#nov 16th vs doomsday...

[boygirlctommy]

"as long as we're still together, then l'manberg lives on" vs "we're not l'manberg anymore, but we're still together"...

[cdroloisms]

for me was always weird bc csapnap was on csbi's side? like yes for a time was with cdream but he helped ctommy to get the disks back and after cgeorge was no longer a king both he and cgnf were on their side agaist cdream and manberg like even if they take a step back for el rapis and on moment when he was ctommy's enemy was in the tower battle where he fought with ctechno and cdream on his side so ???? if it was cdream vs csbi i get it more but csapnap and cgeorge weren't csbi enemies or at least for very short time they were

neither were c!sbi even on c!sbi's side lmao like c!sbi as a unit doesn't exactly exist in the lore. c!sapnap's alliances with c!dream and c!tommy both were often tenuous and self-interested loooong before stuff with the spirit speech and exile--and c!sapnap and c!george worked with quackity and karl for the mexican lmanburg debates, but were largely uninvolved with NLM (save for c!sapnap fighting in doomsday). like, the dsmp has scarcely ever worked in terms of "two defined sides with no overlap" (like, the closest you're gonna get is probably the revolution and ONLY the revolution, conflicts were hardly that simple before the revolution either) and c!sapnap in particular has always been on the chaotic side while c!george was more known for a relative degree of disinterest (see: his not being involved in either nov 16th or doomsday). and in terms of c!sbi, i mean, a lot of what c!wilbur does throughout the story kinda goes pretty damn directly against c!techno's ideals (hence why techno was rather explicitly kept in the dark for a lot of pogtopia) and c!tommy and c!techno obviously had their split as well. c!george dislikes c!tommy while c!sapnap on the whole is friendly with him (but it's c!sapnap so of course he's gonna do shit like harass shroud lmao, mans was known as the pet killer for a Reason and the pet wars had a lot of sapnap and tommy being on opposing sides bc of each other), c!george has his "your technoblade" jealousy moment and iirc c!sapnap was nawt fond of c!techno either? i forget specifics abt that particular relationship tho. c!sapnap and c!george were never really on c!wilbur's side in any conflict...as opposed to c!dream, who was. and so on and so forth

[thatweirdguyinthebushes]

RECOMMENDED VODS TO UNDERSTAND C!TUBBO

if you need a refresher on your characterization or just havent looked much at his pov, heres some vods (a little outdated, but holds up well enough imo)

MANBERG ERA

the election day. really nice for tubbo characterization, because it kind of starts all of it. especially the yes-man shit. also the “hope for the best, plan for the worst” line first gets dropped here, and that’s a major feature of tubbo’s character.

wilbur’s “are we the bad guys” speech stream. this vod is not used often enough for tubbo characterization. understandably so, because it’s wilbur centric, but it’s very very good for manberg era tubbo and show him behaving as a competent spy. like he straight up gaslights president schlatt can we talk about that- 

the festival. of course. i especially recommend paying attention to before the festival because it’s got tubbo doing his spy moves which i always like.

nov 16th specifically stuff before the battles start is nice for tubbo and quackity dynamic. i really care a lot about the step left vs step right conversation.

NLM ERA

summarizes what tubbo wants out of his rule, which i really like. gives you those president tubbo vibes.

really really nice NLM characterization. his rules help characterize what he finds important very succinctly

the first and the second exile vods from his pov. i know youve already seen it from tommys pov but i implore you to check out the second one at least. he and quackity have a repeat of the step left vs step right talk that makes me feel A Lot.

nice for those mid-exile vibes and also dream tubbo interaction

butcher army and tubbo finding out tommy is “dead”.

Doomsday. just. tubbos silence basically the entire time as he dies over and over and throws himself in front of fireworks... this one Hurts.

