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thankskenpenders · 6 months ago

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Thoughts on Sonic 3!

On December 10th, 2018, I was on the last day of a trip to Milwaukee. The night before, I'd attended the wedding of one of my best friends, Jake, who I've known since high school. Even though half of us were sick the whole trip, it was a great time. Derek had asked the wedding DJ to play "One Week" as the first request of the night, and proceeded to lip sync the entire song on the dance floor. On that cold winter morning in a hotel room hundreds of miles from home, Derek and I groggily checked Twitter on our phones and saw the shocking news: Paramount had teased the design for Sonic from their upcoming live action film. Even in silhouette, the shape of his face and the realistic curvature of his limbs made him look like a grotesque little homunculus. This movie was going to suck.

Six years later, I've now seen the third entry in what's become a hugely successful Sonic film franchise. It features Keanu Reeves as the voice of Shadow the Hedgehog in a fairly faithful adaptation of his story from Sonic Adventure 2. At the time of writing, it currently sits at a whopping 86% positive rating on Rotten Tomatoes, vying for the title of the best-reviewed theatrically released video game movie of all time. Critics are saying nice things about the emotional journey of Shadow the Hedgehog. Never in a million years did I think I'd see this day.

I, too, have now seen this movie, and... yeah, it's pretty good.

I'm gonna get deep into spoilers here, so I'll just say up front that I liked the movie. It feels like just about the best possible execution of this version of Sonic. But��that's also damning it with faint praise, depending on who you ask.

If you're a fan of the games who didn't like the second movie, you probably won't get much out of this one, either, unless you just really love Shadow so much that nothing else in the movie matters to you. It doesn't reinvent the wheel for this film series. It's still got a heaping helping of broad comedy, cheap pop culture references, bad one-liners, and characterization that diverges greatly from the source material. This is not high art, nor is it a direct adaptation of Sonic Adventure 2. If you're the kind of person who hates this portrayal of Sonic and Eggman, or a lore nerd who'll hate that they let Shadow do Chaos Control without an Emerald, then just don't bother with this.

On the other hand, if you did enjoy the last movie, then you'll probably have a fun time here, too. Shadow is very cool. The action is the best it's ever been. There's a bit more focus on characters from the games, and less on human characters invented for the movies—with the exception of Agent Stone, who's in this a lot because everyone likes him. There's a lot of SA2 fanservice. They even play "Live and Learn." It's a fun time! Be sure to stick around through the end credits.

And now, to dig deeper, let's get into the spoilers! I'm gonna jump around a lot and talk about different aspects of the movie, spoiling everything along the way.

Shadow and his reams of lore

Here's the main thing you came for: Shadow is great in this! They really did him justice. Keanu Reeves is extremely solid in the role. He can be a bit flat as an actor sometimes, but I think he did well here. He can be tough and menacing, but he can also be earnest and emotionally vulnerable. Good casting call. Excited at the prospect of seeing more of him in the future.

Really, as a Sonic Lore Nerd I'm most interested in discussing the changes they made to Shadow's backstory. I'm sure there will be many fans upset with the changes, but for the sake of streamlining a complicated backstory that was subject to a bunch of retcons and multiple layers of amnesia and fitting it into a 110-minute movie, I think they generally made smart choices.

For one, Gerald didn't create Shadow using Black Arms DNA, because Gerald didn't create Shadow at all! Instead, Shadow arrived on Earth inside a meteor, and Gerald was merely the prominent GUN scientist who studied him after he was captured. (That meteor does have very strong Black Arms vibes, though, so I wouldn't rule out the possibility of them exploring that stuff in the future.) This simplifies things a lot and allows Shadow to be a direct foil for Sonic, kind of a version of our hero who was treated as a lab rat and lost the only human he considered family instead of finding happiness like Sonic has. Then later Shadow hurts Tom and Sonic wants revenge, and it mirrors Shadow's feelings about Maria, and after they fight they can empathize with each other over this, Shadow sees the error of his ways and helps save the world, yada yada yada. You get it. People predicted 95% of this movie's plot from the trailers, but it's effective.

Likewise, all of the stuff about creating Shadow as the ultimate life form who's immune to all disease to cure Maria's illness is completely cut out. Shadow's still called the ultimate life form, but he's treated as more of an energy source than a genetic research project here, playing off of the stuff about Eggman wanting to harness Sonic's natural Chaos Energy in the movies. The original intent behind the ultimate life form project was always hard to explain in the games and doesn't even come up that much, so I don't blame them for cutting it.

Because Gerald isn't doing genetic experiments and creating artificial life, the Biolizard also doesn't exist. It does, however, appear in an old monster movie Shadow and Maria watch in a montage, with Shadow later commenting that he worries he's a monster like the one he saw in the movie. That's a clever way to include it, I think.

The ARK sort of exists. There was no space colony back in the '70s, all of the events of Shadow's flashbacks just took place at a secret GUN base on Earth. Fair enough for a version of the story ostensibly set in the real world. The big space laser in the third act of the film is obviously supposed to evoke the ARK, but it's referred to as simply the Eclipse Cannon. It's still not a full-blown space colony, just a weapon of mass destruction Gerald designed for GUN in exchange for his release (while also secretly planning to use it to blow up the planet in an act of revenge). I am, however, pleased to report that the Eclipse Cannon still has a giant Eggman face on it.

And as for Maria: I like her in this! She's obviously not going to get a ton of screentime, and she's always going to be a very straightforward character, but she's more playful and lively here. She teases Shadow for being grumpy and plays with him a lot. She feels less like this perfect embodiment of everything good and pure in the world and more like an actual kid. She's still not a complex character, but it works.

And the most important question: do they show a child getting shot and killed by the military? The answer is almost. In the flashback, GUN soldiers chase Maria, Shadow, and Gerald and ready their guns, but the young Commander Walters (who's in his 20s rather than being a kid) grabs them and tries to stop them from firing on a child. In the chaos, a soldier fires, missing Maria but hitting a generator that then blows up and kills Maria. So, y'know, close enough I suppose.

So, yes, many of the details change here, but they captured the gist of Shadow's story from SA2. The emotional core is there. I will say, though, I almost feel like Shadow isn't in this movie as much as I thought he'd be? I think he's used effectively in all of his scenes, and they make room for his backstory, and BOY does he get to kick ass in his fights, but for much of the middle part of the movie he's overshadowed by Ivo and Gerald. Though this might be a compromise to leave more screentime for...

Tails and Knuckles

I'm relieved to report that Tails and Knuckles both get a good amount of cool stuff to do in this! They don't feel like an afterthought.

I was worried that Tails in particular would completely fall by the wayside, since even his debut movie didn't entirely know what to do with him. But he's good here. He pretty much just feels like the Tails from the games at this point, especially since they dropped that fawning admiration he had for Sonic with that running gag of him going "Only Sonic the Hedgehog could do that!" He often chimes in as the one who wants Team Sonic to stick together when Sonic and Knuckles bicker. He particularly gets to shine in the Mission Impossible-inspired heist sequence at the GUN headquarters in London that serves as the climax of the second act, which feels like it was tailor made to let him shine as the tech guy of the team. He also gets several opportunities to swoop in and catch someone for a save in an action scene. He's good in this!

Knuckles is... fine. He's definitely fallen into the role of the comic relief dumb bruiser since joining the good guys, but he's at least a little better than he was in his own streaming show. The jokes lean more into him just being really brash about his strength and skill, rather than him being this archaic warrior who doesn't understand anything about the modern world. He also gets a few more serious bits in the back third of the movie where he gets to shine a little more, so overall it evens out to him being fine. They could've done way worse.

As for the relevance of the Knuckles show: Knuckles is now said to be the guardian of the Master Emerald, like in the games, though with no Angel Island this amounts to him hiding it somewhere for safekeeping. It's eventually revealed that he just gave it to Wade, who gets exactly one scene (sorry, Wade-heads) for a joke about him using the Master Emerald as a hockey puck. So, the miniseries explained why Knuckles has a connection with Wade. That's it! Also I think Knuckles might use the Flames of Disaster a bit in fights, but they never called the technique out by name, so I never really thought about it. So, yeah, the six-episode streaming miniseries about Wade bowling has zero meaningful relevance to the Shadow movie. Who could have seen this coming?

Miscellaneous humans

For that matter, the human supporting cast is MASSIVELY downplayed in this one. Tom and Maddie are there for two key sequences (the beginning of the movie and the GUN HQ heist), but otherwise they disappear for long stretches of the movie. They don't go to Japan in act I, nor do they go to space in act III, and there's no subplot for them during those periods, either. There's nothing like the wedding subplot in Sonic 2 where they'd constantly cut back to Hawaii for comic relief with the humans and only reveal why this was relevant to the plot near the end. (There's also no random dance battle in Siberia.) If a human character is here, it's because they have something to contribute to the plot right away. Most people will probably consider this an improvement, and I'd certainly say it makes for a much tighter script, though I have to remind everyone that I thought the wedding being a GUN sting operation was such a funny twist that I'm a defender of the Hawaii subplot.

On the subject of Tom, something funny I've noticed is that they've just completely downplayed the fact that Tom and Wade are cops. Tom being a cop never comes up once. Wade being a cop only gets referenced via the fact that he's practicing hockey on the roof of the police station in his one scene, but he's not in uniform or anything. They clearly got the memo that we don't want Sonic to hang out with cops.

Here's something else funny: Rachel and Randall got character posters, but they're actually not in the movie! Not technically, anyway. During the heist sequence at GUN HQ, Tom and Maddie use some gadgets Tails invented to holographically disguise themselves as those other characters. But the real Rachel and Randall never show up in the flesh. It's a very odd way to shoehorn the actors into the movie. (Jojo is also absent. They did not give her Amy's role of being the girl who reminds Shadow of Maria. Instead they just let Sonic have the big heart to heart with Shadow that makes him switch sides.)

