#OSDD misconceptions

[bagaluten-sys]

"I love trying my hardest to be a reliable source on information on social media :)"

Two hours of finding sources, checking sources, finding two different sources for the same information, re-checking my phrasing and copying the sources.

"...I...fuck..."

[ratinacoat]

I strongly believe that a lot of (not all) systems think they have such insanely high alter counts because of how fast some will assume that not knowing who you are, thoughts feeling unfamiliar, or feeling like a fictional character means you've split. This happens so much in system Discord servers especially. You don't know who you are? Time to go to the new-alter-help channel and let 4 people play Akinator with you. It's normal not to know who you are when you have DID, just cause the current logged alters don't feel right at the moment doesn't mean it's a new alter. That's just how shit is sometimes.

If this doesn't apply to you or someone you know then I'm not talking about you/them. This is jsut something I've observed a lot in different groups.

[rubys-delusions]

polyfragmentation is not just having 100+ alters (there is no minimum number you need to have), and you dont need to be a ramcoa survivor to have polyfragmented DID.

ramcoa is mentioned a lot in PF spaces because many survivors end up polyfragmented due to the nature of the abuse- but not every PF system experienced ramcoa.

your trauma may not feel severe enough to you to cause polyfragmentation, but just like with DID theres no set bar for what "counts" as traumatizing and what doesnt, especially to the mind of a 0-4 year old.

[certified-silly-guy]

Common misconceptions about systems

That did/osdd is extremely rare

That systems can’t live fulfilling lives

That you shouldn’t give your system friends 80 dollars

[thaltro]

helloo ! ive been wanting to ask if you have any specific tips or things to focus on while writing characters with DID ! im not a system myself but psychology in general has been a topic that ive always been interested in and want to depict it to the best of my ability + i love your art and wish you the best ^^

Good question!

Writing about DID/OSDD is incredibly difficult- even I a system probably couldn’t do it, but I can give you some advice regardless. Obviously saying “research” is expected, but finding good research on it is hard. As always I recommend as a starter for understanding the fundamentals of the disorder : “The Haunted Self: Structural Dissociation and Treatment of Chronic Traumatization” just look that up and I’m sure you can find it on the internet archive or docdriod. As a rule of thumb don’t trust system tiktok, tumblr, carrds, or any personal account to get the majority of your information from just because there’s an incredible amount of misinformation (of course there’s plenty others on there who probably know what they are talking about, but I’d always recommend using credible peer reviewed sources.)

With the research disclaimer thing out of the way here’s a few points:

-It’s a trauma based disorder, everything is structured around trauma. Not just a singular trauma but repeated emotional, physical, and typically sexual trauma that is experienced under the age of 10 (You don’t need all three, just a lot of systems experience a mix of trauma) To write DID/OSDD right you should be able to write child traumatization accurately and be comfortable with writing it.

-There is a vast amount of different experiences with DID/OSDD. There are varying levels of amnesia, alter presentations, system structures etc. not all systems use plural terms, have names for alters, or have much personality differentiation between alters. The experience of a Osdd1a system will be different to a DID system, so you’d probably want to look into the specifics of those differences and stick to one type of system.

-Try to avoid misconceptions and DID tropes in media. The most obvious one I can think of is “the evil alter” trope, there’s quite a lot of demonization of the disorder so you have to be critical when viewing media depicting it (fuck the split movie).

-unless it’s apart of a character arc avoid the uncritical idea that alters are just their source. it’s healthy for them to branch out and expand from their baseline purpose and identity.

As for things I’d like to see in DID/OSDD rep it’d be:

-representing extreme denial

-loss of time

-source separation would be cool

-fusion and dormancy being mentioned

A lot of media hyper focuses on Alters when that is only one aspect of system hood. I think I’d be cool to look at the other symptoms.

But overall, it would be a really hard task to write a system especially without being one. I’m not saying it’s impossible but it’s easy to fall into misrepresentation even if it’s well meaning (it’s easy to do that even if a person is a system, that’s why I’m too scared to write it) If you are going to do it, do a very thorough amount of research before you develop an idea of a character. I know I sound really upset at the idea, I’m not I do really like the idea of representation- but DID/OSDD is such a stigmatized disorder that you have to be so so so careful not to add onto the stigma. I do believe it’s possible to do it right though! I wish you luck and thank you for the compliment.

[corinescorner]

Are people with CDDs suffering? Let’s talk about it.

There's a very common misconception that people with DID or OSDD are inherently suffering, While it's true that they can face challenges--just like anyone in life--having a system isn't just a source of pain and misery.

For many, systemhood is a natural part of who they are. It's how their brain adapted to early experiences, it's how they navigate their world. Systems can find joy, strength, and creativity through their alters and system. They can have fufilling lives, have loving relationships, or pursue their career just like anyone else.

Most system suffering comes from other symptoms of the disorder, such as dissociation, amnesia, etc. That doesn't mean they can't be happy with who they are. But some may genuinely not like being a system, and they're just as valid.

[echoes-in-the-multiverse]

"So, which alter is the real you?"

Written whilst the system was blurry.

This is a personal post with educational explanations.

This question insinuates a few misconceptions about Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID).