SNOWCHESTER

founding Snowchester! this one does a lot to my head, especially because he holds blue in his offhand the entire time.

nukes and a paranoid boy smile

this one is really nice. foolish and tubbo interactions are incredibly solid and the tour around the server makes me :). also the way tubbo talks about all his old tunnels and all the memories is absolutely wonderful at characterizing his mindset.

and then obviously the outpost conflict because the formal conversation between quackity and him is just stellar.

[thespoonisvictory]

*disclaimer* I love s2 a lot I just like poking fun at it

S1 is the best because

The plot is actually coherent and compellingly written, without random plot drops

Dual perspective streams, or even more where we had like 20 povs streamed

Everyone had personal stakes in one large arc rather than just a few for each- united conflict all the way baby it was more compelling

C!Fundy and c!Niki were at their strongest and most compelling

Beautiful use of internal vs external conflict in c!Schlatt and c!Wilbur

Speaking of which s1 Wilbur has the most brilliant, cleanly written character arc we've seen at that level of difficulty. While others have been great, nothing that perfectly performed and widely impactful, As Well As well paced, subtle, and not isolated from the rest of the conflict has been pulled off

The first festival is literally the best smp event ever sorry

Every character is important and has a Moment on Nov 16, the disc finale wishes it was that well organized

Fundy's spy arc

The Eret betrayal

Niki telling Schlatt to starve happens

Have I mentioned that Wilbur's a good character yet

Schlatt's inauguration speech

16ths

Crimeboys

Doomsday didn't happen in s1 :)

[smp-live]

Hello notable Dream SMP Analyst ender ace-enderchest. What do you think would be the best way for the SMP to end? Or at least, what are some pointers you would like to see in the finale?

This is like, nearly a month and a half old, at this point, and I started my answer back then but never finished it whoopsies! Now, at this point, I... would be happy with any finale or ending of sorts tbh. For the major players. Just give me something. Also: warning, this is very rambley and vague but I promise I tried to keep it brief I could ramble on for so long about this. Feel free to send follow-up questions. Anyways here’s what I originally had with a few modifications:

Mm okay I don’t have many... concrete ideas for a finale, more just general directions I’d be happy if they take. And I’d definitely want a sort of ‘epilogue’ after any sort of finale - not even set in the future, or anything. Just to see the aftermath. I’d actually rather it end calmly over several streams with no big confrontation than on something with Jan. 20th or Nov. 16th levels of resolution. (Also I won’t talk about the Egg arc or many of the non-L’Manberg-adjacent players because idk that much about them. (It wound up Wilbur-centric because of course it did. Sorry))

First off, if you’re here, you probably know that a Wilbur redemption arc is pretty much a must for me. A Sam one too, and ideally Quackity as well. Although I kinda feel like both Wilbur and Quackity is asking for a bit too much, given how they’re parallels in their downfall and all that jazz, and that could be used to highlight how choices affect whether people get redeemed - one tries and succeeds, one tries (or doesn’t) and fails. That’s pretty much the only situation where I’d accept no Wilbur redemption arc; if Quackity gets one specifically as a contrast to Wilbur’s failure.

For Sam, he takes a step back from the prison, probably after Dream breaks out. And I do want Dream to break out. It’s the perfect catalyst for so much conflict. I don’t think he should do much, though. Nothing on Doomsday’s level, or exile. More like he just... exists, and everything falls apart because of it. Maybe goes after Tommy a bit. After that, I don’t care what happens to him. Either he dies, or leaves, or fucks off and ‘heals.’ A redemption arc would make me :/ though. Sapnap should get to confront/fight him. Ideally, somehow the revival book is destroyed, so Limbo is destroyed? Which I can’t figure out how that would work without Dream dying.

The Syndicate - mostly Techno and Phil - should be established as properly ‘not the good guys.’ No more subtle hints in dialogue. Explicitly show it. Niki and Ranboo can stay friends with them, though, because (from the little we’ve seen with Niki) it seems healthy enough. She just needs more relationships. (Also bring back Puffychu.)

