#clone army

[theanglethen]

Hunter: “How’d you sleep?” Omega: “Better than ever.”

[mymblesbuir]

(I assume if they have any dedicated sleepwear it's all GAR-issue like their blacks and uniforms)

[immakissthewalls]

I feel like the clones should be discussed more often and how insane they actually had it.

They were basically all created in a large factory which meant from the second they opened their eyes they found themselves looking into the very same ones. From then on, they are constantly reminded that they are expendable and are alive entirely for the purpose of fighting in a war in which they will probably die on the front lines of.

That is the reason I will forever be happy that despite all of this and being surrounded by people that look exactly like them, they can all tell each other apart and are all unique in their own way.

[thelastd0mino]

sometimes I forget the clones are…clones and I’ll see a picture and say “wow they’re making the same facial expression!! They look so similar!”

YEA YOU DUMB HOE THEY’RE COPIES OF EACH OTHER!!

[groove-on-boogie-down]

So has anyone drawn the comparison between Jango fett—although compensated—being essentially bred so his offspring could be used for a galaxy’s military labor not unlike enslaved ppl being bred so plantations could have more free labor

Or his genetic material being used in perpetuity after his death not unlike Mrs. Henrietta Lacks whose cancer cells were stolen to be studied for their indefinite reproduction ability. Or is that too real for ppl…

[s0ftand0nly]

I have no idea what Shaak ti’s lekku look like from behind and I cba to google it

[artist-kreating-stuff]

Personal headcanon: It goes without saying that the clones would make excellent fathers, or at least father figures. Sure, they weren’t exactly raised by loving parental figures, so they would be a little unsure of how to display their affection. But you know in your soul that they would do anything and everything in their power to make sure their children never go through the same hardships they did.

[jovialbasementmusic]

What do you do with a brainwashed army of cult survivors?

At the end of Heart Part 2, Etheria still has a population of thousands of Horde Prime’s clones. This is going to be, putting it mildly, a Problem for the Etherians. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen what happens to a cult follower when they are faced with conclusive evidence that their entire worldview was false, but you probably have some intuitive idea. Imagine if you said to a young-Earth creationist “Hey, here are multiple overlapping lines of evidence proving beyond reasonable doubt that life on Earth evolved over hundreds of millions of years,” or to a Scientologist, “Check out this evidence that L. Ron Hubbard was a fraudster who started a cult as a money-making racket!” You can probably guess that in each of those cases, the response is unlikely to be, “Goodness, I have been mistaken all my life! Thank you, kind friend, for relieving me of my false beliefs.”

As someone who’s left a cult, let me tell you, the clones are not all gonna react like Hordak or Wrong Hordak.

You might have heard of cognitive dissonance theory, but most people misuse the term, so I’ll quickly explain it. When humans encounter information which contradicts or disproves their deeply held beliefs, they experience psychological discomfort. This feeling sucks, and people will go to great lengths not to experience it. But when those beliefs are central to your identity and your place in the world, letting go of those beliefs also sucks, and people will go to even greater lengths not to do it. So they resolve the cognitive dissonance however they can. They might decide the person who gave them this information is an evil liar and lash out at them. They might find a way to convince themselves the information is in fact compatible with their beliefs after all, and then try not to think too hard about whatever mangled assemblage of the facts they have settled on, in case it falls apart under closer examination. They might modify their beliefs slightly to fit the facts ("Prime always said he would go away for a while before returning in triumph!"), and then maintain that this is what they thought all along.

As an aside, one of the landmark texts on cognitive dissonance theory is When Prophecy Fails, which tracks the actions of a doomsday cult after the world failed to end on their predicted date. Sure enough, the acolytes of this cult did not abandon their beliefs despite this pretty concrete evidence that they had been wrong. Instead, they started recruiting new followers as hard as possible. They tried to get social reinforcement for their beliefs (“This must be true—look how many people believe it!”) to help them cope with the empirical disconfirmation they’d just lived through. So yeah, this theory is highly applicable to cult behaviour. And Prime’s clones are quite definitely a cult.

So it’s fair to say that just because the Hive Mind is down and She-Ra has just kicked Prime’s ass into oblivion, the clones are not all gonna just accept that Prime is gone and his mission is over. Some of them are going to continue fighting, convinced that Prime is not really gone. Some will insist that their connection to the Hive Mind is still intact, and deliver messages as the word of Prime. At least one clone is going to claim to be the reincarnation of Prime himself, and begin recruiting followers. More likely, several clones will attempt this gambit, creating factions with names like The True Followers of Prime and The Glorious Servants of Prime. These factions will go to war with each other in service of their Prime (honourable, redeeming) against the enemy’s Prime (evil, destructive). As time goes on, these factions’ ideas about Prime’s teachings will diverge, providing new opportunities for conflict. If they’re allowed to go on long enough, probably some benign and progressive versions of Prime’s cult will emerge, teaching that Prime in fact existed to bring peace and freedom to the Universe, and that those warlike factions have strayed from the true path of Prime.

