#and he has a very different relationship with her from neil and andrew

[foxstens]

can we please talk about kevin and abby

[smittenmeraki]

I have so many random ideas of Andreil being found out by the media in the strangest ways. My personal fav so far is them going pro and being on different teams. They end up playing against each other and everyone starts to think their rivals because Andrew keeps launching the ball at Neils helmet. After like 7 headshots from across the court Neil swears at him in german something along the lines of "I know you're doing that on purpose quit being a bitch for the sake of your entertainment or I swear I will empty your candy drawer" and of course Andrew's just there with his blank expression leaning on his racket, knowing Neil will forget all about it when they're home. However, all the fans see is Andrew targeting Neil over and over no matter where he is on the court so everyone thinks they hate each other until some weeks later an article is released with pictures of them grocery shopping together. Andrew is in the cart eating candy he hasn't even bought yet while Neil scans the aisle with a hand in Andrews hair. Another picture of them loading everything into the car, Andrew with a hand on Neils waist as he opens the backdoor. The article is titled something like "rivals or lovers : a deep dive into their history" and it brings up points like Andrew protecting Neil from Riko and Neil getting Andrew to shut down the goal with just a few words (ones no one knows), but also points of them shoving each other and getting in each others faces (tbh they were just flirting but from an outside prospective it was violence because they are never normal) all of the fan theories come to a head when Neil gets interviewed.

"What is your thoughts on the rumors about you and Minyard?"

"Rumors?"

"Yes, the ones about you two being teammates turned rivals turned lovers. Many fans are speculating what your relationship is and several articles have become very popular over it."

"We were never rivals??" Neil is absolutely lost at this idea, complete confusion.

"Really? Never once over the years?"

"No? And what articles? I don't understand how this has anything to do with Exy."

"Its about your career in the sense that Andrew Minyard has been a challenge for you." Neil smiles at the idea of Andrew being a challenge. "There was a really big article that shared some photos of you two together at a grocery store. It's rather unusal to see you two in a domestic setting, can you tell us about that? Many are wondering why you shop together." The first photo is pulled up on the big screen and Neil just stares for a moment, unsure of when it was taken.

"1. Its creepy that that was taken without us knowing. 2. I don't know what you want me to tell you, Andrew's not allowed out of the cart because he's a mence to shop with or maybe he refuses to let me go alone because I constantly forget things. Its just normal every day life, same as everyone else. 3. Because we live together?? I still don't see the relevance any this has to Exy. Many spouses go against each others teams, it's a part of being pro's."

"Spouses? So you are confirming you and Minyard are married?"

"Not on paper. Fundamentally yes. I thought this interview was supposed to be about how our season is going?" Neil sits back, baffled but also slightly smug from the look of shock on the interviewers face.

Meanwhile Andrew is at home with the cats eating a tub of ice cream while watching the interview thinking to himself 'yeah, fucking tell her. Noisy ass drama seeker.'

[elene78-blog]

This is just my opinion, okay? Don't eat me, but...

I believe that in the fics jerjean, the verbal consent and "ignorance" of Jean in sex that borders on absurdity are often given importance.

Jean is not an idiot. He has been sexually assaulted at an early age, but he knows what has been done to him and he knows what sex is. He knows how to distinguish between rape and a consensual act. I don't think he has reality altered. He knows very well that sex is not aggression and that it is normal that you are not forced to do things you don't want to do. In fact, he has Cat and Laila as his reference to what a healthy relationship should look like, and he is also not scandalized by Andrew and Neil's relationship. Jean knows perfectly well the difference between what he has experienced and what is "normal."

Do you think that if Jean had reality altered here, he would have threatened the Trojans with killing them in their sleep if they tried to touch him? He wouldn't have done it because he would assume it's normal, but it's not like that. Do you think Jean wouldn't have gone crazy if he had thought Jeremy was raped when he saw the marks on his neck? Of course he would have done it, but he understands (even if he doesn't like it or share it) that there are people who have aggressively consensual sex.

When Jean has sex, I very much doubt that Jeremy has to remind her at every step that he can say no (those fics are exhausting). In fact, I see more likely that this may bother Jean because it may sound too condescending. When these two have relationships, it will be because the trust between the two is practically absolute. They are not andreil, let's not forget. Their foundations and personalities are different. For starters, Jerejean relies on a capitalized friendship. By taking this step, they will know exactly what they want and need from each other. There will be consent, of course, but it doesn't have to be continuous.

On the other hand, although Jean's knowledge will not be as broad as that of a person who has had consensual sexual encounters, I do not think he needs to be constantly guided as I have also seen in most fics. I think Jean will behave in a similar way to Neil's with Andrew, but with more interest and "hunger." I think his first encounters with Jeremy will be rather "passionate" and "hungry." They will have plenty of time to learn from each other later, but not at first, both for Jean's sake and for Jeremy's sake (perhaps even more for Jeremy's sake, which needs to be validated as a person and not as a sexual object).

AFTG has a strong pillar in consent to the issues it touches on, but... some fics go further, I think.

[odetojupiter]

so, we know that abuse and victim responses to abuse are very central to aftg, but what i find interesting is how other characters respond to the victim’s reactions, especially when it comes to mourning their abuser. there’s something about kevin mourning riko, aaron mourning tilda, neil mourning mary, andrew mourning cass, thats so important to me because it really truly highlights how even when people are united through similar traumas, the differences in their situations makes it impossible to fully understand the relationship a person has to their abuser. neil, aaron, and andrew are united through the abuse, neglect, or - what the fuck is the word i’m thinking of? permit? condone? i mean, knowingly allowing it to happen and not intervening - stemming from a maternal figure. but neil can’t understand why andrew would hold on to cass for so long - he refused to let her go until aaron came into the picture. and andrew can’t understand why aaron would mourn for tilda, potentially viewing aaron’s grief as a betrayal of their promise. and they all ridicule kevin for his reactions to riko. of course, neil and andrew are also abused by riko, but they still can’t understand the complicated relationship between kevin and riko because, at the end of the day, they just weren’t there.

