#i see so much of this discourse and like

[infiniteetcetera]

I lose ten years off my life every time I see someone compare Tamlin and Chaol. Like one is a twenty year old guy who made some mistakes, said some rude things, but then risked everything including his life and his entire belief system to make that right and do better for his people and his kingdom. The other is a FIVE HUNDRED year old all powerful being who emotionally and physically abused his NINETEEN year old girlfriend and then completely abandoned all responsibilities to be sad about it. They are NOT the same😭

[watchingwisteria]

listen there really was just something about how in the book, snow’s 3-page descent from hesitant lover boy to deluded mfer happens entirely in his mind. lucy gray gives him no indication whatsoever that she suspects him, that she’s going to leave or betray him. he’s just sitting quietly in the cabin waiting for her to return when that seed of calculated suspicion, which he has needed to survive the capitol, takes a hold of him and chokes the life out of any goodness left inside him. it really drives home your terror as a reader that “oh my god did he kill her? did she escape? what happened to her? why would he even think that?” in a way that when the movie had to adjust for visualization it lost some of that holy shit this guy has lost it emphasis.

[abrillustrated]

thinking about mizu from blue eye samurai. thinking. thinking so much. thinking about how mizu operates outside of gender. like we joke about her gender being revenge but straight up? it literally is. like she grew up as a boy and is most comfortable being a man, but behind that is the feeling of betraying himself because he isn't being honest about who he is and he lives in fear of being discovered. and when he lived as a woman, she found joy there as well. she fell in love, and though she wasn't good at it, she liked being a wife and enjoying a simple life. but in that life too, she isn't being honest about who she is. and when she reveals her true self, it's not a woman, she's a demon, a weapon. she's to masculine to be a woman, and too feminine to be a man. ultimately, mizu is most comfortable when they are being a murder machine. that's when they feel they are being the most true to themself. like a sword, they are neither man nor woman, but a blend of both, which makes them stronger.

[lesbianjackies]

hold my hand and say it with me: jackie taylor is not a femme

[revvethasmythh]

You know, I think there's something so, so insidious to the idea that Orym's perspective of the Vanguard is "flawed/human" or that him repeatedly reminding his friends what the Vanguard does (kill innocents to achieve their means) "blocks nuance" in the conversation, etc, because it implies that, in this mythical "objective" perspective that apparently exists, the Vanguard aren't so bad. If only Orym could put aside his petty grievances, such as the murder of his father and husband, and let people be nuanced about this situation, he'd see there's two sides to this story. And why discount the Vanguard's perspective just because *checks notes* they're a massive, manipulative cult that preys on vulnerable people to join their ranks and turns them to violence, or that they work with a centuries-old fascist eugenicist literally mind-controlling psychic government with the goal of freeing a creature that could very well destroy the world as we know it and even if it doesn't, will leave an enormous power vacuum for that fascist government to potentially occupy when they invade Exandria?

I think there's some misconception people have that they think war shouldn't ever be personal and if it does become personal for someone then their logic is too clouded by their feelings to see the situation clearly, just automatically. And perhaps sometimes, in some contexts, this can be true! But not here. It's actually quite cut and dried that Orym's "flawed, human" perspective is the one reminding everyone of the human cost to Ludinus' grand plans, all in the name of so called "progress"

[nadiajustbe]

The other thing I immensely love about Bartimaeus of Uruk is how inhuman he is. Usually in media authors tend to "humanise" inhuman characters, by giving them stable human appearance or/and character traits. This vampire is actually a 17yo guy. This devil is a 30yo man. This magical god is a always teenage girl and they act accordingly. This is an easy route. Johnathan Stroud doesn't chose it.

Bartimaeus is not a woman but nor he is a man (even despite using he/him pronounce primarily it is canon all spirits are genderless out of nature, some just stend to stick more to one gender than the other). Sure he is not a "child" but nor he is an "adult", because he was never a human in the first place and was never fully presented as either of this. He doesn't devide love in platonic and romantic and doesn't feel a need to clarify. He struggles to explains the way he thinks and difficult for it to translate it to a human reader. He doesn't act as someone of a particular age in "human" understanding as well. He knows thousands of languages and switches between them. He loves humanity and yet still has an unique outside perception of it because he's not a human. He doesn't fit in any of human boxes to check, he's everything and nothing at once. He can look an act of any age or gender or feeling and perhaps fit none of those in your mind.

