#hijiri=aleph

[nozomisumino]

Aleph from Shin Megami Tensei II is essentially Jesus Christ

[stop-spreading-this-poll]

Round 1 Poll 31: Identity

Shin Megami Tensei submission:

Hijiri from Nocturne is a reincarnation of Aleph from II.

Sailor Moon submission:

Sailor Cosmos is not definitely a chronological future version of Usagi Tsukino. Crystal might go that direction but so far we don't have canon confirmation.

[eirikrjs]

Hey, it’s SMT Fan Myth NUMERO UNO, in a fun collectible format!

This is Tumblr so I can be more honest: these are intended for Twitter and I don’t think my followers here need them necessarily, but I’ll post them anyway.

It was always the plan to post these daily, even before the Daily Demons were a thing. But since projects like this always take longer to finish than you think, I’ll post them twice daily until they’re all posted (aside from the two article-posting days). Conveniently, they’ll finish the day before SMT5′s release. Funny, that.

[mediseller]

some smt dlc costume predictions for the upcoming dancing games!

i guess smt2 hero ann was a mistake. and if its true..i really hope to see Haru in Tae Asakura’s outfit from either versions bc i already like both of them please xdd!!!

[cake-apostate]

I personally think that all the protags and their friends do gift exchanges :] Demifiend gets everyone a Magatama which they all vehemently refuse to eat, Kazuya and Raidou get people regular Tokyo items because they’re... surprisingly rare, Devil Survivor Protag makes everyone personal mixtapes, etc

Happy Holidays!

Oooh, nice! I can see that.

I do see the cast of SMT in certain ways, especially since I write fanfic for them, so some of my choices might seem a bit weird outside of my head. I'm assuming that interdimensional travel is a thing. Also, on top of giving to friends, there's also a Secret Santa designed to give for people you don't know.

Kazuya gets people practical things, and I see him as someone who's good at cooking. He gives out new pots and pans, new knives, a new spatula.

Aoi would think carefully about what everyone would want before giving it. But she'd default to a big box of holiday treats. Including alcohol. She does not care if the recipient is underage. Either that, or she'd hand out training equipment, since I headcanon her as someone who loves sparring.

Aleph gets everyone guns. I think of him during the game as having difficulties grasping social conventions and niceties, since he only experienced one year of life (yes, he's two years old, but he spent the first year as a baby). When given the advice, "Give something that you would want," he straight up buys the guns he wants.

Hiroko winds up getting Aleph and Daleth stuffed toys, which they treasure. And since she's already at the store, she gets a stuffed animal for the Secret Santa.

Daleth brings out potions the fairies taught him to make.

Naoki is someone I think of as growing up poor. He'd discreetly measure someone and get them a nice warm jacket.

Hijiri gets copies of relatively obscure mythologies, which always turns out extremely useful in SMT.

Raidou, at Naoki's suggestion, gets a lot of stuff that's cheap and plentiful in his time, but will become valuable handmade antiques or specialty snacks in their time.

Flynn gets potted plants for everyone. He does not always get how difficult it is to take care of some of these plants, and he also gives plants that you wouldn't usually think of as a gift, such as rice plants in wet buckets.

Isabeau matches people to manga. Jonathan matches people to books. I have no idea what Walter would do.

Nanashi gives blankets and pillows, and they're super comfortable. Both Bonds and Anarchy Nanashi do this, but Anarchy!Nanashi enchants them to help people sleep better.

Asahi learns to brew her own liquor and beer, and gives that out as gifts. If anyone is concerned that she is under the legal drinking age, they don't show it.

Hallelujah winds up with a lot of money and connections thanks to his new job as a Yakuza boss, but he's trying to remain frugal. Part of it is that he's not inclined to luxury, but the other is that it really helps his image if he's not extravagant like Tayama was. So he'd get something that's nice, but not too nice, like the cheaper accessories at the Ginza Special Shop.

In the Anarchy universe where Hallelujah is the Goddess, he winds up blessing people for good health. Since I've got Dealing with Dragons on the brain, he ensures that nobody will ever have problems with their teeth.

