#(for higher affection gain... and perhaps loss!! lol)

[bf-rally]

he accidentally fell asleep

[inhonoredglory]

I think Snotlout should have died in HTTYD3. He's been there from the beginning, losing him would be a reminder what's at stake, if they keep fighting. As a character, in the movies at least, he was never entirely redeemed from that competetive bully he was in the first movie, and I think having him die saving Hiccup, would sement him both as a hero and as a painful loss, to drive home how dangerous this war is, and that having dragons stay with the vikings will only cause more pain for all.

Hey anon! This is an interesting proposition. Lots of folks in the fandom were speculating heavily that he might be killed in the third film (especially since he sacrifices himself for Hiccup in the book series). I get what you’re saying about how it might drive home the magnitude of the war and of Grimmel’s threat. Some of us have been postulating that the film needed more of that development in order for the evacuation to feel more relevant, and for the drastic choice of leaving their dragons to feel more necessary in the context of the world.

I want to answer your question in two phases: one about Snotlout’s development, and one about the implications to the film his death might have provided.

The Redemption of Snotlout in the HTTYD Films

First off, I do believe Snotlout did redeem himself, even just within the context of the films.

Of course, outside the films, we get lots of development and growth for him: him growing into a mutual respect and understanding of Hiccup regarding their father’s expectations (Not Lout), his staying in danger to save Hiccup rather than leave him (Sandbusted). He might complain and object to many of Hiccup’s ideas, but in the end of the series, he’s shown to be a loyal warrior who shares a mutual support and respect for Hiccup.

Now, of course the thrust of this question is what’s Snotlout’s arc in the film trilogy. Again, I believe Snotlout does demonstrate significant change from his identity as a bully in the first film: In the beginning of the first film, he’s pretty vicious to Hiccup, getting up in his personal space and making a huge deal out of his jabs at him. He’s doing it because he wants to impress Astrid, he’s doing it to make up for the fact that he (a model Viking) isn’t going to be one leading the village when they grow up, he’s doing it to make up for his own insecurities (with his parental expectations). He’s actually a pretty sensitive, emotional boy––and he makes a marked change in the film from being a bully to being one of Hiccup’s most enthusiastic fans. Once Hiccup begins to demonstrate his skill with dragons in the training ring, we see Snotlout actively trying to buddy up with Hiccup, not undermine him with insults and jeers:

In the end, we see Hiccup basically forgive Snotlout for everything he’s done to him by choosing him to be the first of the teens to befriend a dragon. I don’t think it’s lost on Hiccup that Snotlout, the Viking who wanted the most to be the tough and “Vikinglike” ideal of his culture (and who was most insecure about it, unlike Astrid, who had confidence in her abilities)… I don’t think all this was lost on Hiccup when he chose him to be the one to train the dragon (a Monstrous Nightmare) each one of the gang saw as the most ferocious, most unattainable, most dangerous of dragons (the prize dragon they all wanted a chance to kill at the end of training). By giving Snotlout the honor of befriending this dragon, Hiccup is allowing Snotlout to win––for once, in a reputable, sincere way he can be proud of.

True, Snotlout was a bully. He wanted approval and attention. He attacked Hiccup in order to raise himself up. And when Hiccup became skilled and popular, Snotlout allied with him in order to get close to where the wave of popularity flowed. But when Hiccup let him train Hookfang, it was more than just getting close to the popular kid: Snotlout had to put his trust in Hiccup for a moment, he had to actively show vulnerability to Hiccup. The scene is the pinnacling contrast between where Hiccup and Snotlout have come in the course of the film––now Hiccup is the powerful individual, and Snoltout, the one afraid and undone. But again, this is Hiccup not lording it over Snotlout, like Snotlout has done in all his insults. Hiccup is instead offering a truce, an equality with Snotlout:

So when Hiccup is thought dead, Snotlout reacts with horror and shock and ultimately, when they find him to be alive, tears of joy. This support of Hiccup actually continues in the second film, and while unfortunately we don’t get a lot of action between him and Hiccup, we do get a few significant moments: Snotlout sheds the same earnest tears for Hiccup and Stoick as he did at the end of the first film.