Everyone else - Tommy, Tubbo, Eret, the Las Nevadas gang - I want them to be caught in the crossfire. They just want to chill and heal, have a purpose, have a place to belong, but they get swept up on one side or another. Tommy specifically, I want him to bounce between Wilbur and Quackity and pull a Ranboo, staying in the middle.

Okay. After those, I sorta have a few ideas of how things could go down? I'm really torn between some, too, like I want the Las Nevadas TNT to go off as a setback for Wilbur and so Quackity, Tubbo, Fundy, etc. lose everything again, but I also want Chekhov's Gun to not fire, this time. I think that'd be a neat difference from s1, and show the ways Wilbur has changed vs. the ways he hasn’t.

My original idea, that I think still works for the ‘main’ conflict, is the Syndicate and Dream vs. Las Nevadas, with Wilbur and Tommy caught in the middle. Post-prison break, the Syndicate sets their sights on Las Nevadas. Tommy splits off from Wilbur to go take refuge with Quackity, (because the Syndicate is with Dream,) Wilbur sides more with the Syndicate, (I’m hesitant to say this because he has expressed disagreement over their ideals, however I think he’d side with them against Las Nevadas specifically because of his comparisons between it and L’Manburg.) They fight, etc. until Wilbur goes to press the button.

Either he actually presses it, or he doesn’t but people don’t believe him, or it doesn’t work. Each would show something about how much he’s changed, or hasn’t, and I honestly don’t know how it would go down. The rest of his arc is having to deal with the fallout of people actually not trusting him, and not just past him. Current him.

Las Nevadas has to deal with (nearly) having lost their home the same way again. Ideally, they have some talks and confront their feelings about L’Manburg, things like that. Quackity redemption please? Showing him as more sympathetic and humanizing him? And the Syndicate has some internal conflict, maybe over working with Dream, maybe over their methods, maybe something else. Idk. They just need internal conflict, man.

Something happens with Dream. Maybe he goes after Tommy again, or he just slips up and says something. Wilbur finds out about exile, and he’s actually pissed. (Techno is too, hopefully? But I don’t have my hopes too high.) Wilbur denounces Dream, or maybe helps Tommy take his final life or something? Anything that makes this his Big Redeeming Moment, after having reached his lowest point, with nobody trusting him.

And... yeah. After that, stuff just resolves. People have whatever necessary conversations, etc. But I think the Festival equivalent would be the Syndicate vs. Las Nevadas, and the Nov. 16 equivalent would be that confrontation against Dream.

Of course, this is all what would ideally happen for me. With scheduling and everything, who knows. Even if this is what they have planned, it might not be what actually plays out.

I do think the button will be Wilbur’s first moment of truth, though, followed up by a subversion/confirmation of his redemption with Dream. It’s just the way things seem to be setting up? And he’s much more... convinced he’s doing the right thing with Las Nevadas. It’s more of a personal thing, tied into what he did wrong the first time. Having him side with Dream after finding out about exile 1) would make a Crimeboys reconciliation kinda awkward, and 2) feels less connected to his arc overall. Compared to having to grapple with detonating what is essentially ‘L’Manburg 2,’ in his eyes. Also I just don’t see him siding with Dream, once he has the whole picture. I dunno.

It would make a much bigger failure, if he does go through with it, or a bigger success, if he doesn’t. Then it can have that bittersweetness of nobody believing that he wasn’t gonna do it, and turning on him. It’s a better catalyst for self-improvement than only Tommy leaving, and attacks the root of the problem more than seeing Tommy’s abuser as his hero? Parallel-wise. It fits better.

(A lot of people seem convinced Dream will be his big setback. I see where they’re coming from, it’s the most immediately obvious outcome, especially given how long it’s been hinted at compared to the TNT. It just doesn’t feel right to me, especially given the whole ‘nobody’s guessed where I’m taking him’ quote. Although it could happen, with Las Nevadas vs. the Syndicate as the big finale and Dream as the Festival equivalent. Then, Dream would be Wilbur’s setback, and the button would be his redemption. It just doesn’t feel as climactic as the other way around, for anybody’s arcs.)

