#niko andromache

[localcryptic]

meet the sidesteps (customizes their tattoo designs to match their personalities)

[nikoisme]

If we're going by the fact that Astyanax was a toddler during the period of the Iliad;; do you think he had to watch his father be laid upon the funeral pyre? Did he hold his mom's hand? Did he watch as the flames swallowed his father? Did he hear as everyone mourned and lamented over him, but somehow felt that they were mourning something else too? Something too big for him to quite grasp at such a young age, but he still felt it, he was still aware of it. Dread. Fear, perhaps. Creeping along the edges and dimming the land like a cloud of smoke. Dark as the shadows under his father's warm helm. Maybe. hmmm

[destatihayati]

Never Go Up Against a Scythian When Sex is On the Line

In which Joe and Nicky did not get together immediately, and Cool Lesbian Aunt Andromache helps Yusuf figure out his Big Gay Feelings

----------

It takes eight years for the men to find her, and two weeks for them to drive her insane.

She loves them instantly upon meeting, as does Quynh, who is already demanding that Nicolo call her ‘sister’, and teaching him how to say the word in her own language. Andromache finds herself gravitating towards Yusuf, whose easy charm warms her from the inside within seconds. His crooked smile and Nicolo’s kind eyes become woven into the fabric of their lives as though they were always part of the tapestry. They are her family, in every way, without question, but it is a matter of days before she wants to kill them both, multiple times, for being complete and utter idiots.

It’s mostly just the looking . The unbearably fond, secret smiles, the hopelessly yearning stares when they think the other isn’t paying attention. They gaze at each other with such heartsickness, she almost thinks they are doing this on purpose.

She had assumed - they’d both assumed - before meeting them that they were together. And they certainly are together, but not in the way that seems the most obvious to, well, everyone.

They share a bed, but she’s seen them sleep. It’s remarkably chaste, even at their most intimate. They sleep fully clothed, on their sides, with Yusuf’s nose a hair’s breadth away from Nicolo’s neck, one arm always about his waist or shoulder. Beyond that? Nothing. She’s never seen them kiss, they certainly never fuck, and they rarely touch outside of sleep. Andromache finds all of this beyond strange, because if either of them looked at her the way that they look at each other, she’d assume they were madly in love with her.

“Please talk to them,” Quynh says. She kisses Andromache’s cheek. “I get blue balls just from looking at Niko.”

Andromache splays a hand over her lover’s hip. “I have a remedy for that, you know.”

Quynh grins wickedly. “I know you do. Which is why you will have blue balls until you fix theirs.”

Andromache really doesn’t like where this is going. “Quynh, what are you--”

“I’m not coming back until you make them sort their shit out.”

She leaves with the cruelest ghost of a kiss, her strong thighs already gripping the sides of her horse before Andromache can comprehend what just happened.

That night, she makes them sort their shit out.

continue reading on ao3

[alexkablob]

The Duality of Pyrrha and Cinder

I’ve been putting off making this analysis/theory post for a LONG time, but here goes. This is some seriously deep-dive allusion analysis. Buckle in, because this is going to get long. 

Pyrrha is Achilles. this is known. And Jaune is, of course, Pyrrha's love interest. However, Jaune does not play the role of Patroclus, Achilles’ love, to Pyrrha. That role in the narrative is actually played by Penny, because it’s Penny’s death that is the catalyst that pushes Pyrrha into accepting her destiny even though she will likely die as a result.

So, what Iliad character does Jaune play? Andromache. She is the wife of Hector, Prince of Troy, and here’s an interesting fact about her: she has seven brothers. Jaune is gender-swapped Joan of Arc, and thus, naturally, he alludes to this by having seven sisters.

This is because, visual Achilles’ Heel reference notwithstanding, Pyrrha’s death is not, narratively, that of Achilles. It’s Hector’s. Achilles is an arrogant, prideful invader bent on destroying Troy for glory, and he is almost completely invulnerable save for one weak point. Hector is the humble, brave defender of Troy who fights Achilles, knowing that he can't possibly win, but he fights anyway because someone has to try and he's the only one with even a slight hope of victory.

So who, in the fight atop Beacon Tower, is playing Achilles, and who is playing Hector?