Nozomi gives potted plants like Flynn, but she's a bit more aware of what you can and can't grow. So they're enchanted to be a bit hardier, and she writes down care instructions.

Toki gives almost everyone better weapons. Since you can't get better than Gungnir, she'd give Gaston a book on lance techniques. And since Hallelujah doesn't use weapons, she might give a book on meditation to improve his magic. She gives machetes to people she doesn't know.

Gaston gives jewelry, since that's what Luxurors give each other.

Navarre is exempt because he doesn't have any money, but he's good at giving suggestions to Gaston.

Danu makes things fertile. If they're farmers, their harvests are rich. If they keep animals, they give birth to more babies than usual. And if nothing applies, she gives good health.

Dagda firmly does not celebrate Christmas, but does participate in the Secret Santa gift exchange. It's a neverending thermos of porridge.

Dagda does, however, give Nanashi a gift: a 'get out of death free' card, stylized as a Monopoly card with Nanashi's name on it. He clarifies that the card itself is just a joke; the real gift is a promise to bring him back to life, and it doesn't matter if he loses the card. If Nanashi dies of something like illness or starvation, he'll cure or feed him so he doesn't die right away. And if he manages to die of old age, he'll give him time enough to say his goodbyes before dying for real (and/or let him scare people at his funeral).

Blasted Akira, he doesn't have a lot to give right now. He just gives out IOUs for stuff later, which includes, "Any one thing you want from the treasury."

Infernal Akira scavenges through trash for a living, and I'm thinking that he's not just good at repairing things, but making new things. Most of the usable parts would be used to improve his city, so he'd turn the scraps into a found artwork piece. At the same time, I can see him as someone who gifts very generously out of necessity; he needs the other Demonoids to like him or they'll overthrow him. He might get someone the newest video game console; probably gives Blasted Akira money so he can buy it for him. Big scary demon man in Tokyo would cause problems.

The Embryon generally has trouble with the prompt. Serph winds up giving the gift of friendship, and gives shooting lessons because that's what friends do. Heat gives a fully butchered dead demon, accompanied by a bottle of their blood; this poses problems to people who just think it's ordinary meat. Sera only has a vague idea of Christmas from holiday movies, so she gives out stereotypical gifts like a drum set, a working train set, and stuffed toys. Argilla tries baking a pie but it doesn't turn out well because she's learning how to cook solely from a cookbook. Gale thinks everyone likes math and gives a book on proofs he finds interesting. Cielo gives a mixtape.

I headcanon Roland as Jewish; it started with 'Blitz is a real surname and it fits him' and then turned into 'I knew a classmate with that name who was Jewish' and then into 'what the hell, Roland's Jewish now.' So he doesn't celebrate Christmas even if he has a better idea of what it is. He thinks about everything he missed when he was stuck underground, and decides on boxes of chocolates.

The Nahobino at this point would be God, so he might give out what looks like those coupons children give their parents (like, "clean my room without arguing"), but actually contain stuff like, "Use of a room where time stands still (yes there is internet access because magic)," "Instant transportation to any given location in the universe, round trip, safety guaranteed," and "Change the weather to anything you want, within reason." He also specifies that while they can be used on another's behalf, only the user can activate it; this is so that they get used up within the receiver's lifetime.

Maybe someone tries to argue that Aogami should join in. He winds up cleaning the air and oceans around Japan as his gift, saying that it's a gift to humanity, and they are humans. The receiver is too polite to fault his logic, and the Nahobino winds up discreetly giving them the same coupon gift as above, on the basis that he and Aogami are technically the same person.

[larrue]

It’s been a while since I made this video, I still don’t understand why people think Aleph = Hijiri when there’s no evidence for it, just evidence disproving it

[artemis-maia]

If you have the time can i ask you how accurate do you think the Aleph-is-Hijiri theory is?, if you do think Hijiri is Aleph, then do you think he is a specifc Aleph?(like do you think his punishment is something specific to him being Neutral Aleph?, or do you think this will happen to him regardless of route? or do you think he is one that failed to defeat the avatar of the great will?)

