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xmeguchi · 1 year ago

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Natsu does NOT have any previous experience with romantic love

This is the (better) Tumblr version of my post from Twitter. Given the format of this website, I'll add some details to what's already written.

Before starting with this, I want to clarify that the motivation to write this post has little to do with nalu itself (it will be mentioned to highlight a point though). Having previous romantic partners DOESN'T really make any ship invalid. You'll find the actual reason behind this essay under the cut below.

This is about how Natsu, as a character, is never presented or seen by others as someone who has experience with love and such idea is never hinted or implied anywhere in the canon material. This lack of experience explains why Lucy thinks he has no interest in it.

As we will see later, Lucy isn't the only one who thinks like this... Let's get started.

Year 2024. Why writing all this? Some weeks ago I was involved in a discussion about whether Natsu was being OOC during a filler (non canon) scene of the anime where he snaps at Lucy in a way he never does with any of his friends in canon material. The discussion led to this...

I didn't want to assume that this person was taking Lisanna as some kind of first love. At the end it turned out that was exactly what was happening. The proof? The most platonic reunion ever... with Happy reacting the same way as Natsu and comedy being included. It is important to highlight that Mashima never makes two people between whom there have been romantic feelings reunite like this, with comedy references in between that downplays the seriousness of the moment to some extent. While this post is about Natsu and his feelings, I could also mention Lisanna's reaction to this, something that proves that there wasn't even a one sided love: after noticing this Natsu is the same one from her real dimension, she doesn't start crying because of him but because of her siblings.

Let's ignore the part where this dude started calling me and some other users "retards" because that speaks volumes for itself about his lack of real arguments. After all, he has been fighting for at least 4 years with teens over power scaling, a topic he may seem to be knowledgeable about but actually isn't so much, plus he has been banned from at least one Discord server because of his r4pe threats. It seems this individual was so obsessed with that specific thing that he said Zeref did it to Mavis and that's how August was made... That also speaks volumes about his media literacy and the fact that even if it's true that he did read the manga so many times as he claimed during this discussion, he has serious problems with reading as a normal person. When it comes to the topic of this post, the problem is that he has some influence within the fandom, at least on Twitter, so whatever he says is something that many of his followers will start repeating.

What does Mashima do when Lisanna finally comes back to her original home and she gets a proper reunion with everyone?

After the initial shock from seeing Edo Lisanna in Earthland and the big reveal, this is how Natsu reacts.

This isn't a reunion that suggests that Lisanna is special compared to everyone else in the guild, and particulary to those who grew around Natsu. Also, we can't say Mashima just doesn't know how to write such scene properly... because he's written it at least once (in Rave).

The emotion you can feel in this scene, the way ONLY both lovers are on the spotlight and the rest of their friends are in the background until the end... Well, the difference is so obvious that it's ridiculous to say more. Given how well Mashima handles the emotional dimension of his characters in his mangas, the possibility that he didn't know how to depict two lovers who got separated from each for some time due to circumstances beyond their control is off the table.

Also, notice how the end of the Edolas arc depicts this.

The difference with her reunion with Natsu and the others is so obvious that there's no need to say more.

We can also discard Lisanna as a former love interest because there's no akwardness between them once she's back to the guild. They can be seen playing together and briefly interacting from time to time, so it's not like they're avoiding each other.

Is it implied somewhere that they had something beyond friendship? Not in any kind of canon material. Every time Lisanna is mentioned in regards to Natsu she's presented as a close childhood friend. We have, for example, her profile from one of the first chapters where she's back home and the information of the official magazine that was released 10 years ago.

But what if they simply stopped loving each other due to being separated, as a fellow nalu shipper told me on Discord? Making characters fall out of love is something that Mashima also references (see Macao pic a bit below). It also goes against what we saw regarding Erza and Jellal, who still had romantic feelings for each other despite their antagonistic positions for many years, or against the whole Zeref and Mavis thing. In other Mashima mangas we have more couples like this. Elsie and Justice still loved each other despite being sworn enemies, and Let still loved Julia (and vice versa) when he discovered she was alive, a kinda similar scenario to Natsu and Lisanna if they had been lovers. Given that Natsu and Lisanna weren't even enemies to each other at any point and they were only separated for two years, we can't say they had something canonically and they simply got over it with no actual reference to it.