i mean this is primarily an observation but i really love how trauma and trauma response is depicted as nuanced, complex and overall just difficult to understand from an outsider perspective in the books. it reads as really real, and though it can be frustrating when a character doesn’t understand a different character’s response, you have to understand that their perception of said character’s response is warped by their own experience of abuse.

andrew bounced from home to home, never had stability, so obviously he held tight on to the first mother-figure that didn’t outright hurt him. his self-worth was probably low enough that he thought living with drake was a fine price to pay to keep cass.

neil only ever had his mother, and he’d willingly accept her harsh hands because he believed she was just keeping him safe from the very real dangers that were closing in on them.

aaron was dealing with an addiction, and so was his mother; he was equally dependent on her to avoid withdrawal as he was scared of her anger.

i don’t really have a point anymore but you get what i’m saying

[xhoneyghost]

high school aftg au where the twins study in a different school than Neil so he usually drives to their school to wait for Andrew. because he is such a little shit, when Aaron starts to date a new girl, neil "accidentally" bumps into her outside the school and says 'im not from this school, im just waiting my boyfriend. maybe you know him very small, strong, blond hair, hazel eyes, has a creepy twin brother"

the girl goes, "what?"

and neil always says, "yeah, we don't really hide our relationship but we don't broadcast it either. He's very sweet!" and shows the photo that he carries on his phone's case (a selfie with Andrew kissing his cheek)

The girls always assume that he is talking about Aaron because for them he is the sweet one while Andrew is the creepy one. Later, Aaron will get home mad and Andrew is always so amused

[joejhang]

my aftg hot takes

most of these are pretty lukewarm but i'm gonna get flamed for them anyway but whatever. spoilers ??? ahead ??? idk read at ur own risk

i don't think andreil ever say i love you to each other; i feel like the discourse about this is virtually endless ever since nora said it but honestly her explanation was so valid??? they're such a show not tell couple it just makes so much sense for them to show the "i love you" in their actions than ever saying the words out loud. esp bc neither of them have ever really heard those words and have them mean anything real or true or actually loving. personally i think their little percentages and the "i hate you"'s and kisses and keys mean more to them than an "i love you" ever could. i'm not a purist on this tho i do think i could visualise it happening maybe somewhere along the road i just think nora's explanation for this is very very in line with canon andreil.

i don't hate thea muldani; i've made a post abt this but basically my thoughts around her are literally just: she's a human being, and she's never gonna be perfect. i also find it very...interesting how the fandom likes to flame thea (an explicitly stated woman of colour) for being "problematic" and a "terrible person/character" when she doesn't act all that different from andrew, neil and kevin (white men) ??? idk it seems a little strange to me bc she seems pretty on par with them on whatever moral compass this batshit crazy fandom has decided to impose on these fictional and very much morally ambiguous characters. anyway go check out my post i go a lot deeper into thea's character and why she does a lot of things wrong but i don't rlly think she's deserving of the insane amounts of hate she gets in the fandom.

i don't think andreil ever get married; this MIGHT be me projecting bc the idea of marriage is just a very complicated and rough concept in my mind but also just i feel like there's something so beautiful about andreil never really putting a label on their relationship??? like they never define it by calling the other their "boyfriend" or "husband" they just are. they have nothing "concrete" binding them like a marriage certificate but they choose to stay with each other through everything. idk it's real to me but again i'm not a purist people can do whatever they want.

i've said it before but i'll keep saying it till enough people hear me: the aftg fandom mischaracterises literally the main fucking characters; i'm mostly talking about andrew and ESPECIALLY neil here bc neil is not a sweet, sunshiney, oblivious, blushy softboy and andrew is not a cold, unemotional, stoic, "conceal don't feel" stone. since i've already bitched on and on about neil's mischaracterisation let's just talk about andrew for a sec. i think andrew is actually a deeply emotional person and is fully aware of the feelings he experiences. does he vocalise or express them often? no but more often than not they show themselves anyway. him crashing out after neil was kidnapped, letting himself get walked like a dog by neil for three books straight, choking allison for slapping aaron, idk i could go on. but yeah you get it.

i don't actually think neil is that oblivious; before people come at me like "but nora said!" or whatever yeah, i know she said he's as dense as a brick when it comes to people flirting with him. considering how much of the ec the aftg fandom likes to disregard allow me to disregard this little bit of it, yeah? this isn't me tryna impose my own projections onto nora's characters, this is lit just me tryna explain how i understand neil josten (he's my bsf btw). he literally clocks his feelings for andrew in trk (after his deep convo™ with nicky) but he just files it away for later bc he doesn't consider attraction or romantic interest anything to be thinking about considering he's got the mafia and his serial killer dad on his tail. i also don't really blame him for not catching onto andrew's feelings earlier (tho doesn't he get pretty fucking close during that one convo they have in exites in trk???? someone correct me if i'm wrong but) bc dude andrew was out here sending fucking mixed ass signals like bro was saying "you are a pipe dream" and "i hate you" in the same fucking conversations like??? neil has always taken andrew at face value and he's not about to question him now. he's also never confused or uncertain about nicky or marissa and what their comments about him meant, he just genuinely does not gaf about them so he doesn't acknowledge them or pay them any attention in his narration. i truly truly think his dismissal of all the advances made upon him in aftg were borne out of indifference, not obliviousness.

have already said this in detail but i don't think andrew's actually a misogynist; the wording doesn't feel right. i'd probably describe andrew's distrust of women (esp. those in motherly/mother roles) as a similar ingrained wariness that neil has for older men. this is something borne out of trauma and shitty experiences that takes time and trust to unlearn. nora says a lot of things the fandom disregards and for me, this is one of those things i'm a little iffy about. misogyny actually isn't reflected in andrew's actions at all, i'd say. does he respect women? no. but he doesn't respect anyone unless they've actually earned it. and among the people he does respect and care for there are women (renee, bee). he doesn't treat women any differently and obv doesn't think they're any weaker than men are (considering renee wipes the floor w him their first sparring sesh). andrew's an equal opportunity hater and i don't think he actually has any sexist or even misogynistic tendencies. i think what is there is just a slightly biased worldview of disliking/mistrusting mother figures, given his bad experiences w tilda and cass (they've left him w more long-term emotional damage that's probably rlly difficult and complicated for him to work through esp considering cass did love??? him and he did want her enough to be willing to suffer dr*ke to be close to her; there's more to it but for the sake of word count i won't go into it) but honestly it doesn't actually show that much??? if people wanna say he hates women, sure, but for one, he doesn't hate a lot of things he's just very indifferent to them and two, he holds a pretty similar apathetic distaste for most people and things, so it's not like a very big distinction. i also think the whole "no girls" thing w aaron was very much a personal thing, and his mistrust of katelyn probably came from aaron's past (apparently negative) experiences w other girlfriends and friendships in general. and if i remember correctly the deal wasn't even "no girls" it was just "family only" which is why aaron didn't make friends w the rest of the foxes either. i digress but i don't think saying "andrew isn't a misogynist" is robbing him of any nuance as a character.