Firstly, the word 'real' in this context implies that the asker believes only one dissociative identity truly exists, while the others are either fabricated or hallucinations. This misconception is not only dismissive but also reinforces the harmful stereotype that DID is not a legitimate condition. It perpetuates the false belief that individuals with DID are simply experiencing psychosis or should be misdiagnosed with a different disorder, such as schizophrenia. This misunderstanding can lead to a lack of proper support for those living with DID, who have distinct and valid identities formed as a response to trauma that initially began in early childhood. All dissociative identities within an individual are real. In DID, multiple dissociative identities have the ability to take executive control, allowing them to interact with the environment. However, the ability to take control should not be the sole measure of their reality. Disorders like OSDD and PDID also involve alters who may not be able to or reluctantly take executive control, yet they are equally real. The existence and significance of a part is determined by their role and presence within the system. 

Secondly, the question mistakenly separates the different parts of a person with DID as if they are distinct, individual entities. In reality, each part is a fragment of the whole individual, meaning that every part is the “real you.” This ties into the outdated concept reflected in the name "Multiple Personality Disorder," which suggests that a person with DID has multiple, fully-formed personalities. In truth, DID involves dissociative identities, each representing a fragment of one complete personality. When integrated, these fragments come together to form the singular personality of the entire individual.

This misunderstanding also leads to the belief that the main host is not an alter, and that only the other identities are. The host is an alter, there is no single "core" or "original personality". Many try to explain this through the analogy of a shattered bowl, asking, "If a bowl breaks, which piece is the original?" However, this metaphor doesn’t accurately represent DID because it implies there was once a whole, unbroken personality that fragmented. In DID, there was never a singular, intact "bowl" to begin with. The system’s personality remained divided due to amnesia and trauma and was never able to form one personality. 

A more fitting metaphor is that of a stained glass window. Each piece of stained glass is meticulously crafted to fit with the others, just as each alter in DID is formed by the brain to complement the others. If all parts were to integrate, they would form a complete personality just as a stained glass window is whole when its pieces are assembled. This analogy avoids the implication that something is "missing" or "broken" and instead highlights how each part is essential to the survival and functionality of the individual as a whole. Even when not assembled a stained glass window is not considered broken and people with DID are not broken.

This is a personal post with educational explanations.

Written whilst the system was blurry.

[damagedcoda6669]

okay so i am. so confused! are you a system/plural after all?

you made a post on your twitter about being the "original host" which is. a plural term of course but ALSO i'd like to say that the idea of there being an "original" is veeery misleading and not actually possible in DID/OSDD

the reason DID/OSDD exists at all is because a child's identity was unable to fully form in their developmental years, so the identity splits off and fractures into several parts necessary to keep the child safe. because of this, there can be no "original host" because there was never an identity formed that could be considered the "core," in a way, at all. it gives off the idea that there was one set identity that split off others later on in life, which isnt how DID/OSDD works in terms of alter formation

also, the disorder can only be developed in your early formative years, so its mostly unheard of for a system to go through life with a single part only to split off later on. your brain splits off alters in response to stressors or traumatic experiences, and so when the disorder is formed there would have to have been a fracture from the beginning where your identity wasnt able to come together to form a single one. multiple alters can be "original," in a sense, but there is not one sole original

i suppose that other alters could have simply been integrated and so they arent a part of your system anymore (leaving you as the "original host"), but thats probably not my place to explore and its all a bit too complicated for a tumblr ask

there are parts that have been around longer than all the other parts and there are parts that identify with/as the body or the head of the system, buuuut i just wanted to share that tidbit of information because misinformation can be very harmful when it comes to healthy plurality!!

in any case, dont let this cause you to spiral into more self-doubt because — surprise! DID/OSDD is supposed to be hard to understand or identify within yourself. its a trauma disorder formed to make you as functional as possible, so generally the disorder tries very hard to hide your other parts from you as to protect you from those traumas. being confused is a major part of plurality, and most long-term hosts do have the misconception of being "original" because there was no reason to think otherwise.

its also fully possible that you have been the host for the majority (or entirety) of your life, so dont get me wrong! im just trying to share that the idea of an "original" alter isnt possible.

regardless of whether or not you're plural, i wish you the best in exploring yourself and the way that your brain functions. you're doing great, truly!

and if i misinterpreted anything, im deeply sorry for that too. i'm just a stranger on the internet trying to provide input using the information i was given, and i genuinely dont mean any offense by this ask. DID/OSDD is also something i'm very interested in and passionate about as an autistic individual, so... im very sorry for the essay

THIS IS SO HELPFUL U HAVE NO IDEA. I KNOW NEXT 2 NOTHING ABT PLURALITY AND SYSTEMS. dont apologize 4 the rambling, its much appreciated!!! i get the same way abt bpd and autism so i get it!!! psychology and mental disorders r one of my special interests so im the same way!!! ^_^

i guess my post moreso came from the concern that i only have vry vry spotty, fuzzy, sometimes FAKE memories of my childhood, if any at all (id say i remember less than 1% of it, and most of what i "remember" is only becuz of photo evidence or testimony from other ppl) and my identity only rlly formed when i joined the internet at maybe 12 yrs old. so i sometimes have doubts that i formed when the body was born, but rather that i was created and that im a product of the internet inparticular, but that might also be a delusion??? its confusing, whenever i get ideas abt my identity they turn out 2 be fake sometimes. its hard 2 pinpoint what i am. so i was trying 2 say that i dont think ive been here since the birth of the body and that i spawned later on. idk if im explaining myself correctly, its hard 4 me 2 understand. but i appreciate u correcting me and explaining it 2 me in a way thats easy 4 me 2 digest!!! i dont want 2 spread misinfo evr.

