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[yournextflame]

Been brushing up on ER's story with the dlc date coming up, your takes (even when I'm unconvinced fully!) have been such a breath of fresh air.

I'm SO sick of seeing the word "parasite" thrown around in the community, or all the assumptions about the GW. Hope your health improves soon!

Thank you for your message and your kind words. I'm glad to hear that you've found value in my perspective on ER's story. It's been quite a journey diving into the lore, especially considering the size of the game and the amount of effort FromSoft and Martin put into it.

Looking forward to more engaging discussions about DLC and its evolving narrative. I feel myself a bit better and DLC rekindled my interest in ER lore ✨

[yournextflame]

After much introspection and soul searching I've turned over a new leaf and have decided to continue making poison swamps 😌

[yournextflame]

Elden Ring Sigils and Color Theory

Elden Ring magic sigils sorted by color. Long post about their lore, meanings of certain colors and what it can reveal about the story of Elden Ring under the cut.

Keep reading

[yournextflame]

Hi! Just wanted to say I really appreciate your ER lore posts; incredibly informative, well-written, and refreshingly balanced compared to most of the community (i.e. no "oh poor Marika is the victim of the evil space demon).

So, again, thanks for your contributions and have a lovely day!

Hello! Thank you for liking my blog, I took a break from writing due to my health condition, but messages like this are encouraging me to finish my drafts!

(my apologies to the people, who didn't get a reply, but I wasn't able to respond properly)

I felt like a lot of interesting staff is swapped under the rug in the moct common interpretation and decided to put attention to the aspects of worldbuilding that were commonly overlooked, I'm glad that you found my view on ER lore interesting!

[yournextflame]

Love how in artbook Malenia's knights are drawn in almost the same pose as Kindred of Rot.

Also, in my old post I suggested that outer god of Rot is represented by butterflies, but I forgot about description of Scorpion's Stinger:

Dagger fashioned from a great scorpion's tail, glistening with scarlet rot. A ceremonial tool used by heretics, crafted from the relic of a sealed outer god. A few minutes in google helped me to find this bad boy:

The Silurian Scorpion was a species of giant scorpion (arachnid) from the Silurian period, which hid under the sand and tracked prey by sensing vibrations. Silurian Period, in geologic time, the third period of the Paleozoic Era. It began 443.8 million years ago and ended 419.2 million years ago, extending from the close of the Ordovician Period to the beginning of the Devonian Period.

[yournextflame]

(if anyone has the book themselves and has the writing credits on hand, i would love to know the name of the author who wrote the lore sections (if specified) so i could ask them about this more directly)

people who have gotten advance or review copies of volume 1 of the elden ring books posted some of the lore sections, and out of curiosity due to the odd writing of them (which i'll touch on further down) i reached out to someone who wrote text for the book:

couple things to be assumed here:

authors are generally obligated to not discuss details for these kinds of projects (likely by FP itself)

strategy guide books are generally written by third parties, with game companies giving data to the publishing companies

because of their third party nature, strategy guides are not always reliable sources of information. this was a particular issue with the prima official guides made for ds3, with the collector's edition map even having wrong names for places.

this at least clarifies that the lore sections were the work of an author hired by FP. given the nature of the book of knowledge and miyazaki's own comments on his misgivings with lore answers for elden ring (i specifically recall he said he didn't want to publish notes on elden ring for fear of dispelling the mystery; if i can find the interview, i will add it here) it seems likely to me the book of knowledge lore is the result of that author's interpretation of the info they were given.

i have anecdotally heard people who worked on the ds3 strategy guide were "provided the full story of ds3 but signed an nda", but i was never able to find a source for this, especially given as (to my knowledge) the ds3 strategy guide does not have lore.

the book of knowledge itself also seems to directly contradict several things we're told in-game. it cites item descriptions directly like a lore essay (while also adding details that are never remarked upon anywhere), rather than presenting the facts straight, which also calls into question the validity of it as a "canon" source. of particular note is how the book refers to the greater will as a kind of extraterrestrial alien god, or representing the tarnished as agents of the fingers.