And when Hiccup is made chief at the end, where Snotlout is as happy and thrilled to see Hiccup succeed––this is a direct parallel to his reaction when Hiccup fought the Red Death.

So IMO the films are telling the same story as the series, that Snotlout the bully is actually sensitive and redeemable through the challenging but ultimately successful relationship with Hiccup, his adversary.

Which leads me into the third film.

Sacrificing Snotlout to Weigh the Severity of the Threat in THW

To be frank, I am slightly confused by in terms of their choice of plot for Snotlout. I adore the book allusions of his designs for the chieftainship, but I’m not sure if this particular need of Snotlout was resolved very much for him in the end. I believe his insistence on closeness with Valka is a reaction partly to Stoick dying a year before, seeing how Stoick was a much more reasonable and sympathetic father figure to Snotlout than Spitelout ever was. He didn’t demonstrate any disappointment in Hiccup becoming chief (HTTYD2) and over the series, he’s been ultimately supportive of Hiccup’s future position of leadership. The bitterness in the third film might be a reaction to the vacuum in his life upon the loss of both a place of tribal importance and Ruffnut’s affections (total speculation territory for that one), and especially the threat of masculine dominance with the introduction of Eret to the tribe. Knocking on Hiccup has been his go-to in the first film, and that weakness crops up again in the third film. In the end, he gains Valka’s approval and Tuffnut’s friendship––perhaps a meta on their shared loneliness in their own individual perceived failings in the “Vikingness”/masculinity department (re: Tuffnut’s beard anxiety).

Snotlout, for all the growth he’s done over the series and even over the films, isn’t really given much of a “place” in the tribe in the third film. Valka’s approval of him in the end (him having “the brains” between him and Eret) feels more like a consolation rather than a genuine praise, despite Snotlout taking it at face value. Honestly, I feel that Snotlout is still looking for something, and we’re not sure where exactly he’ll end up in the post-HTTYD3 world.

Which is why a scenario where Snotlout instead dies at the end of Act 2 is actually really attractive. It wouldn’t really be to redeem him from his first movie self, but to give his arc somewhere important to go with his conflict with Hiccup and his belief in Hiccup’s leadership––to continue his arc and bring it full circle in a positive, rather than negative, way. If he had sacrificed himself for the good of tribe, it would more be a continuation of what we’ve seen of him in the series (both films and TV shows), rather than a redemption. It would allow him to pour his long-seen bravado and ambition for greatness into something definite and concrete, a moment where all that growth leads up to. And yes, I’d agree with you here: it would cement him as a hero.

And it would definitely drive the threat home. It was Stoick’s death, after all, that made the Bewilderbeast and Drago’s control of him so powerful and shocking. I’ve said before that the threat in THW needed to be made real on both the personal and global scale. Snotlout sacrificing himself could provide the personal stakes that make the threat feel real, and it would have been a good allusion to the sacrifice of the dragons that must occur later in the film.

However, I can see why DeBlois and Co. didn’t choose this path. Stoick already died in the second film and it’s hard to give that kind of significance to another character’s death, especially when he’s a supporting character and there’s already so much emotional time and energy used on the goodbye between the dragons and humans. I’m not saying it’s impossible, but it’s certainly difficult to pull off.

Additionally, we already have a major sacrifice moment in the third film, with Hiccup letting go of the Light Fury to save Toothless. That moment is important for the emotional heart of the film and having one similar with Snotlout would have been too close a beat in so short a time. Again, it’s not impossible to resolve but it would make it challenging.

You can probably still pull the same themes for Snotlout we’ve been discussing here with him nearly dying in the film. A greater impact of the threat on the lives of any of the gang would make for higher stakes and a feeling that the impact of Grimmel is upon individuals other than Hiccup (so thus we can surmise, the world).

You’ve made me super curious to contemplate a version of THW where this happens and how it might make the overall narrative feel. (*adds to things I may add in my fix-it fic*)

Thanks for the question! I spent hours on it I hope it’s relevant LOL.