i think im plural??? ive had liek 8 headmates (and a headspace at one point) that ive been able 2 identify, but nobodys rlly taken me srsly abt it until vry vry recently. ive always been told that im making it up 4 attention, or that im faking DID, and i was even told by a dumbass doctor that it was just my autism and that they were all imaginary. i nvr rlly claimed 2 be plural either, i always just got shot down whenevr i introduced the possibility of there being other sentient ppl in my brain. but i think that i am, probably. im not sticking 2 any labels atm becuz im confused and uneducated abt my headmates and im not diagnosed w anything, but i feel comfy with plural as a label becuz its a vague umbrella term. i nevr claimed 2 have DID becuz ive always known that my headmates cant front and take over my body (ive even asked one and she told me she couldnt LOL) ALTHOUGH. they MIGHT be able 2 front simultaneously as me, ive had edgy (whos currently dormant) finish art 4 me if i got tired, back in 2020 when he was still active. and i know alters fronting is a diagnostic requirement for DID (i think???) but i dunno. theres SOMETHING up w my brain.

i tried 2 post abt it on twitter actually, that i thought i was plural (a handful of ppl asked me so i wanted 2 confirm) but i deleted the post like an hour later becuz i wasnt getting any comments or likes and i was scared that i did something wrong and didnt know, or that im not actually plural and other plural ppl were mad at me 4 using their label. it made me so anxious >n<

i am such a yapper.. 4give me

[funnier-as-a-system]

I think with this recent discourse on our blog, we need a quick refresher on certain small details here. Don't worry, this isn't some major discourse post, just some corrections to common misconceptions that we've seen.

For one, no, DID, OSDD-1, and the like are not trauma disorders. They are dissociative disorders that often come from trauma. The primary issue in these disorders is the dissociation (and the problems that causes), not the trauma that may have caused that dissociation, as it would be with a trauma disorder. Tackling trauma is often a step in tackling the dissociation, but that's not the main focus of treatment.

For another, yes, anti-endos count as bigots. They are intolerant and prejudiced against another group for their beliefs, mere existence, and, to quote one definition, "membership of a particular status". The severity of their actions compared to other forms of bigotry does not play a part in whether or not anti-endos are bigots, especially since systems are too unknown to be able to accurately gather data on the exact severity of their actions and effects.

For a third, no, you don't need to have a dissociative disorder to be plural, or a system. Plural is an umbrella term that includes a number of dissociative disorders, but there are people with those dissociative disorders who don't identify as plural, and plurals who don't have a dissociative disorder. "System" is a very general term that has a long history of being used by anyone who considers themselves more-than-one, and thus, also isn't restricted by disorder or origin.

For a fourth, no, I won't read or respond to your hate anons. You just get blocked as soon as I realize you're spouting shit, and then I go and make a positivity post on my other blog about the minority you were bashing. This is a very simple process.

For a fifth, this is a general thing, but I'm going to be giving all these asks (and this post) a specific tag so people can avoid them. The tag will be: why did the inbox explode again I wasn't looking

As a final note, in case anyone's curious, a collection of system resources and links was recently put together on all sorts of systems and *gestures at blog* this sort of "discussion", which may be of interest to anyone who's followed along with all this. Here is a link.

Please keep yourselves safe, everyone. We will be answering some more asks we received when we can.

[bubblegum-bros-sys]

hi so I did some research and I want to make sure I got this right. You talk about endos some so I thought I’d ask you. Feel free to delete for any reason. being endo is being plural without trauma, right? I had to sue urban dictionary bcs there’s rest of the internet doesn’t know ☹️

I know that many cases of plurality (but not all) are bcs of DID which is formed because of trauma.

Endogenic plurality is plurality that was not CAUSED by trauma

Common misconception, this does not mean that endogenic plurals never have any trauma or can’t be disordered

However disorders like DID and OSDD are cause by trauma. An endogenic system can develop said disorders if they experience trauma and it causes the other non-plurality symptoms

Hope this answers your question :33

[thecircularsystem]

Well, now I understand why people syscourse. There’s just so much wrong with this that I don’t want to leave it stand.

If you’re interested in a conversation, dissociative-misinfo, I’d be happy to have one. I don’t feel like you really listened the first time, however, so… know that this post is really for everyone else to understand the flaws of your argument.

A huge misconception I saw was people comparing their claimed plurality to DID/OSDD "plurality." People with DID/OSDD are not plural. People with DID/OSDD are 1 person with severe dissociation that causes them to subjectively believe they are multiple identities/people, but the fact is that they are 1 person and 1 identity.

While this may be the physical representation of CDDs, plurality is an umbrella label. The best definition I’ve seen is “the experience of having multiple autonomous agents in one body.” Would you deny that parts, in DID, work apart from one another and have their own goals, desires, and beliefs?

I’m an individual who uses and benefits from parts language over people-based language, but that does not deny the personhood of my parts. They are no less real and significant. To say they don’t count as plurality simply because they’re parts of a whole is to deny that personhood.

There is no harm in identifying as plural, even as a system of parts. I don’t personally identify as plural, but that’s because plural is an opt-in label, and is one that I do not associate with for personal reasons. One can identify as plural and still recover from DID.