i like nicky and honestly feel similarly towards him as i do about thea; he isn't perfect and never will be and i think while the way he acts towards neil and others (see: matt, kevin) is pretty untoward and inappropriate, i also do see where he's coming from, esp after aaron's explanation of it. that it's a defence mechanism coming from someone who's experienced a lot of prejudice and harm because of his sexuality. obv i think everyone can agree his assault on neil was fucked up but i think nora was right in saying that nicky was high and drunk and not rlly in his right mind at the time, and he does apologise and i'm pretty sure she also said he and neil work it out privately anyway. he's a messy character and definitely not perfect queer rep but again, he's pretty realistic, and i think he's honestly a rlly well-written and complex character.

[yourleftpinkytoe-blog]

Pinkytoe’s top ten Aftg hot takes

Read with caution I’m very passionate about my thoughts and did not hold back on my opinions. This is not an attack on people who think differently it is me putting my perspective out there.(with some harsh wording)

1: The rift in Andrew and Aaron’s relationship is just as much Aaron’s fault as it is Andrew’s.

A lot of the time I see people framing Aaron as Andrew’s victim which is a weird interpretation of their relationship to me. It’s not just Andrew controlling Aaron, it is also Aaron fundamentally not understanding that Andrew is a person who has thoughts and feelings. Aaron fundamentally doesn’t understand that Andrew is not doing everything in his power to hurt Aaron he’s just trying not to lose Aaron. So with that understanding Aaron goes out of his way to hurt Andrew like aaron thinks he’s doing to him. The whole dynamic is toxic but neither is exclusively the perpetrator or the victim. The deal is a double edged sword and when people pretend otherwise it feels like it’s doing a disservice to the reality of the situation.

2: Erasing Aaron’s homophobia is not the take that some people think it is.

I see a lot of people making claims that Aaron isn’t homophobic he just doesn’t like hearing about his family’s sex lives. But I feel like people are blinded by their love of his character to see that his homophobia is a character flaw of his. He was raised by Tilda. Tilda was raised with Luther. It would not surprise me if she saw extremely homophobic. Also it takes place in 2006/7 casual homophobia was so fucking rampant… obviously he’s gonna have some uncomfortable opinions on gay people. But being homophobic is not a permanent state of being he can and probably will grow from where he is in canon. Pretending his comments in canon arn’t what they are is taking a layer from his characterization.(plus a layer from the rift in Andrew and Aaron’s relationship is Aaron’s homophobia soooo)

3: Thea was not nearly as bad as some people make her out to be and the whole situation reeks of racism

Yall I said it once and I’ll say it again. THEA AND KEVIN DIDNT START DATING TILL KEVIN WAS A COLLAGE FRESHMAN AND SHE WAS A SINIOR. They were both consenting adults who were in the same shitty traumatizing situation. Stop saying she’s a pedo stop acting like her being mad that he practically cut her out of his life for a year is unjustified. there relationship doesn’t seem perfect but it is not how some people portray it. Stop ur being racist to the only canon black woman!

4: all the hate that the fandom has for Thea should be amplified and given to Roland.

Now let’s see… Roland was 23 when he and a 16 year old Andrew started hooking up. Now that’s some pedo shit. Not only that, but Roland was if fucking boss at the time. Andrew had to tie Roland down in order to make Roland not touch him. You know the teenager he’s hooking up with. I said it once and I’ll say it again, fuck that bitch he’s a shitty shitty person who deserves all the hate the fandom could give him.

5: Hating Riko and thinking he got what was coming for him in the end and understanding that he’s a victim in his own way are not mutually exclusive. I can hate that fucker and still feel bad for him.

I think I explained this in the description well enough

6: Neil’s demisexuality/demiromatisism is non-negotiable. That shit is an important part of his character and erasing it for the sake of shipping is weird as hell.

I can’t even count the amount of times I’ve seen people just take away Neil’s demi identity’s because they want to read about him fucking everyone except the one character he’s been show to have romantic/sexual feelings for. Like I’ve seen people so upset he didn’t end up with Kevin and I’m just like yeah… cause he’s not into Kevin. Makes sense to me. I see so much…

*insert quote about how Neil have and idol like admiration for Kevin and his exy skills*

“Omg Neil wants to fuck Kevin sooooo bad it’s canon*

Like honestly ship whatever but don’t try to change the canon to justify it. Have your fun stop being stupid.

7: While Nicky’s actions in the first book inexcusable, the rampant mischaracterization of him to make him worse than canon is not cool.

This isn’t as big of an issue to me but I see people portraying Nicky as like an actual sexual predator and not just a person who lacks understanding of personal boundaries. What he did to Neil is super fucked up and I’m not excusing him (or anything he did in the first book tbh) but changing him to make the situation more back and white than it is is odd to me.

8: on a similar topic you can not compare what Nicky did in Columbia to what Andrew did.

Andrew had a justified reason for what he did. He is protecting Kevin from the fucking mafia and this shady Kid shows up with a stalker binder and a shit ton of money all while looking like he came off the street. It’s suspicious as hell. Also I want to add that he is on mind and mood altering drugs. The situation is fucked and looking at it from Neil’s perspective it’s even more so cause we know he is not involved in a malicious way, but Andrew didn’t. He acted with every justification while Nicky did not, the only reason Nicky did what he did is cause he wanted to. Both are not good but you can’t compare the two.

9: While kevins alcoholism is not good, the way his fans frame it is grossly misrepresenting the situation.