I think that the hints that Hijiri continues Aleph‘s character are what the lady in black says (why should we care about his punishment if he weren‘t tied to Aleph it would seem random otherwise), his design (why the resemblance if his existence isn‘t related to Aleph, they even both wear purple headwear), the Jesus references.

While Aleph chose to fight against YHVH in each route like a Gnostic interpretation of Jesus he isn‘t specifically cursed in the Law route. Thus Chaos or Neutral seems more likely.

I always thought though that unlike SMTI’s canon Neutral ending which is confirmed in SMTII it isn‘t made clear which ending Aleph chose - he goes after YHVH in every route and is seen as a Messianic figure in each of them. I think that this is his destiny no matter what he chooses.

My interpretation of Hijiri is that he is supposed to be the equivalent of the statue of SMTI Hero in SMTII. To make a nod to the previous protagonist.

[sillyfudgemonkeys]

Maruki’s gonna end up being evil isn’t he?

Could be, or they could actually subvert our expectations for once and have him be good. Or what could be interesting, is that his role differs depending on the choices you make with him (which means he can either be good or bad), but that’s even less likely. 

Ngl, I like the idea of him having committed a sin and is repenting. Apparently the apple can be associated with sin, esp if it’s held by Adam. But if Christ holds it apparently it’s a symbol of redemption or something (could just mean that he’s trying to redeem adults to the kids, which they kinda need). 

Tbh his hair/design reminds me of Minato’s, coupled with the Christ reading....I dunno maybe he’ll be our very own P5 version SMT3 Hijiri (aka Totally Aleph). I also wouldn’t be surprised if he’s Adam either. 8U

Or it could all just be a joke on the English saying “An apple a day keeps the doctor away” which I hope makes it into the game tbh 8U

[eyepatchdate]

is....hijiri....aleph?

[layzner]

ok so if hijiri is alephs reincarnation..... would demi be nakajimas reincarnation and chiaki yumiko?

[eirikrjs]

Recent SMT videos I‘ve liked

Would you believe me if I told you people are creating worthwhile SMT content in video format? On Youtube? That have good qualities and effort put into research? Unbelievable, I know, but it’s amazing. Here’s a few I recommend:

First up, Larrue (aka didyaknowtensei) looks at my old adversary “Aleph = Hijiri” and the lack of evidence for it, touching on angles I hadn’t considered.

Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/Larrue

Next up we have Marsh, already known for surveys of older MT titles; this Soul Hackers video is merely the latest. Marsh’s narration has a good cadence and timbre to it, making the videos a relaxing watch.

Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/MarshSMT/

Honestly, you may have already heard of Larrue and Marsh and that’s okay. However, here we have relative newcomer Kid Capes and a well-researched look at the SMT4 angels that’s fully titled “SMTheology - Be Not Afraid (On The Theological Accuracy of the Shin Megami Tensei IV Archangels).” You probably already know my opinion on those angels so the fact that I’m recommending this likely reveals where it goes. It’s just nice to have the facts in video format.

Channel: Kid Capes

[eirikrjs]

yo I'm the person who's post you linked. while I'm incredibly embarrassed of my old posts online (not least because of the context of that post being dumb vs debates stuff which is not a respectable hobby), I can't help but feel you're being kind of unfair in randomly linking a post made over five years ago to dunk on it. while I wouldn't even stand by said post at this point (most of the points i make are *awful*) 1/3

it strikes me as kind of ridiculous to call a post like that "attractive coddling of misinformation" because it comes to a different conclusion to you about the identity of a videogame character, based on the interpretation of evidence from video games. like i said in that post, i didn't come to the conclusion at that time because some guy in a gamefaqs guide said so, i came to that conclusion because it made sense to me at the time based on the evidence i had available to me 2/3

I only bring this up because I had someone dm me about it out of the blue which was kind of a shock, don't mean for this to come across as a rant or trying to start something, hope life's treating you well!

!!! Honestly, this is amazing. Thanks for writing in.

