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Calling the KnH fandom "raging heterosexuals" is hilarious.

At some point, some people will have to admit that they are mad that Maomao's only romantic relationship is m/f.

Not saying people cannot feel uncomfortable or dislike him and the ship, but it's so easy to see through their hate when the follow-up to Jinshi misinformation / hate is always that "you guys defend men too much", that "Maomao is aroace", or that "the author is a coward for not making Maomao lesbian." Some also claim that Maomao falling in love with Jinshi is bad writing because it's out of character.

They get so mad that people are defending the main canon pairing and won't let them get away with spreading inaccurate and incorrect information with the clear intent of being hateful.

And no, I am not claiming that anyone is oppressed for liking straight ships. I think it is fair to point out that some people do infact hate that Maomao loves a man. Talking about "I want to keep Maomao safe" like she's some damsel in distress, meanwhile she WANTS to stay by his side.

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there's this little apothecary...

stickers coming to my shop jul 18

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these two have been taking up 98% of my brain space lately

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Jinshi trying to control himself around Maomao is so... 😭😭😭

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While I understand some of the complaints in that one post about downplaying the role of female characters in KnH, I think it ignores one major difference between those characters and Jinshi: he is the story's deuteragonist.

The cast of characters surrounding Maomao changes throughout the story, with very few that I would consider mainstays. Iirc, despite stretches of the story where his presence is minimal, aside from Maomao, he is the only character who has appeared in every light novel volume thus far.

Although many characters are undoubtedly important, he is crucial and inseparable to the plot in a way that the rest of the supporting cast is not.

So to say that he is more relevant to the story than most characters, regardless of gender, is not an inaccurate statement. It is just part of the nature of his role in the story.

Given that it is her story, Maomao is by far the most central character; Jinshi would follow in second place.

Also, it doesn't make sense to complain about people supposedly "downplaying the role of characters" but then go on to kinda do just that — diminish his role to play up the importance of other characters. 😅

This is not to say that misogyny isn't part of the problem for some (those people would have quite a hard time enjoying KnH if they have an issue with female characters being prevalent…), but I think most of the people they were referring to accurately describe his importance to the story.

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Their logic is that a person who was dishonest (even when she had multiple chances to come clean) with her, betrayed her, and willingly put her life at risk is somehow better and healthier for Maomao than someone who is devoted to her, tries his best to keep her out of harms way, and puts her first. Even when Jinshi makes mistakes, he does his best to make amends. Shisui couldn't even apologize to or be completely honest with Maomao during their final encounter. They can ship, but this idea that Shisui's treatment of Maomao rivals that of — or is so much better than — Jinshi's treatment of and love for her is wholly unserious and untrue.

Love, eh?

People trying to pit a woman who literally gambled MaoMao's life as a rival to Jinshi will never not be funny to me....

Yeah nothing screams love of a person more than betraying the one you love in a very selfish manner against a person who literally *checks 16 LN volumes* brands himself like a servant, pretends as MaoMao's vessal few times despite being a crown prince, brings her forcibly removed adopted father back in his job in a dignified manner, spares literally rebels from horrific consequences for her sake, tolerates her father's disrespect regarding his position and still tries to win his approval, declares open intent to not have only MaoMao as his wife but free her in case he has to be the emperor and millions of such things....

Y'all need to get off the ‘morally grey wicked one gets the girl’ train promoted by internet, complexity can be decent and there can be complex characters like Jinshi who can act recklessly but also demonstrate utmost responsibility and selflessness in times...

Shisui, in her tragedy and beauty, acted recklessly and selfishly, something Jinshi would never....To even compare and say that they both are EQUAL as rivals in MaoMao's case is debasing the entire narrative of the KnH as a story...Just because Shisui came off as morally grey character who performed as a villain, doesn't mean suddenly she is a rival for Jinshi and somehow MaoMao's relationship with both is same. Somehow internet has made you think that villain gets the heroine trope fits here, please...