Umbrella labels such as plural contain a large population. I agree with you that most endogenic systems don’t have similar presentations of systemhood as DID systems do! But they can all be considered plural if they would like. There is no harm.

I’ll start with the argument that there's so many endos claiming the same thing, and therefore they can't all be lying. Historically speaking there are many instances of millions of people claiming an experience that is scientifically impossible or blatantly false.

How wonderful, then, that endogenic systems have not been proven scientifically impossible or blatantly false.

Take flat earthers, for example. All known science about anything relating to the earth states and proves that it is round, and yet around 10% of the US believes it is flat, among other conspiracies such as the moon landing being fake. Hell, COVID showed us just how many vaccine and illness deniers there are, almost everyone has at least 1 family member they can think of who denied it.

The roundness of the earth is a scientific fact that can be proven. We can see it from space, and have before; we can study the shadows of obelisks and see the curvature through the angles used.

Covid is a scientific fact that can be proven; it exists, we can see it under a microscope and have, and we can prove the quality of vaccines.

Endogenic plurality is not a scientific fact that can be proven, or at least, has not been proven as of yet. It is a completely subjective experience inside one person’s own head. The sheer amount of people who share that experience indicate that something is happening. They indicate that people are experiencing something.

It would be foolish to suggest that all endogenic systems are DID systems, as the majority do not display the symptoms of DID.

It would be foolish to suggest all endogenic systems are faking, for many reasons (harassment, sheer volume of individuals, length of time claimed to be endogenic, etc).

It would be foolish to suggest endogenic systems are experiencing some other disorder, as many are not dysfunctional or distressed by their plurality.

Simply put, sometimes the easiest answer is the best one. Why not just accept, “That group of people over there say they’re experiencing that, and it does me no harm to accept that”?

As for, "I'm not going to deny someone's experiences." You may not, but science does. Would you "not deny someone's experiences" if their experience was beating cancer with essential oils? Maybe you wouldn't outright, but we can both acknowledge what an outlandish and impossible claim that is. Being an 'endogenic system' when a system is a clinical term for people with DID (an inherently trauma-caused condition) is an impossible claim.

Science does not deny endogenic systemhood.

There are no studies, no articles, not even opinion essays from psychologists, which dictate that endogenic systems cannot exist. Trust me, I had been looking for years (up until I realized that I really, really, could not give less of a shit).

An endogenic system claiming to exist is not the same thing as someone beating cancer with essential oils. One is a personal experience, and one is scientifically not happening. Moreover, scientifically “outlandish” does not make something scientifically impossible; I would make sure you use the clearest language possible.

As for “clinical term…”

System is not a clinical term. At least, it hasn’t been for decades now. It’s a community term to discuss the individual parts collectively… collected. The term was taken in the early 2000s from the natural multiplicity movement — but as that happened, the usage of system took less and less prominence in CDD circles. System had grown in all circles to be an identity, rather than a medical term, and not as many people “identified” as systems.

To discount the communal nature of the term System is to discount countless of endogenic plurals from the 2000s and 2010s who had no other terminology to use. They were told they were systems with DID who did not know their trauma, because what other options were there?

Regardless. The term system hasn’t been a strictly medical term for strictly CDD systems for quite some time (or, even, ever; to see more history, I would suggest this post, along with the sources and links in the post).

(If you're going to claim plurality, that is a spiritual and personal claim, and should not involve you calling yourself a system with alters, because those are clinical terms for pwDID/OSDD, people who are not plural)

Unintentionally — or at least, I hope it was unintentional — you’ve said here that pwCDDs cannot be spiritual or have personal claims to plurality.

Again; “system” is not a medical term. “Alters” is not solely medical either. And this is coming from someone who agrees with you that it would be far better if endogenic plurals used “plural” and “headmate” preferably, to delineate experiences. But that’s not a demand I can make of thousands of people. Nor should I; to delineate that would be to out systems who have trauma based on the words they use.

What harm does it cause? If it is known that endogenic systems exist, that they are different from CDDs, and CDD symptoms are actually discussed, then what harm does it cause to identify as plural? Your entire basis here boils down to, “I don’t like that there’s no science behind it.” To which I respond, you must feel great about xenogenders, contradicting labels, and neurodivergent labels.

Another common argument I saw was comparing endogenic plurality to being transgender, a comparison that will always be offensive and upsetting to me as a trans man. Particularly the terms "sysmed" and "traumascum" I find horrifically offensive.

I have discussed at length my thoughts about sysmed and trauamscum. Thankfully the latter of those two terms has seen a sharp fall in popularity as individuals have absolutely realized how ableist it is.

I am a queer individual myself, with a multitude of gender identities, and consider myself to be under the trans umbrella. I also am frustrated when people compare plurality to gender, particularly as someone who chooses their gender.

However. It must be acknowledged that a comparison is not the same as saying, “these two things are exactly the same.” It’s saying, “there are similarities between these two things.” For instance, the similarities in that plurality and gender are both identity-based labels, meaning both are something someone chooses to identify with. Another would be that those who experience plurality openly are prejudiced against, same as those who display their genders openly.

I’m not saying that gender and plurality are the same, or even the most similar. But comparing bigotry, labeling, and community styles of behavior is not a bad thing inherently. People who are trans are allowed to feel their plurality is similar to their gender identity, and you're allowed to feel uncomfortable about that. Both can be true.