In the books Kevin is not in a mental state to handle getting sober on top of everything else. His alcoholism is bad and everyone knows it but it is the only thing getting him through things without causing him to shut down. It’s not good but if it’s what he needs to get through this then that’s what he needs. When he’s not in the middle of a mob war he’ll be in a better position to handle himself without alcohol. He’s not a helpless bbg he’s a grown man just trying to get by and if it helps it helps.

10: I do not get the hype around Kevin.

This might be my most controversial take tbh…Like he’s a cool character. And I love him as much as the other foxes but I don’t understand the recent wave of him getting babygirlified. Is it the queen symbolism? Is it just cause he’s conventionally attractive? Is it cause that one scene in the kings men where he was cunty as fuck? No clue.

but yall have fun I may not get it but it is entertaining as shit

[minyards-pipedream]

Cunt or Cryptid?

Welcome to the post where I tell you which of the Foxes serve Cunt and which are just Cryptids.

(The term cryptid is being used because it sounds cute with the title. This post may also contain things that are considered to be on the side of folklore.)

Dan Wilds

Cunt, obviously. She is their fearless leader and not afraid to absolutely annihilate a man’s chances of fathering children with her heels.

Kevin Day

Cunty Cryptid. He’s giving Loch Ness Monster. Everyone knows him, everyone wants to see him, but he knows what he’s good at and stays in his lane. I also think Kevin would enjoy that Nessie has such a long history behind her - the first recorded sighting being written in a biography from the 7th Century.

Andrew Minyard

Now don’t lose me here but CUNT. This is wholly an Autistic Gay Man and he knows what he’s doing to get people wrapped around his fucking finger. He may be the fearless leader of the monsters, but the only monster he’s serving is-

Matt Boyd

Cunt, but Cryptid-adjacent. He obviously serves in both his attitude and choice of girlfriend. However, he is a certified cryptid wrangler as seen with his relationship with both Neil and Seth. He is very close to making the transition from Deer to Not Deer. (A cryptid we will very much be covering later.)

Aaron Minyard

Cryptid. I would make a point about how he’s a collegiate athlete and pre-med student that parties almost every weekend and still manages to hold down a secret girlfriend, buttttt - let’s talk Banshees. Banshees are seen as an omen of death, their wailing cries foretelling of death to come. Aaron Minyard’s actions and words directly lead to the deaths of both Tilda Minyard (he was the one desperate to connect with Andrew and the abuse he received was the reason Andrew killed their mother) and Drake (see above, so they all go to visit, we know Aaron kills Drake). BUT what we don’t talk about is that Andrew went to college FOR Aaron to become a doctor, which means Aaron’s wishes were why Andrew eventually came to pick up his two strays. Neil gets caught by his father’s people because he stays at Palmetto with Andrew’s promise. Stuart and his men kill Nathan and his people saving Neil. Butterfly effect - Aaron also got *all* of those people killed. Banshee. Rant over lol.

Seth Gordon

Serving a secret third option : Corpse

Allison Reynolds

Cunt. She invented Cunt.

Nicky Hemmick

Cryptid. Huan Cat. Chinese folklore states that they’d be kept around the house to ward off evil spirits - like how Nicky came home to protect the twins from his parents. To give them a home where they’d be safe and loved. Huan Cats are also known for their mimicry, which reminds me of how Nicky can slot in with either the monsters or the rest of the team depending on need.

Renee Walker

Cryptid, Renee is our lovely Not Deer. Not Deer are said to appear like normal deer until you get a little closer, and look a little harder. They move differently, limbs appearing to be double jointed, and their faces and antlers contorted - which I think is a great way to allude to Renee’s inner demons that she’s working to grow past. Not Deer are also said to be entirely unafraid of humans, often approaching them when they’re alone and in the dark. This harkens to her relationship she cultivated with Andrew. She may appear normal at first, but upon further inspection, she may have more in common with the monsters than most.

Neil Josten

Cryptid, obviously. I’d like to give him Fresno Nightcrawler. He gives off their strange little man vibes, and no one can quite decide who he is or what they are. (Aliens? A pair of pants blowing on a loose clothes line? A new species of armless primate? It’s giving Alex? Stefan? Chris?) They’ve also been sighted all over the world, often running away from people. (Fresno, Yosemite, Poland.) And for these reasons, Neil Josten is being assigned as a creepy lil’ dude.

[kingofcups]

found this in my drafts enjoy

Monsters - Upperclasmen things that I want to talk about more

Aaron/Dan - Both of whom grew in absolutely shitty situations but I find interesting is how they respond to their upbrings. Both of them are desperate to make something of themselves Dan through the foxes and Aaron through becoming a doctor. But like they both respond very differently to those backgrounds. Dan despite being an ex-stripper seems distinctly unashamed whereas Aaron was literally against joining the foxes bc he didn't want anyone to know about his background and be associated with the foxes. Both them fall in love with someone Matt&Katelyn respectively and hate it bc it goes against their life plan. Dan falling for Matt against all odds, Aaron loving Katelyn despite Andrew. Dan leaving behind her shitty aunt and never seeking with her again vs Aaron still loving Tilda and agreeing to the deal with Andrew even though he hates it bc he wants Andrew around. That bit where Neil says Aaron survived this long on "Willpower and Desperation" fits pre-canon Dan so well.

Matt/Andrew - A lot of people focus on them both being SA surviors which is true but I think how they view themselves have a lot similarties as well. Andrew only living to protect other people when we see in canon andrew defining himself by being a protector vs Matt literally being born to "fix" his parents divorce and his drug addiction starting as a way to fix his relationship with with his dad like theres something there!!

Allison/Nicky - Them both having issues with boundaries bc boundaries/rules have been used against them their whole live. Luther and Maria restricting Nicky's sexuality, personality, who he is and sending him to conversion camp. Allison developing an eating disorder to keep up with her parents demands and later getting cut off when she she doesn't listen to their rules, etc. They both have their own masks that they use to test people and as a coping mechanism. Allison's whole catty bitch nothing affects me act bc of how much the press/and her parents hurt her Nicky being out and proud as response to a lifetime of constant homophobia !!

