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asgardian--angels · 22 days ago

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mage viktor discourse again on twitter and all i can say in my little corner over here once again is, I don't know why the entire fandom takes it as canon that mage Viktor failed to save every world he manipulated.

Canon does not provide evidence of this. This is fanon speculation. It's a fine headcanon to have, but everyone talks about it like it's canon when it isn't. Canon is ambiguous about the outcome of the timelines mage Viktor altered. The little nods we are given point, in my opinion, towards the opposite conclusion, that he successfully averted destruction.

I've written meta on this before but in summary:

1) 'In all timelines, in all possibilities' is worded precisely, it's not 'out of all timelines'; the implication is that every time, Jayce brings Viktor back from the brink, not just in our timeline. 'Only you' doesn't refer to our timeline's Jayce, it refers to all Jayces. Jayce always brings him home. If Viktor continuously put the fate of each timeline in Jayce's hands and Jayce failed over and over, I don't think he'd say those words. And the way he says them matters. His words are tinged with wonder, not sorrow. As if over and over again, he is shown that Jayce saves him, and it continues to amaze him. He doesn't sound defeated, like this is the next in a long line of Jayces he's sending off to die. The feeling is that Viktor's faith in Jayce has not been misplaced.

2) If mage Viktor doomed every timeline, there would be hundreds (or more) mage Viktors. All running around manipulating timelines. I highly doubt the writers wanted to get into that kind of sticky situation. The tragedy of mage Viktor is that he is singular. Alone. Burdened with the responsibility of the multiverse. The emotional gut punch of his fate is ruined if other timelines led to the same outcome, and from a practical standpoint, having multiple reality-bending omniscient mages would rip apart the fabric of the arcane.

There are other points, such as there being only one corrupted Mercury Hammer and our Jayce is the only one to receive it, and the fact that if mage Viktor is as omniscient as he is implied to be, he could easily step back into other timelines and correct course, because it's highly unlikely he could sit still and watch things go down in flames. But these things can be argued elsewhere.

While I love conversations about mage Viktor's motives and selfishness vs altruism, the writers & artbook have expressed that Jayce and Viktor care greatly about Runeterra and want to fix their mistakes to save it, and that their reconciliation is symbolic of Piltover and Zaun coming together as well. Yes, they make disastrous decisions towards each other, making choices for the other or without the other, which has negative consequences for their relationship and for Runeterra - but I think fandom pushes their selfishness even past what's canon sometimes, as if their entire goal hadn't always been to selflessly help the world around them. Their final reconciliation is about bridging the gap that grew between them - the pain and grief and secrets, betraying themselves and each other - to mutually choose each other openly and honestly. Part of the beauty of their story, as expressed by the creators, is that in their final moments, they chose each other and took responsibility for their actions by sacrificing themselves to end what they started, together - and that choosing each other saved the world. TPTB have stated this - that Jayce and Viktor are the glue holding civilization together, and when they come back to each other, they can restore balance. It's when they're apart, when they hurt each other and miscommunicate, when they abandon their commitment to each other and their dream, that the greater world suffers. Their strife is mirrored in the story-world at large.

Mage Viktor is framed as a solitary penitent figure, damned to an eternity of atoning for his mistakes. He paid the ultimate price and now is forced to live his personal nightmare of exactly what he was trying to avoid for himself with the glorious evolution. The narrative clues we're given point more in the direction that he saves timelines rather than dooms them. If Viktor's actions kept killing Jayce, the very boy he couldn't bear to not save each time, it would undermine these narrative choices. Yes, Viktor couldn't stand to live in a world where he never meets Jayce, so he ensures it keeps happening. But in that same breath, he couldn't bear to see a world where his actions continue to destroy Jayce and destroy Runeterra. His entire arc in s2 is born of his selfless desire to help humanity, help individual people. He would not lightly destroy entire worlds. That's his original grief multiplied a thousandfold, and narratively it would lessen the impact of the one, true loss he did suffer, his own Jayce. It wouldn't make sense for him to be alright with damning other timelines to suffer the same catastrophic tragedy that created him. I mean, maybe I'm delusional here, but is that not the entire point? Because that's what I took away when I watched the show.

As I said, I love discussions about mage Viktor, as there's a lot to play with. All I wish is that the fandom at large would not just assume or accept the Mage Viktor Dooms Every Timeline idea as canon, when there is nothing in the actual canon that confirms this. Maybe people need to just, go back and rewatch the actual episode, to recall how mage Viktor is presented to us, and what it's implied we're supposed to take away from his scenes, and separate that from the layers of headcanon the fandom has constructed.