You know who IS in this movie? Krysten Ritter. Not as the voice of Rouge, as the fandom once hoped, but as a director for GUN. She gets like three scenes and she feels completely checked out the whole time. Can't say I blame her! She's not really a character, just a plot necessity. Commander Walters dies in Japan but gives Sonic one of two keycards needed to activate the Eclipse Cannon, and then Ritter's character assumes Sonic stole it and labels him a bad guy. So that's why they have to break into GUN HQ in the second act instead of just talking things out with them. Still, I am at least relieved that Sonic doesn't work with GUN for most of the movie.

I gotta be honest: when Walters pulled a credit card-shaped object out of his pocket, I thought he was about to give Sonic another Olive Garden gift card as his final act before dying. Part of me wishes that happened.

The supporting human character in this who really gets to shine is Agent Stone, which I'm sure most fans will agree was the correct choice. There's a LOT of Agent Stone in this. He's good. I don't have much to say about him, but he's fun as usual.

But, of course, the ones who steal the show are Jim Carrey, and his costar Jim Carrey.

The Robotniks

I've gone back and forth on whether or not I can actually see movie Robotnik as Robotnik. I think with this third and final entry in the Jim Carrey Robotnik Trilogy, I've landed on... yeah, that's just Jim Carrey playing a Jim Carrey character. He's absolutely having fun with the role, and I enjoyed watching him, but I think a lot of that comes down to the fact that I'm a millennial who grew up watching Jim Carrey movies. If you didn't like him before, this movie will probably be nails on a chalkboard to you, because now there are two of him.

Ivo's arc here leans very heavily into the fact that he grew up as an orphan and never knew his family, a thing offhandedly mentioned in the first movie that's never been a thing for any other version of the character. Here, he learns that he has a living grandfather who's also a mad scientist, and it feels like a hole in his heart has been filled. It certainly makes sense for a place to take this version of the character, and it fits with the movie's themes of finding and losing family, but the cartoonish, childlike affection Ivo feels towards Gerald and all the scenes of them frolicking and dancing together have basically nothing to do with the characters from the games. He's a fun villain for this movie, but he's overwhelmingly used as comic relief this time rather than as a serious threat. He doesn't particularly feel like Sega's Dr. Ivo Robotnik, the arch nemesis of Sonic the Hedgehog who'd take over the world with an army of robots and a fleet of airships in the span of a day if Sonic wasn't around to stop him. He's a guy who lives in a big crab robot and has some drones. He has more in common with Carrey's depictions of the Grinch or the Riddler or Count Olaf than Dr. Eggman. Though he does, at least, finally get his outfit from the games by the end of the movie. So that's something. And also he's in a fat suit now. They only make jokes at the expense of his weight a little. Hooray...?

Gerald, meanwhile, is... largely the same character as movie Eggman, but older, so they can make jokes about him having saggy flesh and smelling funny and needing dentures. (Also, his voice kind of sounds like Homer Simpson sometimes?) To his credit, Carrey absolutely nails the handful of more serious scenes Gerald gets, whether it's Maria's death or his sinister turn when he reveals that he actually wants to destroy the Earth. But then it's right back to goofs about there being two of the same guy. Even the final battle features a lot of slapstick shenanigans with the two Robotniks fighting each other. I was able to enjoy the absurdity of it all, but if the humor doesn't land for you the dual Jim Carrey schtick is a hell of a lot of the movie. I wouldn't be surprised if there was more Gerald than Shadow in the movie, when you go and tally up their screentime. I was able to enjoy the sheer absurdity of it, but your mileage will vary.

I will, however, say that the split screen stuff they do with the two Carreys is EXTREMELY impressive, from a filmmaking perspective. They were absolutely flexing with their ability to pull the effect off. They don't rely on cheap tricks like cutting a lot, or having shot/reverse shot scenes where you're looking at the back of a body double's head. Instead they have a lot of long takes where the two Robotniks are talking to each other, you can see both of their faces, and they'll even hug and touch each other a lot, and the whole time the conversation maintains a natural pace like it really is two actors playing off of each other. It's really well done. It's an incredibly silly idea, but boy did they commit to it.

Sonic

I've hardly said anything about Sonic himself in all of this. It's his movie, isn't it! Well... I don't know, he's fine.

I feel like movie Sonic is a known quantity at this point, and either you like this take on the character or you don't. There was some speculation early on that this was supposed to be a younger Sonic who would grow into being the character we know from the games and comics, the one who's still got lots of quips but is also kind of aloof and cool, a free spirit who goes where the wind takes him, a figure the other characters look up to. And... no, that didn't happen. Once again he gets more serious as the stakes are raised, and he's totally badass when he goes Super, but the rest of the time he's still a little goober with tons of generic one-liners who learns schmaltzy lessons about the importance of family. He's still constantly going to undercut the tension of most scenes by cracking a pop culture reference that will make the average American parent go "haha I've heard of that." I don't think they're ever gonna change that. I think this just what the writers think Sonic is like.

And, again, for what it is, it's fine. He's a little annoying. You already know how you feel about movie Sonic. This third entry won't change that. But they do, at least, have him say "Talk about low budget flights, no food or movies... I'm outta here!" before jumping out of a helicopter. As my thoughts on the climax will show, I am not immune to fanservice.

The climax

God, the climax is SOOOOO fucking good. It's fantastic. Easily the best action these movies have ever done.

Rather than saving Super Shadow for the team-up with Sonic at the end, they have both of them go Super to fight each other first, and they just go full DBZ with it, fighting across the entire planet. It absolutely rules. I think this is the new coolest fight the two of them have had in anything ever. And then they have to stop the Eclipse Cannon together, and sure, there's no Biolizard. But Gerald DOES release a swarm of GUN Hunter robots, and the ensuing space battle turns into some Gundam shit. It's good! It's so good!!! The movie's flaws kind of melt away for me here when I'm watching Super Shadow take out an army of robots with Chaos Spears on the big screen. What a timeline we're living in.

And yes, they play "Live and Learn." They had to. They knew the assignment. They actually play a slight remix, but it's still got the original vocals, so it's perfectly recognizable. Actually, the tune of the song is used as a leitmotif for Shadow throughout the movie, first introduced via an acoustic guitar version played by Maria, and I really love that. I've been begging these movies to use more music from the games the whole time, and I'm glad they finally did so here. (They also use the traditional level clear jingle early in the film, and Eggman's theme from SA2 is very briefly used as a ringtone.)

... Anyway, uh, meanwhile Eggman, Tails, and Knuckles straight up just kill Gerald to save the world? They unceremoniously knock him into an energy field at the end of their slapstick fight aboard the Eclipse Cannon and he disintegrates like he hit a bugzapper. It's over in an instant. It's not graphic or anything, but it's, like... I didn't expect them to show it, or for it to be such a casual murder! Eggman has one quip about it and then immediately moves on.

Shortly after this, Eggman and Shadow sacrifice themselves to stop the Eclipse Cannon. Shadow's sacrifice doesn't stick, obviously (he's revealed to be alive by the end of the second stinger—pretend to be shocked), but Eggman's probably dead dead. I seriously doubt Jim Carrey's gonna come out of retirement for these movies again. His final moments before the big explosion are also SO dragged out and belabored. He has a dramatic final line like ten times in a row. It really just feels like the series saying goodbye to Carrey. And, again, it feels like a fitting enough end for this Eggman's arc, but it's an odd adaptation of the character from the games.

And so, that's what we're left with. This is far from Sonic Adventure 2: The Movie. It's not that, though there are many, many references made to that game in particular. It's a sequel to the film Sonic the Hedgehog 2 that has a similar tone and style, but Shadow and Gerald are in it, and Shadow gets some really cool fights, and there's a liiiiiittle more focus on stuff from the games than last time, and the script's a little tighter. If that sounds fun to you, you will have fun with this. I know I did. If it doesn't, you're probably better off waiting for them to inevitably do an animated reboot whenever this live action series runs out of steam.

It hasn't quite run out of steam yet, though...

The post-credits scenes, and the future

One of the big questions going into this was: what's next? How do they top a Shadow movie with heavy Sonic Adventure 2 overtones, in terms of hype for the fans? How do you fill Eggman's shoes after Carrey retires, for real this time? There are still more fan favorite rival characters to get through, but how many movies in a row can they introduce a furry foe for Sonic who inevitably turns good and helps him stop a larger threat by the end? And when the hell are we gonna see the girls?

Well, we now have our answer, and it's one I'm cautiously excited for: a whole army of Metal Sonics, and Amy!

Yes, Amy! Finally!! It's an absolute crime that we've gone three whole movies and a streaming miniseries without including the female lead of the series. I've complained about this ad nauseum (and also the fact that they cut Rouge from the story). But at least now they're finally doing something about it.

But now the question is, how will they characterize Amy? Sega's struggled with her for years, and there's a million different directions you can take her. Her one scene here has her smashing a bunch of Metal Sonics and wearing a cloak for the sake of a dramatic reveal, which gives her the vibes of a mysterious, badass action girl. This is, of course, completely different from how Sonic and Amy met in the games. What will her personality be like? She doesn't speak here, so who will they get to play her? Where did she come from? Will she even have a crush on Sonic? All of these have yet to be determined. So, like, I'm hyped to finally see Amy, a character who should've been in the movies from the start, but they could so easily end up playing it safe with an incredibly boring girlboss version of Amy who's no fun at all. We'll have to wait and see.