That’s not the only way that Cinder plays Achilles, either.  She may be incredibly powerful, near-invulnerable even, but she has a single weakness: her part-Grimm nature making her vulnerable to Ruby's silver eyes. In Volume 5, this even extends to her Aura not protecting her Grimm arm—quite literally a particular spot on her body vulnerable to harm.

So then, if Jaune isn't Patroclus, then what is the allusion basis for Arkos? Bumbleby is Beauty and the Beast, with Adam as Gaston, we all know that, the only people denying that at this point are plugging their ears trying to pretend Blake and Yang aren’t in love, but then what is Arkos?

So, Pyrrha goes to Beacon, and she feels alone and isolated from everyone because of her social class. She's this untouchable famous tournament fighter put on a pedestal who people assume is too good for them, and so she has trouble connecting with anyone. But then she meets Jaune, and he doesn't even know who she is! To him, she's just Pyrrha, not Pyrrha Nikos The Invincible Girl, and so they hit it off.

And they have a lot of important, emotional scenes outside on rooftops and balconies, at night.

And they dance together at a ball.

But then she gets upset for reasons he doesn't understand, and runs away from him without explaining why while he yells for her to wait.

And then, of course, she disappears shortly after she and the other Cinderella smash a clock tower, leaving behind only a single accessory. A tiara, rather than a shoe.

And Jaune, of course, now carries that accessory around with him everywhere he goes, forged into his shield.

Pyrrha and Jaune’s love story is Cinderella, just as Blake and Yang’s is Beauty and the Beast. But, if you’re at all familiar with Cinderella, then you’ll know that Pyrrha and Jaune haven’t completed the story yet.

Pyrrha is Achilles, but Pyrrha is also Cinderella, and Cinder is Cinderella, but Cinder is also Achilles.

So what does all of this mean?

Well, let's go back to that Aura transfer machine.

Ozpin: “Her life will become intertwined with yours. The question is…” 

Qrow: “What’s that gonna do to you?” 

The thing that Ozpin described to Pyrrha as having unknown effects on her if she went through with it?

Ozpin: “Believe me, I wish this weren’t the case, but as I’ve told you: our Auras, our souls, are combined.”

Is...kind of Ozpin’s exact, specific reincarnation curse.  Which is doubly interesting when you consider that in 6x03, Ozma is paralleled to Pyrrha extensively, with Jaune paralleled to Salem. Pyrrha-Ozma really explains itself there, and with Salem, well, she becomes suicidal after his death...but then later recognizes him on sight even though he's in a different body.

Ozpin, I suspect, had somewhat better of an idea of what the Aura transfer machine would do than he let on to Pyrrha. He thought that it would, effectively, recreate his curse by merging Amber’s soul with Pyrrha, the way that his own soul merges with Oscar after his death.

But, of course, it went horribly wrong. Cinder killed Amber before the transfer could be completed, and so Pyrrha was never the Fall Maiden.

But Pyrrha’s soul interacted with Amber’s.

And so, when Pyrrha died a few minutes later...

Something that keeps being reinforced, subtly, is that the time between Ozpin’s death and his reincarnation in Oscar was unusually fast by his standards.

Meaning it could easily take, say, a year for his soul to reincarnate.

Something I’ve yet to go into here is how Cinder plays Cinderella, her own overt allusion. Pyrrha gets the Prince, but Cinder gets the rest of the myth’s aspects. She believes Salem to be her Fairy Godmother, of course. Salem is the one who took her in and gave her the power she desired.

But Cinder is wrong.

Cinder is Salem's glorified errand girl, and as much as she's desperate to prove to herself that she controls her own life, she really, really doesn't. Salem is the Wicked Stepmother, and Watts and Tyrian are her Wicked Stepbrothers.

So, who is the supernatural force that will eventually show Cinder how to actually free herself from Salem?

It's the ghost of the girl she murdered who’s living inside her head.

How could Pyrrha "If there's even the smallest chance of helping someone it's a chance worth taking" Nikos completely, utterly destroy the woman who murdered her, the woman who she, more than anyone else in all of Remnant, has reason to hate?

By looking into her memories, her internal thoughts and feelings, seeing the entirety of her life and actions and awful, awful life choices...

And feeling sorry for her.

