#cw: proship

[the-fabled-void]

I keep getting jumpscared by proshitters and I hate it.

I was looking up afterdeath bc I love them, I found a comic of Geno and Reaper with Goth. The concept seemed platonic/familial, it wasn't sexual or romantic in any way, I thought it was okay...

I WAS SO CLOSE TO REBLOGGING IT. Ii started to just tap on the original post's tags and everything was fine until I came across the incestuous tags. I have incest tags blocked, I didn't think I'd have to worry about the incest ships themselves!

Anyway, here's a list of tags you can block if you wanna avoid that shit

#deathcest #afterdeathcest #genogoth #reapergoth

[sunandmoonseisai]

Fuck it. Old art repost. Shameless kissing.

[lumiphobia]

(Pt2 ? I guess?) There's, of course, more niche issues within these realms that apply to selfshipping: like if you're allowed to age a character up, what types of fiction you're allowed to have f/os from, are you allowed to selfship with characters who are canonically ageless but maybe act in ways that some will think is 'child coded' (that phrase has a lot of racism to unpack but thats not what Im here for rn) or selfshipping with characters who's canonical orientations you fall outside of.

All of these don't always have a neat answer, much like the entire argument.

For example, if you watched teen titans when you were young and had a crush on one of the characters, are you allowed to make an aged down self insert for the show now?

Are you allowed to age them up to their comic book ages? Does it mean something about you that you saw a teenaged fictional character and wanted to smooch them still as an adult? Does it mean something different if you just watched the show for the first time yesterday?

Or if you like a character from something that has been declared 'irredeemable media' are you now a bad person for having a crush on that character? Are you a better or worse person if you make fanart of your selfship and dont post it on your blog vs do?

Or if you identify as transmasculine and a butch lesbian at the same time, would it be wrong to selfship with Kanaya? She's also a lesbian! but does your gender identity mean that you shouldn't be thinking about her like that?

Spinel from Steven universe doesn't have a canon age, but she can act very 'childish' at times. Would it be okay to selfship with her? What about peridot? She's autistic, so does that make a difference on what is and isn't considered acceptable 'childish' behavior?

Anyway there's a whole lot of nuance to these types of questions. You should do your own researching and think about your answers. I don't want to make a decision for you, but I do want to give you some things to think about. ~H

This one is insanely indepth and i appreciate the examples with it and thank you for taking the time to type this out for me.

Thank you so much for this!

[sunandmoonseisai]

I really like how this doodle turned out.

[sunandmoonseisai]

Idk. I was gonna draw something cute and normal then this happened. I'm not sorry tho.

[lumiphobia]

I'm gonna try to put these both in the most neutral lights that I can so you have a basis of info to work off of for your own digging.

Generally speaking, proshippers are of the "ship and let ship" mentality of old fandom. They believe, in a fictional medium, everything is fair game, upto and including "dark" content. Most advocate for tagging works and curating your own online experience with blocking or blacklisting tags. They also often have to clarify that just because someone may enjoy something in fiction, doesn't mean they would want for it to happen in real life.

Again generally, Antishippers have a hardline stance against "dark" fiction because of the ways that said fiction can be used. Most come from a place of 'since fiction can normalize behavior, showing negative behaviors in a positive light has real world effects on the people that consume said fiction'. IE fiction can be used to sway a person's opinion, sometimes for the worse. Because of this, dark fiction shouldn't exist because it normalizes negative behaviors and relationships.

Often times what is considered "dark fiction" falls into a few main categories: Underage/age gap, sexual violence, and -cest ships.

Broadly speaking, these are two idea that conflict due to a view on 'censorship vs moral accountability of fiction' which is an argument almost as old as fiction.

There is a part 2

[lumiphobia]

No prob bob! ✌️

Though I do want to correct that other anon, real quick if you dont mind? You dont gotta post this one, but misinfo bothers the crap outta me and ill think abt it forever if i leave it alone.

Proship doesn't stand for 'problematic ship'.

It was actually a label that only came about because of the self identified 'antishipers'. Originally, antiship was a label people took on for themselves because they were against 'ship and let ship' but because 'anti- ship and let ship' was kinda long, it eventually turned into 'antiship'.

'Proship' as a term only started showing up after 'antiship' as a reaction to it. Once again 'ship and let ship' was too long a phrase, so what was the quickest way to let someone know you were against 'antiship' beliefs?

Well, first 'anti-anti' became a thing! Then because it was kind of confusing to say 'anti-anti' people began to say 'proship' as the opposite of antiship. ~H

Posting this so more people can see ♡

[kings-scholar]

i usually avoid directly being involved in discourse (as in, directly writing my own takes publicly — i often just reblog/RT other people’s posts) because it’s very stressful and nerve-wracking for me, but nah i think i need to make a stand right now. i hate art tracers and i especially hate proshippers; bonus if they try to victimize themselves.

if you’re a proshipper or someone who’s neutral on the proship topic, please unfollow/block me :) and btw, you don’t have to be involved in discourse to be anti-proship. it’s really not that hard to not romanticize/fetishize immoral acts even in fiction (and yes, i’m those two words specifically). i don’t fuck with any of that.

[lumiphobia]

Imma add these definitions too btw hope that’s ok, because unfortunately with any term outside the dictionary there usually are multiple definition of one-word regardless of the one you use (this happens with non fandom words too tho lol, like fixed)

Other definitions for proship 

simply means anti-harassment, especially over fiction things

Supporter of freedom of fiction, doesn’t necessarily have to enjoy those things

Don’t like don’t read, dead dove; do not eat

Ship and let ship

(Some of these are combined and added to make other definitions too)

The definition the other anon gave was one definition (I think that one was made by antis actually but reclaimed by some pros) but by no mean the only def in use

Comship btw isn’t 100% interchangeable with proship, comship manly means you do enjoy problematic things in fiction, but some of Precious definitions for pros say you don’t have to enjoy yourself to Support fiction freedom, The new term was (I think) made in hope to help the people who are pro because they support fiction freedom rather than like the problematic stuff, be differentiated from the people who do like that stuff 

Some do have problematic selfships, I do myself, but it really depends one what your comfortable with in fiction or in your selfships. If something makes you uncomfortable in your selfship, but you still want to be with that f/o you should be allowed to change it. Personality I think it’s bluntly unfair to say who can and can’t selfship or how they chooses to do so. If you your aware enough to know that your relationship would be problematic outside of your selfship you responsible enough to consume it healthily.

Hope this helps some! 

This is very helpful! I will be adding this to the asks ♡

Thank you for the help ♡

[lumiphobia]

hi! i saw someone telling you that proship is short for "problematic ship" and i would like to correct it. the "pro" is because some people were tagging "problematic" shipps/dynamics like noncon, etc with "anti-*name*", since some people didn't saw problem at enjoying these kind of fictional content the "proship" label was created — being a proshipper doesn't mean you have to enjoy incest or age gap, it means you ship and enjoy anything you want since it's fictional and you let other people do the same. proshippers doesn't support the idea of harassing people over their interests and ship preferences, even if it's self shipping! you can call yourself a proshipper and only enjoy vanilla stuff or have preference with self shipping over fictional ship involving two or more existing characters.

Ooh; this makes sense but if this was what "proshipping" meant why are so many people like "proshippers dni" and I see it all over the place. On blogs, discord servers and more;;

I feel like if "proshipper" meant that you liked all that is listed would be problematic;;