(My prediction: they're going to try to cast either Zendaya or Ariana as Amy.)

Metal Sonic, likewise, is very exciting, and he looks perfect. He looks just like the design from the games. But the question is: what will they do with this army of Metals? Will they be lead by one main Metal Sonic, perhaps Neo Metal Sonic, who gets to be a proper bad guy? Will they take some cues from Sonic CD, Heroes, and the OVA, or do something completely original? Where did they come from? Were they activated as a failsafe after Eggman died? Did they and Amy come from some sort of bad future, riffing on Sonic CD's time travel? Will they explore the fact that Metal wants to be the one and only Sonic? Or will they just be an army of disposable robot grunts for Sonic and friends to mow down like it's a Dynasty Warriors game, while some other villain takes center stage?

It could go so many different ways, and some prospects are more exciting than others. I mean, the Knuckles show had endless possibilities for what it could do with him, and none of the options on my bingo card were "Pachacamac's ghost tells him to help Wade win a bowling tournament." And while I'm a sicko who thinks it's funny that the Knuckles show is what it is, forgive me for keeping my hype about Amy and Metal Sonic in check here until we learn more.

Regardless of what they do, it'll still be hard to top the hype of Shadow, and it'll be hard to fill Jim Carrey's shoes for general audiences. So despite this clear statement of intent, I have no idea what the future of this film franchise holds. But regardless of what they do, I can say one thing for certain: the kids in my theater were hyped as hell for it. They popped off over Metal Sonic, and they were screaming their heads off with excitement over Amy. I heard a teenage girl on the opposite end of my row of seats say "finally!" over Amy's reveal, verbalizing my exact thoughts. She also said that this movie was "peak," though it diverged from the games, and she hoped they'd do a movie with Silver and Blaze someday.

The kids are gonna be okay.

#tkp post #other media #sonic 3 spoilers

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retellingthehobbit · 20 days ago

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you've got me missing my old bagginshield days badly lmaooo. Bilbo's always been very queer to me and I didn't even know about that passage from unfinished tales- but I've always been very drawn to his gentle hobbit gender and eternal bachelor status. might go delve into some old AO3 classics now...

Thank you, thank you, one of my key goals here is to inspire Bagginshield Nostalgia. Bilbo really invented being “the eccentric gay uncle” just as Frodo invented being “the tragic doomed gay waif.” (Also speaking of the classics, someone else is doing a webcomic adaptation of Sansukh over at @sansukhcomic .)

This could probably be its own post, but part of the reason I’m drawn to making fanwork for The Hobbit (over lord of the rings) is because there’s always an intentional feeling that something is missing from the hobbit, and there’s a part of the story we’re not being told. Not just in the usual sense of “people go to fanfic for the things that they can’t get in canon,” but also in the incomplete way that The Hobbit (the original book) is integrated into Lord of the Rings.

When I was a kid, the part of the Hobbit I read the most often (outside of the riddles game) was the scene where Bilbo spares Gollum’s life. This scene was not actually in the original edition of The Hobbit—in the original version published in the 30s, Gollum was a nice guy who just gifted Bilbo the ring. Tolkien later retconned this to something that’d fit more with LOTR—- with the in-universe justification that “Bilbo is an unreliable narrator who lied about how he got the Ring.” The scene that had grabbed me so much was one that Tolkien wrote when he revisited The Hobbit, and was now retelling the story through the lens of the stories that came after.

And while we are told that Bilbo is truthful about everything else, there’s also a moment in FOTR where Frodo notes that “Bilbo always jokes about serious things,” which casts the upbeat tone of The Hobbit into a different light.

Rather than completely rewrite the hobbit to fit into LOTR’s tone— something Tolkien partially did before realizing it was not a good idea— he allowed it to continue feeling “off.” He sowed doubt about the story, the feeling that we might not have seen the “true” version of it.

This is something I’ve also really loved about the opening of the film version of the Fellowship of the Ring— the first forty minutes of the extended cut focus so much on Bilbo, but are rewriting him through the lens of LOTR rather than his character in The Hobbit. They really lean into the idea that he shared an idealized sanitized child-friendly story of his adventures with Frodo, while repeatedly concealing a darker truth— and it works really well!

And The Hobbit/Bagginshield fandom was the first place where I saw people really digging into that idea? And while I have mixed feelings about the hobbit films, they also started to touch this idea…. And obviously I really enjoy their more serious portrayal of Thorin, and the dynamic/character foil relationship he has with Bilbo. (If only they had more screentime XP.) but the fandom really keyed into that dynamic, and explored all the possibilities/depth of it in a way the films never fully did.

Not only they are a Quality Ship(tm), they could also have this really deep connection to the source material as well? It’s not really the hobbit or lord of the rings, but this special thing that exists in conversation with it. And I think there’s especially something interesting/relevant about a tragic queer love story getting “censored” into a lighthearted children’s adventure. Obviously I don’t necessarily think my own fanfic webcomic can convey that perfectly, but it is an idea I really find interesting.

Wow that was a text wall. TL:DR:

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miraculouslbcnreactions · 6 months ago

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In your story how exactly would you redeem Chloe?

(Post that spawned this ask)

It's hard to give a proper answer to that in a relatively short Tumblr post, but I'll try to give a semi-decent, high-level pitch for what I think a Chloe redemption would need to look like. Before we begin, a quick reminder as to why I would redeem Chloe: within the context of canon, the only reason to redeem Chloe is if her redemption would contribute value to the overall narrative. I think it would.

Adrien desperately needs a lesson in setting boundaries and prioritizing himself so that he's mentally ready for the reveal of everything to do with his parents. Chloe is, by far, the best person to do that with, but it's depressing if the story ends with every "bad" person damned. Because of that, I want her to serve as a contrast to Gabriel. Chloe will show you that people can change while also teaching you what to look for when deciding if it's worth giving someone a second chance.

However, this is not just Adrien's story. It's Marinette's, too, so let's quickly talk about the road blocks that introduces. For this discussion, we are going to be ignoring everything that happens post season three because it's an incoherent, retcon-laden nightmare. Chloe's redemption only works if Chloe is a petty reactionary brat who Marinette just generally dislikes. Things fall apart if Chloe is some grand tormentor who deeply traumatized Marinette.

Chloe and Marinette

Chloe is a bully and her primary victim is Marinette. This makes it nearly impossible to redeem Chloe on the civilian side. It's simply too complicated to weave that kind of plot into the fabric of the overall narrative because Marinette should not be knowingly involved in Chloe's redemption. It's too big an ask. I do not see Marinette willingly giving Chloe a chance until Chloe is well on her way to being her best self. That means a civilian redemption would spend a great deal of time heavily removed from everything else going on in the story and we don't want that. We want Chloe tied into the greater plot. That means that Chloe's redemption must come on the hero side.

Before we move on, I do want to quickly note that a civilian-side redemption does work, just not in the context of canon. I could absolutely buy a situation where these two grow up a bit, Chloe improves on her own, and then the two women agree to tolerate each other because they both love Adrien. Eventually, that tolerance could lead to a friendship through the power of time spent together not fighting. It's a nice setup but, once again, not a good fit for canon so let's talk about what would work in a canon-like setting!

Queen Bee

Miraculous is a story about superheroes and identity shenanigans. If Chloe is going to be redeemed in a way that fits the narrative, it needs to be on the hero side. For this to really work, Ladybug needs to be totally oblivious to the fact that she's dealing with her bully and vice versa re Chloe knowing about Marinette. That means that Chloe's recruitment needs to be done by someone other than Ladybug and that identities need to stay secret for some time, but that's fine. Perfect even! I already said that this redemption is happening because Adrien needs to learn about when to give someone a second chance, so Adrien needs to be the one to really kick it off.

In my ideal version of canon, Adrien and Chloe's friendship needs to be established as something real, deep, and meaningful. That friendship then needs to end and it will end because Chloe is in the wrong about something major. This break needs to happen for both of their sakes. Adrien needs to learn to prioritize himself and that you can't make everyone happy. Chloe needs to learn that her actions have consequences that matter to her. Until that happens, neither of them can really start on their journey.

Obviously neither of them will be happy about the breakup. Cutting off Chloe will break Adrien's heart. He will want her back, but also come to understand that he can't make her be a good person. He will learn that she has to be the one who wants to change. Until that happens, there's nothing he can do and he needs to keep her at arms length. We can see him leave the door open for her, but he needs to set rules for what she needs to do if she wants to step through that door. Of course, Chloe has far too much pride and fear to make those changes, so she won't even try to meet him half way. Adrien will not understand why she's acting the way she is. He will just see it as her not caring about him.

This is where the moment happens. That catalyst that really starts it all. There are many forms the moment can take, but the important element is that Adrien needs to learn that Chloe does truly care about him. He also needs to see that she has a heroic instinct. The best way to do this is probably an akuma attack where Chloe thinks that Adrien is in danger because his "hiding spot" is being attacked. This leads to her trying to save Adrien. Chat Noir will see this happen.

In the aftermath of this moment, Adrien will be deeply troubled. He now knows that Chloe does care about him. He will have also seen a spark of goodness inside Chloe and he will want to help that spark grow because he believes that Chloe can be a good person. His history with her will give that read extra support as he knows Chloe in a way that the rest of the cast doesn't. The problem will be that he doesn't know how to help Chloe as a civilian because he has tried and failed.

All of this will lead Adrien to seek guidance from a mentor figure. There are once again a few fits for who this could be, but the choice doesn't matter all that much. The important part is that this guidance needs to be a deep, nuanced discussion about second chances. I'd also throw in some discussion about how no Chosen is a perfect hero on day one. There's always a learning curve and a chance that a person can be a bad fit.