No matter what happens, the biggest thing for me, is I want the OG L'Manburg gang back together. I want them to fight against a common enemy, or make up, or just anything that points towards a happy ending for them where they’re together, again. Eret included - though not as close as the others. Maybe they don’t live together. Maybe they only visit every once in a while. But I want them to be friends.

I want Niki and Tommy to talk, and then go get Jack. I want Fundy to have a support system. I want him, and Tubbo and Ranboo, to not be raising their kids alone, terrified of anyone finding out. I want Quackity and Fundy to finally feel like they belong somewhere. I want Wilbur to get better, and Eret to finally feel redeemed. I want them all to have a home again.

[elliotl]

Some Thoughts On DSMP plot lines and characters. [Your opinions are valid if they have sensible reason and logic. I am not "attacking" anyone here :D If I am wrong please feel to politely correct me.]

How many times did techno get the short end of the stick? How many times he has suffered the consequences of other's actions because the people who created them in the first place didn't stick around. All the anger and hatred projected towards him. But when he retaliated, 'you could have compromised techno! You are a selfish bastard techno'. NO this is not the way it works.

I am very happy that c!Wilbur died. He is the lucky one. He became the luckiest when c!Philza stabbed him. c!Wilbur Soot came with conflict and died while creating 10 more. Where as c!Dream? His biggest mistake was to survive every conflict and he is paying for it. Very ruthlessly paying for it. I dont think c!Wilbur would have ever paid for the actions he did, the way c!Dream is paying for. Because c!wilbur is the supposed hero and there would have been huge uproar in fandom if anything of that sort would have happened. He is back. He blew up L'Manberg in the first place but NO ONE talks about it. All people do is 'hate technoblade, eat hot chip and turn a blind eye'. I mean Wilbur himself said that Philza did a good thing killing him otherwise he would have "spiraled down/fought" even more and ended up in exile or worse cases. What a lucky lad.

I got into DSMP because of Techno and have been following his POV mostly (a bit before Nov 16th) so I never got the importance of L'Manberg and the greed/urgency/desperation to get it back. It was also fueled by Tubbo's execution. I mean what kind of ally and friend doesnt step in in a situation like this and then they can surely reveal their location when one of their friends is dead? Then I learned how L'Manberg came into being. I think it was born out of spite and the amusement to see people around Wilbur play in conflict as he gained power. This is all I think L'manberg was to the main storyline. It wasn't heroic to me. It wasnt that amusing. People say L'Manberg brought people together but did it or is it just a fan fantasy. The original ones literally went against it once Wilbur started to spiral down or even before then, where is 'our' l'manberg in this. c!Wilbur not only manipulated the images of the people for each other in his being but also did that to majority of the fandom. People hate on c!Techno, c!Phil and c!Dream cuz they arent on side of c!Tommy and c!Wilbur. c!Wilbur would have exactly wanted this. I think the people who were around from the "birth" of L'Manberg, (at least many of them) neglect the so called villains, which they clearly aren't, because they have rooted it in their minds that L'Manberg was a heroic thing to happen. Black and white. L'Manberg vs everyone else.

God I adore 'It was a Drug Van' by Ranboo. I support his pre-doomsday speech very much. It was a drug van. There was freedom in greater dsmp. The rules were made for avoiding the conflict.

I swear to god if ever again a character or any person is going to say "L'Manberg is a part of history and sense of freedom who fought for it so it is important". I will calmly PUNT you into the void. I hope it all makes sense. It was heat of the moment thing on which I wanted to speak on for weeks now. Thanks for reading it tell the end! please share your thoughts guys.

[proudfreakmetarusonikku]

fine then @skilatilu trans TommyInnit hc under the cut

- I love the LabInnit headcanon and hc Tommy as a clone of Philza, with just enough hybrid and human DNA to be able to gestate and grow like a normal child. Unfortunately for him, this left him human enough to have an actual biological sex (unlike pure angels like Philza, who are monosex.), though before puberty it was only able to be determined through like genetic tests (which Tommy had gone through a ton of due to being a lab rat).