#arcane #mage viktor #jayvik #viktor arcane #meta #this is like. along the same vein as 'jayce knew all along viktor would go to the hexgates during the final battle'#like that is a headcanon. we don't know that!!#the actual scene could be read either way and i know when i watched it that's not how i interpreted it #and i doubt it's how most casual viewers intrepeted it #fandom gets so deep into itself after a show ends that you really have to just. rewatch the show to recalibrate yourself lol #for all that people bicker about mage viktor yall dont include him in your fics v much lol #anyway i love mage viktor and he's probably my favorite version of viktor <3 #i just wish fandom stopped insisting on a monolithic view of canon #and the idea that mage viktor fucked over hundreds of timelines to collect data points like a scientist is just #rubs me the wrong way as a scientist lol #you do realize that scientists don't treat everything in life like a science experiment right?#it's about inquisitiveness and curiosity. not 'i will approach this emotional thing from a cold and calculating standpoint'#viktor has never been cold and calculating. he's consistently driven by emotion in the show jfc please rewatch canon #i just think that people would benefit from a surface level reading once in a while lol #sometimes fandom digs so far into the minutiae that they forget the overarching takeaways that the story presents #assuming there must be some hidden meaning that sometimes (like this) is decided to be the literal opposite of what's presented #rewatch mage viktor's scenes and ask yourself if 'deranged destroyer of worlds' is really what the show was trying to have you take away #then again there seems to be a faction of this fandom that for some absurd reason thinks jayce was forced to stay and die with viktor #so i guess media illiteracy can't be helped for some lmao #i post these things on here because my twitter posts get literally 10 views thanks algorithm #so the chunk of the fandom i really want to see this will not #but i must speak my truth

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flare-dragon · 1 year ago

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Ron's Gone Wrong: An Analysis

I recently rewatched (most of) Ron's Gone Wrong and remembered a few reviews I'd read of it, describing how its message seemed muddied and not very clear...which, ultimately, is true.

But, with that said, there's something I realise about it that it almost gets right (literally, all the way up to its second-last climax is so perfect, and even its ascent to its final climax is still consistent with this realisation). The realisation is that there's one thing it describes really well:

Artificial/Algorithmic "Friendship" vs Organic Relationships

It seems almost simple or obvious that this is the message the movie tried to portray, but the way that it ultimately ended tells me that they either missed the point they were making or someone else forced them to have a different ending (sadly, I think it's the former). I cannot call it a bad movie for missing that point (it's still one my most watched recent movies), but it makes me wonder what it could've been had it brought this point home.

So, without waffling on for too much longer, here's a quick analysis on how it goes about this message, and why it's a good message that doesn't inherently contradict the pervasiveness of social media (even if it also didn't do much about that point)

Barney vs Friendship

The beginning of the movie shows us a "revolutionary invention", designed for making friends: The Bubble Bot (B-Bot for short). From the get-go, we're given a presentation of what the modern friend-making dynamic intends to be: Interact with interests and media, share them online, and the algorithm uses that to help connect with others who shares those interests and enjoyment of media. It's an intentional reflection of modern social media, albeit a somewhat simplified version.

It quickly shifts to a large number of kids connecting to their B-Bots for the first time in a short montage, cut at the end with a hand touching a similarly-coloured door. An assumedly unintentional, but well-placed, contrast and summary of the story. Here we meet Barney.

Without rehashing too much of the beginning of the movie, we learn that everyone else at his school (supposedly?) has a B-Bot and he's the only one without it. Similarly, he doesn't have any friends he talks to during school (or outside of it apart from family). He himself states that he "kinda, actually" needs a B-Bot to make friends these days. One could call this a simple set up to the idea of "You won't make real friends using computers" by starting us off with a B-Bot-less Barney...if it weren't for the fact that he gets one the next day.

This is when we really start to see what I mean by "Barney vs Friendship": His attitude towards what his new B-Bot should be is pretty consistent with how everyone else has been using them: "You are meant to be my friend, and know everything about me." It's hammered in later on during the friendship montage, with Barney making a board on "How to be my friend" (underline by me).

Barney's perception of friendship, then, is revealed as "You are my friend. You are on my side. You like the things I like." A very selfish and self-centred perception. This might seem to set up Barney to be a selfish person...but isn't that how the algorithm is supposed to work? Finding people with the same interesting ("the things I like") and rejecting those who don't share it (which we see at the school, two B-Bots rejecting each other, and thus the two kids, Savannah and Ava, simply walk away from each other). It isn't Barney's fault his understanding of friendship is like this. He's been inundated and surrounded by it.

