#moashposting

[cosmereplay]

[rhythm-of-lesbianism]

i’m a moash liker not in the sense that i think he was morally right in killing elhokar but in the sense that i understand why he chose to kill elhokar given his background and society.

was there a good solution to elhokar’s incompetence other than killing him? not sure. this is why monarchy sucks btw

[skythesnake]

Having thoughts about Moash and the flack he gets, not as a person, but as a character.

Spoilers ahead for the whole stormlight archive.

To start, I hate him deeply for his person. I think he deserves eternal exile on Braize for what he's done. I fully align with the Fuck Moash mentality. That said, I genuinely like him as a character and for the role he plays in the story. I'm not a professional at literary analysis, but I do really like to deconstruct stories in the context of how it fits together. I apologize if I get terminology wrog and I would welcome a discussion, I'm curious to see rebuttals and agreements to my points.

Moash is a villanous foil to Kaladin's heroism. I’ve seen comments on the fact that he, the only one who seems to *keep* pushing on social change is the villain. I think that's almost completely incorrect, and it also ignores the ideology that Moash pushes. First, he isn’t the only one pushing for societal change. Kaladin may stop hating ALL lighteyes, but he, as a darkeyed man, gains some of the highest respect - which alone changes the dynamic at least a little. And he doesn't conform to the current ideals, which sets a precedent and an example to everyone else. Jasnah is also noted to be changing policy regarding slaves, and Dalinar wrote a whole damned book. This is slightly different from darkeyes vs. lighteyes, but the point of that power struggle is that discrimination based on an arbitrary fact - no matter how "good" your reason - is bad. Progress is progress. I want to make it clear that I'm in no way saying that it can't or shouldn't move faster. I'm not implying that people don't need to wake up and check their own prejudice. But I *am* saying that when you grow up a certain way, spend your whole life that way, it's hard to change, even if it'sjust because it'shard to admit when you've done and said some icky stuff, as Brandon Sanderson himself knows.

I also dislike the idea that Moash isn't the villain for having this ideology. Because, yes, to a certain extent, it's correct - wanting equality is important and good. But, the thing that I don't see acknowledged is that Moash doesn't want equality, he wants revenge, which means the conversation is entirely different. Would he be happier if there was equality? absolutely. But as he shows, time and time again, is that all he really wants is to make other suffer like he has. And I think it's important to acknowledge why.

Something that is conveniently forgotten by most people (including me, at times) is that extremism is Bad. You see this in the book with Kaladin's mentality of destroying himself to protect others, you see it in Shallan ignoring all her problems, and you see it, most glaringly, in the Skybreakers, specifically Nale's version. Moash /began/ with a deep desire to do what was right, to bring about justice and equality to those around him. But as he grew more bitter, that narrative twisted and turned into revenge. It turned into an equally bad idea that is VERY common in real life, "They have harmed Us and therefore They are bad and We are good." Which is the very thing that Kaladin has to overcome!

Another issue I see is that Moash isn't very nuanced. He's called flat, and boring, with only ome goal. I disagree for a few reasons. From an in-universe perspective, he is that way /intentionally/. At the end of his arc, when he's Vyre he is purposefully shoving progress aside. The reason he's so morally flat is because he actively chose to be. He answers every question with one answer and you can see that because when Odium's protection goes away, he has a crisis! He has a meltdown that results in him blocking it out in the same way. He cannot handle the idea that he might be wrong anymore and so after his magical protect is gone, he puts up mortal ones, which are in some ways, even tougher to break. But aside from that, he isn't flat in the beginning! He starts as a very human character, trying to get justice and ending up in the wrong situation. He laughs and chats with his friends, he develops a genuine connection to Kaladin and the flattening of his morality is completely intentional on his part.

From a writer's perspective, moash can't really be redeemed - which I see some discourse on - because he is a direct foil to Kaladin. He's a mirror villain, two very, very similar people who started at nearly the same place and grew in opposing directions because of how they reacted. Moash is a good antagonist to Kaladin because they are so similar. The only difference between them is that Kaladin looked at their broken world and decided he was going to fix things by helping them grow in a better direction, knowing that would take a long time, while Moash looked at their broken world and decided he needed to fix things by burning the whole thing down and starting over, because anything less would be too slow for him

I just got frustrated with seeing people dunk on how Moash was written without examining why he was like that, both in-universe and out. Yes, there are issues, like every piece of art, but I thought the way he developed alongside Kaladin was actually quite cool, and while I wasn't pleased with how things ended (I had to close the book and take a break when Teft died) I was satisfied with it, because it felt natural for things to come to that conclusion based on the paths they were both on.

