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From Toei Hero MAX 56

Emu, the protagonist of this work, is a doctor-in-training and a genius gamer who fights to protect human lives and happiness, and Parad, the central figure of the Bugster, is a hostile force against humanity. It is shocking to discover that these two people, who started out in incompatible positions, are actually two sides of the same coin, their hearts beating as one.

Iijima Hiroki and Kai Shouma, who played the two characters, talk about the year of "Kamen Rider Ex-Aid".

パラドだけが知っていた永夢の秘密

Emu's secret that only Parad knew.

ーそもそもパラドが永夢の人格から分裂した存在だというのは、いつ頃知らされたんですか？

Interviewer: When did you first learn that Parad was split from Emu's personality?

実は前半のかなり早い段階で、僕が先にプロデューサーさんから聞いてたんです。でも、「まだ永夢には秘密にしておいて」と言われていて。そのほうが演じやすいという判断だったんですかね？

Kai: Actually, I heard about it from the producer first, very early in the first half. However, he told me, "Keep it a secret from Emu". Did they think it would be easier to play?

自分だけが秘密を知っているときに、何か意図して演じていたことなどは？

Interviewer: Was there anything you intended to do when you were the only one who knew the secret?

無理に永夢に寄せるようなことはしなかったんですけど、あとで「あっ、そういうことだったんだ」と思えるようには意識してましたね。いろいろ仕込みすぎて具体的に何をどうしたというのがパッと出てきませんけど、とりあえず「永夢のことがメッチャ好き」みたいな偏りは見せておこうかなと。

Kai: I didn't try to force the story to be about Emu, but I was conscious of the fact that I wanted the audience to be able to think "Oh, so that's what it was about." I put in so many things that it's hard to say exactly what I did, but for now, I thought I'd show a bias like "I love Emu a lot."

ー冬映画（『仮面ライダー平成ジェネレーションズDr.パックマン対エグゼイド＆ゴーストwithレジェンドライダー』）で、すでにその秘密が仕込まれてるので、本当に早くからですよね。

Interviewer: In the winter movie ("Kamen Rider Heisei Generations: Dr. Pac-Man vs. Ex-Aid & Ghost with Legendary Rider"), the secret is already planted, so it's really early.

なので、今あの映画を観ると、伏線だらけだったことがわかると思います。

Kai: So, if you watch that movie now, you can see that it was full of hints.

ー飯島さんが知ったのは？

Interviewer: How did Iijima-san find out about it?

僕もその映画の頃には。「ああ、そうなんだ〜」って。

Iijima: By the time of that movie, too. I was like "Oh, that's it~"

俺、知ってたけどね〜 (笑)。

Kai: I knew that (laughs).

10話で「ガシャットが欲しければ奪ってみろ」って他のドクターを煽る撮影のときは、本当にまだ知らなくてあのとき目が赤く光ったのも近くにパラドがいたからというのが今だとわかるんですけど、あんなに煽ったのは「そのほうが乗ってくれるかなー」ぐらいの考えだったんです。でも、そこでそれをやっちゃったんで、19話あたりからしばらくパラドに乗り移られてるときも、ゲームを楽しんでるというニュアンスは入れつつ、ちょっと怖い感じで演じることになって。どっちかといえば、パラドってもっと「ゲームやろうぜ〜ハハーン」みたいなノリじゃないですか（笑）。まぁ、視聴者にすぐバレちゃわないよう、似せすぎないようにしてたところもあるんですけど。

Iijima: In episode 10, when I was filming with the other doctors saying, "If you want the Gashat, take it away," I really didn't know about it yet, and I know now that the reason my eyes glowed red was because Parad was nearby, but the reason I was so agitated was because I was thinking, "I wonder if that would get him on board." But I did that, so from episode 19 on, when Parad was taking over my character, I had to act a little scary, while keeping the nuance of enjoying the game. If anything, Parad is more of a "let's play a game" kind of guy (laughs). Well, I tried not to look too much like him so that the audience wouldn't recognize him right away.

ーその設定を聞いてどう思いました?

Interviewer: What did you think when you heard that?

主人公と敵という180度違う存在なのに、その敵が主人公から生まれたという構図は面白いなって思いましたね。

Kai: I thought it was interesting that the protagonist and the enemy were 180 degrees apart, but the enemy was born from the protagonist.

だから、永夢だけじゃなくてパラドもヒーローなんだよね。バグスターのヒーロー。そう思うと、パラドが「仮面ライダークロニクルの主人公は俺だ」って言うのもよくわかるんですよ。

Iijima: That's why not only Emu, but Parad is a hero too. A bugster hero. When I think about it, I can understand why Parad says, "I'm the protagonist of Kamen Rider Chronicle."