Many times, kind, noble and selfless hero does deserve the heroine because he has worked for it! And Jinshi perfectly fits that mould...Spare me this insult to entirety of Love.... How can one who reveals everything to you in the heart of rebelion and leaves you at the mercy of other's kindness can be compared to someone who turns the whole world upside down because someone dared to kidnap you? Just how are these two equal demonstrations of Love?

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Now that season 2 is almost over

I have seen a noticeable amount of people push this narrative that a majority of the bad takes and misinformation spread about KnH are by fans who "only focus on the romance." However, a good portion of the misinformation — especially during this season — have come from individuals who hate Jinmao and/or Jinshi.

This narrative is especially odd when you consider the fact that a sizable amount of these takes aim to paint Jinshi in a negative light.

I think KnH is a wonderful series and it has many aspects that should be appreciated, but it is very telling that some fans feel superior for disliking the romance.

It feels as though the fandom’s stupidity is unfairly pinned onto those who enjoy Jinmao, likely to make those who hate or who are disinterested in the romance feel smarter.

There are certainly some Jinmao fans that contribute to the spread of misinformation, they are part of the larger fandom after all, but comments that essentially pin all of the bad takes onto their shoulders are ridiculous.

It is perfectly fine to not enjoy the romance, but let's not act like Jinshi / Jinmao fans are responsible for the spread of most of the misinformation and bad takes.

Also, there is no shortage of analyses of characters that have been heavily featured in the anime so far. No one gets to decide what “carried” an episode for others. Enjoy what you want, and express sadness about certain aspects not getting much attention from fans, but don't insult those who don’t primarily focus on what you 🫵 want.

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God forbid you even mention some of her faults lol. Other characters get much more hate for actions that are not nearly as far-reaching, but if you say that her backstory, no matter how tragic, does not absolve her of her wrongdoings, suddenly you don't "understand the story / character". It is fine to like and appreciate her character, but I have noticed that her actions are downplayed and sanitized quite a lot.

@kuirandbunnies I’m replying to you here because I wanted to do a longer response and the small reply didn’t express my thoughts enough.

So, if we’re talking in the realm of fiction, anything is possible at many ages. Maomao is 17 at the beginning of the story and she manages to unravel a multi-layered conspiracy to kill Jinshi, run into a ceremony and save him. Jinshi is 18 and somehow almost running the entire rear palace by himself and managing to make reforms, all the while training and bearing the wait of his occasional duties as Prince. So in the world of fiction it’s totally possible Shisui could’ve done something against her parents at the age of 18/19 which is what she is around the time of the rebellion. Even 17 would be reasonable. Because in fiction, especially young adult fiction it’s not always about being completely realistic, it’s often about the narratives behind what drives the characters actions.

Now we know we the author wouldn’t have chosen this path for her because she’s meant to be complex and as I argued, not always likeable but that doesn’t mean the possibility wasn’t there because of her age. Even if we go into the historical realm which the novels are based on in Imperial China, they wouldn’t have even heard of the word trauma around these times and there were teenagers doing far more at far younger ages back in these eras than even shows are able to portray due to modern sentiments. The idea of taking years to unpack generational trauma is a modern thing, back then if you had family issues you either sucked it up and had respect for your family no matter their horrible problems because of honor or you did something about it. This could mean like children taking out their parents due to corruption or relatives unseating relatives. I’m not saying it was a lovely time but at least it was a time of action and less thinking about feelings which could result in more harm overall.