All of this gives the people in charge of Etheria a headache. Etheria doesn’t believe in retributive justice, and as brainwashed cult members, the clones have diminished responsibility for war crimes they committed while Prime was alive. So it’s fair to say they can’t kill them. But they also can’t just ship them all off to live unsupervised in a colony somewhere in case they radicalise each other and start another war. Sure, some of them will follow Wrong Hordak into accepting that Prime lied to them, and they will find meaning by travelling the universe, attempting to restore planets Prime destroyed. Some, like Hordak, will give themselves names and begin the agonising process of creating an identity for themselves outside of everything they ever thought was true. But what of the rest of them? They’re essentially adult children, ignorant of everything Prime did not want them to know. They also trigger PTSD flashbacks in a great many citizens of Etheria, who cannot look at them without remembering what they suffered under the Horde.

What do you do with that many brainwashed survivors? What does compassion and restorative justice demand? I don’t know if I’ll get around to writing this as a fic or not, so here’s the setup and you can let your imaginations take it where you like. I’m new to tumblr and to the spop fandom, so if you read this far I’d really appreciate a reblog. And if anyone else has already had similar ideas, I’d really like to read them.

[cienie-isengardu]

Transcription below read more mark

Conspiracy by Morrie Mullins

San Herrera and Nia Reston have a long history of wild theories and incongruous causes. Over the past half-decade, they've continually managed to find ways to keep themselves in the periphery of the public eye. Once or twice a year, something they say or write finds its way into public channels. They've been interviewed by Yara Grugara on multiple occasions and have, in the opinion of many in Cularin, long since worn out their personal apportionment of fame. From their insistence on helping the "primitive" Tarasin to their crusade for the rights of droids -- or, to use their terminology, "synthetic persons" -- they have consistently come down about as far from the mainstream view on many social issues in Cularin as is possible. No one, however, was quite prepared for this document, posted recently to Cularin's holonet, in which the authors called into question the very armies tasked with defending the Republic.

Are Clone Armies Safe?

By San Herrera and Nia Reston

The past three years have seen bloody fighting waged across our galaxy. The armies of the Separatists, made up almost entirely of synthetic people, have clashed repeatedly with Jedi-led clone armies. On worlds uncounted and out among the stars, the armies have blasted, burned, and mutilated one another, their every action under the control of their creators.

In the past, we have attempted to demonstrate that exercising such control over synthetic people was wrong. We continue to maintain that this is the case, though we understand that many do not agree with our conclusions. It would be difficult to reconcile our arguments, for those who "own" synthetic people. You would naturally deny us, to avoid any uncomfortable tension in your own minds at the realization that you are effectively enslaving sentient beings.

The question of the synthetic person is thus one that we have dealt with and will not return to in this paper other than to draw certain parallels to the current state of the galaxy. These parallels all have to do with the so-called "Grand Army of the Republic," constituted primarily of clones of a reputed bounty hunter (if our sources are accurate, and we believe they are). We will argue that the continued use of such an army, while potentially necessary, is also inherently unsafe. Our arguments will touch on three points.

First, the mentality of the "original" off whom the clones were based.

Second, the criticality of free will in determining behavior.

Third, the essential and inevitable imprecision of the cloning process, and its inability to adequately capture or account for all of the variables that must be controlled in order to "program" an army such as this to fight in a consistent, coordinated manner. We have a difficult enough time programming droids. If something were to happen to a clone, if it were to begin to manifest aberrant behavior, it's unlikely that a memory wipe would suffice.

As regards our first point, we have come into possession of information stating that the clones that make up the Grand Army of the Republic (GAotR, for future reference) are, in fact, clones of a single individual. While we have not obtained his name, we understand that he was a bounty hunter -- an individual tasked with hunting down and in some cases killing other living beings. There are those who would argue that this is precisely the type of individual best suited to having a clone army created in his image: ruthless, cold, and willing to take lives.