[theathenszinebibliotheque]

AZB @ SIKINOS VOL.3 — Join us this year as we return to Sikinos island for the third time (check 2018 & 2019 past events). During the weekend of the 17th and the 18th of July 2021 (from 19:00 to 22:00), AZB will present at the yard of the old school of Kastro village all the zines that were added to the library since summer of 2019. Also, on Saturday the 17th of July we will hold an open zine workshop (at 19:00) on how to make an one-page zine.

Free entrance. — The event is sponsored by the Municipality of Sikinos and is supported by the SNFPHI (The Stavros Niarchos Foundation Public Humanities Initiative at Columbia University). — List of zines (in alphabetical order) participating at the exhibition "AZB @ Sikinos VOL.3":

• _Brut — Álvaro Fernández • 15. August 2020. A day in the life — Various • 1998-2018: 20 years making zines!/20 anos zinando! — Julie Albuquerque • Abnormal — George Tourlas • Abrasion — Kati Akraio • Airlines on paper — Tefra90 • An illustrated guide to insta-emotions — Kati Akraio • Anartchy — Jens Besser & Shlomo Faber • Another day in the office — Sophia Tolika • Armarolla, issues #1-4 — Stelios Hadjithomas • Around Labor, Art, and the Auratic Condition (This is Not a Love Song) — Various • ArtSexDrugsRevolution.gr — Θείο Τραγί • Atomphysik — Philip Joa • Autobioskat — Georgios Plastok • Berliner Mortis Zine — Livor Mortis Zine & Berliner Mauern • Bernd — Daria Rubisch • Blurry territory, notes for a topography of curiosity — Georgios Plastok & Alfred Fabricius • body / struck, issue 1 — Ifigeneia Ilia-Georgiadou & Angelos Kalogerias • Boys! Männer! — Michalis Pichler • Camila — Julie Albuquerque • Carousel #4 — Various • CcBnC issue[1]: prall — Prall • Cheesyphus — Dennis Muñoz Espadiña • Choose your fighter — Jovana Ćubović & Nataša Mihailović • Claustrophobic Tendencies — Never Brush My Teeth • Cockroach Milk — Never Brush My Teeth • Confused Jack — Inés Ballesteros • Crucial Zine, 2019/20 Winter Holiday Special — Various • Crucial Zine, issues #8-11 — Various • Crucial Zine,The CB1 years/MMVIII-MMXI — Various • Dadatek: a manifesto against techno — filtig • DCIM — Κυκλοθυμία & το σφάλμα • Deadiario — Julie Albuquerque • Desired landscapes, issue #3 — Various • Divine Furies Trilogy: The Oracle, The Rescue & The Wedding Night — Nikos Kachrimanis • Do polaroids dream of instant cameras? — Nikos K. Kantarakias • Doors of Athens — Death Vallée & Tarta Ross • Doors of Kypseli — Eleanor Lines • Dotter — Aimilia Balaska • Enterprise Projects Journal, issues #1-4 — Kostas Stasinopoulos, Evita Tsokanta, Myrto Katsimicha, Panos Giannikopoulos • Faces n' Chases, vol.01 — RTMONE & Nadia Stasinou • Finding New Problems — Andromache Kokkinou • Footnotes, issue C — Various • For the love of God — Sinde Butler • Garm zine — Ιωάννης Καρμανιώλος • Giant-size Holy Shit Comix! — Tasmar • Goodbye Horses — Mass Control Superviolence • Graffiti from an American Refugee — Pockets • Greatest hits — Michalis Pichler • GRIP — Aidan Frere-Smith • Gutzine — Various • Hallow Zine — AUB Zine Society (various) • Haras 2nd class — Sarah Maria Schmidt/Haras (Ananas) • Have some change — Mass Control Superviolence • Help — Andromache Kokkinou • Herbal healing: Making Fire Cider — J Henry Hansen • Hibernation — Fred Afraid • Holy shit comix!, issue #3 — Tasmar • Home Is Where The Heart Is — Aidan Frere-Smith • Hotfoot Terrors — Never Brush My Teeth • How to exist at the beach as a non-conforming body — Asparagus Plumosa • How to make your own one-page zine / Πως να φτιάξεις το δικό σου μονοσέλ��δο ζιν — The Athens Zine Bibliotheque • I wonder if they could hear me jerking off and other closet fag tips — Unknown • Imaginary Memories, coloring book — RTMONE • Indie music: From fans to professionals — Athanasia Daskalopoulou, Alexandros Skandalis, Maria Dianellou, Fay Daskalopoulou • İşkembe çorbası - Χαϊκού για γερό στομάχι — Χάρης Αλεξίου • Kavourakia Ta — Queer Ink • Kiefer on dirtbike — Tefra90 • Let's talk about feelings — Unknown • Lethargic Punch — Never Brush My Teeth • Light your future bright, 2nd edition — Barba Dee • Livor Mortis Zine #1 Hype in the Hypogeum — SBF Ruttley • Livor Mortis Zine #13 Mo Honey Mo Problems — SBF Ruttley • Livor Mortis Zine #2 Party Hits Vol.2 — SBF Ruttley • Livor Mortis Zine #6(66) The Number of the Beast — SBF Ruttley • Lord — DED2: APESK, ΗΓΗ • Lost in the city — Inés Ballesteros • Lung-Independent music fanzine, issue #6 — Various • Manual — Leifur Ýmir Eyjólfsson • Map of Santorini, Greece — Lila Ruby King & One Quarter Greek • Mercury Retrograde — Asparagus Plumosa • Moan, issue one — Various • Modern savior — Marianna Papageorgiou • Monsanto Company Earnings Call Transcript — Michalis Pichler • Moth. — Asparagus Plumosa • My first bike touring adventure — J Henry Hansen • My pen won't break, but borders will. — Parwana Amiri • Neo Mythological — The Krah • Neptune Square Neptune or my midlife crisis — J Henry Hansen • Networking with an attitude! — Julia Evans • NEW YORK POST flag profile — Michalis Pichler • Newspaper from the American West — Antonis Theodoridis • Not Dead Yet, vol.1 — Various • Nothingness — Manuel Hernández Ruiz • Official Portrait — Lewis Bush • Parental Leave — Anne-Laure Franchette • Peach + Eggplant — AUB Zine Society (various) • Perzine Prompts, Power to your voice — Andromache Kokkinou • Peza vs. Noir (NAC 1st Year Zine) — Neo-Apollonia Crew • Poor Appetite — Folded City • Pour Une Nouvelle Nouvelle Sculpture Grecque — Stamatis Schizakis • Pro-typos, fiction newspaper, Design Walk 2012 — pi6 • Psychedelic Art — AUB Zine Society (various) • Quasar — Ctin • Queer Ink DIY zine — Queer Ink • Queer βίωμα τραύμα και μνήμη — Mochi & Smar • Quotidien — Georgios Plastok • Room around a page — Chloë van Diepen • Self important — Kati Akraio • Soft cake — Sarah Maria Schmidt/Haras (Ananas) • Solo : A broad, issues: #2 & #3 — J Henry Hansen • Solo Diver — Solo Diver • Some call them balkans, 6 acts/books — The Ground Tour Project • Some fallen umbrellas and something else — Michalis Pichler • Sonic Urbanism — &beyond • Street Crawler, issues #1-2 — Aidan Frere-Smith • Summer Time!!! … And how to survive it! — Asparagus Plumosa • Sunny Days, the A-dash issue — A-dash (various) • Swimming outside the stream (vol.I-IV) — Karan Reshad • Talk to me — Born, Think & Yiakou • The adventures of Betty X — Krista Raisa • The Architect is absent — kyklàda.press • The Athens Zine Bibliotheque People — Nadia Stasinou • The bugbook! — Stefania Patrikiou • The cemetery is a forest — Olga Vereli & Katerina Markoulaki • The dreams of Charlotte — Charlotte & Inés Ballesteros • The Feminine Sublime — Rakel McMahon, Katrín Inga Jónsdóttir Hjördísardóttir & Eva Isleifs • The Gum Issue Magazine, issues #1-3 — Various • The international pop no.1, La Sabotage — Dominik Leitner • The Krah illustra zine (1997-2020) — The Krah • The Krah sketchbook, issue #1 — The Krah • The lioness only swims when she has to — Margarita Athanasiou • The Olive tree and the old woman — Parwana Amiri • The search for