Renee&Neil - The name changes!!! Natalie and Nathaniel. Them both having aversions to knives bc of their pasts but that view changing bc of Andrew. Renee acting as witness against her former gang and Neil selling out his father's empire. The two killers on the team who have never been caught. It's canon that Neil can tell Renee's past is darker than she seems which is why its so wary but also what about Renee feeling the same thing. Renee seeing Neil and being reminded of who she used to be does that make it harder or easier to be around neil? I have a feeling they could dig up each other's demons and I like that a lot.

Kevin and Seth - Oooof this dynamic is highly underexplored. Like Neil assumes Seth is jealous of Kevin in the beginning and while that might be true dismissing it a jealousy feels like a bit of shallow reading. Seth was one of the original foxes from Wymack's line the only fifth year wheras Kevin is Wyamck's son who was never supposed to be fox material but is here anyways. Kevin sees Seth as like a waste of a scholarship and Seth knows it. Like Seth is a failure and self-sabotages while Kevin is a huge perfectionist whose high standards are detrimental to everyone. Their such opposites it's so interesting to me. Maybe its just me but I feel like Seth's issue w/Kevin comes from the fact that he doesn't really see Kevin as a fox. Kevin is respected, adored and has money, influence and support that the foxes don't have. Random strangers literally crying bc Kevin might never play again and Seth's own mom not even picking up his ashes did his brothers even show up to his funeral??

[saintofsacrilege]

Thinking about Jason reading AFTG rn, who would you say is his favourite character? Is there an evolution between kid Jason, Jaybin, pre-flashpoint Red Hood, Rebirth Red Hood? Just mashing the fandoms together in a blender, puréeing them together if you will

mhm, good soup (puréed fandoms).

my interpretation of jason at any stage in his life relies so heavily on personal hcs and cherry-picking canon that these may be the most atrocious takes you’ve ever heard. but here we go!

kid jason: i think he’d feel the most connected to aaron. everyone’s telling you you’ll never make anything of yourself? that your life was doomed before it began? well, you’re not gonna accept that, are you? you’re gonna find a way to prove all of them wrong. you’re not gonna let anyone kill your dreams just because they’re “unrealistic” for someone “like you.” jason and aaron also both have a very strong dedication to their mother, who struggled with a drug addiction. while i don’t believe jason’s mom was ever abusive, i think jason would feel somewhat vindicated by seeing a representation of someone who still loved their mom despite what her illness drove her to do/made her into.

jaybin: neil. a man with a reputation for taking in strays gives you the offer of a lifetime? you get the chance to leave your past behind, even for a little while, and have something good that gives you joy and fulfillment at a level you never thought you’d get to experience? you’re familiar enough with the cruel way the world works to know that happiness won’t last forever, that it’ll have an expiration date, but you want to make the most of it while you still can? yeah, jaybin would definitely see himself in neil. he’d also get a kick out of neil’s attitude problem and continued state of being a pr nightmare.

(outing myself as a fake fan when i admit that i’m not very familiar with the difference between pre-flashpoint and rebirth red hood, so just know that my “red hood” is a mash-up of random fragments of comic canon and utrh)

red hood: this one’s a little more complicated. i think andrew’s system of making deals to feel like he has any worth to others would really resonate with jason. but given the torture the joker put him through, jason would probably have a ton of respect for neil post-baltimore, too. he’d also probably be a bit jealous of neil getting welcomed back with open arms and getting to stay “neil josten” even after nathaniel wesninski came to light. in contrast, jason couldn’t really stay “jason todd” legally or in the eyes of the people who once cared about him after he was revealed to be red hood. he was… someone else, as far as everyone else was concerned. so jason’s favorite would probably be either andrew or neil with some complicated emotions attached to the latter.

bonus: i hc as jason being raised catholic and having a super complicated relationship with christianity because of that, so—like neil—he probably wouldn’t be renee’s biggest fan. maybe a part of him feels like the subliminal messaging of her character is that if he had “enough faith,” he could’ve come back from the dead/his ultimate low point as a comparatively “better person” instead of a more violent one. which. no question why jason wouldn’t appreciate that sentiment too much. still, i think he’d find himself surprisingly touched by renee giving her knives to andrew and sparring with him.

this is really long whoops

[propheticlyre]

ok its been a day so im ready to put my thoughts down, in no particular order, and definitely an incomplete list. below the cut for length and spoilers

jeremey backstory reveal, I'm :(((

while difficult obviously, i appreciate the way nora has handled homophobia in this book, in a way that balances having a safe place in the trojans with the homophobia of jeremy's family - i dont feel like i can explain it well, it just seems like she captures the homophobia of the time period well, especially in particular kinds of political circles, without it being miserable to read and a hopeless cesspit of homophobia idk

speaking of """time period""" (quotes because treating books set in the early 2000s as historical fiction feels wrong although at this point is accurate) the offhand reference to the politics surrounding the iraq war did untold levels of psychic damage to me

a lot of this comes from that while not a political family like jeremy's, i was growing up at the same time with a family that would have very much politically aligned with them and so it hits close to home

and i'm begging, jeremy needs to figure out in the third book that he deserves the same kind of future he wants for jean and all his friends - one where he is happy with the life he chooses!!!

also let him change his last name since he has rejected wilshire and he wants to let go of knox (i know someone who he could share a last name with too ;) )

after what feels like lots of fandom speculation, i loved that it was just kevin and andrew who came to california for the interview (ok i actually hate that andrew ever has to set foot in california again but narratively i appreciate what it says about his and kevin's relationship that andrew does it), AND the reveal that neil had not told either of them he'd been to see jean - i saw lots of posts/fanfic around neil going back to south carolina and talking to andrew about the grayson stuff and while i understand the interest in exploring that and i dont mean judgment towards that i just love that neil treats that as wholly jean's business and he is not going to be telling his secrets to anyone, including andrew

xavier explaining being trans to jean and jean is just immediately chill about it, in the most predictably jean way possible and its so 🥹🥹

spokane mention jumpscare

happy old gay couple!!!! yes they have to hide it behind the "we're just two bachelors chilling together" but they're gay!! and happy!! and together!! anyway i just don't think there can ever be enough representation for this kind of story and im always happy for stories with queer elders like this!!