After this talk and some self-reflection, Adrien will recruit Chloe to the role of Queen Bee because it's silly and risky that Marinette is the only one who gets to do the recruiting. If identities are dangerous, then spread the knowledge so that no active combatant has all the puzzle pieces. I also never liked canon's temp hero approach where Marinette had to recruit people every fight. That was just silly and needlessly risky as Miracle Queen and Optigami proved. Temp heroes should have becomes full time back in season two or three and I will die on that hill.

This doesn't mean that Chloe gets her miraculous full time on day one. It just means that she gets it full time pretty quickly. This makes sense from a tactics perspective and adds a final, incredibly important ingredient to the mix: Pollen.

Pollen

If you follow this blog, then you've probably picked up on the fact that I love the idea of the Kwamis getting to be mentors. I think it's a massive missed opportunity. This is especially true when it comes to Adrien and Chloe. They are by far the ones who need the most guidance. They both have a lot of issues to deal with and they're the ones who are the most isolated. That makes Plagg and Pollen vital to getting their stories right.

Pollen isn't really a character in canon. I think she says maybe two lines outside of the scenes where the Kwamis act like a hive mind. This means that we are going to be making up a personality for her. That personality is going to revolve around what Chloe needs if she has any hope of getting better because Queen Bee is not the end of Chloe's redemption. It is the start of her redemption.

For Chloe to improve, she needs help and that help needs to come from someone who makes her walls come down. Someone who is fully on her side no matter what. Adrien isn't a great fit for any of that because his arc is about boundaries. He needs to maintain his boundaries as Chat Noir. Those boundaries will just look a little different. He'll be supportive and show Chloe that someone believes in her, but he'll also be laying down hard rules that Chloe has to follow. The end result should be that Chloe feels like Queen Bee is something that she could lose if she plays her cards wrong. Adrien cutting her off on the civilian side will play a big role in that fear feeling real. She knows that she really could lose her place on the team if she misbehaves, which will keep a bit of a wedge between her and her teammates at first. Pollen will be the character who she feels safe with.

This does not mean that Pollen will be a mindless cheerleader who supports everything Chloe does. Instead, Pollen's mentorship style will be very "love the sinner, hate the sin." She will become a mix of Chloe's big sister, close confidant, and trusted advisor. She will be this loving, accepting force who truly believes in Chloe while still being fully aware of Chloe's faults. She will praise Chloe's slightest good deed while treating any poor behavior as an issue to be worked through, not a personal failing. They will quickly develop an incredibly close bond and that bond will be vital to Chloe's improvement as Pollen will be doing most of the heavy lifting on that front. Chloe will want to be good to keep her miraculous, but Pollen will be how she manages to do that because massive personal change is a battle few can face alone. Pollen will be the reason that Chloe reaches the point where she can apologize to Adrien and have him on her side again. Her developing friendships with the members of her new hero team will also help to motivate her as time goes on. That bond will allow them to accept civilian Chloe post reveal (and Adrien will probably feel a little guilty about unknowingly recruiting their bully, but no one will care much at that point.)

Final Thoughts

So there you have it, my very high level thoughts on how I'd go about setting up Chloe's redemption. I really do think she was a massive missed opportunity to tell a lesson about setting boundaries. Making her and Adrien friends and then doing nothing with that idea was one of the show's greatest failures for both characters. Out of all the redemption opportunities on the show, Chloe was the one that could have sent the strongest message to people like her and to people who want to help those like her. Instead, her story was a pointless waste of our time.

Don't let any of this fool you into thinking that redeemed Chloe will be a sweet and wonderful person who does no wrong. She'll still be Chloe. My vision of her redeemed self can be summed up as "bitch powers for the forces of good" because bitches do indeed get shit done. She'll be kinder and more self-aware, but she'll always have a bit of a petty brat instinct that she has to fight against and that's okay. Good doesn't mean perfect. It would be boring if it did.

#anon ask #chloe deserves better

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argoscity · 2 years ago

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ULTIMATE SUPERGIRL READING GUIDE

since i've been asked a few times in the past for various reading guides for kara, i thought i'd compile them all into one post for the sake of convenience!

this guide has reading orders for supergirl comics in PRE-CRISIS (1959-1985), POST-CRISIS (2004-2011), NEW 52 (2011-2016), REBIRTH (2016-2021), and INFINITE FRONTIER (2021-present).

if you have any questions at all don't be afraid to shoot me an ask!

for each section bolded comics are required, italicized comics are recommended, and everything else is optional!

ORIGIN AND MIDVALE ERA (NOTE: you'll have to flip to the back of each issue to get to kara's section!) action comics (1938) #252, 258, 267, 276, 278-282, 285, 295, 309-310, 313, 317

STANHOPE COLLEGE action comics (1938) #318-319, 322-323, 332-333, 337, 339, 340, 350, 358, 359, 366-368, 369-370, 371-372, 374-376 world’s finest (1941) #169 adventure comics (1938) #381-382, 383, 384, 386-389, 391, 393-394, 395-397, 399, 400, 402, 404-405

K-SFTV REPORTER — SAN FRANCISCO adventure comics (1938) #406-407 action comics (1938) #402 (second story titled "superman vs. supergirl: feud of the titans") adventure comics (1938) #409-415, 417, 419, 420, 421-424

VANDYRE UNIVERSITY supergirl (1974) #1-10

STUDENT ADVISOR — FLORIDA (NOTE: every member of the superfamily has a story in the superman family (1974), so you'll have to flip through to find kara's section!) the superman family (1974) #165, 168, 171, 174, 177, 180, 182 justice league of america (1960) #132-134 the superman family #183, 184-186, 187-189, 191-193, 194, 196-198, 199, 200, 201-202, 203, 204-205, 206-207

ACTRESS — NEW YORK the superman family (1974) 208-210, 211-214, 215-216, 217, 218 superman (1939) #373 (second story titled “an eye (and ear) on the world!”) detective comics (1937) #508-510 the superman family #219-222

THE GREAT DARKNESS SAGA (i recommend this storyline in it's entirety, but kara only appears in the last issue!) legion of superheroes (1980) #290-294

LAKE SHORE UNIVERSITY supergirl (1982) #1-12 (cw: nazi imagery in the brief interlude in #12) supergirl (1982) #13-15 (cw: antisemitism, nazi imagery, depictions of the holocaust.) supergirl (1982) #16-23

LAST APPEARANCES AND DEATH legion of super-heroes (1980) #300-303 dc comics presents (1978) #28 tales of the legion of super-heroes (1984) #314-315 crisis on infinite earths (1985) #4-7

BONUS POST-COIE APPEARANCES christmas with the super-heroes (1988) #2 (last story titled “should auld acquaintance be forgot”) supergirl (1996) #49, 75-80 solo (2004) #1 (third story titled “young love”) convergence: adventures of superman (2015) #1-2

ORIGIN superman/batman (2003) #8-13 (or you can watch superman/batman: apocalypse (2010) instead which I recommend! the art is a lot more tasteful and it's a very faithful adaptation of the comic so you won’t be missing out on anything.)

KARA WITH THE LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES supergirl and the legion of super-heroes (2006) #16-36

LOEB AND KELLY HELL ERA supergirl (2005) #1-5, 9-10, 19 (you don’t have to read any of this since it gets retconned anyway, but if you’re interested in kara’s early characterization, the beginnings of her friendship with cassie sandsmark, or her difficulty fitting in on earth then you’re welcome to read what i’ve provided.)

KELLEY PUCKETT ERA Amazons Attack! teen titans (2003) #47-48 amazons attack! (2007) #3 supergirl (2005) #20 amazons attack! (2007) #4 teen titans (2003) #49

supergirl (2005) #21-22 teen titans (2003) #50, 51-55 supergirl (2005) #25-33

Superman: Brainiac action comics (1938) #866-870

GATES AND IGLE HEAVEN ERA supergirl (2005) #34

New Krypton (new krypton is one of my favorite events and i recommend it in its entirety, but for the sake of brevity I’ll only be listing the issues relevant to kara.) superman: new krypton special #1 superman (1939) #681 adventure comics special featuring guardian #1 action comics (1938) #871 supergirl (2005) #35 superman (1939) #682 action comics (1938) #872 supergirl (2005) #36 superman (1939) #683 action comics (1938) #873

teen titans (2003) #66 supergirl (2005) #37-42

Friends and Fugitives superman: secret Files 2009 #1 supergirl (2005) #43 action comics (1938) #881 supergirl (2005) #45 action comics (1938) #882 supergirl (2005) #46-47

supergirl (2005) annual 1, #48-50

Last Stand of New Krypton adventure comics (2009) #8 superman: last stand of new krypton #1 supergirl (2005) #51 superman (1938) #698 adventure comics (2009) #9 superman: last stand of new krypton #2 adventure comics (2009) #10 supergirl (2005) #52 superman (1938) #699 superman: last stand of new krypton #3 superman: war of the supermen (2010) #0, 1-4

supergirl (2005) #53-57, annual 2, 58-59

END OF SUPERGIRL VOL 5 supergirl (2005) #60-64 supergirl (2005) #65-67

ORIGIN and SUPERGIRL VS THE WORLDKILLERS supergirl (2011) #1-7

SUPERGIRL and SILVER BANSHEE supergirl (2011) #8-11

SUPERGIRL and SUPERBOY superboy (2011) #6

SANCTUARY supergirl (2011) #12, 0, 13

H’EL ON EARTH superman (2011) #13 supergirl (2011) #14 superman (2011) #14 superboy (2011) #15 supergirl (2011) #15 superboy (2011) #16 superboy (2011) Annual #1 supergirl (2011) #16 superman (2011) #16 superboy (2011) #17 supergirl (2011) #17 superman (2011) #17