- When Tommy was about three, Techno burnt down the lab he was imprisoned in (it was a government lab dedicated to unethical weapon experimentation). When Techno and Phil were looking through the rubble, they found this kid trapped in a cage covered in surgical scars and looking eerily like Philza, and Philza just immediately adopted him. Most of the records of Tommy’s experimentation survived (thankfully, as he has specific medical needs and stuff due to being a patchwork abomination of every species under the sun), so Phil read through them and assumed Tommy was a girl (though he doesn’t really get the concept of gender) and named “her” Clementine.

- Tommy didn’t figure out he was trans for a while, mostly due to being raised by an angel who doesn’t have a gender and his pig friend who doesn’t care (with supplemental help from a half fridge musician and his salmon wife). He always knew that the name Clementine didn’t fit him, though he did love it and much preferred it to being a nameless string of numbers like he used to be.

- He figured it out around the same time as Fundy and his friend Niki (ye i headcanon c!niki as trans for the reason of why not). They all started transitioning around the same time. Tommy very insistently tried to get Niki to choose Clementine as her name. He failed. (Tommy would have been around six or seven, Fundy would have been eleven, and Niki would have been nine)

- Tommy chose his own name, but Wilbur joked it was short for Tomathy and it stuck.

- It’s not too soon after that that the SBI found Tubbo on the side of a road, curled in a sopping wet cardboard box. They learnt through the confused rambling of a child that he was the child of some rich business man, was kidnapped for ransom but escaped, and had been sleeping on the streets for a while. They also found out that he’d named himself (”“Tuberculosis, ‘ts a pretty word, but you c’n call me Tubbo for short!”” the sopping wet seven year old explained proudly, not noticing the barely stifled giggles from Wilbur.) and that he was also transmasc. This isn’t relevant for now but it is important for later sorry.

- When Tommy was nine, he moved from Philza’s isolated cabin far away from danger to the Dream SMP, after being invited. (Tubbo was not, but he snuck in behind Tommy and no one had the heart to kick him out). Of course, soon he was followed by friends and family, and they built a nation and we all know what happens there.

- The L’Manburg war ends when Tommy is ten and peace lasts for two years, so it is when Tommy is twelve, nearly thirteen, that the Pogtopia vs Manburg war begins. Fundy ““accidentally””  does not notice when Tommy steals puberty blockers from him for himself and Tubbo, and definitely does not order more for them (because by this point he’s sixteen and on t already).

- As Tommy grows older, and turns thirteen, and then fourteen, he starts stealing from Fundy’s potion supply of testosterone because this is Minecraft and they totally can make hormone replacement in potions because that’s cool. Tubbo refuses it, scared to be found in possession of some (Schlatt had already found the hormone blockers he’d tried to hide, and slapped him and berated him. Schlatt assumed he was transfemme so it wasn’t as awful as it could be, but it was still pretty traumatic, so Tubbo’d stopped taking them, especially after he saw how Schlatt would misgender and deadname Fundy in private).

- After Nov 16th, Ghostbur potion master extraordinaire brew the hormone potions for Fundy and Tommy. (He’d brew them for Tubbo, too, but the idea was still a bit too much for him, and Tubbo had so much work to do he forgot anyway.)

- Look, I’m all for exile arc angst, okay, but I’m not writing Dream misgendering Tommy during exile. The only person allowed to be transphobic here is Schlatt and that’s because he already canonically is. But uh I’m actually writing a one shot about trans c!Tommy during exile and it’s at 3000+ words and I haven’t mentioned trans stuff in it yet I got too distracted by the angst.

- While Tommy was staying with Technoblade, Techno helped him brew up hormone potions.

