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Ah I haven't read these interviews in a long time. So much great stuff here about Matt, Karen, and Foggy, and their relationships with one another going into season 3. We really had the trio for all time in the OG show. There's some quotes from DAW in this interview re Karen that I think are particularly interesting.

On Karen's backstory: "please don't say I shot someone to save a bus load of kids. I want whatever happened to have been my fault. This isn't a story about misplaced guilt, it's a story about forgiveness and acceptance."

On Karen and Matt's relationship in season 2: "....She avoids honest connection. That's part of why the relationship with Matt couldn't work in season 2. Because neither of them were being honest with each other about who they really were."

"Does Karen trust anybody?"

"Foggy."

"A lot of people have linked Karen automatically as a romantic interest..."

DAW: "Well, I might argue that I wasn't a love interest in seasons 1 and 2. Look, romantic stories are incredibly fun to play...but all of the romance I've gotten to play...whether that's Frank or Matt, they all come from a need...So the relationship is deeper than just storytelling romance. With Matt gone...she'll need to find out whether she is worthy of love without having to find it through him. Can she discover that she is valuable without having to find that in a romantic partner?"

On her relationship with Foggy: "Foggy is about consistency. If Matt and Karen - who are the most inconsistent, wild, reckless people who exist - didn't have Foggy, nothing would get done. So I think he provides security and safety and support for Karen. You asked if there is anybody she could trust, I think he would be that one person."

I don't engage with a lot of Karen discourse on the internet because I find most of it tends to boil down to who people would rather see her kiss on the show, and I find that incredibly exhausting and reductive. DAW has made several such statements in the past re Karen and her relationships with Matt and Frank, and how people tend to reduce her character down to primarily that of a love interest. Karen doesn't need to be attached to either Matt OR Frank. She is a character in her own right, and has a place in the story beyond that of just "love interest."

I like that she emphasized in this interview that it was both Matt AND Karen's secret keeping in season 2 that was problematic for their burgeoning relationship. There are still too many people who believe that Elektra was the primary cause of their break up in season 2. Elektra was the in story cause, but even if Elektra and the Hand storyline didn't exist, Matt and Karen still would have broken up, because neither of them were being their authentic selves with one another.

Matt and Karen are BOTH avoidant attachment styles. Their primary issues are really the same. They both have a pathological fear of intimacy and honesty due to their backgrounds, and both tend to lash out/run away/deflect when faced with their fears. In this same interview, DAW compares Karen to Frank, Karen to Matt, and Matt to Frank. All three are really the same for the purposes of the story. Karen has an affinity for both men, because she sees herself in both of them.

It frustrates me to no end that any time Karen is brought up, the question anyone seems to ask is, "who should she end up with in the story?" As if that's her only reason for existing in the show, or if that's her primary motivation or character arc. Karen is one of the most interesting women Marvel TV ever wrote, and yet people STILL miss the point of her. Her character arc is the same as Matt's. To go from a state of isolation and fear to a state of purpose and belonging. To go from a state of secrecy to a state of being known and loved with her chosen family, Matt and Foggy.

The OG show got her EXACTLY right. I harp on this all of the time, but the ending of season 3 was the MOST important scene in the entire show. Matt, Karen, and Foggy have all completed their primary character arcs and have "come out" on the other side with a greater love and understanding and appreciation for one another. They each understand that they need one another, and are stronger together than they are apart. That last shot with them sitting around the table together is important. No one relationship is highlighted, no one is considered above any of the others. There is no confirmed romance, it's all subtext and left open to the viewer's interpretation. To have Matt and Karen together at the end of the story would have been the wrong move, (one that the original show didn't make.) Because it would have turned it from "Nelson, Murdock and Page" to "Murdock and Page, oh and Foggy is there too."

Karen and Foggy's relationship is VITAL to Karen, and it kills me that it was completely ignored in DDBA. Foggy was Karen's best friend and brother, the one person that she relied on, more than she relied on Matt. Why do we not see any of her grief? (I mean, we BARELY see Matt's, so...)

If I had a wish list for Karen for season 2 of DDBA, it would be to give her her own story and plot line, independent of Matt and Frank. Give me a Karen who is hell bent on revenge against the Fisks for Foggy's murder. There is no doubt in my mind that Karen wouldn't rest until she made Vanessa pay for ordering the hit on Foggy.

My preferred story ending for Karen? Let her be happy, and let her remain independent. Like DAW states in this interview, Karen doesn't need to be romantically entangled with a man in this story in order to find happiness, and worth, and value in herself or her place in the narrative. I think that happiness, for both Karen AND Matt, would look to them exactly as it is at the end of season 3, with the Fisks behind bars, Foggy there, and NM&P restored.