SUPERGIRL and POWERGIRL supergirl (2011) #18-20

CYBORG SUPERMAN supergirl (2011) #21-23 action comics (2011) #23.1 supergirl (2011) #24

KRYPTON RETURNS action comics (2011) annual #2 superboy (2011) #25 supergirl (2011) #25 superman (2011) #25

SUPERGIRL VS LOBO supergirl (2011) #26-27

RED DAUGHTER OF KRYPTON supergirl (2011) #28-29 red lanterns (2011) #28-29 supergirl (2011) #30 red lanterns (2011) #30 supergirl (2011) #31 red lanterns (2011) #31-32 supergirl (2011) #32-33

SUPERMAN: DOOMED (this is a whole storyline but I'll only be listing the issues that kara appears in!) superman/wonder woman (2013) #9 action comics (2011) #33 supergirl (2011) #34 superman: doomed (2014) #2 action comics (2011) #35 supergirl (2011) #35

FUTURES END supergirl: futures end (2014) #1

JUSTICE LEAGUE UNITED justice league united (2014) #1-5 justice league united (2014) annual #1 justice league united (2014) #6-10

CRUCIBLE supergirl (2011) #36-40

FINAL DAYS OF SUPERMAN (kara only appears in the issues i've italicized and bolded, but i put all the relevant issues if you wanted to read the full storyline!) superman (2011) #51 batman/superman (2013) #31 action comics (2011) #51 superman/wonder woman (2013) #28 batman/superman (2013) #32 action comics (2011) #52 superman/wonder woman (2013) #29 superman (2011) #52

KARA IN NATIONAL CITY supergirl: rebirth #1

supergirl (2016) #1-8 batgirl (2016) annual 1 supergirl #9-12

supergirl (2016) annual 1supergirl #13-20

world's finest: batwoman and supergirl #1-2

ROGOL ZAAR and THE SINS OF THE CIRCLE the man of steel #1-2, 3-6 supergirl #21-33, #34-36

LEVIATHAN and BATMAN WHO LAUGHS superman: leviathan rising special #1 supergirl #34-36 supergirl (2016) annual 2 supergirl #37-42

HOUSE OF KENT action comics (2016) #1022-1023 action comics (2016) #1024-1028

FUTURE STATE superman of metropolis (2021) #1-2 kara zor el, superwoman (2021) #1-2

action comics 2021 annual

WOMAN OF TOMORROW supergirl: woman of tomorrow (2021) #1-8

WORLD'S FINEST batman/superman: world's finest (2022) #2-6, 8, 12

A WORLD WITHOUT CLARK KENT and RED MOON (kara is featured in the back-up story! if you want the full context of this plot i recommend reading the full warworld arc in action comics [action comics #1030-1046, superman: warworld apocalypse #1]!) action comics (2016) #1044-1046, 1047-1049

DAWN OF DC action comics (2016) #1051-1053, 1055-1056 superman (2023) #1-3 power girl special #1 steelworks (2023) #1-3

KNIGHT TERRORS knight terrors: superman (2023) #1-2

DAWN OF DC (continued) action comics: doomsday special (2023) superman (2023) #7 hawkgirl (2023) #4 supergirl special (2023)

NEW WORLDS [this arc starts on action comics #1057—kara doesn't appear in that issue but I recommend reading it for context!] action comics (2016) #1058-1060 action comics 2023 annual

JOURNEY TO FERIMBIA powergirl (2023) #5, 6-7

HOUSE OF BRAINIAC action comics (2016) #1064 superman (2023) #13 action comics (2016) #1065 superman (2023) #14 action comics (2016) #1066 superman (2023) #15

UNIVERSE END action comics (2016) #1070-1081

MISCELLANEOUS RECENT APPEARANCES: justice league unlimited (2024) #1, 4-6 superwoman special #1 superman (2023) #21-22

SUMMER OF SUPERMAN superman unlimited (2025) #1-2

MISADVENTURES IN MIDVALE supergirl (2025) #1-2

UPCOMING: supergirl (2025) [monthly ongoing] new history of the dc universe (2025) #2 [out july 23rd] dc's kal-el-fornia love (2025) [out july 30th]

#kara zor el #supergirl #reading guide #reading order #kara danvers #linda lee danvers #linda lang

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alpaca-clouds · 24 days ago

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Why I just hate the 02 Epilogue

I guess I will just post Digimon fanramblings on Tuesdays now, because why not. (Fuck, my brain really clung back onto the old hyperfixation, didn't it?) And I think today I will just rant about why I hate that darn epilogue so much. Because I still hate it and for the most part I am glad that the post-canon movies are slowly kinda retconning it - dispite Kakudou arguing that this was not true. But c'mon, Hiroyuki. We retconned the Digimon staying around in Kizuna and also realized that "everybody getting a Digimon partner" would be a horrible idea in The Beginning.

But let me rant.

The Jobs

I could have lived with some of the jobs, but I generally hate them all. For two reasons. For once I HATE how pretty much EVERYONE (but some of the women) have a high earning job. Like solid top 3%. And a lot of them were never set up. Going through them it basically looks like this:

Taichi: I could kinda live with him being an ambassador. If it was not in the context of everything else, I could live with it. He was the main hero so to speak, so him being kinda important... yeah, whatever. Especially as he has the charisma to be a politician. I just hate that he is too important.

Yamato: Look, I know that in the novels based on the original concept that they at some point had for Adventure, this was set up. But that was not the version we got. And I am sorry, in the version we got he never cared about space. Also... Well, astronauts need to pass extensive psychological testing, and I am sorry. Someone who is at the very least depressive as a kid and teen, if not has some clear signs of borderline will never get into space. That's just how it is.

Sora: Why? Why the fuck is she a fashion designer? When did she ever care about fashion? Also, again: Why did she has to be a super prominent designer, rather than just... a normal one?

Koshiro: Sure, he is the one character where I have no questions. This fits.

Mimi: I guess her job is based on the running joke that her family has a lot of weird recipes that still are somehow kinda good? But yeah, again: Why did she have to become famous with it? Funnily enough: The German version made her a nutritionist. Which I actually like a lot better. It is a lot more normal.

Jou: His job I hate. Like, his entire character arc in Adventure is about learning to say "no" to his father who absolutely wants him to become a doctor. And then the solution is: "Yeah, he is a doctor, but for Digimon?" Are you serious? Just let him be something else and have his father deal with it.

Hikari: Honestly, given she has probably the most "normal" job of them all, I am somewhat fine with it. It is still not really set up before episode 49, but yeah, whatever. Though there is another reason I hate this. But about that after the list.

Takeru: Look, I do not care that this at some point was intended - or that at least Kakudou claims so (I do not really trust Kakudou, I am honest, because I know certain things where he 100% lied, as several other people have said conflicting things). But yeah, this is is just so very random.

Daisuke: I hate it so much. Like, I would be perfectly fine with him being a chef. While this is based on a one-off joke in one of the later episodes, I am fine with that. You do not need a certain psychological profile to be a Ramen chef in Japan (like Yamato would need as an astronaut) and kids will usually not know what they gonna do at the age. But him becoming the CEO of a fucking chain restaurant? I fucking hate that. Let the boy just make his noodles. Geez.

Miyako: Hate it. It is misogyny. Nuff said. I agree with her voice actor here. I could get behind her being on maternity leave, but if she is not working with Koshiro something is wrong.

Iori: Of the 02 kids he is probably the least offensive. I can somewhat see it? Again, I kinda hate how this is another top earning job, but still. It is not offensively wrong.

Ken: I am anarchist. I am not fine with my little boy being a cop. It is also not set up at all and does not really fit with his character. Especially knowing Japanese cops.

And yeah, there is the general issue to: All four women have C-class jobs. Meaning: Care, Cooking, Clothes. Girly jobs. Pink jobs. Oh boy, what ideas could children get in 2000 if you wrote it that a girl became a scientist or something. Will someone please think of the children?

As I said, I am kinda fine with Hikari. She is kinda depicted as this caring, motherly figure in 02. But the other three? Nope. Sorry. Cannot really see it.

The Kids

I hate two things about the kids: For one I hate that everyone has at least one kid, and for two that most of the kids (who are not kids of two canon-characters, in which case they mostly have the appearance of one of them, but with the haircolor of the other) look like basically a clone of their parents. Like, not all kids look like their parents. The kids in the show (the main characters I mean) do not look like clones of their parents, so why would their kids look like their clones.

I get that the crew probably did not want to put in the effort to create unique designs, but I have a novel idea: Then don't do an "everyone has kids" epilogue.

Also, I kinda find it disturbing that the son of Daisuke, the daughter of Miyako and Ken, and the kid of Hikari seem to be the oldest. They look like about 9 to 11. Meaning that based on this being 25 years post-canon, those characters all became parents in their early 20s. Yes, I guess that this was seen as very normal in early 2000s Japan, due to Japanese society being very conservative and having been a lot more conservative back in the day. But holy fuck. Like, folks, think ahead. This is supposed to take place in the future. It was absolutely foreseeable that this would not be how it would be in the 2020s. (Fun fact: That epilogue takes place in summer 2027 - so like two years from now. I curse you with: "FEEL OLD!")

I also hate the fact that they all just have kids. Sure, you can have a child and be single, but it implies everyone is married and of course in a straight relationship. Look, I do not expect them to go there and say: "Yo, some of them are gay," but leave some of it up to interpretation? I know that at the time Japanese tolerance for queerness basically boiled down to: "Sure, be gay, whatever, but you still need a straight partner and kids. You can be gay as like as side hussle." But man.