what doesn't exist begins — Leifur Ýmir Eyjólfsson • The space in between — Chloë van Diepen • The Ultimate Book Coat, User's Guide—Dah Yee Noh • The urban encounters zine — Various • The Urge — Tairis Dimitris • The worst street journal, issue #4 — Dimitris Mitropoulos • Things we don’t talk about — J Henry Hansen • This is my b. world — b. • Tinted window, issue #1: Hervé Guibert — Various • To make radical poetry from home: zine & catalogue — Various • Tomorrow Land — Jana Jarosova • Torso: The Athens Zine Bibliotheque issue — Andrew Nicholas • Torso: IZM July 2019 issue — Andrew Nicholas • Torso: Wild (16 issues) — Andrew Nicholas • TRAINS (FTBTP) — Livor Mortis Zine • Tunnel Up/Tunnel Down, a zine about virtual private networks — Mara Karagianni • Unlimited Card Zine — Noam Assayag & Nick Splendorr • Until the darkness was gone… — J Henry Hansen • Untitled — Stefania Patrikiou • Untitled — Kunstlerexemplar • Untitled — Michael Oskar Wlaschitz • Untitled, vol.1 — Aidan Frere-Smith • Untouchable!! Unreachable!! — Cara Farman & Cameron Lynch • Versifier — William Lee a.k.a. Shannon Flegel • Vielleicht Schwammerl — Kati Akraio • Von Eisen Und Wind — Klára Zahrádková • We are Stefan Werc — Tiny Hand Collective • What I wore yesterday — Asparagus Plumosa • Why do bunnies need to go to therapy? — Queer Ink • Writing new titles for an unfinished novel — Esther Kempf • You stay at home all day and daydream about shoulder dislocations — Never Brush My Teeth • You were born naked and the rest is drag — Amor de Primas • Zine 02 — Various • Zine of zines: "Pause" — Emily Randall • Zine-Ception! A zine about zines — Asparagus Plumosa • 7 αγαπημένα μέρη στη Σίκινο — These Are A Few Of Our Favorite Things • 7 θρεπτικές ουσίες που πρέπει να προσέξεις σε περίπτωση αιφνίδιας χορτοφαγίας — Margarita Athanasiou • 90 ίχνη — Αλέκος Κοάν & Φώντας • ��τιτλο — Liz Papadaki • Εδραιωτικό τετράδιο φιλίας ε#1 — Maria Paneta • Εμβοές, Πεταλούδες της λήθης — Νικόλας Μαλεβίτσης • ένα προς δύο (1:2) — Nikos Staikoglou • Εξομολογήσεις — Various • Η πρώτη τελευταία και παντοτινή Μπιενάλε του Ψηλορείτη, Παναγιώτης Λουκάς & Μαλβίνα Παναγιωτίδη — Stamatis Schizakis • Η πρώτη τελευταία και παντοτινή Μπιενάλε του Ψηλορείτη, Ρένα Παπασπύρου — Stamatis Schizakis • Η πρώτη τελευταία και παντοτινή Μπιενάλε του Ψηλορείτη, Φοίβη Γιαννίση — Stamatis Schizakis • Θα βγαίνω θα πίνω — Asparagus Plumosa • Θέρως — μ² • Καλοκαίρι από απόσταση — Νίκος Καπετάνιος • Λένα Λεπιδόπτερα — Eloish Leigh • Λίπος Άλμπατρος #6 — Joanne Alexopoulou • Μια εποχή στον χαρτοπόλεμο — Αντώνιος Βάθης • Νεωτερισμοί — Χάρης Αλεξίου • Ντελίριο — Μαρία Κωνσταντοπούλου • Οι παγωμάρες μέρες του Πηλίου — Αναστασία Δαφερέρα • Πευκόραμα — Christina Karavida & Louis Bitsikokos • Ποιήματα για Πόκεμον — #TextMe_Lab • Πολιτικά χοντρέλες — Σοφία Αποστολίδου, Hodan Warsame, Φωτεινή Κάκκαρη & Βασιλική Λαζαρίδου • Πώς να φτιάξεις χαρτί στο σπιτάκι σου και να τυπώσεις διάφορα πράγματα ανάλογα με την όρεξή σου και το budget σου, εγχειρίδιο part 1 — Νέλλη & Χριστίνα • Σαντορίνη: μια σύντομη εισαγωγή — Θάνος Ν. Στασινόπουλος • Σαράντα δύο — Silent • Σεμπρία, τεύχη #1-3 — Κύριος Φλανέριος • Σου 'χω πει ποτέ — Tango with lions • Τα θερινά — Χάρης Αλεξίου • Τι τρώνε οι κότες; — Νικόλας Φαράκλας • Τρυφερά υφαίστεια ως το μεδούδι χωρίς επιστροφή — Αντώνιος Βάθης • Φούιτ, τεύχη ΙΙΙ, ΙV & V — Various • Χαίρομαι που είσαι φίλη μου — Asparagus Plumosa • Χαμένο σαν σταφίδα σε μωσαϊκό — Never Brush My Teeth • Ψηφίδες / Pixels (12 books) — miss dialectic • Ψωμί — Paky Vlassopoulou