in general rhemann's characterization in this book !! i love him your honor. i also love, again after ages of fandom speculation on it, that the one to go to violence for jean is rhemann, but not by breaking the rules to take a red card, but truly in a moment of physical defense of jean but that even STILL nora establishes that this does not make jean feel safe with rhemann, that he can physically stop zane scares him, even if when jean talks with adi he acknowledges he mentally knows rhemann wouldnt hurt him, he still feels scared (i feel like this mirrors neil/wymack's dynamic but its different, but that would be a whole other discussion)

laila and cat. cat and laila. i feel like we got so many insights into them in this book and yet i need MORE. the laila and jeremey family dynamics at play !! cat and jean as biker buddies !! also them at every possible opportunity being like "no jean really, please leave us in the house alone, we have some things to do. together."

the house... their home... im crying for them. while theres obviously the big things, i feel like the mentions of so many of the smaller sentimental things were like stabs in the heart - their photos from their dates, cat's quilts from her grandmother, jeremy's nan's movie collection, jean's first new postcard from kevin, and of course, barkbark :(

trying to rebuild their cozy space, and jean finding a painting in the store, and THAT being what spurs laila and cat into action, and while it's very much in a way of getting things that are "good enough" for now, rather than beloved pieces, i think its so so huge that their new place is something they are so actively building WITH jean

i 100% do not trust those fugly fbi agents though, im still suspicious of the new place

jean's eating disorder issues but him always trusting cat!!! and cat telling him to trust himself!!

speaking of that scene, I'm on my knees begging for pat, ananya, and cody to get together finally!!

jean going to therapy, and verbalizing that he deserves to recover from his trauma, when i tell you i am crying for him

jean bodily checking bryson into laila's car, breaking the windshield, to defend jeremy and laila and laila being "you should have seen him jeremy, it was hot and i dont even like men ;)"

also on the note of unwanted visitors im tired of ravens showing up to harass jean, leave him alone!!!! (insert here the era appropriate "leave britney alone" meme)

jabberwocky moreau !!!!!!

[beemoon17]

My Personal Fox Rankings

I saw @yourleftpinkytoe-blog do this and thought I'd give it a go! These are just my personal rankings and obviously I'd love to talk about why or hear about anyone else's.

Kevin Day (I relate to his mental health struggles and his need for perfection, he's giving gifted kid syndrome, autistic af)

Andrew Minyard (Devoted to his family, enforces his boundaries, relate to his mental health struggles, killing for his brother)

Neil Josten (Most of my love for him is because of his love for other characters, his loyalty and protectiveness over the family he found in the Foxes and his absolute devotion to respecting Andrew's boundaries)

David Wymack ("It's about second chances, Neil. Second, third, fourth, whatever, as long as you get at least one more than what anyone else wanted to give you." I think that covers all my reasoning)

Seth Gordon (We don't get to learn as much about him as the others but Seth hit me a lot harder than I've seen most people feel. He wanted to prove himself, he wanted to be better, he wanted to win. He's the what if. The almost. Every kid who couldn't be saved, Who gave up or was given up on a minute too soon. He was almost there. And then he was gone.)

Aaron Minyard (I have a weak spot for sibling relationships, killing for his brother, the urge to protect your siblings and to stay by your siblings side and at the same time wanting to prove you can be more or different or better than them, not understanding each other completely but knowing you stand and fall together always.)

Matt Boyd (100% projected every urge I've ever had to have a big brother onto him. The way he's always there on the Court to physically protect his teammates, he's big and strong and powerful, but off the Court he is kind and caring and gentle. He loves the Foxes and he has their backs. His relationship with Neil was everything.)

Nicky Hemmick (I loved his blatant and unavoidable queerness, for a character who has canonically been shammed and abused for his sexuality and coming from a world myself where I don't feel safe or brave enough to be unapologetically queer it's so beautiful to read. He took in the twins, he never gave up on them, never walked away. The twins weren't easy, not before the story started and not when we get to arrive in it, but he loves his family and he wants them to have better than he did, and that means something.)

Dan Wilds (Oh Captain my Captain. Dan is an amazing leader and my love for her comes from her devotion to her team. She is tough and she worked her ass off for the role she has, she's more than earned her share of respect. She believes in her team even after years of failing and bullshit.)

Betsy Dobson (The therapist we all dream of having. If Andrew could trust her I can't imagine anyone couldn't with enough time. She is a safe space and a constant, and clearly has patience for days with the twinyards as her clients. The fact that she provides hot chocolate is 100% a huge plus for me.)

Abby Winfield (Always there for the Foxes, whether that's patching them up, giving them a roof to sleep under, or cooking warm meals. She's a safe adult like Bee and Wymack and they are so very important and precious.)

Allison Reynolds (I love Allison, her being this low is NOT Allison hate, I simply did not connect with her as much as other characters, she is still dear to me, all of the Foxes are. She is devoted to the Foxes and found them somewhere safe to run off to and have some fun after shit went down. and even when the worst possible thing happens and she loses the man she loves she comes back ready to fight because she knows it's what he would've wanted.)

Renee Walker (Once again NOT Renee hate, all of those Foxes are dear to me. I had trouble with her "religious angel girl" attitude in a similar way to Neil, I just couldn't trust it. Renee is an amazing force within the Foxes, the bridge before Neil arrived, providing Andrew with an outlet and a friend, protecting the upperclassmen Foxes. I admire her for pulling herself out of darkness, even if I can't connect to the religious aspect, and I admire that she acknowledges and respects her old life, not burying it but not letting it control her future or her present day.

[constelationprize]

any stuart crumbs for us tonight?

I haven't really worked on it lately because I've been trying to focus on the fest fic (and coming up with a million other wips on the side to distract me from the fact that I cannot for the love of me get that fucking opening right). Buuuut here's a snippet from the funeral scene:

I feel like Neil and Stuart's relationship has a lot of potential, though it doesn't really get explored past the basic on this fic (at least not in my plans). I don't think they could ever see eye to eye in any universe that was not drastically different, and there is something to me that just feels right about this limbo they settle on, where Stuart is still protecting Neil from a distance but neither of them really have anything to do with each other, kind of like a mafia guardian angel. They both had one thing in common, and it was Mary, but even then she meant very different things to each of them. Now that she's gone, though, they remain connected by having been two people that loved her – and I think that does impact the fact that they won't let their relantionship evolve past being Mary's brother and Mary's son, as if they are preserving some part of her by refusing to let those versions of each other go, and allowing themselves to get closer as who they are now would shatter that illusion.