There was a very good moment to reference past feelings in 100YQ: when Touka includes Lisanna in the group of women "around Natsu".

Instead of offering us a comment like "it's not like that anymore", Lisanna just says something that implies they're not that close. After all, Natsu is hanging out with his team most of the time since it was established.

What's the reason this fandom has been so many years discussing about this friendship? Because the first anime adaptation goes beyond that friendship and the manga omake where both of them take care of Happy's egg, something Lisanna decides to help with because she loves animals and she felt Natsu wouldn't do it properly. The first season includes several fillers that pave the way for a love triangle, presenting Lisanna as a girl who is VERY interested in marrying Natsu when they're adults. In addition, Happy is presented as their son, something that totally goes against the source material. Even if Natsu is the one who saw Happy be born and was living with him since then, Happy is never considered as his son and is always called a nakama/companion/friend.

This long thread has everything that A-1 and Satelight added in regards to Natsu and Lisanna. As we can see in the info provided in one of the first tweets, Mashima let them "edit" the story the way they wanted to and it's mentioned explicitely by both him and Ishihara (the director) that Ishihara is responsible for those additions, not Mashima. We also can't say the additions were something Mashima asked for because he couldn't include everything he wanted in his manga for some reason. This is supported by the fact that Lisanna is never presented in the manga as any kind of romantic interest after she comes back.

It's also important to say that these fillers aren't canon: they're not referenced in the source material (the starry key arc was, even if Mashima wasn't involved in the writing), they're not referenced in the anime itself after Lisanna comes back and they have no impact in the events of the story during and after Edolas.

Currently, thanks to Mashima's Twitter Spaces, we know two things: he revived Lisanna because some people in the anime staff liked her (Ishihara is one of them for sure), which explains why she's not very relevant and is always tied to her siblings, and he once considered to include a love triangle between Natsu, Lucy and Lisanna after Edolas, but he liked Natsu and Lucy's dynamic by then enough to not introduce such storyline. He also said Lisanna was "だめ" in regards to that triangle that never came to be, implying that she would have been the one that doesn't get the boy in that scenario.

So is Lisanna our supposed former love interest? As far as the canon material goes, no. Was she close to Natsu? Yes. Is she dear to him? Yes, just like everyone in his family, the guild, is (I can't believe I'm writing this in fking 2024). Now, what if there was someone else? The assumption that characters may have dated another (unnamed) character offscreen isn't totally crazy. After all we saw how Juvia dated Bora, even if it was a narrative tool to show that not even dates would make Juvia stop being depressed. However, we can't say there was someone else as more than a headcanon unless it's implied or mentioned somewhere explicitely. We know Macao was married but got divorced thanks to the official magazine, for example.

When it comes to Natsu, nothing is ever mentioned.

100YQ, the official FT sequel, has several pannels that go against the whole idea of Natsu being experienced with romantic love. As I mentioned at the beginning, even others from the guild, and especifically Macao in this pannel, who knows Natsu since he was a kid, have a hard time believing he's interested in love.

This part of the story includes a very interesting pannel that also debunks the whole idea that Natsu felt more than frienship for Lisanna before she was transported to Edolas.

Why would Lisanna's brother react like this over such comment if Natsu and his sister had romantic feelings in the past? Easy: because those feelings never existed.

Even Lisanna is a bit surprised when Touka expresses her interest in him.

Previous romantic experience would also mean that Natsu's relationship with Lucy would be more advanced than it is as of now, not to mention this recent scene.

Natsu is still quite dense with romance, even when it doesn't involve him, and while he talks about his and Lucy's kids they still have a long way to go due to his total inexperience in this area as of now. Someone with past love experiences wouldn't be like this. I could say more about this but this isn't the post for it so...

Conclussion: the first season of the anime did a lot of damage that resulted in many years of discussions, fights, misogyny towards both Lucy and Lisanna. There was no childhood or teen love, no jealousy from Lisanna when she saw how close Natsu and Lucy were as a team and nothing suggests that Lisanna was more than a friend in canon material. Claiming the opposite at this point of the story is useless.