So, about me. If I have any SMT specialties, they would be threefold: 1. anything demon & mythological, 2. localization choices and errors, 3. debunking fan theories. At the intersection of all three is research; because bad sourcing often infects the demons and the mainline stories themselves, I crusade to correctly inform to the best of my abilities. Similarly, a common flaw in most (Western) SMT fan theories is a lack of consideration for Japanese language and cultural context. Like, Hijiri’s name in Japanese is 聖, usually translated as “saint,” which is what it can literally mean. But a hijiri is also a type of nomadic, ascetic mountain monk, a description that describes Hijiri’s Amala adventures more organically than the “saint” interpretation (which, thinking about it... doesn’t describe how even SMT2 interprets Aleph, but I digress), if it even has any intended meaning at all.

So for me, it’s all about avoiding misinformation. It saddens me that it seems like people will just accept popular theories without thinking critically about them, and thus they perpetuate and become mimetic “facts,” kinda like Persona 2′s rumors. Hijiri=Aleph is one of my favorites to disprove just because it’s so popular yet lacks real evidence. It’s similar to people who believe that the SMT4 archangels represent “eldritch” biblical angels despite 1. the designer, Keita Amemiya, stated he used no such influences, and 2. the angels in Daniel and Revelation usually cited as the influence look nothing like the wrought-iron masses seen in SMT4. However, these theories and interpretations, though they may be built on sand, provide easy answers for nagging questions and inconsistencies; it could be called “comfort knowledge,” because even if it’s not factual, it may still feel right from an individual’s standpoint. Hence my “coddling” statement! It can be quite difficult to change someone’s mind on something when they’ve spent a hundred hours arguing for it.

You say you came that conclusion about Hijiri=Aleph yourself--fair! But we know that Ian Kelley, whether he was the actual creator of it or not, presented the theory in at least 2004, in his incredibly popular Nocturne FAQ, no less. I used it for my first Nocturne play in 2005! I can also personally attest that any Japanese mention of the theory is modern and influenced by the non-Japanese fans. All signs point to the ultimate dissemination and popularization of the theory stemming from Ian Kelley, as most of the hallmarks and “evidence” you still see today are the same as what he wrote in ~2004.

Anyway, that’s my side of the story. I honestly wasn’t singling you out or anything. What actually happened is that I was searching for Kelley’s own quotes rejecting the theory and found them in that thread. I thought your comment was genuine yet also the quintessence of what motivates me to research the veracity of aspects of the SMT series and its discourse. Plus, it was right there in my face, a good example of theory discussion, and also on the open internet where anyone with the right search terms can see it!

I’ve put tens of thousands of my own words out there and people have lost their minds and reason over them, wished I were dead, and, possibly the worst of all, misinterpreted them (I suspect because they don’t actually read the entire thing). I’m really happy to see that you’ve left some of the specifics of yours behind and changed not just for the better but also hope you have a more personally rewarding engagement with the series--even if that includes leaving it behind!

[eirikrjs]

isn't the final boss of raidou 1 a kuzunoha who was a temple knight of tokyo millennium? meaning the kuzunoha line does exist in smt2. obviously it's a retcon in the sense that the kuzunoha clan hadn't been conceptualized when smt2 was originally written but that's what happens when you have a long running series like megaten

You are correct! Kuzunohas technically exist in that universe. It's thanks to a game released 12 years after SMT2, but it's not like SMT is the only franchise that does this, right? We recently learned in Star Wars that Obi-Wan Kenobi needed to save a kidnapped Leia 9 years before her A New Hope distress message (45 years between them in terms of media releases). Star Wars/Obi-Wan/Leia didn't technically need this extra bit of fleshing out. It happened only because it could.

Really, what I mean here is that our contemporary general pop culture discourse is more concerned with power levels and tenuous connections between multiverses than what makes stories work and characters compelling. I'm here to push back against that. I would rather ask people, "the connection is there, but is it actually meaningful?" See also: the Hijiri/Aleph theory.

[eirikrjs]

I am kind of confused regarding your thoughts on the MegaTen multiverse, it seems like you have been in opposition to it for a while, but then I read Dissecting Dagda and noticed the Loa Nocturne "demon souls don't change" thing, but if there isn't anything connecting these games, does it matter if they adhere to that or not?

Damn, this line got that HD upgrade.