Also, I went through the last book and in his appearences after Baltimore, Stuart doesn't call Neil by name (granted, they have only one on-screen conversation), and in Baltimore, he calls him Nathaniel and not Abram – so though I do think Stuart refers to him as Neil in their conversations, in his mind Stuart will always think of him as Nathaniel. Because I think that while he doesn't resent Neil personally for it, Stuart is very aware of whose son he is.

(In a similar way, Stuart thinks of Ichirou as Ichirou even though he refers to him as Lord Moriyama most of the time before they get closer, because I do think fitting that a British man has some bones to pick with the class implications of the Moriyama's hierarchy and no one is stopping him from being blatantly disrespectful inside his mind. There is a pretty good case to be made in canon for the fact that Stuart doesn't really respect Ichirou at all even if he knows to fear him and that's a very fun balance to navigate).

It was also pretty fun to describe Andrew from the perspective of someone who is soooo indifferent to his existence. He's just a little guy to Stuart.

There's probably more I could say but I should really sleep now. So... Bone apple teeth?

[wuzeio]

i keep brainworming over your recent zombie au piece [kicks feet in air] tell me more 🫶 (if you wanna)

OUGGH GHDJFG IM SO GLAD 🫶🫶🫶T___T i think the AU fits AFTG especially really well!! My fav zombie apocalypse media is the Telltale Walking dead games so ... lots of inspiration drawn from that (and ofc Last of us for that good ol "oh they have immunity against the virus" trope") (also train of busan/TWD show for outbreak origin inspo)

How the virus outbreak starts in this AU: honestly have not thought about the specific details but the gist of it is that a deadly mutagen accidentally gets developed in a biotech lab while conducting experiments on animals >someone gets bit > starts to show signs and turns into zombie > more people get bit > everybody has the virus now, turns into a global pandemic

some char background/

Andrew and Aaron would have already been living together before the outbreak, and Nicky only lives likes 10ish minutes away from them. When all hell breaks loose, Nicky's parents get killed by a zombie hoard and he immediately goes to Andrew and Aaron to join up for safety. Andrew realizes that remaining where they are is only going to get them killed, so they drive his car out of the state in hopes to find a safer place (smart!).

I don't think Drew's group encounter Kevin and Neil until a few years later, when the apocalyptic world has become the norm and its all about survival now (maybe around 3-4 years?). The monsters have joined forces with different groups and even joined a few settlements in the past, but they find that they work best alone, just the three of them. Fortunately they have enough connections to make supply trades if its ever needed; Nicky's the interlocutor and peacemaker.

Kevi ... he would've still grown up in the Nest and played Exy in this AU. When the outbreak occurs there, the Ravens are trapped with the infected and it's basically a brutal death for all of them. Kevin and Riko manage to escape (with Riko ruthlessly killing a few teammates-turned-zombies on his way out, no hesitation!) Kevin and Riko have a very close relationship during the first few years of the apocalypse, but its more of Riko putting a leash on his brother and demanding him to do certain tasks. Kevin is strong and has lots of stamina, so he's incredibly reliable in an abundance of duties. Riko is also not above betraying groups they "befriend", and does not hesitate to kill or sell someone out when he thinks its better for their survival. Near the 3rd year mark, tensions between the two brothers begin to rise as Kevin starts to express his discomfort towards Riko's actions. They start to fight more often, and Kevin starts to rebel a little more. In turn, Riko gets increasingly paranoid about their dwindling supply stock/the fact that Kevin might betray him, so he ends up making a trade with a group of nearby raiders: Kevin for 6 months of supplies. Kevin, obviously, is horrified when he realizes this betrayal and deception. On the second night with the raiders, he manages to fight 4 of them off and runs off into the night. He meets Drew's group 3 months later. (btw kevin running off means that riko is now after him, because those raiders were not happy about what happened)

Neil!! He's in his last year of HS (still plays Exy for their team) when Mary convinces him to run away with her from their abusive father. In this AU she also steals a shit load of money from him and they take a plane to Georgia. The zombie outbreak occurs whilst on their run, and they manage to survive together for the first year. They make their way to South Carolina, but Mary gets killed during a crossfire started by bandits and...Neil is left alone now.

(note: I changed somethings regarding Neil/Kevin's relationship. Scratch them having past family connections!) He desperately tries to join up with a few groups, but all of them result with him either being assaulted or robbed from. The one group he finally finds and begins to feel a kinship with, he ends up being betrayed. Guess who the group is!! It's Kevin and Riko! After a near death experience with that, he's jaded, wary, and untrusting towards anyone. He's learned that staying alone gives him the highest rate of survival— that it's not the zombies that are the most dangerous. Those are easy to kill. A few smashes to the head and they're dead. But people, they're capable of doing the most evil, heinous things. (cue : " “It’s not the world that’s cruel. It’s the people in it.") oh also. he finds out hes immune after getting bit in the hand. He freaks out, introspects for a few days, and comes to the conclusion that he's going to kill himself before he turns. But it never happens.

3 years later, he's a seasoned veteran when it comes to surviving on his own. However, from a stroke of bad luck, he ends up getting hit by crossbow arrow in the forest while scavenging. This is how Drew finds him.

uhhh there's a lot more ideas in my head but I'm gonna wrap it up here because this got wayyy too long hehe thank you if you read it all... honestly this ask was very helpful because it helped me work out this AU in detail a lot more >:D

[andrewsleftarmband]

8 and 10 for the opinion asks!

- @constelationprize

Thank you @constelationprize for the ask!!!!

8. Popular opinion that the fandom is wrong about

Oh man I could go a couple different directions with this but the two that I will briefly touch are martyr Neil and misogynist Andrew.