And again: Not everyone has kids.

I generally am a hater when it comes to "everyone has kids" epilogues. Some people do not want kids. Other people cannot have kids. Allow for that? Please?

Also I kinda hate how every kid has the Digimon partner of their parent. I know, back in the day there were not a whole lot of Baby II Digimon around that were not the Baby-II-forms of the Adventure/02 main Digimon (like, there were Pagumon, Chocomon, Gummimon, and Tsumemon, I think, but that is it outside of the main Digimon, if I am not mistaken). But man. Mix it up a bit? Would have made the kids seem less like copies of their parents.

The State of the World

I honestly gotta say, I still do not get what has made them decide for this state of the world. Sure, I kinda get that it felt to someone as a natural progression to go from "international chosen children" to "everyone has a Digimon", but... I mean... *gestures widely at the state of the world in 2000*

Look, I get that this came out in 2000 and not in 2001, yeah? So it was in a world before the "War on Terror". But also, this came out in a period when Japan was politically super unstable based on the economic regression in the 1990s. I mean, heck, the entire Hikarigaoka thing was inspired BY AN ACTUAL TERROR ATTACK THAT HAPPENED IN HIKARIGAOKA IN 1995! (Not-so fun fact.)

Not even with going into the idea of giving Americans monsters that can literally just villi-nilli NUKE people... Like, nothing against you, normal American nerds probably reading this, but you gotta agree that MAGAs with Digimon partners would be horrible, right? Like, I mean, I am sorry. But if you went with "every human has a Digimon partner", at some point humanity would probably very successfully erase themselves from this planet. Because again: THOSE THINGS SHOOT NUKES! It is part of the natural "biology" of some Digimon to be able to SHOOT NUKES.

I mean, I am not gonna lie: I would totally be there for a political thriller or something based on the concept of a world where a lot of people have Digimon partners. (Heck, with Digimon Battle Generation I wrote something like that myself.) But do not put it in some 3 minute epilogue and then let it dangle off there like that! Like, I mean... c'mon!

I get that it is a somewhat nice thought. But... yeah, no. It does not work.

I kinda feel the Digimon fandom needs a tag on Ao3 like the HP fandom has: EWE. Epilogue? What Epilogue?

#digimon #rambling #digimon adventure #digimon adventure 02 #digimon adventure 02 epilogue #epilogues #taichi yagami #yamato ishida #sora takenouchi #koshiro izumi #mimi tachikawa #jou kido #hikari yagami #takeru takaishi #daisuke motomiya #ken ichijouji #miyako inoue #iori hida

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that-ari-blogger · 5 months ago

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They Who Carry The Torch (The Missing Months)

When writing this post, it struck me how close together the second and third seasons of The Owl House were. As in, I have described them as the missing years and it is not uncommon for them to be implied as being at least a year or two apart. But King’s Tide aired on May 28, 2022, and Thanks To Them aired on October 15 of that same year. That’s less than five months.

For context, the gap between seasons one and two was just under ten months. It really wasn’t that much time at all.

But a lot can happen in five months, especially in the realms of fanfiction. The Owl House’s ending was purposely unsatisfying. We didn’t know we would get a conclusion.

This is a post about one comic artist who stepped up to the plate to try and bridge that gap. The one, the only, @moringmark.

Let me explain.

I think the first question I need to ask is why I am doing this?

Moringmark’s comics are not expressly cannon to The Owl House. They are, by definition, fanart, and I haven’t covered fanart as a full post in any of my other series. So why make the exception?

My answer here is kind of twofold and kind of not.

Firstly, canon is not really a thing. Like all definitions, the word exists to allow for common ground between people, but this one is especially dubious. What is cannon?

You may say that the text itself is the canon, and that is a perfectly fine distinction. But it doesn’t take into account retcons and plotholes and alternate futures. Luckily, The Owl House doesn’t have many of these, but areas where canon is more important, such as comic books, tend to feature them more heavily.

This isn’t a coincidence. There is a direct line between having multiple possibilities and the need to clarify that one is canon.

My hot take is this: Canon is just what the general audience accepts as having happened. The main material is the thing that everyone agrees on, and everything else is fuzzy with increasing or decreasing clarity depending on the media and the audience.

For one example, Harold Pots and the Child that was Maybe a bit Bad is a stage play that was written by the author of its parent series. It is technically canon. But due to a number of factors including the author making a fool of herself online and alienating a significant chunk of her audience and the story not satisfying a general audience, it is not treated as fitting the canon.

Flipping the script, The Owl House fandom exists in a really large capacity online, most notably in this case, on Tumblr. A significant chunk of the fanbase has at least come into contact with Moringmark’s art, and it is not uncommon for the comics to be believed canon unless proven otherwise, which is not an honour ascribed to many fanartists.

In addition, we didn’t know we were getting a season three, so for several months, these comics were the The Owl House.

My other reason is this: I do not run a review blog. I do not have to weigh the worth of a fan artist alongside its inspiration because that is a) not fair considering the size of the teams working on the two and b) not my job.

Instead, I run an analysis blog. I discuss what a text is about and comment on how I got to that conclusion. This is a series about The Owl House, and Moringmark’s comics were The Owl House for a few months, it is important to me that their contributions to the themes of the series be understood.

So, I have collected a few of Moringmark’s posts that were published between the end of season two and the start of season three, and I have some thoughts.

Starting with this one, published Sep 16, 2022.

Moringmark had two main takes on the show that were remarkably accurate, even if their aesthetics were different (I will get to that in a moment).

The first and the one most obvious in this post is the slice of life story of the Hex Squad moving in with the Nocedas for a while.

Moringmark is an incredibly funny writer, so a lot of the time this was leveraged for humour, and that shines through here, but this is more than that.

The designs are different to the original show. Everyone’s hair has grown out a bit with two exceptions to show that time has passed, although not much. And Vee’s human design is tweaked slightly to allow for a visible difference between her and Luz. They still look like sisters, but she is a lot simpler and looks slightly younger, reflecting their dynamic.

I also appreciate her shirt design. “Me.” She is more self actualized here than in her series incarnation. She is no longer playing a part and is fully her own person.

Notably, the Hex Squad all have similar clothing designs. It’s the same shirt in different colours with an emblem on the front. Notably, Willow’s is slightly smaller on her and Gus’ is slightly bigger on him, while Hunter doesn’t wear one at all. They are all Luz’ clothes because none of the squad had their own. The group hasn’t been able of felt the need to get clothes that fit everyone yet.

Subtle storytelling.

Speaking of which, the only two who’s hair hasn’t grown since the series finale are Gus, who’s style has stayed the same, and Hunter’s, who’s decidedly has not.

Hunter is missing his iconic curl thingo that hangs over his face, and judging by his expression in the first panel, it was removed extremely recently. He too is a different person, symbolically ready to move past his trauma.

But then news of Belos is brought up, and his expression changes, and stays that way. Hunter becomes set and focused and determined. Even when in Camila’s car at the end, his eyes are glued to the mirror. He is constantly on the lookout, constantly ready. I’ve seen this trauma response in real life.

I recently watched Xena Warrior Princess, a show that is goofy as all hell, and probably the most nineties television series that ever graced our screens. I mean that both as a compliment and as an… oh boy.

The series is notable in this context for the following exchange:

“See how calm the surface of the water is? That was me once. And then…” (Throws rock in water) “The water ripples and churns. That’s what I became.”

“But if we sit here long enough, it will go back to being still again. It will go back to being calm.”

“But the stone’s still under there. It’s now part of the lake. It might look as it did before, but it’s forever changed.”

Hunter thinks that he can just cut out that part of his life and move on. That’s why he cuts his hair, but its also why he is so focused on getting to Belos. But the events that shaped him are still there, under the surface.

The reason I selected this comic for analysis was its relation to the series’ theme of family. I.e. bad family will leave a mark that you can’t get away from, you can just try to hide it. But good family will try to help you and comfort you and offer you guidance and protection. To make that point, in comes Camila and her car.

Going back a bit to the subtle storytelling. The kids’ reactions to the news of Belos are the centerpieces of the fourth panel. It’s slightly smaller than its predecessor, which has a tiny zooming effect, but everyone has a distinct emotion. Luz and Amity look to each other, Vee gives a worried expression, and Gus and Willow immediately clock Hunter’s tone shift.

But Camila also responds. Not much, just a glance and an eyebrow raise, but enough to show she noticed.

Thematically, the fact that Camila’s offer to help the crew take on Belos happens off screen infers that it wasn’t up for debate. She was fully ready to throw hands with this man from the minute she saw his impact on the children she had taken under her wing.

Which leaves an opportunity for humour. The Owl House is a satirical comedy, and Moringmark gets that. He undercuts the cool moment of the crew walking down the road, but then makes it clear that the catharsis of this isn’t going away.

That’s really it. Catharsis. Moringmark writes comedy and drama in remarkably similar ways, and while the above post is a clear example of it, I need to bring up this comic, which delves into that parental theme for a different kind of emotion.

Notice what I said earlier about Vee and her self-actualization. It doesn’t get as much of a spotlight as Hunter, but this is also someone deeply scarred by Belos, and yet she seems a lot more healthy than him. Maybe because she has had time and exposure to a better parent figure than Belos. Maybe because she has had time to sit by the lake and watch the ripples die down.

Look how Moringmark achieves pacing here. You know the tense situation; you don't need words to hear the bounce and ring of that amulet. Even the cut to the two's faces amplifies this mood. Its shape heightens the perspective while the blank background cuts away from everything else, so you don't get distracted.