And this gives so much freedom for creating and fanfiction. Go on make him a young adult college student! Make him a middle aged man who has thousands of jobs! Make him a fourteen year old Ptolemy's twin! Create an AU where he as an anger or a cupid or an ageless God and none of it would be OOC to him! Human!Bartimaeus can be a traveler, a performer, a coffee shop barista, a hired killer! Perhaps don't make him a human at all, what If he is a tired cat who Kitty feeds on her way to work in a shop?

The possibilities are endless because instead of being a human with some cool flashing eyes and superpowers he is not actually a human. He's Bartimaeus of Uruk and that's it.

[bull-shit-suji]

what really grinds my gears these days is how Some People seem to purposefully misconstrued dadbastian to fit their yaoi rhetoric

"erm acshually viewing sebastian as parental is more harmful because no father would act like that so you're basically teaching adolescents to view abusive parents as safe. look at me i'm so smart"

brother. we KNOW it's toxic. not a single person here is trying to claim their relationship is singularly parent/child. that's literally. the whole point. it's profoundly complicated and only resembles a found family trope the vaguest, most heinous way possible.

and the pedantry is absolutely insane coming from the "enjoying it for the complex dark nuances" and "fiction doesn't affect reality" group. yet they are somehow incapable of applying the same logic to an interpretation they disagree with.

[vyeoh]

I have to say, as much as I love the fix-its and the spiked coffee theory, the part of me that's the queer kid living in a homophobic and sometimes manipulative household wants to watch Aziraphale make that mistake fully on his own and grow from it

[bookwyrminspiration]

It's fun to bemoan the odd lines and such, and I was gonna make a joke, but I do think it is genuinely sad how much of Unraveled's promo is leaning so heavily into shipping.

Not because I hate sokeefe or Keefe, but because this is such a massively popular story that has so much to offer outside of a single ship, and it's such a disservice to the years of work Shannon has put in to crafting these characters' stories and world. And to the countless fans who adore the story and characters outside of this single ship.

Both Sophie and Keefe are more than sokeefe, and the way this story about injustice, and rebellion, and loss of self, and grief is being overshadowed by a relationship? See the kiss scene! sokeefe art! foster-related quote! These things themselves aren't bad, but there's no balance; they should be part of more, not the whole thing. KOTLC deserves to retain its complexity in marketing! The readers, including young, deserve to have the story not watered down for them when it's being pushed!

There's also something about how publishers told Shannon KOTLC wouldn't sell because Sophie's a girl, and she pushed through that, only for Sophie to become almost an accessory to Keefe's story here? Making appearances that focus on what Keefe thinks of her instead of Sophie herself. I don't have this fully articulated, but hopefully you see what I'm getting at

Shannon's said for years she hates love triangles, didn't mean to write one, and tries to stay firmly Team Sophie. And I believe her, which makes it worse seeing how despite Shannon's efforts, her story about a brave, stubborn, reckless, passionate girl trying to find herself and do what she can to right the wrongs she sees in the world is getting pared down to a love story.

Now we do have six more weeks to go, so we could get some variety in the future. it's just frustrating so far, and as fun as it is to make silly little jokes about it, I do think there is a genuine critique here of publishing and marketing and treatment of female led stories (yes, unraveled is about keefe, but Keeper is about Sophie), and I wanted to say something

[t00thpasteface]

by and large, Fandom Discourse™ is unchanging and neverending. i joined tumblr in 2011 when i was 14, and i got into a million fights as a high schooler about what i perceived to be very serious issues within the Fandom Discourse™. now, at double that age, enough time passed that i can look back on those days and see that NONE of us had ANY effect whatsoever on our fandom nor any fandoms, and i'm awed at the scale of all that time i could've spent drawing, writing, and chatting with my friends about that thing we like instead of arguing with strangers about it instead.

issues like what's problematic to draw/write, what's problematic to read/watch/play, what's problematic to ship or not ship, etc., are largely Solved Issues— not in the sense that there's one right answer like a solved math problem, but in the sense that there's only one outcome, which is that there will never be one right answer you can just post loudly enough about to convince all the right people and forever shun the nonbelievers.