"Karen is a profoundly lonely person. She avoids honest connection. That’s part of why the relationship with Matt couldn’t work in season 2. Because neither of them were being honest with each other about who they really were. [T]here is clearly attraction here but these are not people who are ready to open up."

"Really and truly kept people at a distance, particularly the people he cares the most about. Ostensibly, it’s because he wants them to be safe. [...] The truth of it is that he hasn’t had the ability to go to that next level of vulnerability with anyone, particularly with Karen. And that fear is so great that he has found excuses to prevent it from ever being a reality."

--Deborah Ann Woll on Daredevil Season 3 (Collider)

--Charlie Cox on Daredevil Season 3 (Collider)

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It's a feeling emo over Nelson V Murdock college flashbacks kind of night

The way it's the happiest Matt ever is in the show and it's entirely because of Foggy

Foggy making Matt laugh with abandon

Foggy laughing with abandon

How comfortable they are physically

When Matt trips Foggy with his cane

Matt opening up about his dad

Foggy knowing just how important that conversation is to Matt and reacting accordingly

And some of the best drunk acting ever put on my tv screen (impressively accurate drunk line delivery from Elden, 10 out of 10)

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Part II of my Foggy Nelson is bisexual, queer coding in Daredevil character analysis (there will be a part 3 because I cannot stop yapping about this man.)

Foggy presents as much less stereotypically masculine than other male characters in the show, and that's part of the queer coding. It's nothing overt, but all of the little instances add up. The most obvious ones are his long hair and his more colorful wardrobe. (Although I wish his wardrobe was MORE colorful.) I think if the original show came out today, they could've done more with this aspect of Foggy's personality. I could see him wearing nail polish, maybe, or sporting more patterned clothes. But, I 100% KNOW that Foggy had an earring in college, like, no doubt in my mind. There are some statements made by Foggy and by others about him that imply that he has a fondness for nice things, particularly nice clothes. I think this may have been a call back to comics Foggy, who is a lot more fussy than show Foggy. (I wanted to see show Foggy in a bow tie SO BADLY.)

Again, masculine/feminine coding has nothing to do with a character's canon sex/gender. Probably the most famous example of a feminine coded male character in recent media is Peeta Mellark from the Hunger Games. Peeta is the typical movie girlfriend to Katniss' typical action hero. Their roles are subverted because Katniss is a woman and Peeta is a man. There are actually quite a few similarities between Foggy and Peeta, but that's a whole other post. Coding a male character with female traits doesn't automatically make a character queer coded, but almost all queer coding subverts typical gender expectations in some way. For Foggy, the fact that his characterization subverts typical male traits and the parts where it is outright stated or implied that he is attracted to men make me think that it was 100% intentional on the part of the writers.

I think that Foggy's canon love interest, Marci Stahl, is more evidence for the Foggy is Bisexual Theory, despite the fact that it is an opposite gender relationship. Marci is the opposite of Foggy. She is a female character who is EXTREMELY masculine coded. I LOVE Marci, and I could write an entire essay on just the subtext in her and Foggy's relationship. Marci Stahl could be EASILY genderbent to be Mark Stahl, and NOTHING about her personality or her relationship with Foggy would change, she's that male coded. Isn't that interesting? Just for the sake of this post, I'll focus on only one scene of their's, because the subtext is peak, and it tells us so much about their dynamic, and about Foggy's dynamic with other people, and that's the aftermath of their initial sex scene in season 1.

So we don't see the actual sex, just the morning after. Foggy is lying naked in bed, with the sheet pulled up to his chest, staring at the ceiling. He just found out about Matt the night before, and he's clearly distraught. Marci is 100% depicted as the aggressor/initiator in their relationship, roles that we typically see in men. She is the one who shows overt sexual interest in Foggy and pursues him. In this scene, Foggy is lying prone in the passive position, while Marci mills around him getting ready for work. Foggy is clearly upset and Marci is unbothered. She tells Foggy that she doesn't care to hear about his and Matt's relationship issues. She leans over him in bed while she is clothed and he is naked. She tells him things like "you were actually really good last night." (She's negging him.) The implication that she is the dominant partner isn't even subtext, it's TEXT. Not only is Marci depicted in the typically masculine role, she's coded to a very specific trope that we usually associate for male characters, that of the douchebag ex who only uses you for sex. You've probably seen this exact scene played out a dozen times in TV shows and movies, but very rarely would you see the typical male/female roles subverted like this.