But it's true, I have always disliked the multiverse stuff for various reasons like the lack of evidence for it (talking about for reaching connections like SJ -> SMT4 here, not the actual connections like SMT1 -> SMT2), the adjacent theories (Hijiri is Aleph), that it would get a disproportionate amount of attention compared to the games' actual content ("missing the forest for the trees"), and that these connections never provide additional depth or meaning to the games' narratives, just lines on a graph.

This all dates back, at least in writing, to 2015. So really, Loa's line connects to the latter half of that ask (and has nothing to do with the multiverse) in that the common definition of a demon's soul or essence is some level of self-awareness and knowledge of its own mythic history, regardless of a game's demon metaphysics du jour. (Of course, this very much does not apply to SMT5 but that's neither here nor there.)

The only "timeline" that matters is where in a demon's own history the depiction is meant to be. Example then and now: Baldur, who is chained, which means he must have already died. That seems to be the case in Devil Survivor since it plays up that "emerging from the underworld" animation. Then you beat him back down with more mistletoe, poor guy.

In sum, it's like SMT games' narrative construction: demons are static but constant, while the humans evolve and shape the story but are retired when their story ends.

[eirikrjs]

Whilst this may not exactly be a direct source, I believe it is where yubiyubis (sorry if I got the name wrong) may have first heard of that theory about YHVH:

https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Talk:YHVH

Under section 'If YHVH isn't the real problem, what is?'

I did look for that interview before, but regretfully I never found it. Would be awesome if someone did.

Please have a nice day

Damn, nice catch.

Kazuma Kaneko has gone on record saying that God (or YHVH) is not the source of all evil. In fact, I've heard that it's implied that YHVH's evil-doings are a symptom of something wrong with the bigger picture. But what could that be? Is it possible that part of Man's conception of God is responsible that part of God's character, and in turn responsible for the evil acts? Or is it something else entirely? 20:15, November 3, 2011 

And 10 years old. The interview in question is on Megatengaku. It’s the Q&A session from the Doublejump Nocturne guide and the particular question, about “why is the Judeo-Christian God the prominent villain in the series,” is the second to last. Here’s Kaneko’s answer:

This is a delicate question, but as mentioned in the last question there are many mysterious common motifs, like the flood legend, in mythology, so I like to investigate mythology from all around the world. For instance, the aforementioned flood legend, the creation process at the beginning of the universe, a hero going on a journey to overcome trials, and sights at the end of the world, etc etc.

 And when I thought about which mythology served as the basis, I concluded that it was the Old Testament. Which means YHWH, the god of the Old Testament, is the basis for all the gods around the world, from a folklorist’s standpoint. Now, I would like you to know that in Megaten, YHWH is not portrayed as the embodiment of evil.

I cut some out but Kaneko begins by talking about comparative mythology only to introduce the “YHVH is the basis for all gods” puzzler that we’ve found has certain corollaries to JJCAT (see Hachiman) and his other comments about Mesopotamian religions. But that’s veering off-topic.

So after not really answering the person’s question, Kaneko abruptly ends with the infamous statement that YHVH is not the embodiment of evil. And... there’s nothing more to it. From Kaneko’s perspective, YHVH is just who he is, the embodiment of Law. That YHVH needs to slaughter all of humanity to get his way may seem extreme, but that exact thing happens in the Bible. You know, the Flood and, eventually, Armageddon.

But on the wiki talk page, notice that Kaneko’s actual “YHVH is not the embodiment of evil” quote has been telephone’d to “YHVH is not the source of all evil.” Thus the onus is on finding a source of evil in the series (of which there isn’t one). And thus immediately after, there’s speculation of “something wrong with the bigger picture” that came from another, currently unknown, source. And this is where I’ll speculate: the idea that YHVH could act so mercilessly and cruel is difficult to reconcile for people living in predominantly Christian countries, where the “loving” God is the cultural standard. Example: the Giant Bomb YHVH page that’s mostly my work from a decade ago, including the deck at the top EXCEPT where someone else added to it “an evil version” and “whose true name is YHWH” (lol, what the fuck) which, as I’ve explained and will continue to explain, misses the point:

Thus, something has to be “wrong” about how this JAPANESE game portrays him (even if the largely Old Testament/Hebrew Bible version of Yahweh they use is somewhat obvious). And I do think that low-key racism has something to do with it. “How can ‘they' understand 'our’ religion?” says someone who doesn’t understand Japanese religion or Buddhism and has never set foot in the country. Alternatively, there’s the more common “why is God always the villain in Japanese RPGs, hur hur hur” line. 