List of zines that we forgot in Athens (will be presented in 2022 at "AZB @ Sikinos VOL.4"): • 38°32’S 143°58’E — Mirella & Arur Kokk • Berlin Love Me — Αντώνιος Βάθης • Do I have self esteem? — Alex Schauwecker • freedom machine — Mirella & Arur Kokk • Kerozine, issue #1 — The Shop Lifters Collective • Tabloid, issue #1 — Various • διαχωρισμός — Mirella & Arur Kokk • Η πρώτη μου βαβέλ — Tasmar

[nikoisme]

there are easier ways to kill me y'know

[nikoisme]

absolutely DEVASTATED. we are supposed to do the iliad methinks on thursday and friday but i got sick as fuck so i will most likely miss those days. what even is this world.

[aaronofithaca05]

Niko, you don´t have to break me more.

WARNING: BLOOD AND BODIES

It was almost night as the little boy tried to sleep, it had been a hard day running in the gloomy halls alone. there was not a laugh accompany him or to brightened up those halls that seemed to grow with every moment.

Mom wasn´t there like he had hope for, No. she had been in their bedroom all day but he didn´t saw dad.

Everyone was crying and father´s name echoed in the walls as the waves in a storm. But Astyanax didn´t know why they said his name and he didn´t get there.

"Maybe dad is in a journey or is his feasting with his friends in a far a way palace" thought the naïve child.

He didn´t saw how his father´s body had been paraded trough Ilium's doors by Achilles chariot, he didn´t saw the trail of blood that the bundle of flesh that used to be Dad draw in the moist spring soil, he was to shorth to gaze above the line of rocks that protected their sieged city, he only heard Mom´s wails and desperation in their chambers before existing the room with red wet eyes.

The little child was been guided by the widow queen into his room to get ready for bed as Nix´s veil descended slowly on the city.

He was there getting ready in his little world of swords, horses and wool, he was old enough to hold a vow and Dad wanted to show him how to shoot an arrow next month.

"He said that If I´m good i can be like him" said the boy, while Andromache´s eyes open the sea trapped in her heart that she tried to kept to not make his Joy suffer more.

"Scamandrus" said the destroyed queen.

"Hector is far away" she left humming as a if his name was now a curse. "be kind and fall asleep my little son, tomorrow will be hard" she added before kissing him and closing the dark heavy door.

"Hector" repeated the boy as he had never heard his father´s name in his mom´s voice.

"Hector"

Eos greeted a city that had birthed a new river in a night; all the royal palace wept as a box of twigs and trunks had been built in the inner garden of his home. Grandpa was there the origin of the stream that moistened all of Troy´s soils.

"Mom" asked the little boy, "what´s happening, why is there a box of twigs" he added. There was silence, the queen´s mind was so devastated that she didn´t noticed how his kid was destroying her dress, how he was touching her with his chubby hands, how he stopped asking and went to his bedroom while the rest stood like a garden of pillars seeing how a flame started to burned the wooden box he didn´t cared to see.

The only thing he remembered was the smoky air that lingered well before dusk that sticked to his frail and soft blankets.

He dreamed of flames, of leaves dancing in the wind, of his dad´s face smiling seeing how he shooted an arrow.

If we're going by the fact that Astyanax was a toddler during the period of the Iliad;; do you think he had to watch his father be laid upon the funeral pyre? Did he hold his mom's hand? Did he watch as the flames swallowed his father? Did he hear as everyone mourned and lamented over him, but somehow felt that they were mourning something else too? Something too big for him to quite grasp at such a young age, but he still felt it, he was still aware of it. Dread. Fear, perhaps. Creeping along the edges and dimming the land like a cloud of smoke. Dark as the shadows under his father's warm helm. Maybe. hmmm