I knew this would be a post people disagreed with due to the anime’s elevation of Shisui to hero-like status. My point with it is exactly this though. One doesn’t get a free pass to harm others because they were harmed. Shisui knew that Suirei was infiltrating the rear palace, she knew that they had tried to kill Jinshi with the falling beam and Maomao was severely injured, she then went on to deceive her, befriend her and then continuously lie despite knowing Jinshi and Maomao were smart enough and sympathetic enough to potentially believe her. She left her ladies-in-waiting to be punished, kidnapped Maomao, poisoned the children without knowing how the drugs would affect them, Kyou-u lost his memories, the other children are parentless, her sister has to live in isolation her whole life and she scarred Jinshi so her mother could have her revenge, after she was dead. Then she goes on to fake an elaborate death, where she’s remembered as a great vixen while her clan suffers any lasting consequences. I think Maomao is the one who said it best when she’s confronting the shrine maiden in LN 7:

"I hate it when people think everything's over just because they're dead!" It was as good as refusing to face the consequences of whatever you had done.”

To me this is a reference to Shisui. She felt it was a cop-out for her to die and not face what was left of the consequences. To not try to see if there was anything to be done for her clan. The shrine maiden fakes her death but sticks around to help and give information that could be useful. Shisui just trots off into the sunset to live life for herself. Quite frankly it’s cowardly.

I think it’s why Maomao admires Jinshi and others who, even if they struggle, don’t walk away from their difficulties but try to find a way out that serves everyone. I’m not saying she didn’t have a rough way in life, the narrative is meant to make us feel sorry for her but I think it’s not meant to let her off the hook either.

That’s actually what I like about it is that we’re meant to see parts of her that are ugly and unforgivable but also tragic and sad. She’s a character the others in the story still remember awhile on but it’s not in the light viewers see now, Maomao especially harbors what can be seen as a resentment towards her and struggles to build friendships after. Again in LN 7 when she and Yao, En’en and Maomao are eating and Maomao thinks that Yao’s petulant behavior is somewhat charming, but she thinks offhandedly to herself:

She was an awful lot easier to deal with than a sycophant who kept her true intentions hidden.

To me that’s her referring to Shisui. So their relationship isn’t one of great remeberance or sadness, it’s a lot of bitterness thanks to what she did, how she lied and hurt people.

All this long answer to say, I get you’re a therapist and have experience in this area but overall my post was about fictional characters who can break the boundaries of therapy and trauma and generational cycles. I mean Katniss Everdeen was 16 running around an arena making a fool out of the Capitol when nothing those kids were doing would’ve been realistic in the real world where if they really acted up they likely would’ve been blown to pieces right away. So fiction all the time breaks the rules of what traumatized children can pull off against adults.

The whole point of my post was to say that if everyone is saying Shishou and Shenmei are wrong for everything they did, Shisui is too because she was smart enough to explain it all at the end so she knew, but held her tongue and if we’re going with today’s equivalent then the accomplice is just as guilty as the murderer. Even if you’re not the one who pulls the trigger, if you stand by and watch it happen and do nothing, you’re just as guilty and I think the fandom forgets that in a bid to feel sorry for her past. Don’t mean this to come across super rude, just wanted to explain my thoughts in a better and more cohesive way than I could in a small reply blurb. Hope that all makes sense and maybe even gives some better background to my original post.

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A Saving Grace

Not going to lie, but I am a bit relieved that Shi clan arc is ending. One of many reasons I want anime to become a longer franchise because Western clan arcs are actually the momentous plots in the story. And Gyoukyou is perhaps the first proper villain the franchise had.

As far as Shisui is concerned, I neither see her as a villain nor as a heroine. She was also not a helpless victim, she was kind of a reluctant accomplice, a performer or, as Jinshi properly understood, a vixen. Lishu is someone you would call a victim with no agency in deciding her own life whatsoever, even Suirei for that matter. Shisui as a complexly-layered character was memorable, but I maintain as a LN reader that she was definitely not the best MaoMao got. I will always maintain that she should have been honest with MaoMao before bringing her to the centre of danger, her timing of revealing everything in most dangerous of moments simply became a problem. She definitely was not an angel or a martyr, she was a warrior who decided to end it all, and as a personal fulfillment, end it all on her terms. Her sacrifice was more of an atonement, and her attempts to save those she love meant a lot. But it does not take away from the fact that she was an accomplice in her father's crimes ( even if reluctantly). And her coincidental meeting with MaoMao kind of forced her to change her tactics. And that at the end she did put MaoMao's life at stake, unwittingly or unwillingly. You do not do that to friends (and they were friends by that point). Therefore, to absolve her, while Jinshi has been criticized for something way less dangerous and called selfish for way less harmful behaviour, is quite telling.