- As Tommy sewed up his tattered clothes (with the help of Technoblade, on the days where his hands were too shaken), there was a split in his hoodie where he couldn’t find the right fabric to sew it up and make it look nice so Tommy sewed a trans flag patch over it. (The patch was later damaged through the explosions in Doomsday, and he replaced it with a patch from Tubbo’s old shirt, but Tommy’d totally sew on another trans patch if he had the time.)

- Tommy used to have his hair long as a child, even after he came out, but he cut it off before moving to the SMP, so no one would mistake him for a girl. He really liked it short, but it grew out in exile and he couldn’t be bothered to cut it. When he was with Techno, Technoblade would braid his hair up out of his face and by then Tommy knew no one alive on the SMP would be transphobic and he liked having it braided more than short (it reminds him of Techno and Phil), so he let it grow out again.

- Tommy knew he liked girls before he knew he wasn’t one, asked Wilbur what liking girls called, and Wilbur told him it was lesbian. Tommy didn’t realise that that was what girls who liked girls were called until he was about fourteen and was very confused why people were laughing at him when he called himself a lesbian.

- Tommy’s very insistent on being a Big Man, and insecure in presenting himself in any other way, despite being raised by Philza and Techno, who both don’t know about gender, and Phil’s probably never wore trousers in his life while Techno has a collection of gowns. This comes from when Tommy was little and being babysat by a family friend, Schlatt, who Tommy deeply admired. Schlatt’s... interesting opinions were one of the few contacts Tommy had with gender roles for a while, and Tommy deeply admired Schlatt and thought he was cool, so it influenced him a lot.

- The reason Tommy goes by Tommy Innit instead of his legal last name (Minecraft) is that after Philza asked Tommy for his new name, Tommy went “It’s Tommy, innit?” and began jokingly insisting he meant that it was TommyInnit instead of just Tommy as an injoke.

[lucemferto]

thoughts on the idea that c!techno retiring after nov 16th, having to deal with seeing that violence didn't actually accomplish his goal, and having lost his allies, was a second act low point?

I've seen that reading and I don't think it holds up.

I understand that some people don't like the seasonal dividers and, you know, that's valid, that's their prerogative.

However, I do think that there's still certain narrative arcs free of the seasons. Like, you have The L'Manburg Independence, you have Pogtopia vs. Manburg (from the Election to Nov. 16th) and I think under that reading, Nov 16th. cannot be read as anything other than a climax.

Like, a climax doesn't have to end in a happy ending. Sometimes it leads to a tragic or sad ending. Case in point, Wilbur.

So while I definitely definitely agree that Nov. 16th is a low point for Technoblade it is not the narratological "End of Act II Lowest Point".

Because then his Act III would be the longest, most dynamic Act III I have ever seen. I just don't think that tracks; not with how the rest of his storyline from Nov. 16th to Doomsday is structured.

Because, you know, most times people make that argument in order to reason that Doomsday worked as the climax of his (which, we don't have to get into that, but I think even looked at only as the climax of Techno's arc, Doomsday is pretty weak).

But even under that viewpoint, Techno's end of Act II Lowest Point wouldn't be November 16th. Per the structure of his storyline, it would be Tommy's betrayal during the Green Festival.

That's way closer and works with the other events that took place during Techno's storyline, such as his very prolonged retirement, Hog Hunt and the time he actually spent with Tommy. Just structurally, it makes more sense as the End of Act II Lowest Point.

[transgenbur]

hi can anyone find me the post where someone calculated how much damage doomsday did vs nov. 16th damage (like calculating the tnt & such)

[n3s0]

hi i’m going to discuss the doomsday war streams and overall the conclusion of what i’d consider season 3 of the dream smp because hyperfixation go brrrrr 

(for clarity sake: season 1 is from when l’manberg defects from the dream smp to when wilbur decides to host an election. season 2 is from swag2020 vs pog2020 to the manberg vs pogtopia war on nov 16th. season 3 is from the start of tubbo’s presidency to the jan 6th doomsday war.) 