But it’s very easy to understand why Japan doesn’t have the most positive views of Western monotheism, which can be traced to the Portuguese Jesuits who arrived on the Japanese islands in the 16th century. They had some limited success but, uh, let’s say things didn’t end well. So there’s the historical angle plus the fact that monotheism is simply antithetical to Japanese culture; (simplified) the Japanese worldview depends on spirits populating everything which informs everything from the veneration of nature to cultural festivals to views of death. Modern Japanese can be fascinated by the monotheistic religions but few actually adopt one as their own.

And think of how silly Christianity would sound to someone unfamiliar with it: the only God in existence had to manifest himself as his Son who had to be killed so that people could avoid eternal suffering before God himself in the end times brutally tortures and destroys all those who don’t accept his form as the Son. Now think about that but there’s white guys brandishing guns at you. Thankfully, Japan managed to avoid colonization.

Anyway, one problem I see in the western fanbase that leads to these types of theories is not fully understanding that most of SMT’s content is adopted from elsewhere (mythologies). Like it’s obviously commonly understood where the angels and YHVH are from but inversely most other demons can be unfamiliar and perceived as general RPG monsters (or caused if the writing is bad, like in Apocalypse), and existing religious explanations for, say, YHVH’s behavior are eschewed in favor of original theories. The game script becomes the only text that is studied or scoured for information and that’s how we get corrupted YHVH and stuff like Hijiri-Aleph. This is when “multiverse” thinking can become distracting and miss the forest for the trees.

Speaking of YHVH, there’s text of his cut from SMT2 that I think offers some pertinent advice in this situation:

Wow, uncanny, huh? But I agree that the official word is the most reliable source of information for SMT that we have. We’ll never know more than the actual creators; like, I would have never known JJCAT was relevant without Kaneko and the others talking about it. And even if Atlus recommends bad books, those books genuinely explain what happens in the games. Speculation is fun, but I think both knowing about and having access to these interviews & more could nip a lot of the wilder theories in the bud.

[eirikrjs]

They'd been referencing TDE Demi-Fiend since before 4. Demi-Fiend even says "All Bends to My Will" when fought in DDS, Satan talks about someone defying god in the vaguest way possible, and Imagine used Chaos King. Since the Demi-Fiend that believes his power bends all to his will is he who becomes the King of Chaos. If anything, IVA is weird because Demi-Fiend is still portrayed as human at his core despite going TDE.

The Demi-fiend’s quote from DDS probably does refer to TDE because DDS1 came out only months after Maniacs (and I’m fairly certain I touched on this DDS appearance in something before--ah, it would have been in the JJCAT article, but I overlooked it. Definitely the case, though). But these are honestly pretty weak references and while this was sent in response to the reconfigured Hijiri article (I assume), I’m not exactly sure what you’re addressing. Satan’s DDS2 scenario follows SMT2 (with Seth) and probably refers to Aleph. Imagine can probably be rejected outright because Demi-fiend’s King of Chaos event is immediately preceded by this scenario:

Sporting a new model, the Demi-fiend appeared as an event boss for Shin Megami Tensei IMAGINE's fifth anniversary as one of Lucifer's "Great Generals" alongside Beelzebub, Michael, Jeanne D'Arc, Shiva and Vishnu.

Saint Joan of Arc, general of THE DEVIL. Yeah, sure. Wait. Shiva, Vishnu, and Michael too? Cool battle maybe, but with no regard to thematic consistency.

4A remains the only time the Demi-fiend is given a new story scenario, as silly as it is. All prime ministers will die--even though they’re all already dead, anyway. Or maybe...

Maybe I got it all wrong and 4A was communicating that Shinzo Abe will be the Nocturne remake New Girl! Dear lord!