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xmeguchi · 2 years ago

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“Kaguya-Sama: Love is War” becomes a lot more interesting if you consider the two main love stories as a meta-critique of the shoujo romance genre

Let me explain. So there are two typical storylines in this genre:

1) Naive, clumsy girl goes to rich high school and crosses paths with the handsome, popular boy. The girl is sweet and kind while the boy is cold and aloof. The two clash at first but slowly, the girl’s sense of justice and good nature start to warm the cold boy’s heart.

2) Ice queen tsundere is one of the hardest working girls in the school. She scares everyone around her…except the loser boy who just wants to have fun and enjoy his school life. The two are paired up one day. Even though the loser boy annoys the shit out of the ice queen, he slowly but surely warms her frozen heart with his good nature and lovable personality.

In comparison to “Kaguya-Sama”, four of our main characters fit the roles in the above storylines. Miko Iino is the naive, clumsy girl. Miyuki Shirogane is the handsome, popular boy. Kaguya Shinomiya is the ice queen tsundere. Yu Ishigami is the loser boy who just wants to have fun. The thing is, Aka Akasaka didn’t pair them up with their typical counterpart. Miko is paired with Ishigami while Kaguya is paired with Miyuki.

So how does this intentional mismatching affect the story? Well, the two couples clash in ways that are unique to the series and it’s mainly because they’re trying to do the typical romance storyline but can’t because the roles are all wrong:

1) The romance between the handsome, popular boy and the ice queen tsundere is literally stalled because they’re both waiting for the other to make the first move. They’re the ones whose icy hearts have to be thawed, but since they’re BOTH icy, neither of them knows what to do.

2) The romance between the naive, clumsy girl and the loser boy who just wants to have fun starts off on the wrong foot since they’re both the moral authority. They end up annoying each other because they’re both trying to “help” the other “change”, but at the same time, believe they’re both in the right.

Basically, if romance was a fire, Kaguya and Miyuki would be the fuel while Miko and Ishigami are the sparks. Kaguya and Miyuki have no spark to ignite their romance while Miko and Ishigami have no fuel to spark in the first place. But both couples are trying to change this so that something can start. For example, Miko learned how to be a gamer so that she could have something in common with Ishigami (she’s creating “fuel” for their romance) and Kaguya hand delivered a cake to Miyuki on his birthday (she’s trying to “spark” their romance).

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xmeguchi · 3 years ago

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Fun fact. I met a real life Natsu. I’m not joking, I have no idea how this guy has survived in modern society with his attitude.

* Always bragging about his dad, who lives in another country.

* Saying that he’s got few friends who are like family.

* Very easy to upset

* One moment he is friendly, the next he’s engaging in a fight, even with random strangers, for random reasons.

* Proud of himself.

* Has random moments when he says that he knows he’s hard to deal with.

* Wants to help out, even when there’s nothing to do / nobody asked him.

* Eats too much but awkwardly enough does not gain weight

* Can fall asleep within seconds. And snores.

* Likes cats and children

* Has an ugly, worn out biker’s scarf that he sometimes wears indoors for mysterious reasons

* Despite being quick at picking unnecessary fights he is equally fast at forgiving.

I’ll give you an example: he picked a fight with a guy who almost hit him with a bike. He looked enraged, I thought he was going to beat him up. The other guy said “sorry man, I had a long day.” And suddenly they were best friends.

Ah, one more thing:

* Comes to your house unannounced

(Should I ask him if he’s got a crazy big brother)

#fairy tail #natsu dragneel #hiro mashima #fairy tail theory #lucy heartfilia

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xmeguchi · 3 years ago

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Rambling about Fairies - Manga Chapter 146 + 80

Gonna ramble a bit on Celestial Spirit headcanons for a bit. These dresses were definitely the prototype concept for Star Dresses, but I really like to think of the different clothing as ways to characterise the spirits themselves, too.