As I understand it, endogenics don't claim to have DID/OSDD. So then, why do they claim to be systems? Systems with alters, who split? A multiple system is a clinical term used for people with DID. "Sysmed" implying that being a system is a clinically defined experience is true, because being a system is exclusive to DID/OSDD. Being a system is not being plural.

This is just a repetition of your earlier point, so do we really need to rehash this?

I will say, again, sysmed is a stupid term and I think it should leave the vocabulary of all those in syscourse. Fuck sysmed as a term. All my homies hate sysmed.

As I keep reiterating, people with DID/OSDD are not plural. They are 1 person experiencing a dissociated identity that may feel like being multiple people, but is objectively not. So with 'system' being a DID/OSDD term, endogenics using it are claiming a non-plural DID/OSDD experience, and thus countering their claim to "not be a part of the DID community" or "be a separate community."

Something being objectively true does not erase what feels true. And sometimes, what feels true is better.

For me, for instance, back to the gender examples: I am, objectively, female. But what feels true sometimes is that I am male. Does that mean I am objectively not male? Does that mean I cannot claim to be male when I feel male?

If we put this in context of CDDs, then obviously, the comparison falls apart. After all, DID isn't something I "feel" like I am. It's something I have; an affliction. But plurality is not that way. Plurality is a feeling; a belief system. To say that CDD systems cannot have a belief system... Well now, you're starting to fall into some serious ableism there.

Endogenics are not claiming a plural CDD experience. They're just claiming a plural one, and they (occasionally, with rapidly decreasing popularity) use the term "system," a term which has been community based over medically based for over a decade now, closer to over two.

As far as "traumascum," I genuinely hate anyone who uses that word. Trauma scum? What has to be wrong with you to come up with a slur for people who have experienced childhood trauma and believe in the disorder caused by childhood trauma? Once again it boils down to plurality not relating to trauma or DID/OSDD, because systems are not plural. They are singular people experiencing severe dissociation.

Agreed with you on traumascum, but again, almost everyone agrees on this, regardless of their stance on endogenic systems. If you really want to rally about it, go to ActingNG and complain. They're who you're actually upset about.

Regardless, once again, plurality is something systems can identify with, and you've never identified any harm in identifying as plural.

It's currently well-known that a LOT of autistic people meet the criteria for, or are diagnosed with, (C)PTSD, and it is uncommon for autistic people to survive childhood without trauma. There's rudimentary theories that autistic people may be more likely to develop DID because of their likelihood to experience childhood trauma either due to low tolerance of negative events, and/or the normalized abuse and neglect of special needs children.

Side note, my therapist fully agrees with this, and the way my systemhood interacts with my autism is... HOO. I could go on for years.

I think with that in mind, it makes sense that being autistic might make you more prone to developing DID, but it doesn't make you mixed origin. Even if your autism is what caused you to experience trauma, the trauma is still what caused you to form dissociated parts/a system.

Cool! That does not mean people are not plural. What harm is there in an individual identifying as mixed-origin? For instance, I identify as mixed origin from time to time, when it pleases me to share that. I have a part who split during a nightmare and resurfaced when he was needed. I have two parts who split due to intentional creation. All of them are traumagenic, but knowing why they split and how has been vital to our steps towards FM. Why is it then wrong to acknowledge those origins, if it's helping me heal?

Saying your system is 'neurogenic' because your autism made you vulnerable to trauma would be like me saying my system is 'moralgenic' because my strong morals are often why my mom abused me. It doesn't make sense, and the trauma from the abuse is what actually caused the symptoms, not whatever about me caused me to be abused.

Again, very interested in your thoughts on xenogenders.

Shoutout to anyone who chooses to identify as a xenoorigin to help them better define their system. If it's helpful to you, more power to you.

And lastly a common argument I saw was people saying the endogenic community is simply nicer to them, which doesn't prove their validity, but is really sad. I personally had this experience when I was pro-endo as a kid, because anti-endos seemed so gung ho about their opinion and pro-endos had an 'accepting everyone' vibe that a child me found comforting.

Nothing is going to "prove" endogenic validity, especially not in a way that most anti-endo systems will accept. I think this should be far more of a red flag to you; the fact that so many said that the pro-endo community accepted them, that so many are pushed away from the anti-endo community due to the sheer horrendous quality of that group.

I say this as someone who was hurt immeasurably by pro-endo systems, and found more solace than elsewhere with anti-endo systems.

But then I got older and I realized why anti-endos are so adamant about endogenic systems not being a possible concept. It's because pro-endos will tell young people struggling with dissociation that their trauma wasn't enough and they must be endo, with a smile on their face. It's because endos will use our DID/OSDD terms like system, alter, split, and insert themselves into our healing spaces, with a smile on their face. It's because endos will conflate DID/OSDD experiences with dissociated parts, to the subjective and unproven experience of plurality, with a smile on their face.

Sigh.

As I got older, I realized why anti-endos are so adamant about endogenic systems not being possible. It's because anti-endos look at endogenic systems existing and rally against them. They look at adults and call them horrible, disgusting, spit in their faces, simply for daring to call themselves a system -- a term which has been community based for longer than the term "endogenic" meant "formed without trauma." It's because anti-endos are traumatized, and many of them refuse to realize they are projecting their fears and abuse onto endogenic systems, never knowing how to stop, how to heal, how to grow.

Because endogenic systems do not hurt people.