ただ、そういった特殊な設定ゆえに、なかなか初期はキャラ作りに苦労したこともあったのでは?

Interviewer: However, because of this unique setting, you must have had a hard time creating your characters in the beginning.

はい。最初の頃は本当に何もかも手探りでした。

Iijima: Yes. In the beginning, I really had no idea what I was doing.

パラドは過去がないので、そこが苦労させられましたね。たとえば飛彩だったら彼女を亡くしたとか、大我だったら医師免許を剥奪されたとかあるじゃないですか。でも、パラドは第1話よリ前が何もないようなキャラクターなので、最初の気持ちの入れ方がまったくどうしていいのかわからなかったんですよ。そこから45話も演じてやっと完成したようなところがあるので、僕にとって「エグゼイド」は「パラドの成長記」という感じですね。

Kai: Parad doesn't have a past, so that was a challenge for me. For example, Hiiro has lost his girlfriend, and Taiga has had his medical license revoked. But Parad is a character who has nothing before the first episode, so I didn't know how to put my heart into him at first. It took me 45 episodes to complete the character, so for me, "Ex-Aid" is like "Parad's growth story".

ー第39・40話の撮影エピソードについてもお聞きしたいのですが、まず忘れがたいのが水中でのイメージカットです。

Interviewer: I'd like to ask you about the shooting of episodes 39 and 40, and the first thing I'll never forget is the underwater image

cut.

あのシーン、もともと僕は潜る予定じゃなかったんですけど、「一緒に戦うんだ」って手を差し伸べるくだリを上堀内 (佳寿也) 監督が追加してくださったんです。

Iijima: I wasn't originally going to dive in that scene, but director Yoshiya Kamihoriuchi added the part where I reach out my hand and say, "We're going to fight together."

水中で撮るよって言われて、いかがでした？

Interviewer: What did you think when they told you to shoot underwater?

雨降らし。はよく聞きますけど、「水中？えっ？」って感じで (笑)。「仮面ライダーアマゾンズ」のオープニング (※地上波放送バージョン) でもやってたのは見てたんですけど、あちらは水面近くだったのが、こっちは4メートルぐらい潜ることに……。

Kai: Rainfall. We had done "rainfall" a lot, but I thought "Underwater? What?" (laughs). I had seen it done in the opening of "Kamen Rider Amazons" (the terrestrial version), but that was near the surface of the water, and this was about 4 meters underwater....

実際にやってみると水圧がすごくて。それでも僕はそんなに深いところまで潜ってないんだけど、あの深さで苦しむ演技をするのは大変だったよね？

Iijima: When I tried it, the water pressure was really high. Even though I didn't dive that deep, it was hard to act like you were suffering at that depth, wasn't it?

ど、のは「死ぬ3歩手前でバツのサインを出して」と言われてたんですけど、そもそも死ぬ手前ってのがわかんないわって (笑)。それで最初にいきなリ「ヤバいヤバい！」みたいになっちゃったんですけど、すぐに助けてくれるとは一いえ怖かったですね。苦しむ演技をするために息を全部吐き出す必要があるのが特に。

Kai: I was told to give a "no" sign when I was three steps away from death, but I didn't know what "three steps away from death" meant (laughs). The first thing that happened was that I was suddenly like, "Oh no, oh no!" It was scary, even though they were going to help me right away. I was especially scared when I had to let out all my breath to act like I was in pain.

ーしかも一発OKではなく？

Interviewer: And it wasn't a one-shot deal?

アングルの問題とかもあって、かなリ何回も潜ってました。見てて、これは本当に大変そうだなぁって。

Iijima: There were some problems with the angle, and I wondered how many times I had to dive. I looked at it and thought, this is going to be really hard.

死の恐怖を味わうイメージシーンですけど、わリとリアルに恐怖を感じてました (笑)。おかげでいいものができたと思います。

Kai: It's an imaginary scene where you experience the fear of death, but I felt the fear very realistically (laughs). Thanks to that, I think I was able to create something good.

飯島さんも、また違う苦労がありそうですが？

Interviewer: Iijima-san, you also seem to have had difficulties, didn't you?