Virgo gives Lucy a cute, off-shoulder, backless dress that’s logically not very practical for battle, but it is light on the fabric and thus doesn’t get in the way of a nimble fighter like Virgo. Virgo herself doesn’t wear the most practical clothing, but it’s going on the whole ‘fitting, less flappyness’ sort of look that focuses on trying to look super cute while not being too obstructive, at the risk of being too sexy. Virgo doesn’t care if she flashes the crowd or gets set up for a wardrobe malfunction, that’s why it works for her. Virgo even goes as far as to do Lucy’s hair into pigtails and put her emblem as a pin on the bandages. It’s a bit unnecessary, but it definitely marks the degree of detail and care Virgo takes as a maid, always ensuring great presentation despite her rough fighting style.

In contrast to this, Cancer gives Lucy a long, flowy dress that is wildly impractical for battle but looks absolutely gorgeous, befitting of something a stylist would give a model to walk on the runway.

Once again, this isn’t practical for battle at all– it’s in the way of everything, her hair is style and not very secured, there are so many elements to this dress, and it probably gets in the way of Lucy’s cheerleader-esque agility. But this is Cancer’s choice of clothing, and Cancer chose to make Lucy look gorgeous despite everything that’s happening around them. His priorities in the situation was Lucy’s physical appearance, rather than mobility. He didn’t care if Lucy was going tower-climbing, he’s here to make her look like a princess. And Lucy’s fine with that. And that’s also why it gets torn up very quickly for the Vidaldus fight. It’s a bit of a lesson learned for all of them.

I do wonder, if Mashima continued to focus on characterisation rather than sex appeal and fanservice, how their dresses could be today.

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xmeguchi · 3 years ago

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NaLu analysis: tension and shipping

A few months ago, shippers brought up an interesting concept: “Tension.” Which led to the question, what does “tension” mean in the context of relationships? Doesn’t NaLu have this element in their bonding?

Let’s start by answering, what’s Tension?

It seems some people deliberately leave it vague as they don’t specify if it is “romantic tension” or “sexual tension.” So, we’re going to briefly explore both concepts to see if we find either something from other premises that doesn’t belong in NaLu, or something that fits their relationship and growth as seen in Mashima’s works.

Let’s start by assuming shippers use the term as Romantic Tension

There are a lot of concepts and factors involved, but to make it simple we can define “romantic tension” as the anticipation produced by the way two characters gravitate towards each other before their eventual relationship upgrade. Such interactions usually have some uniqueness to them, and depending on the writer and the characters, it may include a mix of both nervousness and excitement.

We have to make clear appearing in the panel/frame or having the same reaction to certain things or events is not ‘gravitating toward each other,’ so those scenes don’t count as “tension.”

What does count as romantic tension?

So, which girl does Natsu gravitate towards the most?

It’s kinda hard to miss that since the story started Natsu, slowly but surely, developed a strong attachment to Lucy. It started with Natsu doing what he never did during his whole life in the guild: form a team

They kept growing so close they eventually got the point that he sticks to her a lot more often, even when having the choice to make up for the lost time with his childhood friend by the time of the GMG arc…

…to the point when having to choose between the thrill of battle in the magic games or going on a secret mission to rescue Lucy, he easily chose Lucy.

Bonus points for Lucy getting a little blushed and clearly overjoyed when she got to know about it.

The story also highlights who, more often than not, stays in Lucy’s house eagerly waiting for her return…

He tends to go to Lucy’s home more often that anyone else, and that special chapter revealed he just does it because he wants to be her.

Also, who was the first person he wanted to go with him to battle Hades?

…and as Lisanna predicted, Natsu drew strength from the fact Lucy was by his side even when everyone else was losing hope

Before the Alvarez battle started, who did Natsu choose to spend the night with?

The one who actually got him to talk about the future and rationalize the thrill he feels in battle was Lucy. More often than not, Natsu tends to gravitate towards her, and that’s part of the reason why some of the most meaningful moments come up naturally without any of them being out of character. So, we can say there’s some sort of tension there

But, what about Lucy?

Well, after sharing so much with Natsu she began to feel attached to him too. But, the most notable showings are the ones who showcase the emotional chemistry between the characters. Think about this: who did she turned when needing relief…

At the finale of the GMG arc, who did she run to when overwhelmed by, according to the narrative, a warm feeling dwelling in her chest?