Can abusive endogenic systems hurt people? Yes! Obviously. But that does not mean every endogenic system is inherently doing the things you listed (just like how not every anti-endo does the things I listed above). And, again, I cannot express enough how I had those same exact experiences.

I just managed to not project them onto every single endogenic system.

To me, it's very reminiscent of how conspiracy theorists will tell you all about their insane beliefs but because they're kind and welcoming many people fall for it. A community being open and welcoming doesn't say anything to the validity of their beliefs. Anti-endos are more assertive because we have so much to lose in the meaning of our disorder and the danger levels of the online community (the danger being endos grooming people into their beliefs and delaying their healing, such as what happened to me), similar to how people hate COVID deniers because many of them have lost people to COVID or have the potential to lose people as a result of anti-masking and "COVID parties."

I wasn't "groomed" by endogenic systems, but I was told I was endogenic repeatedly. This led to me sticking by my abusers for far longer. This does not negate the possibility of endogenic existence. I crashed by car due to endogenic systems feeding me misinformation. This does not negate the possibility of endogenic existence. I was kicked out of the endogenic communities for not being Plural Enough, Pro-Endo Enough, Kind Enough, etc, and so forth, and so on.

And none of that negates what people are experiencing. That's just people being hurt, and newsflash, traumatized people will get hurt, regardless of what origins the person has, if any, who hurts them.

Is there value in discussing the problems with the online community of endogenic systems on tumblr? Absofuckinglutely, and I do so often. But that doesn't negate what people are experiencing, and doesn't somehow prove that endogenic systems don't exist. It honestly just speaks to me how horrible syscourse is, and how everyone needs educated on CDDs -- something you consistently fail to do on your blog left and right, as you refuse to acknowledge the autonomy of CDD systems repeatedly, even just within this post.

LET PEOPLE FUCKING LIVE THEIR LIVES. I beg this of you.

It genuinely is not hurting us, anymore so than a normal ass person could hurt us.

I see you mention therians. You don't mind them cause they aren't medical. Neither are endogenics. Please just.... stop. Go focus on recovery -- not on endogenic systems and telling DID systems they're not allowed to be plural.

[sky-forest-inn]

i dont really know anything abt systems and i am not one myself

i was under the assumption that the . formation??? of a system can only occur due to childhood trauma but past that point anything goes.

that's probably wrong but idk where to get actual information on this bc i genuinely know nothing

Welcome to systemhood which is the most under-researched thing ever. It can be formed in many different was, most commonly from childhood trauma. Due to how under researched systems are, it’s certainly difficult to find info of them. Your best bet is just learning from systems themselves and their personal experiences. It’s different for ALL systems, so you cant rely solely on One (1) system to tell you the info. I’ll share what I know though!!

I AM NOT A PROFESSIONAL IN ANY WAY AT ALL, I AM JUST SHARING KNOWLEDGE IVE BEEN GIVEN THROUGHOUT THE SPAN OF FIVE YEARS OF RESEARCHING AND LEARNING!!! Anyone (in GOOD FAITH) is free to correct me if i say anything wrong. I am on mobile (and only just woke up) so i cant provide real evidence as im speaking

(Didn’t expect to say so much but i did to the point i need a Read More bracket OOPS lmao)

The most well known systems as of now are CDD (complex dissociative disorder) systems, such as DID (dissociative identity disorder), OSDD (other specified identity disorder) and one other i cannot remember the name for. These ones are frequently (NOT ALWAYS) formed from trauma, typically at a young age and often repetitive or severe

At a very young age, your brain is often split in several parts as it is developing. Often why children tend to switch moods very quickly. As you grow up, your brain slowly pieces itself together into your true personality, however, trauma can cause your brain to remain fragmented, leaving those fragments into being parts/alters/headmates. This is a coping mechanism created by the brain so certain parts can handle unsafe situations

Aside from CDDs, there’s two terms, traumagenic and endogenic. Traumagenic is self explanatory and CDDs will typically fall under there. Endogenic is a umbrella term of MANY formations of systemhod. Spiritual, natural (it just happened some day), willogenic (willed into existence on purpose) and so much more. Some can be both, traumaendo, mixed-origin etc! CDDs can even be endogenic in some way too :]

You can have a trauma formed system, but also have willogenic headmates! You can have a naturally formed system, but also have trauma formed headmates! Hell, some systems will not even know their origin and that’s okay!!!! You do not need a label for your system!!

Both terms were coined by a traumagenic system i believe??? Who is also pro-endogenic, so anyone who is antiendo using those terms, do remember that (:3

——————————————

Alters/headmates/parts can be different just as much as systems can be. Some can just be emotional states, some can be voices, some can be fragments, some can be completely unique and (mostly) complete individuals. Even in one system alone, alters can differ between all of these! Some systems can only have 2 headmates, some have some between 10-30, some can have 100+, some can even have 1000+

There are also alters that are called introjects, who are formed from a certain someone/something (very often out of their control). They can be a factive (formed from a real life person), fictive (formed from a fictional character), songtive (formed from a song) and soooo much more!!! Some can even be mixed, some can have more than one source!