[dienothemink]

i get the teft thing. really. like i at least understand why someone would be attached to his character and feel upset that he’s gone even if i was like. not that sad about it. but jezrien???? you’re telling me you’re mad about jezrien???? for real?? and not as a joke?

[cosmereclysmic]

Brandon said Suffering Builds Character and Moash said Bet.

[werewolfpngs]

if reddit wasn’t too busy talking about how killing a guy they didn’t give a shit about until .5 seconds before his death makes moash irredeemable we could talk about how weird he is about the singers. but alas life is a prison and moash kicked everyone’s dogs. or something

[probablycatastrophic]

moash

[thestormlightnetwork]

I'm Sanderson's bravest soldier

[kandra-chameleon]

I’m not interested in any Stormlight Archive adaptation that doesn’t feature a Moash montage to Anti Hero by Taylor Swift send tweet

[stormtide-leviathan]

Saw a bad take about Moash. Yeah. Killing people with hammers rn

[cosmereplay]

Are you a Moash defender?

Not trying to attack you with the question just legit wondering.

Personally, I would NEVER put myself in the same league as the people who have thoughtfully and critically broken down why Moash's vengeance arc was nowhere near as destructive as Elhokar's Vengeance Pact. Or why fans' vitriol against a fictional character is thought-terminating bullshit at best and at worst, an acceptable way to target people for bullying. Or why fans of colour are much more likely to feel a kinship with Moash and feel betrayed by the narrative's focus on individualism. That kind of analysis is for smarter people than me, though I truly appreciate it and enjoy reading it. I've learned a lot!

Hmmm. I've made art of him. I've written fics with wildly different tones and characterizations of him. I have a #moash stormlight tag for serious posts about him and a #moashposting tag for silly posts. You can check those things out and decide for yourself.

Right now, I don't think I would call myself a Moash defender. I'm a Moash sexualizer. Personally, I headcanon him as alloaro and if he'd been able to fuck regularly he wouldn't have done all that.

[rhythm-of-lesbianism]

why do i love moash? why do i find him deeply compelling and root for his redemption/a different narrative framing for his actions? why am i, on some level, rooting for him? and why do i dislike people wishing violence and death upon him?

well it’s because he’s pretty much the only prominent character we get who doesn’t work from within the established power system. every single other prominent character is within the system. obviously the kholins are the top of the system of power. kaladin also is an obvious example of a “change the system from within” narrative*. same with rlain in many ways. venli is a little better but her major victory in WaT still comes from acquiescing to Alethi power.

i don’t think it’s hard to understand how someone like me might want to see a different perspective, a narrative that doesn’t rely on a character changing things from within. i know most stormlight fans are white. i know many of you probably don’t frequently examine systems of power. that’s fine i guess. but i want you to understand why i want moash to live. i don’t want one of my favorite series to have the overarching message of “if you change the system from outside the system in a flawed way you should die violently”. yes i know moash killed teft. i have read the stormlight archive in its entirety. but he still remains the only character who is angry at the system and tries to gain OUTSIDE power to fight it. yes his way of gaining that power is incredibly flawed but it is also incredibly real to me. if the “good guys” treat you awfully, why would you side with them over the bad guys? again this isn’t me saying moash is a good person, but he’s someone i have a lot of empathy and understanding for. i get it.

and because he is a character who i empathize with and love and understand, you might see why i don’t wish violence upon him and instead want him and his perspective and motivations to be fucking respected within a series that originally positioned itself as being partially about systemic injustice. damn

*i honestly from a political standpoint hate kaladin’s path of “assimilate hard enough, be exceptional and white people might listen to you” but that’s not this post.

[dienothemink]

my nightmare endgame scenario is moash having a split second redemption moment and dying immediately after. “oh well that’s what happened to elhokar so—“ stop this isn’t about him. i want moash to get a fully realized redemption arc or i want him to continue to get worse until he inevitably self destructs. i want it to be horrible and sad and unsatisfying for people that want him to suffer. my second nightmare endgame scenario is moash redemption via going to braize.

[cosmereclysmic]

[thestormlightnetwork]

oh, sorry I didn't answer you, I was Moashthinking

[cosmereplay]

Ok so a fanart of Kal and Moash where Moash is autoerotically asphixiating himself with his line of Connection to Kaladin. And then idk either he's trying to strangle Kaladin at the same time (and he's not enjoying it) or Kaladin is crying and begging him to stop. Is that anything?