Foggy's primary character arc in the show is to go from a state of passivity/inertia to a state of agency and independence. In order to do that, he must learn to stand on his own two feet and trust himself and his instincts, not be led by his two more dominant partners, Matt and Marci. In season 3 he has accomplished this character growth and he and Marci have a VERY different type of sex scene to cue to the audience that Foggy has changed. In that scene, Foggy is the aggressor/initiator, and Marci is the one who is in the more passive role.

I have a part III of this where I talk about comics Foggy, and why I think that Marvel should just let him come out of the closet already.

Anyway, all hail our bisexual king Foggy Nelson.

Edit: I can't believe that I forgot to talk about Foggy's love of dancing! Another character trait of his that doesn't fit into the Stereotypical American Male (TM) persona. I love that scene where he and Matt are walking to work and he's trying to convince Matt to go out salsa dancing with him 😭

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Come on jazz hands.

A few weeks ago I made a long rambling post about Matt's Catholicism and Fanon interpretations of Matt's perceived bisexuality. I really, really wanted to talk about Foggy in that post (I always want to talk about Foggy) but those thoughts deserved their own post. So here it is, the Foggy Nelson is Bisexual, queer coding in Daredevil post that nobody asked for.

I wanted to do more research for this post, because I KNOW there are more examples of queer coding and tropes used in the show, but I'm going to be honest, I didn't have time to go back and rewatch all of the episodes/scenes, and I really really wanted to get these thoughts out of my brain and onto the internet. So ppl are welcome to add their own interpretations/examples onto this one.

So, let's talk about queer coding in Daredevil and how it relates to Foggy Nelson, who, imo, is one of the only characters in the show to be implicitly coded as bisexual/not straight. Honorable mention goes to Wesley, who I think was 100% gay and in love with Fisk. RIP Wesley, you were a great character, but this post isn't about you, its about my beloved, Franklin Nelson.

So to start off, there are no openly queer characters in Daredevil, which I have some thoughts and feelings about. As I mentioned above, I do think that Wesley was intentionally written as gay, but its never outright stated. It's probably a good thing that Wesley was never confirmed to be gay, because there is a lot of valid criticism about the tendency to queer code villains specifically, the "all villains are queer and all queers are villains" trope. In a lot of ways, the OG Daredevil show was a product of its time. The concept of seeing an openly queer main character in a mainline TV show (not to mention a superhero genre show) would have been pretty radical when Daredevil first aired in 2015. I think the context of the show is important when it comes to Foggy. The examples of queer coding for Foggy are pretty covert. It's not even a nudge and a wink, it's more like a subtle glance.

The entire basis of queer coding is what's implied in the margins. Maintaining plausible deniability is the whole point of "coding" a character. Coding, especially queer coding, is also based on stereotypes. It goes without saying that you can't know a person's sexuality based on the way that they dress, the music they like, etc when it comes to IRL people, but in media, these things are written intentionally in order to give the audience insight into a character's inner world.

So let's talk about Foggy. Many, many, people read Foggy as queer when he first graced our screens in 2015, including me. At the beginning of the first season, there wasn't really any "evidence" to point to for this interpretation, other than vibes and my own intuition. I actually remember turning to my husband during the opening scene with Matt and Foggy and going "holy shit, they made Foggy gay. That's so progressive of them!" (Lmao.) Foggy was instantly recognizable to me as every single gay theater friend I had growing up who came out later in life, in college and young adult hood. I knew, and still know SO many people exactly like Foggy: extremely extroverted, vivacious, intelligent, flamboyant, personable people with a flair for the dramatic, and they are all some flavor of queer. I KNOW Foggy did theater and speech and debate in high school, like, no question.

Obviously Foggy in the show is attracted to women and has a relationship with Marci, so, bisexual, not gay. Everyone knows the "you're just a guy right? A really, really good-looking guy," complete with Foggy very obviously checking Matt out. That's not the only time Foggy mentions the attractiveness of other men, either. The other most notable example being when he calls Frank good looking at his trial.

A person being "a fan of the theater" is just about the most coded phrase/personality trait you can give a character to hint to the audience that the character is queer. Being a lover of theater, see also, a "patron of the arts" has been a thing for a long, long, time, and its basically synonymous with calling someone gay when you really dont want to come right out and say it. Foggy is referenced as liking theater/musical theater a few different times, all of them subtle. The above "jazz hands" gif is one. The other main one is when he is singing a song from the Pirates of Penzance musical when he and Karen have their bonding drinking night at Josie's. (On that note, I'm convinced that Karen is so surprised when Mrs. Cardenas asks her if her and Foggy are dating because she assumes Foggy is gay. She looks completely shocked. And her vibe when her and Foggy are hanging out at Josies is that she is out with one of the girls. I think she assumed Foggy was gay and maybe in the closet, or else that he dated Marci before he came out. Her body language early on around Foggy is also very telling. She is very open and touchy with him in a non-sexual way, not at all how she is around Matt, which is much more reserved. As a woman the same age as Karen, I would only act this way around an adult man I barely knew if I was extremely confident that he was in no way sexually attracted to me. She def thought he was gay, and thus safe.)