i will not deny there is still the possibility fromsoftware could have given them info to summarize, but it seems unlikely, and i encourage people to consider this less as a source of explicitly canon lore that's intended to add to discussion, and more a quick-start info section in a strategy guide for casual players of the game.

all of this taken in tandem, i think it can be agreed that the book is at least a very secondary source of lore unless or until dlc canonizes what's discussed in the book

[yournextflame]

@miquellas thank you very much! I hope you wouldn't mind that I post your answer separately for future reference regarding information from Strategy Guide

[yournextflame]

What is Morgott’s timeline in terms of events and movements? I read on some banished spirit knight that he was called upon by a lord of grace of something, and Morgott is called the “Grace-Given” so I was curious if he has like, a timeline in terms of reign and what he did.

Ngl, I'm not into Morgott's lore beyond the Omen thing and I don't know his timeline very well. To me he is kind of weird figure in a sense that he miraculously raised from the sewers to King, implying that he was dedicated enough to do it, while at the same time he suffers from the low self-esteem and self-hatred... only to say this "Have it writ upon thy meagre grave. Felled by King Morgott! Last of all kings." This contrast between him hating himself and yet thinking that he is worthy of a crown is kind of odd. However, as far as I remember there is nothing that specifies how he became King, Morgott the Grace-Given. Though born one of the graceless Omen, Morgott took it upon himself to become the Erdtree's protector. He loved not in return, for he was never loved, but nevertheless, love it he did. he loves the Erdtree for some reason, but I have no idea was he truly Grace-Given and that's why he loved it) or was it's just a title. There were at least 2 sieges of Leyndell, it was attacked by Godefroy, Rykard and Radahn, maybe more demigods, but we don't know. Morgott sucessfully repelled attacks and then invaded Volcano Manor. He also deeply dislikes Tarnished, Night's Cavalry are his soldiers: The Night's Cavalry, who now wander the dim roads of night, were once led by the Fell Omen and were deliverers of death for great warriors, knights, and champions. He was also interested in banished Knights, but only one of them took the offer: One of the two knights known as the Wings of the Storm. After his banishment, he attracted the notice of the Grace-Given Lord and later, having slain a hundred traitors as the Lord's hand, Oleg earned the hero's honor of Erdtree Burial (Banished Knight Oleg) Despite his banishment, he rejected the invitation of the Grace-Given Lord, instead keeping watch over a masterless castle for many years, gaining renown as a hero of the fringes (Banished Knight Engvall) Overall, he seems to continue the same GO politics, which is ironic, considering his upbringings.

[yournextflame]

@kiskeym  Blaidd is Lady Ranni's stepbrother. Ranni's mother, Queen Rennala, approved of him, and they played like siblings from childhood (Iji's dialogue)

Ranni was Empyrean since childhood - she had Shadow as a child. An argument can be made that Radagon went to the milk soon after Ranni's birth, maybe to cover his giant fisco. But Ranni in her illusion recreates Rennala in her prime with wedding ring (see my Amber Egg post), which means that Radagon was still married to her mother. Sadly, her heart was broken when Lord Radagon left her. And then, when the academy rebelled against the royals, she was locked away in the grand library. When Rennala, head of both the Academy of Raya Lucaria and the Carian royal family, lost her husband Radagon, her heart went along with him.And then, those at the academy realized. That Rennala was no champion, after all. There are also various descriptions and dialogues pointing that Rennala lost her mind after Radagon left and I doubt that in this state she would be able to raise Ranni. Ironically, it means that... Rennala probably knew about Radagon? Unless birth of Empyreans in-universe isn't tied to the godhood and they are spawning randomly... but the game connectes Empyreans to god parents. It also seems like Rennala was really invested in Ranni as Empyrean, I even had post about it in drafts, no one of her sons is mentioned in her descriptions, only Ranni and only in the context of Empyreanhood, which is quite suspicious.