However, the mentality of the bounty hunter is very different from the mentality of a soldier. Bounty hunters are inherently individualistic. They are constantly in competition with other bounty hunters, trying to find and capture or kill the target before anyone else does. They are ill-suited to cooperation, and are notoriously bad at following orders. For all we know, this particular bounty hunter may have been mentally unstable; he wouldn't be the first in his profession to not be playing with a full sabacc deck.

If a clone army to be led by Jedi were to be created, why not clone someone more suited to serving the galaxy? Why not an army of Mace Windu clones? Why utilize an individual with an unpredictable, dangerous temperament? The choice indicates a severe lack of judgment on the part of whoever commissioned the GAotR, since we now find ourselves defended by several thousand (likely imperfect, due to the nature of the technology) copies of what most of us would consider an individual of questionable moral fiber. The choice also indicates the possibility that the army may have been constructed with some secondary purpose in mind. If you have access to Jedi, why would you avoid using Jedi as the foundation for your army? Perhaps because Jedi are too likely to disregard morally ambiguous directives. Regardless, the choice of foundation for the clone armies is the first factor that leads us to doubt their safety and reliability.

Second, we will draw parallels between the two armies fighting this war, the clones and the synthetic people. Specifically, some would argue that the terminology we have chosen for what most would call "droids" could apply equally well to the clones themselves. We find it hard to disagree with this assessment. Whether an individual is created on an assembly line or grown in a tank, that person is not completely "natural." However, being tied to the Force (as all sentient things are, depending on your point of view) keeps both synthetic people and clones from being "unnatural," leaving us in the awkward position of trying to explain how they fit into the gestalt of the galaxy.

It is our opinion that neither the armies of the Republic nor those of the Separatists "fit" particularly well. They were created to serve, and by design, to minimize their free will. This cannot, however, be accomplished perfectly in either case. When we ask another creature -- carbon-based or not -- to make decisions, that creature must exercise free will. Synthetic people are given tasks that require nonlinear thinking and problem solving capabilities. Clones are asked not only to solve problems, but also to make rapid and precise decisions about how to approach complex tactical situations. There must be free will to make decisions in both cases, and if free will is present, it is always possible for those who are being used -- which we contend is the case for both classes of synthetic people -- to revolt.

Droids can be fitted with restraining bolts. Does such technology exist for inhibiting the behavior of living creatures? If so, we've never heard of it, and we'd be very frightened to learn that the GAotR is actually subject to that type or level of control. If we assume that they are not, then what happens when this army -- fully armed and trained, with the resources of the Republic behind it -- decides that enough is enough, that they are going to exercise their free will and take control of the Republic they have "saved"? This cannot be safe. The Jedi are too few (and growing fewer) to maintain control over this army if things should go bad. The clones are unsafe.

Third, and perhaps most critical, is our insufficient understanding of the cloning process and our inability to precisely "program" clones to do as they are told. While the authors do not know all the details of how the clones were "grown," we are confident that in order to turn them into soldiers, they were subjected to rigorous behavior modification to ensure that when the time came, they would follow orders. However, as has already been noted, we frequently have difficulty programming synthetic people to do exactly what they were built to do. The question of free will again arises, forcing us to consider how thoroughly the obedience of these clones can be guaranteed.

The necessary answer is, their obedience cannot possibly be guaranteed. As long as they have any degree of free will, as long as they are living beings, as long as they are armed, there is always the possibility of revolt. One need only look so far as the various droids that have "gone rogue" over the years to see that no amount of programming can prevent malfunctions. We have a much more thorough understanding of the circuits and gears that make up a droid than we do of the cells that make up a "living" creature, and that understanding translates into greater control. Now, we have the GAotR, vested with all the power of the Republic, given all the weaponry necessary to eradicate our enemies, and we place blind faith in the notion that they will never turn on their creators? This is both naïve and foolish.

We are convinced that the clones that comprise the Grand Army of the Republic are unsafe. They were created from a flawed template, they continue to possess free will, and no amount of behavioral "programming" can possibly make them even as safe or predictable as an R2 unit. Putting our faith in the future of the galaxy on these shoulders, however strong they may be, is a mistake. We must ask ourselves, given these factors: Why were clones chosen? Why not draw on local system militias, pulling them together and organizing them beneath the eyes of the Jedi? Finally, we must ask this question: What is to become of the clones, when the war is done? The Republic has not had a standing army for generations, but what other purpose do these individuals know? There are too many unanswered questions, too many things that hint at an ulterior motive. For all our sakes, we very much hope we are wrong.

We will not reproduce the various comments that followed the posting of this essay to the holonet, in order to not offend our readers' sensibilities.

[mothask]

Behold alpha's skirt is a glider cause he's a heavy wood moth and can't glider for very long without it.