Another thing about Karen and Foggy's Josie's scene which is sort of a "blink and you'll miss it" is when Foggy is convincing Karen to drink the eel at Josie's. He says something to the effect of "I myself have drunk the eel one too many nights, and unfortunately, that is not a euphemism." Um?? A euphemism for WHAT?!? Did Foggy Nelson just make a joke about sucking a dick in a Daredevil show??

In my earlier post about Matt, I said that Matt Murdock is the very definition of a masculine coded character. When I use terms like masculine/feminine coded, I'm not talking about the character's stated sex or gender, but about coding and tropes (remember these are not real ppl, they were created in the writers' imaginations.) I bring up Matt because he and Foggy are introduced to the audience together, as a bonded pair, and in order to understand Foggy, you have to understand Matt.

Foggy is coded as the "feminine" counterpart to Matt's masculine. Whereas Matt is stoic, Foggy is emotionally effusive. Matt is impulsive and brash, Foggy begs him to use restraint and to think of his safety. Matt uses his fists and violence to solve problems, and Foggy uses his brain and his words. Matt is aggressive and assertive, and Foggy is passive and non-action oriented. Matt, especially in season 1, is portrayed as the "doer" of their relationship. The one who takes action, who pushes them forward, the de facto leader of their partnership. He is the one who convinces Foggy to leave L&Z and start their own firm. He is the one who convinces Foggy to take on Karen and Frank Castle as clients, despite Foggy's initial reluctance. The pattern of their relationship, right up until their break up in season 2 is one where Matt leads and Foggy follows. Foggy's main character arc in the show is to break out of Matt's shadow and establish himself as his own person, apart from Matt, which he does. When they do come back together at the end of season 3, its on more equal footing, as true partners.

Foggy is associated with water imagery throughout the show (thanks to @alizelavasseur for being the one to point that out to me) and water and moon symbolism have always been associated with femininity and femaleness, whereas fire and sun symbolism (Matt) have always been associated with masculinity and maleness. Water symbolism also typically signifies a character who is in tune with their emotions, is empathetic, and connected to others. Foggy is the most emotionally aware person in DD, and he is the one who is most connected to the community of HK. A professor of mine in college said that a good rule of thumb to determine masculine/feminine coding, is to imagine the character in question cooking or baking a meal for others as a caretaking task. Cooking/baking for others is considered the height of feminine caretaking. Matt is a defender/protector of others. He'd punch out a guy who was hassling you on the subway, but baking you muffins? Yeah, can't see it. Foggy Nelson on the other hand? That guy is baking you muffins AND giving you Anna Nelson's home recipes. In fact, Foggy is explicitly shown as being a community caretaker, in a much different way than Matt is. He is the one who fixes Mrs. Cardenas' sink while Matt is out beating ppl up (Matt's version of community caretaking.) Foggy's main superpowers are his mouth (not like that you perverts, I'm talking about his communication skills), and his empathy, traits we usually associate with women. He talks the criminals out of beating each other up in the hospital, he talks his way out of a pretty brutal beatdown at the Dogs of Hell bar. Foggy is NOT a fighter, he is a lover/talker/caretaker.

The world of Hell's Kitchen that the show created is a very dark, violent, grim place, where gangs and sex traffickers run rampant. Every single main character that we are introduced to in season one has had to adapt to this violent reality. Brett Mahoney is a grouchy cop. Ben Urich is a hardened and cynical reporter. We already know Matt's got issues. Karen, too, fits seamlessly into this dark world with her mysterious past and her bloodied hands. And then there's Foggy, who grew up in HK same as Matt, but is bright and bubbly and cheerful, who wakes Matt up in the morning by going "good morning sunshine!" Is it any wonder that sad, lonely, damaged people like Matt and Karen are drawn to him? This show could have very easily made Foggy a "lesser Matt," a character like Matt only less smart, less strong, more like a typical sidekick/hero's best friend, but instead, they completely subverted audience expectations.

I'm not done, there is a part II, and will probably be a part III to this. Turns out I have a lot to say about Foggy! Who knew!