I love the anime and it has justified the source material in adaptation way better than many others. But there is no doubt anime put a tad bit more focus on her than justified, there are characters who would be there for 8,9 + volumes. Compared to them she and Xiaolan do not stay in the narrative for long, had she been given focus on lines of Xiaolan, it would have been fine. But the folks tried to make her one of the main characters that she was not. This kind of limelight is for characters like Chue and Basen. However, they did execute her character beautifully, and she definitely leaves a long-lasting impression.

I am not sure how long this franchise plans to go on, and I am not sure if I would follow this till that point, but I do hope that they manage to get narratively long-lasting characters animated. I am more excited to see Western arcs adopted, hence for me Shi clan arc was impactful but not the defining moment of TAD. I also feel like Smallpox arc would be another intriguing one.

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Saw somebody say that Loulan scarred Jinshi as a "favor" so that he wouldn't be reminded of the previous emperor when he looked in the mirror.

It was never done as a favor from her end. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't even think she was necessarily aware of how deep his struggles run regarding his beauty. And even if that were true, she had no right to do that and it doesn't concern her.

It was not a favor, but rather an act of revenge for her mother, and that's okay. Maybe some don't like the idea of her scarring someone who is innocent on behalf of someone as irredeemable and awful as Shenmei, and to soften that, they claim she intended on "doing him a favor" (?).

I would imagine that it shows that, despite everything, Shenmei was still her blood mother and someone that she could not 100% turn on at the end of the day. This is definitely not to say that she was on her side or liked her (she worked to take Shenmei down), but she still did harm someone for her mother, who was fueled by jealousy.

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I loveeeee Jinshi's scar and he looks gorgeous with it, so I have never had qualms about his face being scarred.

However, the reasoning for scarring Jinshi was not justified at all. It was an act of revenge for her awful mother, who didn't deserve anything of that sort to be done on her behalf. 😭 On top of that, he only committed the "sin" of being related to and resembling the previous emperor.

And I know he gave his consent, but that doesn't change the fact that she did it for her terrible mother, which means that there was 0 justification for it lol.

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After some thought, I understand why the fandom might hate the "negativity" after the most recent episode. However, some critiques are warranted, whether they are pleasant to hear or not. The production was tight for season 2, and I think many are aware of that fact, but I think people can still voice their opinions and disappoinment.

I have seen some people say that since Shisui won't appear again in the story, that it is okay that things were cut elsewhere to give her the spotlight. I get that she won't ever appear again, but that doesn't mean they should sacrifice other parts that are important narratively, especially when they have an impact on the series later on. In the novel, both moments were important to the narrative (whether it was for the arc, or for the general story in Jinshi's case), so you can't blame novel readers for wanting the impact of both moments to match that (at least somewhat) of the novel.

Although she is important, she is not the only character to have an big moments in this arc, but the anime has not conveyed that super well for the most part. I have even seen anime-onlys say that the reveal felt anticlimactic. It definitely lacked the weight that the same moments had in the LN.

If anything, it makes less sense to brush off moments in the story that are important for characters that are actually present for the rest of the story.

I have heard the whole "light novels readers are ungrateful" and yes, while people can be stuck up about source material in any fandom, I don't think it's fair to be weird about people being disappointed that certain scenes that are deemed important felt flat. Given the amount of episodes left in the season and the pacing, I don't think many were expecting for everything to be included from the source material. Minimizing things to "people are disappointed that a few lines were cut out" is unfair because those lines are important enough to alter the tone of the scenes (at least in my opinion).

That said, the anime is still one of the better LN adaptations and I am grateful for that.