A common misconception is that introjects will form from comforting sources, or sources the system holds really closely, but quite a lot of systems actually have introjects from things they hate, or hell, are even triggered by. Introjects are very often formed from things they dont want to be formed from, and do not act the exact same way as their sources

Proof? We have a fictive of a shapeshifter from an among us series. Source is a heartless and evil killer who manipulates people. Our fictive though? Genuine sweetheart, often shy and anxious but loves her sourcemates so very much! Hell, Juli (💎) is with me right now and is a good example. Her source (julian arcane odyssey) is a genuine asshole with extremely high ego and brags to hell and back about his accomplishments. Juli here is just a girl trying to live and play games while being silly with her QPP and her friends!

That being said though, some introjects WILL act almost exactly like their sources, and this is okay!!! Even those split from absolute asshole of a person. Systemhood is often a part of healing, and that includes from individual headmates too. Recovery is different for all headmates and systems and it’s best to let them figure out how they should handle their struggles and the such

——————————————

Systemhood is extremely complex, it differs from system to system, and headmate to headmate. Some prefer plural or collective, some prefer parts, headmates, alters, personalities. Some CDDs will even prefer MPD (multiple personality disorder) [known to being an outdated term] instead of DID or OSDD and that’s okay!!

Everyone will have divided opinions over how systemhood works, but the MOST IMPORTANT thing to understand is, it’s NEVER black and white, there will ALWAYS be nuance, and honestly my #1 thing to remember is: if it’s in good faith, live and let live

Sharing terminology isn’t stealing. Sharing resources isn’t stealing. It’s called SHARING, and everyone deserves resources that can help understand themselves better and live an easier and better life. It’s good to interact with a diverse amount of systems, to share different perspectives, to understand each other, and show compassion and support for one another

It’s why, while i can understand many systems wishing for seperate spaces, it’s also good to share some spaces once a while. You don’t HAVE TO be in shared spaces, but i feel as though it will genuinely help in the long run. But as always, live and let live, and do what you feel is safe for you so long as it’s not harming anyone else

——————————————

With that aside, we ourselves are an OSDD-1b system! While we’re not safe sharing our trauma, i (💛aristris) am one of the trauma holders for some of our worst years of our life. While many CDDs typically experience memory amnesia/barriers, we don’t. Instead, memory is perceived differently from headmate to headmate. Many will remember my trauma more vaguely, fuzzy or blurry (but still remember them happening), while I can remember it clear as day, almost as though it only happened last week.

We often experience emotional amnesia more. One fronter will be absolutely pissed off upset, another fronter takes over while they cool off and can be the chillest and sweetest person ever. We tend to act really “mood swingy” because of this, especially when unmasked

We’ve recently surpassed 100 headmates lately, and we’re incredibly diverse in terms of such. Majority of us are mostly formed, though some are still fragmented or hard to see/communicate with. We’ve grown to enjoy each others’ company, though we still have a few bad apples we have to keep an eye on

Our fronting style can actually differ and never sticks to one method. Sometimes it feels like the clap of a hand switch, sometimes we meld into each other a bit before one takes over, very often we can see each other in frontspace and take turns (though that often causes a headache)

We have like two outer brainspaces. One’s our headspace which consists of a copy of the Upturned Inn from The Upturned and a pretty forest beside it, and the other is… the void. But we dont talk about that!!!

Our headspace memories actually tend to be really vague upon joining front. Some remember headspace memories better than others. And sometimes front memories can get really blurred upon joining. Our headmates have to wait quite a bit for our memory to relog and catch up with us, hah

We’ve known about systems for five whole years now, and two and a half of those years, we denied ourselves ENTIRELY. We were constantly surrounded by gatekeepy systems who were antiendo and would lose their shit over a system having even a Slightly Different experience than they do. Hell, weve seen COUNTLESS CALLOUT POSTS just for suspected sysfaking. It was a dangerous space for us and because of it, we refused to ever accept the idea we were a system

After all that time, we met who is now our partner system, the Lucky Clover Collective, who were the first ever pro-endo traumagenic (or mixed origin) system we ever met. We got to comfortably discuss systemhood, including endogenic systems, and they gave us the space we needed to at least give systemhood a go. In almost 2 weeks, it will be the first year anniversary of when we finally embraced our systemhood!!

Systemhood has a hell lot of struggles. Trauma relapses, headaches, difficult headmates, emotional disregulation, but we’d never trade our systemhood for anything in the world. This system has saved us so many times, made us feel safer and embrace ourselves for who we are easier. I used to hate everyone here, being a former persecutor, but ive learnt to love my headmates as much as they love me and i couldnt be happier with how we grew finally embracing systemhood

… i hope all thats shares enough!! haha, sorry i yapped so much, i think i may have gotten overly passionate, hah. I hope you can learn from this and from many others too, and most importantly, take care of yourself!!! Thanks for reading lol

[the-indigo-symphony]

Shout-out to endogenic systems with disorders like DID, OSDD-1, P-DID, and UDD! I know it's hard when people don't understand that origins don't equal having or not having a specific disorder. Even within inclusive spaces, the misconceptions that traumagenic = must be disordered and endogenic = must be non-disordered get spread around, not to mention how traumaendo systems with or without a disorder get treated by this whole shitfest, so I wanted to give you guys a shout-out and remind you all that you are fantastic!! Keep being yourselves and take care of yourselves!!

(Also, a special shout-out to my fellow traumaendo and mixed origin systems with DID! Hello, same hat!!)