@giftober 2024 | Day 24: "Summer Time" Daredevil Season 2 Episode 06 - Regrets Only

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Me, an adult: people should feel free to talk about characters in media, their flaws and mistakes, in a respectful manner with other fans without being accused of "villainizing" or hating on characters. Characters are meant to be analyzed and discussed. They are not real people with real feelings, so there are no consequences for loving, hating, liking, disliking, agreeing, or not agreeing with their choices or the way that they are written. Flaws make fictional characters interesting, and without them, stories would be boring. Discussion and analysis is what makes fandom fun and robust. If everyone agreed with every interpretation, fandom would be an echo chamber, and there would be no point in discussing anything on the internet.

Also me: Foggy Nelson is my princess, and he's never done anything wrong ever in his entire life, and if anyone disagrees with me I will personally scratch their eyes out and then cry.

So I guess you could say I see both sides.

DAREDEVIL REWATCH 1x3 — “Rabbit in a Snowstorm”

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More Daredevil x textposts

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Listen, I love sad, pathetic, manbaby Matt Murdock as much as the next person, but quite frankly he has had a chokehold on this fandom for far too long. I blame season 3 primarily for this depiction since that's Matt at his lowest and most vulnerable point and until recently, that was the most recent Matt Murdock that we got, so it makes sense. But I'm glad to see cocky, angry, asshole Matt with a chip on his shoulder come back in Born Again, because THAT is Matt's default mode when he isn't Going Through It (tm). I think Charlie Cox plays Matt with a lot of depth and layers and he most definitely isn't ONLY a cocky, smug asshole, but that's canonically the biggest part of his personality. I think a lot of people come into the DD fandom and are fooled by Charlie Cox's soulful eyes and cinnamon roll personality and think that Matt is like that too. Matt does have moments where he can be very soft, but what makes those moments special is that they are pretty rare. Matt Murdock the character is 100% a confident, sarcastic, assertive, and aggressive bruiser, with rage issues so severe he has to go out at night and beat up people he's never met. It's the juxtaposition between the way he looks on the surface (mild mannered ivy league educated disabled attorney) and his true personality that makes him so interesting. You THINK that he's going to be a pitiful wet cat, and it turns out he's actually a German Shepherd straining at his leash.

Cocky and smug Matthew is a top tier genre of Matthew 😩

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I had some free time the past couple of days so I decided to rewatch a few episodes of DDBA. Now that it's been a few months, I was like, why not give it another chance? Perhaps my anger over the treatment of Foggy unjustly colored my perception of the show, and it's not actually as bad as I remember.

Lmao. Nope. It's just as bad as I remember. How did Disney manage to make a show about Foggy's DEATH and Matt Murdock losing literally everything important to him so BORING?? Barely anything happens in 9 episodes. Across the entire season, there's maybe a handful of scenes which were genuinely emotionally impactful. Fisk is a complete nonentity. Even when impactful things DO happen, their effect is completely ignored or discarded, so it ends up going nowhere. Matt is shot in one episode, and then in the next scene he just walks it off. Poindexter escapes from prison, and then he just disappears and nobody, including Matt, cares. Vanessa is revealed to be the one behind Foggy's murder, and her involvement is treated like a complete afterthought. Karen leaves and comes back, and Matt's response is "I'm glad you're back." Even for non-emotionally effusive Matt Murdock, that's a bit weak.

Things just happen around Matt, and he barely reacts. The one episode where he shows any sort of agency or resolve is the bank heist episode. No wonder ppl like that episode so much. The show tries to say that his inertia is his grief response to Foggy's death, which sort of works, if you squint, and also happen to disregard Matt's entire previous characterization. But I appreciate the effort to at least sort of explain this weirdness.

The only glimpse the audience ever gets into Matt's emotional state is when he makes sad faces at Frank Castle when Frank mentions Foggy, when he makes mad faces at Heather when she mentions Foggy, and when he makes sad faces at Foggy's funeral card. It's fitting that that's when the audience gets a peek behind the curtain, but it's also weird since we never got to see any of Matt's initial grief.

I hated episode 9 when I first watched it, and yep, I still hate it, and I maintain that episode 8 should have been the finale. If they weren't going to DO anything with Karen's return, why have her come back? I think it would have been better to have her come back in episode 1 of season 2, rather than write an entirely new episode around her return, where she doesn't actually do anything or affect the story in any way.

This show ended 2.5 months ago, and the ONLY discourse I see online is speculation about Foggy, spoilers for season 2, and shipping discourse, but even that's kind of weak since DDBA didn't really offer anything substantial in that dept either. Isn't it kind of ironic that at the end of season 1, Fisk is depicted as the MOST powerful he's ever been, he has NYC under his complete control, we watched him squeeze a man's head like a grape, and just....crickets. Nobody cares! The show didn't MAKE us care. Fisk is boring now. I would say to move over for Vanessa but...the show really failed to establish her as a substantial villain too.