ゴーグルをしてないので、ほとんど何も見えないんですよ。「これ、パラドかな〜？」ぐらいにぼんやりとしか (笑)。僕が手を合わせるようにして潜る側だったので、ひと掻きして「ここだー！」って手を伸ばしたらちょっとズレてた…. とか、そんな感じでトライしてたので、モニターでチェックして、ちゃんとできてたときは感動だったよね。

Iijima: I wasn't wearing goggles, so I could barely see anything. I could only vaguely think "Is this Parad?" (laughs). I was the one diving with my hands together, so I stretched out and said, "Here it is!" and when I reached out my hand, it was a little off.... That's how I tried to do it, so I was very impressed when I checked it on the monitor and saw that it was done correctly.

どっちも見えてなかったからね。

Kai: I couldn't see either.

ーそして、それ以外でもお互いの対照的な感情表現がすごい回でした。

Interviewer: It was also a great time to see the contrasting expressions of emotions between them.

「なんで帰ってきたの？」って、あの永夢は冷たすぎでしょ!

Kai: "Why did you come back?" That Emu was too cold!

監督さんにも「冷たっ!」って言われて。

Iijima: The director also said, "That's cold!"

でも、褒められてたよね。

Kai: But you were praised.

「それ好きだな」と言っていただいて、それでOKになりました。

Iijima: He said, "I like it," and gave the OK.

あそこだけ見ると、どっちが人間なのかわからないでしょ？39話のラストも、あのボコボコにするやり方は王蛇クラスのヤバいャツにしか見えないし (笑)。

Kai: If you just look at that scene, you can't tell which one is the human, right? In the last part of episode 39, the way he beat him up looks like he's as dangerous as Ouja (lol).

(笑) 上堀内監督の演出はいかがでしたか？

Interviewer: (laughs) How did you like the direction by Kamihoriuchi?

細かく演技指導をしてくださる監督で、特にそのシーンはホン読みの段階から熱が入ってました。最初はさんざん「伝わらない」って言われ続けてましたけど。

Kai: The director gave me detailed guidance on my performance, and I was especially enthusiastic about that scene from the reading stage. At first, he kept telling me that I couldn't get the message across.

そのホン読みがあったからこそ完成できたと言えますね。

Iijima: I can say that I was able to complete the project because of that reading of the script.

ー具体的な指導で特に覚えていることは？

Interviewer: What specific instruction do you remember?

パラドというよリ「甲斐翔真の殻を破れ」って言われました。「ここで変われないようなら『エグゼイド』でとかじゃなくて、俳優人生での変わり目を逃すぞ」って。チャンスが二度とないとは言わないけど、すごく先になると。

Kai: Rather than Parad, he told me to "break out of the shell of Kai Shoma." He said, "If you can't change here, you'll miss the turning point in your acting career, not just in "Ex-Aid". I'm not saying that I won't get the chance again, but it will be a long time away.

僕もそれぐらい大事なときだとはやはリ言われました。その回で言えば、パラドを前にした自分との葛藤。をどう表情で見せるのかが重要で。これまで人間を一消しまくってるパラドに対する怒リや悔しさもあるんだけど、それを抑えるようにして向き合っていかなくてはいけないという。

Iijima: I was also told that it was such an important time. In that episode, I was struggling with myself in front of Parad. It's important to know how to show it in your facial expressions. There is anger and frustration towards Parad, who has been erasing all the humans, but I have to suppress it and face him.

自分の分身だからね。

Kai: Because it's your alter ego.

そう。相手がパラドだからってのはありますね。これが黎斗だったら対応が変わってたと思います (笑)。いずれ��せよ、複雑な感情を抱えてる演技にチャレンジできたことは本当によかったです。ツイッターとかでは、パラドのファンに「永夢が許せない」みたいなことをさんざん書かれてたんですけど、むしろそれを見て「よっしゃ!」って手応えを感じてました。まあ、パラドは生きてますし (笑)、それがわかれば納得してくれるだろうというのもあったんですけど、そこまで主人公が嫌われるというのもなかなかないことだと思うので、それぐらいやり切ったことには満足しています。

Iijima: Yes. I think it's because the opponent is Parad. If it had been Kuroto, I would have handled it differently (laughs). In any case, I'm really glad that I was able to challenge myself to act with complex emotions. On Twitter and elsewhere, Parad fans wrote a lot of things like "I can't forgive Emu," but when I saw that, I thought, "Yes!" I felt I had a good response. Well, Parad is still alive (laughs), and I thought that if people understood that, they would be satisfied, but I think it's not often that the main character is hated to that extent, so I'm satisfied that I was able to accomplish that much.

ーそして、それを経ての協力プレイが一転して超楽しそうで。

Interviewer: And after that, the co-op play seems to be super fun.