[snagg1et00thz]

clone baddies wya

come get yall juice!! (tears)

[takunwilliams]

General grievous portrait

[savage-kult-of-gorthaur]

THEIR WORD IS LAW IN THE HALLS, PLATFORMS, & STARSHIPS OF THE GALACTIC REPUBLIC (AND LATER IN IMPERIAL CENTER).

PICS INFO: Resolution at 1200x2000 -- Mega spotlight on promotional images of Clone shock troopers, highly skilled clone troopers that formed the Coruscant Guard during the Clone Wars between the Galactic Republic and the Confederacy of Independent Systems.

PIC #2: Another promotional image of a Clone Shock Trooper -- Resolution at 2000x4000.

EXTRA INFO: They were trained as elite shock troopers specifically for deployment on the Republic capital planet Coruscant and to provide security aboard Republic starships.

GENERAL INFORMATION:

ORGANIZATION TYPE: Military police

FOUNDER(S): War Council Advisory Panel, Homeworld Security Command

LEADERS: CC-4477

HEADQUARTERS: Coruscant

AFFILIATION:

Galactic Republic

Homeworld Security Command

Coruscant Guard

Galactic Empire [beginning in 19 BBY]

Sources: www.starwars.com/databank/imperial-clone-shock-troopers, SW Wikia, various, etc...

[marvelstars]

I usually like to talk about star wars in general and I don´t like to demonize any character be it one of my faves or not but tbh some fan takes really make me mad, takes like:

"Ahsoka wasn´t being fair in her judgment of the Order"

I am like "The Jedi Council, Obi-Wan and Plo Koon included" sentenced her to face a military trial that most definitely was going to end in her execution.

Again, a 16 year old whose only support/family/people she knew in her life abandoned her to be executed by the goverment she fought for three years as a child soldier.

Sorry but considering this, any take she has on the Order, the obvious love she still has for Jedi´s ways, people and life but also the criticism is completely valid on her part and she should say it, in fact I believe she was quite calm in her reaction considering all of that.

Same with her warm dedication to Anakin´s memory as her "older brother" you know given he was the ONLY ONE who thought about getting her a lawyer and solve the mystery to keep her from being executed by their own government, he was her master and treated her like actual family and didn´t break his links with her after the Order expelled her on circunstancial evidence or thought she was wrong for leaving after all of that like Obi-Wan did.

There´s Jedi unreasonable hate and there is reasonable, based in the story criticism and this is part of it.

Another fandom take that really gets on my nerves is:

Anakin was a child problem for loving his Mom, his Mom was like a Jedi and understood she had to "let go of him"

I am like: Shmi was a literal slave whose only way to keep Anakin from sharing the same fate as her was to give him up to a bunch of strangers, Shmi didn´t know anything about the Jedi but knew being free was better for Anakin than being a slave.

Anakin loving his mother and missing her isn´t attachment, it´s normal for a 9 year old to miss his mother, he also had a right to be mad with the republic for allowing slavery out of convenience and with the Jedi for supporting the republic on this instance because it wasn´t jedi bussines.

"Anakin was an incompetent leader"

Anakin was one of the best Jedi leaders out there in the clone wars, that´s why He and Obi-Wan got the harder missions dealing with Grievous, who killed a lot of Jedi or Count Dooku who also killed Jedi.

He got the moniker "hero without fear" out of the sheer victories he got for the republic and the many planets he helped free from separatist attacks, he also established training for what would become the first cells of the rebel alliance.

He wasn´t just a competent leader, he was a brilliant general, recognized by his enemies and friends alike.

"The clones are not a slave army"

The Clones were purchased with republic credits by a Jedi Master, that makes both the Republic and the Jedi Order their owners, this is canon in Attack of the Clones and in the Clone wars.

They dont get a salary because they are merchandise, property of the republic and the Jedi Order.

The Jedi Order didn´t know about the purchase but the fact they didn´t say anything post fact about the clones being slaves doesn´t give them a good look as "peace keepers to the galaxy" they were more, in this instance, supporters of the status quo.

And no, nothing of this makes valid Order 66, the Jedi Order didn´t deserve to be anhiliated for all of this but the Jedi Order definitely were a flawed organization made up of people with virtues and flaws who unfortunately supported blindly a corrupt system. The Republic was the mother of the Empire after all.

I feel like sharing some of my problems with fandom takes, rant over :)

[derickbatista31]

Separatists Nightmare

fan art of my version of nose art separatists nightmare from clone wars

[aspic31]

Trying out yet another rendering style