Her first impulse was going to Natsu, and it doesn’t feel forced at all given the context around the moment; feelings trascending space and time, but ultimately Lucy’s own feelings, draw her to Natsu. Before the guild disbanded, who did Lucy run after?

Notice that despite having many guildmates, who are practically her family, it’s the prospect of Natsu’s absence what would make her feel lonely even if the guild were to be there for her. Still, after the disbandment was announced, she didn’t run after any other guild member.

Who did she stick to after the events of HEROs? Who did she seek to prank her new friend? And who did she stay with the rest of their time?

It should be clear by now that the one person Lucy gravitates towards the most is Natsu. So, it’s only logical to conclude there’s “tension” between them as these unique interactions create some sort of suspense or hype around their bond and its potential to grow and evolve into something stronger.

Still, we have another term to cover: Sexual Tension

It’s not the first time we tackled this subject in blogs or forums. Sexual tension occurs when two characters have sexual desires for each other, but they either hold back or never act on those urges. It’s also used to create anticipation, since the only resolve that tension is for the character to get “intimate” with the person they desire.

It sounds crazy when you think about how the manga already told us that neither Natsu or Lucy have much experience with love, and take a look at how they respond to the subject. E.g. recall how Lucy reacts to the prospect of having a child with Natsu?

But, we can use a loophole: Drunk Lucy. It started in a OVA, made it into the manga, and stayed with us ever since

When Lucy gets drunk, the only target of her rather suggestive “affection” is Natsu

As for Natsu. Oddly enough, it’s difficult to find Natsu “horny” even during fanservice involving NaLu. Some omakes may do the trick. But, the closest thing we got in the main storyline is feeling “good” when having Yokai Lucy firmly wrapped around him:

If we were to use those rare moments, we could say Natsu may be attracted to Lucy in more ways than one. So, despite how oblivious Natsu is, and how shy Lucy gets with the subject at hand, it’s possible to argue there’s some sort of “tension” in this regard

But, this is merely a small bonus. The true strength of NaLu is in the first kind of tension mentioned here, which is further enhanced by the solid chemistry they haveA lively and exciting dynamic made even more special due to the emotional attachment they cultivated for one another

Bonus:

Still, it’s pretty interesting seeing shippers use similar arguments to promote premises that contradict NaLu. It’s not uncommon to find fans claiming that NaLu will be canon only because Mashima said so, and because Juvia survived the Alvarez arc, while stating Lucy has “tension” with other guy(s).

So, if Mashima hadn’t commented on Natsu and Lucy being the most “suitable” paring, and/or had Juvia died on the Alvarez arc, then NaLu wouldn’t have a chance? Does the pairing depends on author’s commentary and Juvia’s well-being? That makes NaLu sound forced

And when it comes to the claims of tension, remember the definition(s)? So, according to shippers, Lucy will end up with Natsu, but she gravitates towards someone else, probably because she feels sexual desire for this person, and the only way to resolve that kind of tension is having sex with the other guy… That doesn’t make any sense

The issue is that Natsu doesn’t fit the romantic cliché several shippers want. He’s too quirky and dorky, he’s not sexy enough, he doesn’t throw corny or cheesy one-liners, and he’s not actively seeking romance for he’s inexperienced in that particular field. But, even without clichés, he bonded with Lucy to the point of being completely comfortable with the child he could potentially have with Lucy: Nasha

To the point of offering most of what a relationship needs to grow into something stronger and deeper, as explained in another analysis, Natsu provides Lucy with a sense of adventure that brings her joy and excitment as well as giving her both emotional and practical support

All of these are traits that make romantic relationships prosper. The more you break down the reasoning shippers present, the less sense it makes. For example, did Natsu’s meaningful gestures to Lucy depended on Mashima’s commentary?

Did their most powerful moments happened only because Juvia served as some sort of deterrent to other premises?

Shippers may say or imply that’s case. But, what the author’s works convey is something entirely different. Their bond is stronger, not because of Juvia or interviews, its strength comes from the chemistry they built through the profound effect the had on each other. The tension they have, it’s only there to keep us waiting for their eventual relationship upgrade.

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