Regardless of what the anime does, the light novels are so good and I hope more people get into them. I suppose a good outcome of this is making some more people interested in picking up the novels. 😭

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congratulations to jinshi for being the first fictional man to get the female character treatment (overhated and misunderstood over mistakes that are in line with the themes of the story).

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Not to be shady (but I am) but the over-exaggerated response of some scenes getting shortened in the anime is so funny to me like I’ve watched other animes completely plow through the source material with no regard because because two pieces of dialogue were left out it’s ruined the entire season for you 😭

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I do not dislike Shisui, love her. But people, especially anime onlys, who have carved out a lot of unnecessary fuss out of their friendship, I wonder how would they react to MaoMao's later interactions with Lishu, that balcony scene Or that injury scene with Chue (if anime ever gets to that point). Or even her reaction to Yao's poisoning in front of Shrine Maiden (they were not even friends at that point)...

Last couple of interactions have been used to downgrade Jinshi's relationship with her (lol, y'all ain't ready for LN5 scene and onwards). For me though, MaoMao mirrored a very human reaction to Shisui's act. Mao² realised Shisui is walking essentially to her death, one of her closest people. Mao² who slapped across a lady's face for endangering a consort's life in a time when she had little to no regard for these high-status people, how did you expect her to react when she realised a friend of her is walking towards her end? This is where Loumen's upbringing makes a difference. Despite everything, and repressed emotions, Mao² is kind-hearted especially towards human suffering. And does whatever she can according to her station. She let her much hated father have a chance with his dying love. She saved Jinshi without even knowing it was him. Now Shisui is a close person walking towards her demise, she would have reacted more or less in the same way had it been Xiaolan. The way Mao² reacts to Jinshi's scars, and keeps on admonishing him from time to time, is another reflection of her with her close people. Yet people are hell-bent on making Shisui something she is not— a competition to Jinshi. She never was.

I do not care because I have read till LN-14, a lot has gone down since this arc, something lot serious and mind-altering for both of them.

However, I find it amusing when people say Jinshi and MaoMao did not have chemistry like Shisui and Mao² in last few episodes. Yeah, no shit Sherlock, it is because it is the END of a precious relationship while more serious phase of MaoMao and Jinshi's kind of BEGINS at this stage. How could the intensity of what has ended be compared to what has begun? Tho honestly I was more sad about the fact that Mao² never wanted this, and genuinely wanted her relationship with Shisui and Xiaolan to remain as it is.

Lol, what you think would be the situation, if it is Jinshi seperating from MaoMao. It will be at least 10 times worse, in terms of intensity and dramatics. The intense turning point for MaoMao and Chue in Bandits arc makes Shisui and MaoMao exchange look like a milder version. The point is how else would you expect a separation look like if not all sentimental and intense compared to two people who have just realised their relationship has entered into a new phase. In other words, no way were Shisui and Jinshi interacting with MaoMao in same capacity or at same level. It is after this arc actually that Mao² view of Jinshi goes a fundamental transformation. So, how are these two relationships comparable?

Please develop a reading comprehension, it was either no Jinshi or just Jinshi in the novels.... Don't turn something as incredibly sentimental as a loss of friend into an unnecessary ‘jumping the gun’ competition...

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I know I might be biased because I prefer reading the light novels to watching the anime, but I really don’t like the way the anime handles some important scenes between Maoamo and Jinshi.

Because how can you go from this?

To this?!

Where’s the “she wasn’t sure how she knew, but she knew: she was sure she had seen him.”?!

Or her thinking that he migh be there to save her?!

The reunion scene was better, still not as impactful as in the books, but I can admit this is subjective.

Also, I don’t understand why they didn’t include this line when Maomao gave the hairpin to Loulan?

It’s wasn’t fine to not have it returned because she didn’t care that much. It was fine because she thought the hairpin might come back to her like its original owner does.

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On the bed, on the table, in the kitchen, the balcony, in the shower, 8 days a week, 25 hours a day-