The only thing anyone cares about is Foggy, and he's the one character that everyone in the production has gone out of their way to shit on at every opportunity. Long con or just stupidity? I don't know, time will tell I guess, but like...this show should have been better. Season 2 of Daredevil had some flaws, but no one could say that it at least wasn't entertaining.

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It’s an odd combination and incredibly niche but it makes sense to me I swear- spoilers for both Daredevil: Born Again and Xenoblade Chronicles 1 below:

.

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So I’m listening to Jake Steinberg’s playthrough and literary analysis of Xenoblade Chronicles on youtube (he does a fantastic job of deconstructing my favourite game, I do highly recommend if anyone is at least a little bit interested) and I can’t help but make these connections between Xenoblade’s treatment of major character deaths against Daredevil: Born Again’s treatment of Foggy’s character.

Of course any comparison can be made between one treatment of a character death versus another, but with Born Again heavy on my mind, Jake S.‘s particular breakdown of Fiora’s “death” in Xenoblade Chronicles is what really got me:

“When I started playing this game, I was very worried of this thing that happens in stories sometimes called fridging […] And I was worried that [Fiora’s] death was being used in that way. But they do a lot with her in a short amount of time. This character doesn’t just exist to die.

“I don’t think that the point of her character is to help develop Shulk. I think you can tell when a character is that flat. I think you can tell when there is a lack of care.”

I’m paraphrasing bits here to help it sound a bit more coherent on text, but he sums up exactly how I feel Foggy was treated in Born Again. I can feel the flatness of his personality in Born Again. I can feel the lack of care by the creatives for his character. Foggy’s death was specifically engineered to serve as the catalyst to Matt’s development. As far as season 1 wants us to know, Foggy was just brought back to die. The writers could have Matt cry and wax poetic about his love for his best friend for the whole 9 episodes if they wanted to, but Foggy’s death isn’t worth any of that. The death is unworthy not just in terms of respect to the character and the source material, but the manufacturing of Foggy’s death and the scenes that build up to it / follow after it just can’t pay off that grief in a satisfying way because nothing was done with him to make the audience care. They just let Netflix and nostalgia do all the heavy lifting.

Another point made by Jake S. that I do think is relevant and actually interesting is his point about fake out deaths:

“When you kill a major character, the performance of the death is always so particular when it’s real. And when it’s a fake out, it is a little bit like other things are intruding upon that moment and trying to take some of the attention away.”

Foggy’s actual moment of death in Born Again is constantly getting curtained by other things going on in the scene. Never at any point is Foggy’s death at the very front and center or the sole focus of the story. We either get hints about the Fisk’s criminal empire, Matt’s struggle to hold back the devil, the question of why Bullseye was even out to get Foggy in the first place… I could go on, but Foggy’s death was never given the proper attention it deserved.

Whether this means it actually was a fake out, or the creatives really are just that incapable, I don’t know. But this has just been on my mind all day and I figured I might as well find a place to put it out for now.

anyway this whole rant I’ve just mashed out has probably already been thoroughly discussed to death by people who are more qualified and intelligent than me lol, but I just wanted to say something because it’s eating at me. I don’t think I’m on to anything, but I do think that video helped me articulate why I’m so angry at Born Again which helps haha.

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Remember when Matt Murdock was like "God, if he even exists, has forsaken me and life has no meaning. You should put me down like a dog." And then he cleared his sinuses with a Netipot and was like, "Nevermind, God is real and righteous and I'm his chosen weapon to vanquish evil. Mother, bring me someone I can beat up."

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countdown to the 'we love foggy' fan event: one week join in on july 10 (details here)

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Saving this post to whip out to people who say bUt HoW CoULd He hAvE SuRVivEd? Matt heard his heart stop!!!! Please stfu. If you have no problem with literally every single other character in the show surviving catastrophic injuries, then just admit you dont like Foggy. This is the MCU, where death is merely a plot device. Like Nobu said, "there is no such thing."

DDBA SEASON 2 SPOILERS WARNING!

Back before the final episode of season 1, I said my dream ep 9 would have a dream Foggy, a flashback Foggy, and then end with a cliffhanger alive Foggy.

I knew that wasn't really in the cards, but... what if that's season 2?

What if early in the season we get a dream/hallucination Foggy. Mid-season is flashback Foggy. And the cliffhanger is alive Foggy?