Next up, we have the story back on the Boiling Isles. Moringmark went for a Mad-Max style road trip story type of thing, and there is so much here to choose from.

I was tempted to go with this comic because it has the bus in it, and I love the bus. But I think the most emblematic of this part of the story was this:

Published on July 19, 2022, this comic is notable for a few things.

The little details in this comic stand out to me on a storytelling level. How the trappers are the Collector’s henchmen, and how the renegades are using necklaces similar to King’s to avoid notice from the Collector. That’s a really cool idea.

But I had to include this comic for its portrayal of the Collector and of Boscha.

You would think that this isn’t too different from how the Collector is usually characterized. They are doing the exact same thing as they did in King’s Tide.

Obviously, this is different by dint of how Skara’s reaction to hitting a solid surface at the speed of sound will probably be different to Belos’. But it’s also important to note that this version of the Collector works by the rules of the game.

This is a cosmic entity that has rules, and therefore is something that can be worked around. They have a soft spot for those who try to follow the rules, balanced out by an utter disregard for mortal life. This version of the Collector is terrifying specifically because we have seen him try this before and succeed. We know how this ends, the Collector’s character is a twist.

Speaking of which, we also know how Boscha will act. She is mean, as has been established by the comic in its first few panels. We learn that she doesn’t seem to care that Skara is injured. This is not someone we expect a character arc out of.

But then we get a moment of clarity. We get Boscha risking her life Skara. We get a moment of redemption for Boscha.

And I’m going to level with you. I like this far more than For the Future. Consider this foreshadowing, as I have a fanfic in the works that is based in this version of the story. That is, what might have happened had this or something similar to this been the canon.

I will remind you that this was the canon when it was written, as much as anything else. We didn’t have another option. This was The Owl House.

A lesser concept in the original series was that of redemption and relationships. Amity is redeemed through the compassion that Luz shows for her. Not even love at this point, but friendship that blossoms into romantic attraction.

Similarly, Alador is redeemed through his love for his daughter. Lilith is redeemed through her love for her sister. Mattholomule and Hunter are redeemed through their friendships with Gus and Luz respectively. Etc.

This comic just continues those themes into showing Boscha redeem herself through her friendship with Skara.

It is worth pointing out that this isn’t a full heel turn. Boscha isn’t ready to admit anything or stop being mean, but it is a start. He heart is in the right place, even if her brain is not.

This is why Moringmark is canon, at least to me. These versions are fun as AUs, but when they were released, they were as good of a continuation as we were going to get. They understood the themes and the message of the story, as well as its tone, and in a way, they carried the torch.

And they are still going. As of writing this, Moringmark has delved into future and past timelines. They have written three full series about Luz and co.’s children, Boscha and Skara’s romance during the events of the series, and an AU evil Luz.

This is what The Owl House is right now, and it’s what series like this are. I brought up Xena Warrior Princess earlier, and that story still has fanfiction and fanart made of it, a quarter of a century after it finished. Stories exist in the collective consciousness, and while we can trace the lineage of The Owlhouse through the shows that inspired it and that it will go on to inspire, Moringmark is emblematic of the fan community as a whole who keep the flame burning.

The Owl House series has finished, but its story lives on. Not just through Moringmark, but through every other fan who so much as makes a shitpost. We keep the lights on, we decide when to call it quits, we carry the torch.

Light, do not faulter.

Final Thoughts

There are so many other Moringmark comics that I could have spoken about. From the dramatic and emotional with Skara comforting Matt Tholomule to my darling, the bus. But I left it where I did for a few reasons.

It is not my intention to be sycophantic about Moringmark. I don’t want to be invasive, and if this comes across as such, I apologise and will remedy that. But also, this isn’t about Moringmark.

This is about the fan community. Moringmark has made themself the head of that community through sheer time and hard work, and has made themself as big enough part of it that I can feel comfortable writing this and it not feeling out of place alongside the original series.

But there is a lot more of this fandom than Moringmark, I can’t discuss every fanfic at length. Just know that they are out there, and you can find them. My ask box is open for recommendation requests, but you should also just go and look for them yourself. Follow artists, support them if you are able. This is a community, we should act like it.

Next week, I am diving into the final season with Thanks To Them, so stick around if that interests you.

Previous - Next

#rants #literary analysis #literature analysis #what's so special about...?#character analysis #toh #the owl house #toh hunter #toh vee #toh camila #toh skara #toh boscha #moringmark

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astudyinfreewill · 27 days ago

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hi! sorry for this random ask but I've read your amazing post about adam's birth chart, it was so interesting and spot on, so I was wondering if you'd ever shared your headcanons about ronan's big 3 or big 6 too :) if not, I'd really love to know what you think! imo in addition to his scorpio sun having pisces and aquarius placements would also suit him, and also at least one fire (aries?) placement 🌸

hey there!! please never apologise for random asks, i love getting visitors - and i'm glad you enjoyed my astrology thoughts about adam! :D

i don't believe i've shared my hc's for ronan's big 3/6, but rest assured i do have them, and in fact i'll do you one better - i have his whole birth chart, which was concocted with/peer reviewed by some of my really good friends, way back when in 2019 :')

(incidentally, i'm a little disappointed no one bit the bait in my previous post asking to guess how many scorpio placements ronan has... but i'll tell you right now the answer is seven. yes, seven. i don't think anyone's shocked)

anyway, before i get started, one caveat: this is the chart that i made when ronan's original birth date was revealed. people who've been in this fandom a long time may remember that initially, when the sampler for call down the hawk dropped, ronan's birthday was placed on the 14th of november, and it was only later, in the published book, that stiefvater retconned it to be november 1st. general consensus at the time seems to be she did it for two reasons:

a) November 1st is All Saints' Day, and maggie wanted to make ronan as catholiccore as possible

b) maggie is notoriously bad at timelines, and she realised belatedly that putting ronan's birthday so late clashed with some other events in the books (iirc, political events happening with the gansey family??? OF ALL THINGS??? like. be so fr rn margaret who even cares???).

personally, based on the fact very few timelines make sense in the trc/tdt world, i tend to think it was mostly the catholiccore thing. the problem i have with this is that for astrology purposes, having ronan born on nov. 1st changes a crucial aspect of his chart, and i simply won't stand for such shenanigans. but let's get into it, shall we?

as we all know, ronan's a scorpio sun - but you asked about his big 6, so: if we go by his og birthday on 14th november 1994, that makes him an aries moon, a leo venus, and a scorpio... everything else dkgjfdlg. ok, so we don't technically know his rising sign, but come ON - he's 200% a scorpio rising. some evidence from my trusted resource thee cafeastrology:

"Scorpio Ascendant people have a lot of presence. There is something about them that tells the world that they are not to be pushed around. Their manner commands respect, and in some cases, fear. [...] You either love or hate Scorpio rising people [...] They seem to look right through people, seeing through superficiality. This can be quite intimidating to some, and intriguing to others.

^ other than the invoking fear/seeming dangerous (see: ronan the pitbull, the pit viper, the snake - ronan whom, per the books description, you would not hand over a baby to hold, and isn't that a misleading impression), this to me is very reminiscent of that part in trb where blue says that she finds herself craving ronan's approval and good opinion, in spite/because of how intimidating she finds him. she can tell he sees through the bullshit, and she likes that.

on a cute pynch note, it seems also that Scorpio rising people are drawn to down-to-earth and reliable partners, with whom "they generally look for complete commitment" - which seems very fitting for ronan "imprinted on adam before they ever met and decided to mate for life AND the afterlife" lynch.

...also, it's just good fun to think of ronan as being a hyperscorpio lol.

on to the other placements!

now, here is the one that makes me resent maggie changing his birth date: if we stick to nov 14th, then ronan would be an aries moon. this is PERFECT for him, as despite being a water sign, he's definitely got some fire to him, especially in his subconscious/emotional side (see, anon, your intuition was right!! :D).

mostly, an aries moon has to do with impulsivity, impatience, and rash decisions - which, hello, is ronan to a T:

"Life is a series of emergencies for Lunar Ariens. They live in the moment and have a hard time waiting for things to happen. Whims of the moment take absolute precedence in their lives."

life as a series of emergencies? for ronan "always the car crash" lynch? say less bestie. furthermore: "dealing with new sentiments and needs stirs up a huge desire for activity", which seems to me to be how he largely deals with his feelings for adam in trc. don't know how to cope with the fact you're absolutely head over heels gonzo for one of your best friends? SIMPLE just put him a shopping cart and crash it into your car at breakneck speed!! ideal date right there-- high energy, low talking, and plenty of convenient excuses for touching.

Additionally, Aries moon is said to be very defensive and take things really personally, but also that "their flare-ups generally end almost as quickly as they started", which again strikes me as true for ronan. although often consumed by their needs, they are also direct, and don't tend to play manipulation games. other interesting/fitting traits:

they project a strong personality but actually go through emotional rollercoasters quite often, and their moodiness presents not as them getting withdrawn but rather being temperamental

they appear to enjoy trouble and confrontations, and get easily bored with environments that are too peaceful

interestingly: "their childhood homes are often battlegrounds", as their strong personality can make them not the most peaceful to live with... i bet declan has a thing or two to say about that.