and maybe it's a little hypocritical of me to make a post like this, but i really don't want to take ANY side in ANY discourse; i just want to help reach people entrenched in the discourse and offer them a way out of it, because i know how easy it is to get trapped in those perpetual outrage cycles, and now more than ever, we need to get OUT of them!! this is your sign to distance yourself from the discourse. if i can help at least one person take one deep breath and cancel one angry post, then my yapping will be worth it :')

[musicalmoritz]

I get so embarrassed every time I passionately hate a straight ship simply bcuz I headcanon the woman as a lesbian. Like objectively there is nothing wrong with it. But I physically recoil every time I see it bcuz omg get her away from that man

[bittersweet-jack-of-no-trades]

I'm sure this has been done before but Gravity Falls/Hunger Games AU? The 50th games/2nd Quarter Quell becomes even more dramatic because in one of the districts, the two male tributes are twins??

This year becomes one of the longest-running games in history; sparked in part by the Capitol's obsession with the twins, Stan and Ford, who have an argument early on and split ways. Stan becomes an expert in hiding and running, making and then breaking alliances as the other tributes inevitably try to use him to get to Ford. But why get to Ford?

Because Ford is excelling. The dangerous and odd mutations of the arena become his fascination and his strength. Probably also because during the pre-game process the Capitol got enamored with his six fingers and awkward attitude and view him as this weird little oddball underdog, and that infuriates especially the Careers. Stan is fighting for his life every day, and thinks Ford is doing the same--- but Ford has a mysterious, anonymous sponsor who sends him everything he needs, signing each note with not a name but a little triangle. The major upset comes when, of course, the last two tributes alive are Stan and Ford. The games end when Stan unceremoniously pushes Ford off a cliff and into the river below.

(Ford, of course, does not actually die. His sponsor was Bill, duh, who I picture as a Heavensbee-like figure, a gamemaker who is actually aligned with D13, more for the chaos than any sense of rebellion or morals. He takes Ford and deposits him in D13 to aid in the rebellion.)

Stan becomes the Haymitch-like drunken, lonely Victor who no one wants to interact with. His district, under his angry tutelage, goes through a period of losing. Then, the 74th games.

When they call Dipper's name, Mabel tries to volunteer. She can't, because she's a girl, but that doesn't stop her from trying so hard the Peacekeepers have to hold her down. So, she does the next best thing: when the girl's name is called, she volunteers again, pushing her way into the games despite Dipper's dismay.

They know Stan is their grunkle, but he's estranged and their first real interactions happen with him as their mentor. He assures them repeatedly they will turn on each other; Dipper and Mabel use the power of twins to win the Capitol's support as gamemakers dramatically drudge up reminders of what happened to the last set of twins. It's the "twins" angle rather than the original books' "star-crossed lovers" angle that earns the twins the right to win as a pair (can you imagine how Stan felt, knowing if he was just a little smarter he and Ford could've been spared, too?).

Eventually, D13's existence is revealed, Ford is shown to be alive, Stan goes through the reverse 7 stages of grief and probably also a lot of booze, etc. etc. They defeat the presidents (probably the Northwests, Pacifica would make a decent President's granddaughter), and end up taking down Bill too as his goal was, of course, to take dictatorial rule in the creation of the power vacuum.

[sajdd]

crazy how theres so much discourse about toriel, asgore and sans because of the new chapters - specifically ch4 ending

sans has been my favourite character in undertale since day 1 but hes just a funny little gag character in deltarune who came off a bit insensitive at the end of ch4. he probably has literally 0 clue about any of the issues or family drama going on. in his eyes he's probably just having a fun time with a new friend. like yeah he was quite insensitive to kris and susie but i honestly think its just not that deep. (at least not yet.) i think people are just expecting undertale-levels of introspection from him at this moment when he's basically not even plot-relevant right now

toriel is a caring mother who's going through the stresses of looking after a kid who has been distancing themselves from everyone for a long time, missing her other child who has been away for studies, and is being stalked by her ex husband who just will not leaver her alone. the way she acted at the end of the chapter was Not Good™ as it was very irresponsible of not checking up on her child but she's just a kind woman who is flawed and made a mistake just like everyone else can

asgore is a man who clearly knows something about dess' dissapearance and we can infer that somehow this led to the dreemur's marriage falling apart and he's desperately trying to prove his innocence or something - thinking that if he does that then it will all go back to normal. is that a situation that calls for some sympathy? probably, depending on what happened. but is stalking toriel the answer to fixing their marriage? fuck no he should absolutely be judged for that - but while his current actions are inexcusable we can assume that whatever happened has made him that desperate of a man and this can evoke some feelings of sympathy

most of us have seen undertale and know how complex all these characters are. yes they are different in deltarune but the context of undertale allows us to already have a loose grasp of what their personalities are like.