The only time someone flat out said Elden would be filming was a scooper in late March which lined up with the convention appearance cancelation almost immediately after. That was at the very end of filming block 1 (episodes 1 & 2). They also filmed a fight scene between Daredevil and Bullseye at Josie's bar at this same time period. Elden was growing out his beard and hair at the beginning of March. It was the right length to recreate his season 1 look (or a messier version of it). What would be a better time for Matt to hear Foggy talking to him, than at the scene of the crime?

The next time there was speculation he filmed was at the beginning of May, when Charlie was visibly clean-shaven and told press he filmed a 2015 flashback scene. Around the same time was hints from people visiting on-location sets that a Wesley scene in Vanessa's art gallery was being filmed (with a blood-free Rabbit in a Snowstorm). And then in mid-June, Elden appeared at a convention with a scruffy beard that could easily be about a month-and-a-half's worth of growth. This would have been the end of block 2 (episodes 3 & 4), confirmed also by Charlie in interviews as being exactly halfway done filming.

There are rules of three in writing and storytelling. We like and appreciate patterns, which are best established in threes. Stories have a beginning, a middle, and an end. Act I, Act II, Act III. In comedy, a joke will frequently repeat three times, with the third being unexpected, a rug-pull.

Foggy's appearance in season 2 is an unknown. But there are three main hypotheses that the fandom immediately latched on to: Dream/hallucination, Flashback, and Alive (which is still quickly dismissed by many as "too unrealistic").

And as we wait out the final week or two of filming, I have to wonder, will I get that third option I so desperately hoped would happen in episode 9? What's a bigger rug-pull than to reveal a character we watched die on screen is actually alive?

[the-whole-thing-through]

Controversial Daredevil opinion ahead...I didn't like Foggy with a beard in DDBA 😬😬😬 I KNOW. Elden Henson definitely rocks the full beard, and he looks objectively great in DDBA episode one, but Foggy, to me, should always be baby faced. His look in season 3 was his best look, by far.

I actually sort of have a reason for this beyond just personal preference. Matt and Foggy are the perfect example of the "complementary opposite partnership" trope that abounds in literature and media. They are alike in values, morals, and goals, but their personalities are complete opposite of one another, which is why their relationship/partnership dynamic works so well together. Their strengths and weaknesses contrast one another. They each have something vital that the other lacks. This dynamic is usually represented to the audience by the two characters being physical opposites of one another. If one is tall, the other is short. If one is dark, the other is fair, if one is bearded, the other is clean-shaven (you get it.) Think Aziraphale and Crowley. Or Holmes and Watson.

I've made a bunch of long, rambling Reddit posts about this very thing, but I'm positive that Matt and Foggy were inspired by Holmes and Watson, and they may in fact always have been intended to be the Marvel version of Holmes/Watson. Foggy, in particular, especially in a lot of the early Daredevil comics issues, I'm convinced is drawn on purpose to look like most media portrayals of John Watson that existed at that time, short, round, brunette, sometimes depicted with a mustache and/or sideburns, etc.

Holmes/Watson are the original complementary opposite partnership, and a lot of literary analysts think that ACD really defined and popularized the trope with them. One of the unspoken "rules" of all Holmes/Watson variant pairings that remains true across all forms of media is that Holmes and Watson MUST be physical opposites of one another. There is a lot of variation in what they look like, but the most important part is that they look completely different. Holmes is most typically depicted as being very tall, thin, stoop shouldered, dark hair, and clean shaven. Watson is most commonly depicted as being short, round, fair haired, and with his famous mustache. But again, their actual looks themselves are not the most important thing, as long as they are depicted as being physical opposites. A lot of modern Holmes/Watson variant pairings accomplish this by gender bending either Holmes or Watson, making one a different ethnicity, etc, and this is all fine and good.

Matt and Foggy are most definitely physical opposites, and Matt is always shown as having some sort of facial hair, either stubble, or the full beard he has in DDBA. Foggy should be clean shaven, or else they look too similar. They also should not dress similarly. I loved the way the OG show dressed them, it was so indicative of their personalities. Also, BRING BACK PINK SHIRT FOGGY. His wardrobe was the best it ever was in season 3, but he needed more color and more pizzazz. You cannot tell me that a man that went to theater camp wouldn't have a much more colorful wardrobe than what he has in the show. Foggy's fashion sense in the comics is pretty flamboyant. Let Foggy Nelson be his flamboyant self, and put this man in a bow tie!

Oh, and also, just bring him back.