HOWEVER... if we change his chart to nov 1st, then ronan's moon is actually in libra. there are many reasons why i think this placement, for ronan, is a travesty, starting with the trait that "Because their drive for harmony, peace, and sharing is so powerful, Lunar Librans are apt to do a lot of conceding". (i could almost stop here tbh - "drive for sharing" is already a nonstarter with ronan). furthermore, lunar libras are described as charming, flirty, and "rarely directly aggressive", rather projecting a "gentle and refined" outlook... again, not quite a match. finally, lunar libras are said to be diplomatic with acquaintances (LMAO...), but argumentative with their partners and rarely letting them win (LMAO surely not the ronan lynch that has adam in his phone as "management").

it was very clear to me and my esteemed colleagues from the crying club server that this, quite simply, will not stand. kelly @ellipsea and i even tried changing his birth year and generating other charts to see if we could find a november 1st placement that was more fitting - but we had no luck finding a better match, plus 1994 is usually taken as the consensus, and changing years threw adam's astral chart completely out of wack as well - so we decided to just act like despite being born on nov 1st, his birth chart remains as nov 14th, lol. or as kelly wisely put it:

which is of course: correct. and so, as gansey boy would put it, onwards and upwards! 😌

mercury is meant to rules the sphere of communication - and for ronan, a scorpio mercury makes a lot of sense. scorpio mercury people are said to, essentially, want to cut the bullshit and get to the heart of the matter, of any matter. they're observant of other people's secrets, though not willing to divulge or examine their own, and they will deep dive into something that makes you uncomfortable and give no fucks. they hate superficiality (check), and can come across as quite 'dark' or negative and suspicious (check again), but they will also staunchly defend/support anyone they care about.

i'll close on a quote about them that made me laugh: "Their idea of constructive criticism can be interpreted as destructive criticism". chef's kiss, no notes.

interestingly, this is the only other placement that changes drastically by moving ronan's birthday on the 1st, changing his mercury from scorpio to - AGAIN - libra. shall we check out that description?

"Libra communicators come across as very pleasing. Diplomacy comes naturally to these natives. At the very least, they take many pains to be diplomatic--"

...yeah, no. i don't think so. i'm gonna have to stick with nov. 14th for this one as well, i fear.

thankfully!!! the rest of his big 6 remain unchanged regardless of the specific november date, so we can forge ahead without second thoughts.

if mercury rules communication, mars rules aggression/conflict. ronan's mars is in leo, bringing us back to a mix of fire and water. some highlights of a leo mars:

strong need to create in some way (ronan does so quite literally with his dreaming)

enjoys the pleasures of risk-taking, but still generally has strong willpower and sense of self

strong idealistic streak, hates disloyalty, and fiercely defends their high principles

apparently - or at least according to cafeastrology - this is also one of the "more sexual positions" of mars, making mars leos easy to arouse, but only as long as love and romance are involved to make their passion long-standing... i mean i can't say i disagree here 😮‍💨

the mention of sex/romance segues neatly into ronan's venus sign, which is - of course - scorpio. now, venus in scorpio has two main traits, both of which are extremely ronan: intensity and commitment.

essentially, scorpio in venus people make for devoted, laser-focused lovers whose feelings run deep. they fearlessly go all-in when it comes to intimacy, they are intensely loyal and incredibly unlikely to stray. a word that comes up a lot is possession, which also rings true of the guy who's not willing to share adam in the afterlife, lol. they also tend to want to know their lover completely, but are not always equally forthcoming with their secrets, which i think we can agree is also like ronan.

one quote that struck me: "Their body-and-soul love and commitment can be so intense [...] it makes loving them a very heavy experience". this makes me think of the siken quote about taking romantic love as a religion - which i always associate with ronan - and also about adam's thoughts in trk, about how ronan is the most difficult of any option, how loving him is not a game and he's aware of the enormity of his feelings - and still decides to go for it. which is lucky, because as it turns out, the way to win a scorpio venus' heart is to demonstrate your complete commitment and loyalty to them in return. <3

and for the last sign... we have another scorpio placement. i'll admit i don't know a lot about jupiter in astrology because i tend to stick more to "big 5" analysis, but apparently it stands for luck, vision, and personal growth. from my reading, jupiter in scorpio people are at their best, career-wise, when they "put their “all” into a project or undertaking, and use their magnetic powers to heal others". these projects can often include rather esoterical studies, delving into subjects that are considered deep and/or mysterious.... and honestly, that's kind of perfect for ronan at the end of the trilogy, considering that he's making it his mission to help other dreamers through his considerable powers in all things dream-related. :')

so, there ya go, anon, hope you enjoyed this deep dive on my objectively correct and canon interpretations headcanons for ronan's big 6! if you have any thoughts or questions, i'd be delighted to hear them - this is such a fun subject to yap about teehee<3

#trc #td3 #dt #ronan lynch #astrology #answer #anonymous #thecryingclub #what a treasure it was to go back and reread these discussions :')#i hope you enjoy dear anon friend!#ambra.txt #mp

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utilitycaster · 10 months ago

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Do you think this new option could lead to a break up in the party and some of the characters leaving the group? Because I can't see everyone agreeing that this is the best solution, but I also think Ashton is stubborn enough to refuse to consider anything else

This is going to be a very long answer for what is a pretty short question that could be answered in one sentence, and here's why.

I've gotten a lot of questions in the past week or so that are specifically asking me what I think the future will be - for campaign 3, and for Critical Role generally. And I've gotten a little frustrated by them, which is somewhat uncharacteristic of me because I love having opinions, but the fact is, I don't know and I don't even have strong opinions. So I dug into that, and why people might be asking these things more than usual, and I really think it's because the narrative of this campaign is so constantly under threat of derailment or going in the same old circles that pretty much anyone in the fandom with any sense of narrative structure, and what makes for a well-crafted story is like "so...what's happening." Which is translating as coming to me, a person who is very good at sounding confident and knowledgeable.

I do not fucking know. I share this frustration, and I cannot be the person to clear it up. i am not even the best at narrative or analysis in this fandom; as I pretty frequently state I took the hard STEM option with regards to my education so while I read a lot and have a pretty good sense for the lay person, there are actual like, trained and published writers. For what it's worth several of them are my mutuals and while I'm not putting the rest of this post on them I do feel safe saying they agree that the lack of narrative direction is at the heart of most people's frustrations with this campaign, even if they enjoy the characters. But getting back to the point, I do not know.

Here's where I stand on the actual plot before I go back to the bigger picture. I think that unless Bells Hells decide on their course of action pretty quickly, no ending will really feel satisfying due to that sense of directionlessness - and there are arguments for Bells Hells to take either the Arch Heart or the Accord's plan, though I think the Accord's is far superior, but they need to pick one.

Because of the ongoing issues with this party lacking perspectives that tied in well to this story and having to hinge everything on either one singular interpretation of one single instance in extraordinary circumstances (eg: Dorian), or stuff that feels, as I've said before, retconned, I have generally been extremely amenable to Bells Hells losing party members either through a split or through character deaths. This is not out of any sort of vindictiveness or dislike of characters, but just a hope that now that they know the vibe, the cast will make a character who has a perspective that is relevant to the story (which, FCG is not an ideal example because they happened to be the character who had perhaps best grown from their original concept to fit into the themes of this campaign, but Braius obviously is a very strong character informed by the story as well). I also think that a lot of the indecisiveness is part of the characters' various natures and that will also be a factor, especially since a new character can be both decisive, have a clear point of view, and be a lot more comfortable pissing off the rest of the party to assert it. So: if Bells Hells as they currently stand can decide what to do quickly, no need to break up! But if they can't, yeah, it would be to their and the story's benefit to do so. That's before we get into, for example, the sacrifice required from specifically Imogen or Fearne for the Arch Heart's plan; Ashton is not the one who has to risk their own autonomy for the rest of eternity. They might die in battle, but they will not become a husk housing an ancient hunger. I think the people who might have to do so get to decide.

Now: it may seem counterintuitive to demand a clear direction from a TTRPG, when part of the appeal is that we don't know how it will end, but the thing is, with the past campaigns, we did not know if the party would succeed but we knew that they wanted to do. Vox Machina could have fallen to Vecna but we always knew they were going to fight Vecna. The Mighty Nein's decisions not to get involved with the war are not indecision but rather a very clear decision (do not get involved). Their later reversal of that decision similarly follows from who they are and the richness of their pasts.

Bells Hells does not have that, and the endless circular conversations are both circular in game and a vicious cycle out of it; because we've always been focused on this plot from very early on and because the characters were not developed as strongly, we have a lot of very indecisive people who are too trapped in this crisis to develop and become decisive. In a way, it feels like Matt's been something like the Arch Heart here: saying "oh, THIS would be interesting, I wonder what will happen" at everything when it's like "ok but consequences are like, important, and maybe you should let things play out. I mean, two cycles isn't great but it is still only two; maybe you should actually let your children/players figure this out, even if it doesn't fit your idea of what should happen, instead of throwing yet another new thing at them."

So: I don't know and I don't have answers about Campaign 3 events at this point because, again, as someone who has a pretty good sense of what makes for a satisfying narrative, it has frequently subverted those requirements (which, to be clear, is bad - it's not genre subversion or a masterful play on expectations, it's subverting actual satisfying narrative beats; as someone said on one of my other posts in not quite so many words, it's like storyline-baiting). I know I tend to present my points with confidence, and I am pretty confident about a lot of things like CR lore and said sense of narrative, but like...maybe this guess on the fandom vibe is incorrect, but I think I'm getting these questions because people are saying "hey, do you know where we're going? I think I am reading this map wrong" to me and I'm here to say "no, you're reading it fine, we've gone off the road and are just kinda crashing through underbrush, and maybe we'll hit another road and continue on that and I can give some insight, but also we might go off a cliff, no way to tell."

#answered #minxie-the-sabertooth-kitty #honestly the metanarrative of the arch heart as matt slaps. good job me.#also i kept this remarkably diplomatic given some of the moronic ThIs CaMpAiGn SuBvErTs ThE oThErS posts #cr spoilers

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