Barney vs Ron

Up to this point (after the school "riot"), we see Ron as trying so hard to be Barney's friend, to the point of taking Savannah's words to heart and going outside to find people to be friends with Barney (since Ron wants to not be pointless and is connected to Barney). It isn't until now that Ron asks the question: "Barney, are you my friend?"

Barney's response is typical and expected: "What do you mean? My dad bought you for me." After all, Ron is just a robot, right? It does make the idea of the message "Artificial Friendship vs Organic Relationship" difficult to apply since Barney literally doesn't see Ron as a person. He's just a self-moving machine designed to be a friend.

But, interestingly enough, that makes Ron a perfect vehicle for the message. A machine that was intended to just follow the algorithm, instead forced to (and willing to) create their own way through life by whatever limited tools it has access to. Even in the moments Barney sees Ron as just a machine, he's also treated him as an important person in his life.

When they meet up again in Barney's shed, it all finally shifts into what it always should've been: A two-way street. They'd already spent so much time bonding, regardless of the way they'd perceived each other before then (Barney seeing Ron as just a friend machine, Ron seeing Barney as the one person he needed to be a friend to), that the change to actually being a friend to each other and allowing each other's individuality to shine but never be the only priority allows them both to be better friends, differences and all.

To contrast, we also follow in pieces the journeys of Savannah, Rich, Noah, and Ava's own experiences with their functioning-as-intended B-Bots. We see Savannah and Ava miss an opportunity to be friends (and Ava's loneliness from very few B-Bot owners showing an interest in science). We see Noah's constant struggle to be at the top of the leaderboard. We see Rich attention-starved and making as much "content" as he can just to get some. Instead of exploring the possibilities of relationships with people who may not share the same interests, they're steadfast focused on what they're used to, never really getting a chance to evolve it into something more joyful (more on that later)

Barney & Ron vs The World

...a dramatic subtitle, but this is when the two of them run off, away from Bubble's attempt to capture Ron to stem the damage they've seen from him. Barney still doesn't have any friends aside from Ron, and Ron doesn't have any friends aside from Barney. Barney refuses to lose his one and only friend, so they run off, separated from the rest of the world, and just...enjoy each other's company.

In the montage and subsequent scenes, we see more bonding from both of them. Ron is still trying to be a good friend, but Barney gives him a chance to say things for himself and to do things for himself, even if Barney doesn't like it. Even when they argue later from the stress of living outdoors in the woods, they stick together and try to keep warm.

There's not a lot to say about these scenes, except that we see a very stark differences from when they'd first met. It's almost as if this is where we get to see how far they've come as friends. We've seen the relationship grow over time, shifting from seeing each other as a particular purpose into treating each other as individuals. A shift that would've been impossible if Ron simply followed the same algorithm the others did.

Would Barney have found friends if Ron functioned as intended? Would Ron have shown the personality he does if he had ever been connected to the Bubble Network? Would there have ever been a discussion on how to actually make friends? It isn't until later that we find a likely answer to all of these: No. Barney would have fallen into the same trap every other B-Bot user did: A constant hunger for validation that only resulted in disconnection and loneliness.

It al comes to a head when they both find themselves in danger from being caught by Bubble (by remote-controlled B-Bots being controlled without user consent or knowledge. Makes one wonder~). Barney does everything he can to hide and protect Ron (which only succeeds due to Andrew's complete disregard to human life), even risk death from asthma. Ron then does everything he can to ensure Barney doesn't die in the woods, even if it meant being taken away and destroyed.

It's a beautiful relationship, given a chance due to them having to discover who each other were over time and in an organic matter. Ron had to learn Barney's interests manually and even began to observe new things about him over time. Barney shifted the way he looked at Ron to seeing him as his own person, and spent the time to learn his own likes and desires.

Barney vs "Ron's Gone Wrong"

I figure it's also important to include where - in my opinion - the movie loses the message and the storytellers mess up. In the last segment of the movie, we have Ron having been connected to the Bubble Network and losing everything that made him unique, each interaction with Barney being a shallow facsimile of what made Barney become best friends with him (right down to Ron's individuality being erased).

I'm sure there was a way to make this work, but it instead has Barney try to rescue Ron's personality (a backup Marc created somehow) and then, after getting it back, Ron sharing his personality with every other B-Bot (due to seeing how the original algorithm just lead to sad kids disconnected from each other) at the cost of his own life (although that's technically ambiguous, especially with the ending).