Speaking of Death, I really don't like to talk about this topic, it's interesting, but without DLC is incomprehensible imho.

[yournextflame]

@kiskeym re: death and demigods 1. It seems to be logical to have two runes of death, for gods and mortals. 蝕まれ、色を失くした太陽は 魂無きデミゴッドの守護星であり 彼らを、運命の死から遠ざけるという The colorless and eclipsed sun is said to be the protective star of the soulles demigods and it prevents their Destined Death (Eclipse Crest Greatshield) So, according to this description Death of the Demigods is Fia's/Deathbirds rune... which in any other part of lore is usually tied with the death of commoners. Also, Ranni stole the fragment of Rune of Death from Farum Azula, which is crucifix-shaped. But her and Godwyn's death broke the eclipsed sun-shaped Death Rune into cursemark and hallowbrand. There are also many other complications, let's assume that it's Farum Azula rune, which governs death of gods and was served by GEQ and eclipsed sun is the death of mortals, which used to be part of the Elden Ring. In that case, why did normal rune of death was affected by the death of demigods? Why is Fia's description of her mending rune is talking about "Death restored"? Like, yeah, I agree that there are maybe two Runes of Death and that's why Melina says " This world is in dire need of repair... and Death...indiscriminate...", probably implying that gods should be mortal too. But logistics of the whole thing is too complicated.

2. "First Defense of Leyndell" - when Rykard and Radahn sieged the capital during the Shattering. Agree with Kristoff and Oleg not dying properly because of Godwyn. 3. I like this idea, but overall death works weird. Morgott decomposed and became spirit. Godrick is still beaten by Gostock, maybe developers oversight.

[yournextflame]

One thing I'm really finding hard to get is hiw Death works in Elden Ring.

During the Golden Order the Rune of Death was sealed, and I've seen many assuming death in general didn't happen anymore and people were all immortals - but what was the point of the Catacombs and the Erdtree Burials then? Also, did such burials just generated TWLID after Godwyn's corspe corruption, making them totally useless? How was death and resurrection administated then?

Something also I can't figure it out is the relation between the Ghostflame and Destined Death - and why the latter was used as a separate power from the former by Godskins - isn't the Deathbirds Outer God supposed to incarnate Death? Why Destined Death seems to be different from it?

I really have no idea how death works and at this point I'm not even trying to understand.

According to Miyazaki, Destined Death governs only death of demigods. I suppose that they are immortal-immortal because of their blood relation to Marika.

Immortality of normal people seems to be based on the grace, as long as they are blessed by it, they are immortal.

But it doesn't explain why there are two Runes of Death - Fia's/Deathbirds and that one in Farum Azula or why some demigods seems to be dead-dead like Radahn even before RoD was unsealed, but others are somewhat alive like Godrick. What happened with the demigods, who died before main character arrived? I don't know what's going on with the Erdtree's Burial either, it isn't supposed to be a common way of dying, it's reserved for the heroes.

There were once heroes who walked the battlefields, abundantly blessed by the Erdtree itself, who upon earning their honor simply died.

 After his banishment, he attracted the notice of the Grace-Given Lord and later, having slain a hundred traitors as the Lord's hand, Oleg earned the hero's honor of Erdtree Burial.

After the First Defense of Leyndell, Kristoff earned the hero's honor of Erdtree Burial for the feat of capturing Godefroy the Grafted.

But, both Kristoff and Oleg has spirit ashes, they didn't retuned to the Erdtree. Where are their bodies? Were they twilded?

There are also only 6 heroes graves, but a lot of regular non-fancy catacombs. Maybe they were used by commoners? Or by "lesser" heroes"? Also, we can find dozens of normal graveyards across the Lands Between, who knows why they exist.

[yournextflame]

@miquellas this is what bothers me, "information recieved from developers" is vague enough, descriptions from the game count too. But there are plenty of things that are specified in this book that are never defined in the game, even in the descriptions they used as a proof. Like Placidusax being not just Elden Lord from the ancient times, but the first Elden Lord in history. Or the nature of the outer gods or where are Numen came from. Was this info taken straight from developers or is this written by FP team based on the personal impressions from the game?