Daredevil: ‘One Last Shot’ (3.12)

[the-whole-thing-through]

If Foggy is kicking it with Brett Mahoney in witpro right now and that's the reason Brett wasn't in season one I will LOSE IT. But this really does give me hope. Brett has always been linked to Foggy, his introduction in season 1 was through Foggy - they were prek3 besties! (Frenemies.) I love how Foggy is connected to M names - Matt Murdock, Mahoney, Marci - makes sense a teacher would sit them next to each other for alphabetical order!

Just like Matt and Foggy's introduction to the audience in the OG series was as a pair (their phone call with one another) Brett's introduction was as a pair with Foggy. Foggy is the person who links all of these people together in the OG show, the thread that binds them to eachother, and to Hell's Kitchen. Its very fitting that Matt moved out of Hell's Kitchen when he lost Foggy. It's not just because of his grief, but because Foggy really represents Hell's Kitchen in the show much more than Matt himself does. He's the one that has all of these community connections, who knows everyone in the Kitchen. This was a brilliant change that the writers did, making Foggy's background a working class HK background, rather than from wealth like it was in the comics.

I love Brett and Foggy's dynamic with each other so much. A big part of me is still cynical, but it also just feels like it would be TOO much to bring every single person back from the OG series and not Foggy. Right?

To add onto the Foggy Lives conpso...June has objectively been a terrible month for the Foggy Lives ship. That Charlie statement at that con, that interview with Dario, Elden's statements at that other con. The ship is basically sunk at this point. And then THIS leak? Yeah, I think it's on purpose.

Let's hope this actually means we'll see Brett Mahoney in DDBA, given that they for whatever reason used "Brett" as a codename for Arty Froushan's trailer when his character is Buck Cashman.

[the-whole-thing-through]

Scrolling through the Daredevil Main Tag Simulator

🧯 theefrattmultiiverse Follow

An Excerpt from the newest chapter of Bullet holes and Devil Horns

🔥💀🔥💀🔥

Matt kisses Frank tenderly, looking up at the larger man with wide beautifully pretty eyes

"Frankie, will you… p-protect me?"

Frank envelopes the smaller man in his hugemoungus big hands.

"Tch… of course I will, Red…"

🔥💀🔥💀🔥

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🎲 averagecomicgeek Follow

The black armor suit is so badass! Best DD design in my opinion. I hope we get to see it in live action!

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🎮 anothernormalcomicguy

I fucking HATE the black armor suit design so much. It’s hideous and doesn’t fit Daredevil as a character at all

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❤️‍🔥 wiener-without-fear Follow

The Devil of Your Heart

Matt Murdock x AFAB Girl Woman Reader

Matt Murdock fucks your vagina until you’re bred until pregnant

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🕸️spideymanspideyfan Follow

How does Matt Murdock wipe his ass after he poops 🤔🤔🤔 he’s like. Literally blind? Probably smthing to do with his heightened senses right?

#correct me if I’m wrong I’ve only seen one episode of DD and read Team Red fanfic lmao

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⏰ devilofhellslivingroom Follow

Does anyone else HATE Elektra? I literally have never seen anyone else talk about this ever? She’s literally an abuser?? And is actually Toxic?? Why is nobody speaking up?

#Elektra #Elektra Natchios #Elektra Assassin # Electra #Eletra #Lektrae #meta analysis

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🌞 sweetestsmolbean1993 Follow

I hate Elektra So Much it’s Unreal I’m so Glad She’s Dead and Gone Forever From the Show and Will Never Return. I’m So Glad She is Dead.

#Elektra #Elektra Natchios

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🎯 alwaysmissingbullseye

My Poor Baby… Why is everyone so mean to my Dexxy… look at him…

🧑🏼‍💼🔪

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🐚 karenpagedaily2

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💀 frankiecastle5ever

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🎀 sillygirlthoughts Follow

On ep 2 of Daredevil and OMFG Karen is SO ANNOYING! Like why is she lying ABOUT EVERYTHING?!

#is she like this in every episode?? #pmo #Here’s Hoping she d*es in Born Again 🤞

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🥑 avocadoatlawteehee888 Follow

Mattfoggy…

👱🏻‍♂️🧑🏻‍🦰

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🌌 poignantthinker Follow

Has anybody even realized how sad Matt's backstory is? His dad LITERALLY died?

#analysis #meta

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⚡️ marvelpostsmonthly Follow

NEW exclusive interview with actor Charlie Cox reveals he is "trapped in a green screen prison" and that Marvel Studios keeps him "hungry, thirsty, and totally alone" for hours on end while shooting.

♻️ 🤴🏻 charcoxhead745 Follow

Wow! It’s awesome to see how dedicated he is to playing Daredevil ☺️

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🧔🏽 mylambandmartyr Follow