoke them will come later.

Hero worship is usually tied to their tomb or grave, however for most of us this isn’t possible. For example, I worship Achilles and Patroclus, and they’re said to be buried together in a urn on modern day Snake Island in the Black Sea. Thankfully, constructing an altar/shrine is more than enough.

Another aspect of hero worship is the construction of a borthos* (plural: Brothoi). This is a hole in the ground constructed to put their offerings in, especially since libations are the biggest offerings in hero worship. These are constructed outside, and away from society. For reasons that contacting the dead is meant to happen away from society, and that having a hole in your house is a tripping hazard. It’s just inconvenient. Essentially: Borthoi are used for contacting heroes themselves.

Borthoi are meant to be in an orchard, vineyard, in a private garden, crossroads, etc. Generally any space that’s private and away from society. By private garden, you can have one in your backyard. Plus, then people won’t see you pouring wine in a dirt hole.

Hero Cultus Terminology 

Enagizen* - a) consecrated burning; b) to devote to the dead, and so make taboo, or untouchable especially for sacrifices to the gods. Though, note this only found in roman texts in this context 

Enagizen* - great sacrifices to heroes, usually used to avoid dangerous situations by invoking the hero for protection. Exclusively Hellenistic term.

Enagisterion - a place for offerings to the dead, in the past was usually the sacrifice of a bull, though note this is only found in Roman Texts.

Enagisma - Offerings given to the dead at a funeral or tomb of a dead person or hero 

Enagismos - sacrifices both to heroes and to the dead, though note this is only found in roman texts 

Enagismata - those offerings made to the dead, which thereby become polluted or anosios to the gods; distinctive festival days, when sacrifice is made to the dead, as on a feast day when sacrifice is made to a hero, and so the offering is made taboo; see enagizen. 

Epitaphios agon - funeral games for a deceased hero 

Bothros - hole, trench, or pit dug in the ground is a hollow ritual pit for offerings to the subterranean gods (chthonic) or heroes. These can be used to invoke the Chthonic gods or heroes. 

Tldr; Heroes are great and they’re here to guide/protect/teach us. Shrine good, get a hole in the ground, and vibe.

Further reading and resources!

My google doc on it

https://docs.google.com/document/d/18Fh3PZgj58qfX9WZOgDbMgF5Mh_KvXnJ7qBKOO_hZ2s/edit

Further reading and resources:

https://uh.edu/~cldue/3307/herocults.html

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_hero_cult

Study on hero cultus, 100% recommend

http://web.philo.ulg.ac.be/kernos/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2015/03/KS12_Ekroth.pdf

Terminology:

https://books.openedition.org/pulg/501?lang=en

For funerary practices:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Greek_funeral_and_burial_practices

- Adrian Dionysoniketes, Adri_Le_Chat

[thatdeathwitch]

Crawling out of my cave to share this illustration of the "Virgin Goddesses" from Greek and Roman Mythology (Hestia/Vesta, Athena/Minerva, & Artemis/Diana)

Originally created for the @aspeczine!

[thatdeathwitch]

On Helpol tumblr there has been some discourse on the worship of Ares and it is completely justified for a personal practice why someone would not honour him. However, though, I would enjoy to bring up points from history on a reconstruction angle on why to worship Ares. I appreciate the critical examination into who and what we worship—we should be more critical of stately portrayals of the divine and understand ancient politics less we reconstruct something wretched. These points are sourced from Cults and sanctuaries of Ares and Enyalios: A survey of the literary, epigraphic, and archaeological evidence by Matthew Paul Gonzales.

It is deeply historically attested, for anyone thinking that it was not. The anti-Ares classical sentiment can be traced back to WWII for reasons that do not need explaining. The emphasis on his pathetic myths also partially stem from this.

Ares was and is deeply concerned with justice and Dike is described as his lead. He is shown as the blood vengeance in particular, which still does have modern importance—many of us endorse the guillotine. This could inspire modern worshippers to take to action for causes to support good, justice, and love in their communities. Love and war, mayhaps?

He is also connected to peace and restraining violence alongside war-like desires. This is depicted in the homeric hymnal.

Ares is also close to defending land, especially that of floral and agricultural bounty: he is often positioned with fertility goddesses, such as Aphrodite, Despoina, and Cybele.

He is a vengeful protector, when people are wronged or land is stolen and waged against. Athens used this for defending their land—chaining Ares to the land meanings bringing in his power to serve you and your land’s interests. I do not endorse the usage of this to support oppressive regimes, but it could be adapted in a more liberation focused fashion.

Through Ares, some facets of prosperity is given, and I do not take it as a coincidence he is paired with Athena, who directs while Ares rushes.

Worship is also used to avoid conditions; Apollon to keep the plague away, Ares to keep war and strife away, such as his homeric hymn entails.

Courage is also stated to be a condition he gifts.

Lastly, I find it of vast importance to establish modern ideas of gods that are honest to the historical record and finds fluidity in them. Gods can change and they can be discussed with. Perhaps this is my Roman pagan influences, but we can influence and argue with the gods on points we believe in—for justice and ultimate good, as Zeus does mandate divine justice. We can show Ares, more than he already knows and has, the importance of supporting the revolutionary, and we can invoke his power in fighting for the sovereignty of nature. I am also personally fond of the feminist interpretations of him, and while not likely accurate to history, we should be adapting and developing with the gods in the modern period. Ares as a symbol of violently defending women against patriarchy is ripe for expression and movement, though not without due issues.

We should be striving towards ultimate good and Ares’ power in the modern era, with a modern lens, can continue to give weight to this pursuit. If he can encourage us and take a stand against the machismo ideas of “spartan” ideals that dudebros often have, we can make beneficial cultural changes. The gods do not just belong to history, they are history, and Historia is here to inspire and defeat us at every turn. 

I will say my dea Bellona is more of the historical revolution divinity that people want. She has a lot more of the epigraphic record to support this, but nonetheless, there are many reasons to honour Ares outside of war. Especially in his connections to nature and fertility, which strikes my heart happily as a sustainable agriculturalist. If it is Ares that can motivate more Hellenic pagans to embrace liberation and revolutionary ideas, that is something to preserve.

And regardless, if I can worship Ker without expecting much benefit, we can easily worship a god that is not literal murder.