[yournextflame]

More of the Strategy Guide

Okay, Marika' character regressed back in pre-release times, when everyone thought that she destroyed Elden Ring because of Godwyn.

It's implied that demigods were fighting over the shards of the Elden Ring. Meanwhile, Godrick was spared by Malenia and no one even tried to kill him, despite him being the scapegoat of the demigods. Ironically, in version 1.0 Godrick didn't had Great Rune, but was using a fake one, which in my opinion was more fitting and explained why "runt of the litter" wasn't targeted by his far more powerful siblings.

According to the book timeline Night of Black Knives happened at the end of the age of Erdtree. How do I fit Fundamentalism lore into this?

Tarnished are called "successors of Queen Marika", the game says that Empyreans are her successors.

Overall, I don't know how I feel about it. A huge chunk of lore provided by the game feels irrelevant now: Farum Azula, Hyetta's revelation (rip Kale's quests, you died for nothing), all Marika's development, all mentions of Two Fingers being broken and misguided.

[yournextflame]

Some info from the Book of Knowledges

Newly released Strategy Guide provided some interesting lore info, though I have mixed feelings about it. Placidusax is said to be Elden Lord and not just one of them, but the first Elden Lord from primordial times.

However, it seems like we are dealing with discount Bloodborne after all, really not a fan of it, but this is the closest thing to canon we have until potential DLC will clear up the things. I have no idea how this info works with everything from Farum Azula, especially considering Placidusax's lore provided by the same book, but well.

Also, they put Numen and Alabaster/Onyx Lords in the same category as Astels and outer gods (creatures from the starry void), the latter is especially weird since:

A weapon unique to the Alabaster Lords, a race of ancients with skin of stone who were said to have risen to life when a meteor struck long ago [they didn't came from the space, they were born (JP) after the fall of meteorite]

This book is supposed to be created with the help of From; I've heard that Bloodborne guide from this company has some wrong info (Guidance [3] rune; DLC gems that weren't introduced until DLC, but placed in the base guide; Boss Rush Chalice Dungeons; Spider Chalice Dungeons; School of Mensis is switched with the Choir; the conflicting information of Kos), but I'm not going to argue with its lore, despite having a lot of questions, especially about timeline of the pre-historic civilizations.

So far I'm not going to publish/write more large-scale theories about the setting, and everything I wrote before can be considered as "outdated". Gonna focus on the small details and JP.

[yournextflame]

I think v 1.0 heavily points towards that Haligtree statue cradling the two children being of Radagon. It's only encountered in Loretta's arena, and in v 1.0, Loretta's helmet noted that she and the other Carian Knights were sent to the Haligtree by Radagon. Some Carian connection in that statue is also implied by Loretta's boss arena being guarded by Battlemages.

I have a weak spot for cut content, but I doubt that this statue is Radagon's. He and Marika are always shown with braids, the statue in Haligtree doesn't have one. The hairstyle is similar to Godwyn's, tho.

[yournextflame]

I only just noticed that all of Malenia's knights attach red cloth under the back of their helmets, seemingly in direct imitation of her flowing red hair (the helmets are also gold and have wings like hers, and they have red capes like hers and carry talismans said to bear her symbol). Is that the only indication we ever get of what we she thought of her dad? Radahn's said to have his knights' helmets given red plumes to display his pride in being King Radagon's son, was she the same way?

Malenia is redhead too, I think Cleanrot Knights helmets are decorated in her image. Redmanes and Rykard's knight helmets are specifically mentioning Radagon, maybe it was the way to "legitimize" themselves via relation to the Elden Lord because they only attained demigod status after Radagon's second marriage. M-twins doesn't need to do it because they are pureblood god children. Actually, I'd like to know more about relationships between Golden Lineage offsprings and Radagon's, but sadly GL branch is pretty much withered at the end of the Shattering.