あの40話の「心が躍るな」は、「今までの全部の話の中で一番心躍っててほしい」と言われて、アフレコに時間をかけました。監督がすぐ隣に来て「もう一回」「もう一回」って (笑)。まぁ、パラドに一とって永夢と一緒に戦えるのは一番嬉しいことですし、おかげで自分でも納得のいくものになりました。

Kai: I spent a lot of time on the recording of that episode 40, "My heart is not excited at all" because I was told that I wanted it to be the most exciting of all the episodes so far. The director came right next to me and said, "One more time," "One more time" (laughs). Well, for Parad, being able to fight together with Eimu is the most exciting thing, and thanks to that, I was satisfied with myself.

分身したパラドクスの「ビヨってろ！」もよかったよね。

Iijima: The altered Parad's "Biyotero!" was also good.

「俺、ナイス!」とか、あのあたりも上堀内さんが入れてくれてたのをアフレコのときに知ったので、面白いのを撮ってくれてるなぁと。本当にこの39•40話は手応えがあったし、僕たちも一段ステップアップできた気がしています。

Kai: "Ore, nice!" I found out during the recording that Mr. Kamihoriuchi had also added those parts, so I knew that he was filming something interesting. I really felt that episodes 39 and 40 had a great response, and we were able to take it to the next level.

ーそれでは最終話の放送も終わったということで、まずはラスト」の感想をお願いします。

Interviewer: So now that the last episode has been aired, please tell us what you think of the last episode.

永夢としては、最後まで医者としての自分を貫いたと言いますか…… 普通はあの立場で上の人に対して��会見させてください」とは言えないし、言わないじゃないですか。でも、ゲーム病の被害者のことを知ってほしいという思いだったり、今後に向かっての志が見えるのが永夢らしいなと。そこから様々なことを感じ取っていただければと思います。

Iijima: As for Emu, I would say that he stuck to himself as a doctor until the end...... Normally, in that position, you can't and wouldn't say to your superiors, "Please let me have a press conference." However, I think it is typical of Emu that he wants people to know about the victims of the game disease and that he has aspirations for the future. I hope you can feel various things from it.

ーパラドまであんないい結末を迎えられたのは、初期の頃からは想像できませんでした。

Interviewer: I couldn't have imagined such a good ending for Parad from the early days.

個人的には悪のまま散りたかったところもあるんですけどね。でも、キャラクター的にそれが許されない立場になってしまったので。

Kai: Personally, I would have liked to dissipate as an evil person. But I was in a position where I couldn't do that as a character.

いやいや、パラドが消えたまま終わったら、また永夢が悪者じゃん (一同笑)。僕としては生きててもらわないと困るよ？

Iijima: No, no, no. If Parad disappears and the story ends, Emu will be the bad guy again (all laugh). As for me, I need you to stay alive, okay?

そもそもパラドがいないと、「トゥルー•エンディング」で変身できないからね。

Kai: In the first place, you can't transform in the True Ending without Parad.

では最後に、最も思い出深い共演シーンをひとつ挙げて締めとさせてください。

Interviewer: Finally, let me conclude with one of the most memorable co-starring scenes.

やっぱリ40話で「ニコの運命は俺が変える!」っていう、あの初協力プレイの変身かな。

Kai: I'd have to say it's that first co-op transformation in episode 40, "I'll change Nico's fate!"

やっぱそこだよね。あとは一次の41話の最初のほうで、拳をバンッと合わせて融合するのとか。あそこはノールックでやってるので、なかなかバッチリ合わなかくて大変でしたけど。

Iijima: That's what I'm talking about. Also, at the beginning of episode 41, when they fused by bumping their fists together with a bang. It was hard to get a perfect match because we were doing it without looking at each other.

「ニコの運命は俺が変える」も、アフレコでは全然声が合わなくてね。「お前ら気が合わねぇなあ」なんて言われちゃいましたけど、これからもこんな感じで、「エグゼイド」のあとも良きライバルのような関係を続けていけるといいですね。

Kai: Our voices didn't match at all during the recording of "I'll change Nico's fate". We were told, "You guys don't get along," but I hope we can continue to be good rivals like this after "Ex-Aid".

そうだね。お互いにドラマ初挑戦からのスタートだったし、負けたくないですね。まあ、身長だけはたぶん追いつけないと思いますけ (一同笑)。

Iijima: That's right. It was both of our first attempts at drama, and I didn't want to lose. Well, I don't think I'll be able to catch up with him in height (everyone laughs).

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