I'm...not sure what the intent is, but it misses something big. What made Ron special to Barney was not simply that he existed outside of the mould that every other B-Bot was forced to fit into. It was that Barney got to know him and his eccentricities, and Ron got to grow and evolve alongside Barney. They both grew organically alongside each other, and demonstrated the need for a more natural approach to friendship making compared to the rigidity of the algorithmic connections that occurred through the B-Bots (and not questioning this algorithm or given much chance to examine the issues).

By simply sharing Ron's personality to every other B-Bot, it only really achieves one thing right in relation to the message: It forces each person to operate on their B-Bots level and develop their own connection to their now-chaotic buddy (I suppose not focusing on "online vs offline" as far as friendships go was also a good point for it, as it didn't really feel like a strong enough point for the movie and there's better ways to go about such a message.)

Had there been a greater focus on how it was that Barney's friendship had developed - or at least some kind of portrayal that the updated B-Bots weren't just copies of Ron but had actually become wide and varied individuals for their owners(?) to get to know - the ending might've been able to work better. Ron's sacrifice was a tragedy, but it displayed Ron's sheer selflessness and self-developed kindness and generosity.

If there's one scene that at least supports the message of "Artificial/Algorithmic Friendship vs Organic Relationships", it's the moment Barney sees how unhappy his former-now-again friends as they stare at their B-Bots screens and try to make some semblance of happiness, however shallow it is. Having a contrast of their artificially-built connection compared to Barney and Ron's hard-earnt friendship felt like a good way to help demonstrate the point. I just wish it could've lead to a more satisfying ending.

Barney and Friends

This is just a short little bit, but I wanted to at least point out one other good thing that happens in the last segment and ending. Barney may have started out friendless, but his friendship with Ron and Ron's selfless sacrifice (to get him medical attention) allowed Barney to reconnect with his former friends. It was a moment of realisation for Savannah, Ava, Noah, and Rich: After all this time, they let their friendship decay and be lost.

Seeing them, then, be together and hanging out alongside Barney? It showed another element of an organic relationship: Organic connections. Algorithms can give you other connection points, but it may leave you limited to other perspectives too similar to your own. Organic connections, though, force you to figure out if this thing that you never really thought about before is something you like or not, and if this person's appreciation and interest in it is something you like. It's one of those things that can just grow on its own and become something beautiful.

Just to note: I do not believe online friendships are worse than offline relationships, nor more shallow. Rather, it's algorithmic friendships that fall flat. The power of the internet is that it lets you get in touch with so many people you normally wouldn't have the chance to. Leaving it entirely in the hands of an algorithm (and not thinking critically about it) has you miss out on the beauty of the mish-mash nature of the internet. It's why Tumblr's such a fun place to be~ ^^

Conclusion

So yeah. The thing that always disappointed me most about the movie isn't that it didn't stick the landing. It's that it has such a beautiful message and the story it tells is so heart-warming and charming, but the message isn't carried to the end so you wonder if it was ever intended (I believe it was, but it's hard to say).

Seeing the way Barney and Ron's friendship evolves - and the way they each grow as individuals - contrasted with everyone else using B-Bots as they were originally designed/programmed makes for a pretty compelling portrayal of the differences between a friendship formed and informed by entirely through an algorithm, and a relationship that grew from organic interactions that, even when influenced by expectations from and of each other, created something much more different and complex and much more fulfilling for the two of them.

It's a beautiful friendship, and it's still worth watching to the end~

Bonus

It's more a funny coincidence I noticed, but the way that Andrew kicks Marc out when Ron loses his individuality, and then how Andrew was removed and Marc taking charge again when Ron's personality was distributed to every other B-Bot? Almost feels like its own reference to that message (Algorithmic Friendships may be ubiquitous and everywhere, but ultimately Organic Relationships will last the test of time)

A funny comparison honestly~

#rons gone wrong #ron's gone wrong #analysis #hetalks #theytalk #This is all first draft so don't expect it to be all that concise or completely consistent ^^''#...this also might be the longest post I've made XD #But I really do feel passionate about this movie. I rarely rewatch a movie so soon after its initial watch.. but I watch this movie about #4 times within 3 days including the day I initially watched it #And it stuck with me based on pretty much everything within the movie. The concepts.. the sounds.. the characters? So good~#And it wasn't until now that I could formulate what it was about the story I loved and what about the ending I just didn't enjoy #It was never about the dangers of social media (though it definitely used that as part of its story).#It was always about the restrictions of the algorithm and the freedom - and challenges - of not having one (in regard to making connections #...though I wanna say its most likely biggest intended message was ''Making friends'' and how the algorithm will never make as good a frien #as something made with your own two hands seemed more something that just came with it due to how it told that story

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