they are all complex characters who are well-meaning but can make brash or emotional decisions that do not have the intention of hurting someone but hurt a lot anyway. why is everybody suddenly jumping to extremes on all these characters. none of them are 100% evil or good in this scenario.

[bogkeep]

it fascinates me how often a choice of first or - gasp - second person storytelling can create so much derision and discourse. having preferences is fine obviously, and as a writing choice it Does matter, because all writing choices matter. i don't really... notice?? anymore??? or like, i DO notice, but more in a "what information will the narrative give me access to" kind of way.

i know second person especially can be jarring if you're not used to it, because it's "he would not fucking say that" but for yourself. but it's also like... so many song lyrics have "you" and "i" and to me they're just. a story that exists separate from me. (to the degree lyrics exist to me at all as something other than Sounds that are part of a music piece, but that's the audio processing disorder/'did not grow up with english as a first language and never bothered to decode lyrics' of it all speaking)

i suspect a lot of derision towards first person narratives comes from a derision towards the genres in which it is a staple, rather than that it's somehow uniquely bad. there's really not much difference between a first person perspective and limited third person perspective??

[kerosene-in-a-blender]

Others have talked, very rightly, about Bells Hells having an extremely Us vs. Them style of morality and one thing I find interesting about all that is many of their most virulent (read: actively nasty towards other fans) defenders are also taking this stance. The party line has become that the segments of the fandom that are disappointed with how this campaign shook out have never been happy with anything Bells Hells did from the beginning and have been actively hating on people who do like it for just as long. Us, the beleaguered Campaign 3 lovers versus Them, the mean c3 haters (who are often characterized as being hung up on the Mighty Nein and simply mad Bells Hells aren't the Nein again).

What's been quite funny for me personally is that I have seen vague posts clearly targeted at myself giving me the above detailed characterization of the c3 hater when I: have never seen Campaign 2 (though I did watch Campaign 1 back in 2019), started watching live with the first EXU, got into the fandom (as a lurker) at the start of Campaign 3, didn't make any of my own posts about it until late 2022 and didn't start really posting in earnest until mid 2023. Practically none of the characteristics applied to the archetypal c3 hater certain fans have created actually apply to me, other than of course thinking Campaign 3 actually isn't very good. So it's been interesting to watch people draw lines in the sand and create an Us vs. Them narrative that I know isn't true based on existing as myself.

[swordscleric]

I can't stop thinking about the post from a few days ago about how Critical Role has been great at doing personal faith but didn't put the necessary work in to discuss the religious/god angle of c3 in-depth. Like the fact that Cardinal Respa was linked to both the Dawnfather and the Chained Oblivion is, on a personal level, very interesting (fallen/corrupted priest goes hard) but like does that mean that there's a Papacy somewhere in Exandria dedicated to the Dawnfather? If so, are there more cardinals who ordain the bishops of the Dawnfather? Are there Conclave-level intrigues going on in the Dawnfather's Sistine Chapel? Why is the Dawnfather so Christianity-coded in vibes alone if there's no actual outline of his religious organisations? With Downfall the Dawnchild/Dawnfather thing makes the allusions to Christ as Son of God co-existing with the Father textual - was there a Dawnfather Schism around whether the Dawnchild was a separate mortal? Was there a Reformation about how the Dawnfather's Pope kept selling indulgences? Is that why the priest of the Dawnfather Grog & Pike offer a drink to doesn't partake because of a cultural shift between Protestant-Temperance-League-coded and Catholic-coded Dawnfather congregations? Why do I have so many questions about the religious organisation of one of the most important Prime Deities in Exandria and to Critical Role's 3 campaigns? How on earth were the cast (and us as the viewers!) meant to care about the gods if all they had were "really tall kings" instead of interrogating how religious organisations provide both a place of healing and community to a wide range of people and also a place of horrific harm and abuse for a wide range of people?