Starting with Neil, I think @joejhang has said it best, but Neil has never been a martyr. The only time he willingly put himself in harms way for another person, was when he went to evermore, and the reason that’s so significant is because of how out of character it is. For his entire life, Neil’s main objective was survival, even at the expense of others. Neil’s life on the run taught him to be concerned only with making it to the next day and the next after that. To be a martyr is to sacrifice your own happiness or safety for the sake of someone else’s. Neil only ever does that with evermore. When he joined the foxes, he chose to stay KNOWING that it put the foxes in danger. That doesn’t mean he wanted them to face trouble because of it, he most certainly did not, but he wasn’t willing to sacrifice the first home and the first family he ever had to keep running from his father. And it’s understandable why he wouldn’t. PSU was the first place he ever had to call home. The foxes were the first people to care about him. And even though he loved them, he wasn’t willing to martyr himself for them. The only person he was willing to do that for was Andrew. Which is fucking beautiful if you ask me.

Moving on to Andrew, the claim that he is a misogynist is one even Nora makes. I’m not usually in the business of telling writers that they’re wrong about their own characters, but I’m making an exception here. Maybe she meant for him to have misogynistic tendencies and then just forgot to write them, idk.

The thing with Andrew is that he hates and distrusts everyone equally. Andrew doesn’t trust women because he’s never met a woman he could trust, until Renee. And while his past is filled with just as many, if not more bad men, I’d argue that when he went to juvie he was able to find other guys he felt comfortable enough exploring his sexuality with. Andrew started working on his relationship with men way before he started working on his relationship with women. The mother he wanted turned a blind eye to the abuse he suffered at the hands of her son. The mother he was supposed to have abused his brother and got him hooked on drugs. Up until Renee, Andrew had never met a woman he could trust. What comes across as misogyny is actually a trauma response and deep deep trust issues. For every man who abused him there was a woman who let it happen. And to top it off, a woman nearly destroyed his brother.

I think he is also deeply distrusting of men, but in a different way. Judging by what Nora said about his time in juvie, and then his relationships with Nicky, wymack, and Roland (I have some Thoughts about fucking Roland but that’s a separate issue), it’s clear that he’s at least found some men that he doesn’t distrust as much as others. It’s different with the women in his life. Again, he dislikes and distrusts everyone equally. You’re not gonna get different treatment from him for being a woman, he’ll pull a knife on anyone.

10. Worst part of fanon

Oh goodness, definitely what I’m going to call Manic Pixie Dream Neil.

I’ve noticed a tendency in the fandom to make Neil this sunshine yellow character to compare to andrews grumpy and black character. It’s especially prevalent in au fics.

Neil is not soft or a sunshine character or even a very happy one. He’s a fucking weirdo. He and Andrew are actually pretty similar at least in regards to their general demeanor. Taking it a step further, Neil is probably kind of scary. He never smiles, and when he does it’s his face splitting into something he doesn’t associate with himself, it’s an involuntary reaction that he can’t control but tries to repress. He doesn’t really laugh much, and he’s abrasive asf. Not to mention he’s tiny but covered in scars and probably looks half feral most of the time.

Neil isn’t even really soft to Andrew. He’s blunt, sometimes to the point of near cruelty, and that’s part of why they work so well together. He can act in more thoughtful or tender ways, and bro is definitely fucking WHIPPED but he’s not a big softie.

Neil is a fucking weirdo. But not in a manic pixie way, more in a borderline psycho way. And by golly do I fucking love him for it.

Thank you again for the tag! Enjoy my run on sentences and vaguely coherent thoughts <3

[graveyardviolence]

Tell me about your aftg ocs!!

THANK YOU‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️

okay okay okay so theres like a dozen of them but ill tell you abt my baby mercer (i may or may not be writing a fic for him)

Mercer Kyrie Reyes | #13, offensive dealer, 20, 5’7”, leo

mercer joins the foxes his sophomore year of college (he transfers) after wymack shows up at the bar he works at and basically forces his hand. this follows the events of tsc, so he & neil are the only sophomores on the team. he has a pretty mild relationship with most of the foxes since he’s not really around them that much off court. moving from bum-fuck nowhere connecticut to south carolina is a bit of a mess.

he majors in drawing (idk)

how he plays on court is usually dependent on how his day has gone. if he’s had a bad say, he won’t be of any use on court

he has a little sister, marcella, who he loves and would do anything to protect. he’s her current legal guardian.

he’s the second oldest, his older brother is 5 years older than him and has gone no-contact with the rest of his family, only really checking in every few months to make sure his siblings are alive. he has one younger brother who’s two years younger than him, and then theres marcella who’s four years younger

he has a sweet tooth that rivals andrews, it’s actually ridiculous bc this man always has candy on him no matter what

HATES spiders & flies (they freak him out)

slushy fiend

he’s vv picky eater & will only eat spicy foods

will drink lemonade no matter the season

he can COOK god hes so-

he enjoys sketching random shit he sees. if his sketchbook isnt on he’ll take a picture of whatever it is that caught his interest- but that’s almost never the case so whenever the foxes see him outside of practice he’s usually drawing

he also writes poetry! nothing serious, but he’ll write what he feels in the moment.

his relationship with wymack & abby is a little shifty. he’s got a lot of trust issues (obv) & parental issues, but abby lets his sister stay with her and keeps her fed, and wymack lets him use the foxes credit card (i forgot what its called) to buy things for her when needed, so it’s as bad as it would be if he were there alone

hes a smartass, of course, and usually gets sent off court for talking shit. he has a habit of taunting other teams. kevin usually falls victim to it during practice. he’s also very flirtatious, with just about everyone, though its usually superficial, he just likes seeing people get worked up

his nails are always chipped with black paint

he’s got his signature leather jacket that he wears no matter the season. it’s got a bunch of different pins and patches sewn into it

he drinks enough energy drinks to have a heart attack, and his hands tend to shake a LOT bc of it

he has chronic migraines! they happen at least once a day (if hes lucky)

very bad insomnia, my mans usually gets like 3 hours of sleep a day if he’s lucky. he tends to nap a LOT

he has tattoos! he wants to open up a tattoo/piercing shop, and he usually practices on himself! for marcella’s 16th birthday he gave her a small sun and moon tattoo on each of her inner forearms