[beepykay]

osdd-1b to did to c-did pipeline. why does it exist? (a ramble)

if i had to guess it seems like c-did is better at hiding amnesia in comparison to “normal” did. at least this is what ive gathered from my own experiences and speaking with others. it seems like c-did also has more varied types of amnesia between parts. so some parts will have no amnesia between them, some have blackout, etc. not that this doesn’t happen in normal did but i think it’s less common. so many newly discovered cdid systems might assume they’re osdd1b because at first it seems like there’s no amnesia at first. oh and then also there’s a misconception in the community that you can have a degree of amnesia and osdd1b when that’s not true. even if you only experience “grey outs” you have to be did. thats a side tangent but i feel like people think you have to have blackouts to have did and no you just have to have any sort of amnesia. i also think that the first few alters they discover in these systems tend to be “closer” as in they work together closely since usually it’s a host(s), caretaker(s), protector(s) that front a decent bit that get discovered first, so it makes sense there would be less amnesia between them. idrk though, curious what other people think/what other’s experiences are with this.

[thaltro]

this ask is a free pass to talk abt did/osdd as much as you want 👍

I love these free passes..thank you..please give me more 🫶🏽

Spending my pass on a rant about the online perception of DID/OSDD

One thing I find interesting is the concept of fake claiming and how that’s affected the community. In 2020 there was a large increase in mental health “awareness” online- mass vague posting of common symptoms and connecting it to larger disorders. This eventually lead to a lot of people misdiagnosing themselves with DID/OSDD. And Contrary to popular belief, I actually think most misdiagnosing was in good faith- younger teens for the first time connecting to disassociation, maladaptive day dreaming, emotional swings, PTSD, and derealization- and genuinely believing they had it. It’s more likely they had more common disorders like maybe Bpd, DDD, depression, psychosis- because there is a huge overlap in symptoms. (It’s also important to note it was also a huge awakening for actual systems too- because I’m definitely not saying everyone who had did/osdd in 2020 was misdiagnosed, in a lot of cases people were right!)

Buttttt

The internets reaction to this wasn’t with reeducation or kindness or even respectful criticism- it created a whole list of “faking signs”. I personally think the people who misdiagnosed themselves harmed the community much less then the people pushing for constant fakeclaiming. And now these arbitrary concepts plague actual systems pushing them into a deeper denial and opening them up to waves of unwanted harassment. Like ok, here’s some common misconceptions you’ll see (all the ones I’m listing are just bullshit and are contradicted with actual medical research)

-Systems can’t have fictives

-Systems can’t unmask

-Systems can’t have littles

-Systems can’t have factives

-Systems can’t have internal relationships

-Systems can’t have high amnesia

-Systems can’t have rapid switches

-Systems can’t have faceclaims or go by different genders/sexualities

ALL OF THIS IS BULLSHIT! None of these actually are backed up with medical research! And the worst part is I see groups of people just harass normal systems who show these normal symptoms and constantly fakeclaim them. I see cringe compilations, r/fake disorder cringe, tik toks, and video essays just spewing this nonsensical shit and it genuinely hurts. (It’s SO ANNOYING when they say shit like “people who do this hurt actual systems” YOUR HURTING ACTUAL SYSTEMS SHUT UP 😭) but Yes I do think there are people out their who do fake this disorder and use it to hurt and manipulate people. But I don’t think that’s the majority of misdiagnosed people. Even if someone was wrong I think it’s safer to just ignore them then to spread misinformation about DID/OSDD and encourage the possible harm onto genuine systems. (Also being wrong and admitting you are wrong is fine)

But yeah I’ll end my rant by saying If you support this weird online fakeclaiming witch hunts then I don’t want to associate with you. And to the self diagnosed systems or suspecting systems, it’s incredibly hard being in that position- harassment is almost guaranteed online and that sucks. Self diagnosis is valid especially if you can’t afford DID specialists- however with that statement If you do self diagnosis its necessary to do research. Don’t look at plural pedia or random websites- I recommend reading the DSM and The haunted self (it explains the fundamentals of structural dissociation)

PDF for the actual book ^^ (it’s also good for self diagnosed systems because it can help you weed out any other possible disorder overlap with BPD and PTSD)

But yeah 🙁 sorry for the rant I’m just really frustrated with the current climate of the internet especially for systems.

[forget-meabh-not]

Hey friend it's the Murderscene! I'm sorry you feel so ignored :( if you want I'd love to hear about what you were saying/nf

-💿🔪 (making us an anon thing..)

Eee hi friend !!!

and well we were talking about like trauma and how like theres like a misconception that trauma disorders / disorders based in trauma ( like DID/OSDD and PTSD/C-PTSD ) can only be caused by “extreme” trauma ( aka physical abuse , sa , severe neglect, fighting in a war<- referring to PTSD here ) but that’s not actually the case at all and it’s silly to us that people believe that sort of thing , like it doesn’t matter how quote on quote “ extreme “ the trauma is it mostly matters on how the brain reacts to it and perceives it :3!!! We also were talking about how we disliked people trying to say what can and cannot be traumatic as like , sure some things might not be traumatic to you but to someone else they could be , whether that’s due to it being associated with another traumatic event OR cuz their brain like ,, perceived that event as traumatic :3!

sorry for the kinda maybe badly worded rant ^.^,

-Link and Vee

Note to add; just cuz something Commonly co occurs with / is caused by what people see as “extreme” trauma does not mean that it’s like the only trauma that can cause it/ co occur if that makes sense