tldr: i definitely think the cc’s can look on what happened this season and improve greatly. that’s not to say this wasn’t a good season, there are a lot of things they’ve improved since season 1, but there are also things they can improve on in the future. this season was lacking a connecting thread or goal and it made it feel disjointed and left character’s in limbo. a way to fix that could be either scripting the story more strictly, fixing communication problems and/or making the plot into more self contained but slightly overlapping stories.

i think my biggest problem with this season was the fact that it felt so disjointed. one of the best things about the first season is the consistent plot line: l’manberg is trying to win independence. you had eret’s betrayal, dream’s tyranny, wilbur and tommy’s whole dynamic, and an underlying subplot with the disc war, but it all ultimately connected to l’manberg’s fight for independence. it’s what makes the first season so good and that kind of consistent plot is missing in this season. 

even the second season had the main plot of taking back manberg. there was wilbur’s insanity, but that tied back to the elections. there was tension between tubbo and tommy, but it tied back to the elections. even the badlands tied back to bad, ant, skeppy, and sam deciding they’re done with manberg AND pogtopia and deciding to stoke the fire. it all tied back and character’s had weeks to slowly develop with the setting. 

this season you had techno retiring, ghostbur reconciling with fundy, tubbo’s presidency, whatever was going on with schlatt and quackity?, george is king?, el rapid mexican l’manberg that whole thing, tommy’s exile, el rapids fighting dream smp/eret’s kingship?, the butcher army, techno UNretiring and teaming with tommy, tommy using techno to get his discs back, techno using tommy to destroy l’manberg, the prison, the bloodvines, and probably more im forgetting. there was a LOT going on, even techno and wilbur have ooc acknowledged this. and in my opinion it was just too much. character’s weren’t given enough time to develop naturally and the pacing had to go fast enough to fit all the plot into it, leaving little time for the character’s relationships to develop with the plot. 

most notably this is a problem with character’s like niki, fundy, ranboo (though not too bad with his character) and eret. eret had worked hard on a redemption arc and then had to go back to being king because george didn’t want to be involved (then changed his mind which...okay) which really fucked up all of the development he spent a LOT of time on during the second season. niki had to jump from siding with tubbo and tommy against wilbur’s insanity to suddenly tubbo’s president and her character just...can’t know that wilbur is dead for some reason? and now she needs content so she has to scrap together an anti-hero plot for herself. fundy’s works a little better i feel, with his lowkey insanity arc he’s having as of now, but the problem with him is he didn’t get enough lowkey plot moments to show his character’s devolution from neglected to vengeful. ranboo was thrown head first into the plot and while he’s doing an AMAZING job of keeping himself afloat, he just hasn’t had enough time to make his character’s mental decline seem believable, at least to me. not enought has happened to his character for it to work out, due to pacing. all of these character’s are AMAZING concepts but the fact that they feel so inconsistent can be related back to the fact that there really wasn’t any time given to let character’s slowly develop and change, and instead they had to cram all of their character development into the first 30 mins of a plot important stream.

and i will offer a counterargument here of the fact that season 3 is when wilbur’s writing stopped and also was when it really started catching a large audiences’ interest. so naturally more people wanted to be involved and due to the nature of the way this story is told, where each character is an actual CC who needs content and can’t just be a background support character, there HAS to be a lot going on for everyone to get their slice. and i think that’s the ultimate downfall of using this medium to tell a story. you NEED those background characters, the characters that don’t have to be 3 dimensional, the characters that don’t need to be there for everything and get their lines in. so i can’t fault them for having a clunky story when it has to be that way to be fair. 

ultimately i still really enjoy the story, and i hope this doesn’t sound too nitpicky. it’s downfall, of everyone having to be an important character, is also what makes it so good! don’t like the “main character”? go watch someone else, who’s the main character of their own POV of the story. every single character is incredibly complex and has their own unique set of motivations, goals, and traits. it works really well with the running theme of history, and how not only does it repeat itself through miscommunication and ignorance but also how the opinion on events changes from who’s telling the story. the fact that you can tell every CC genuinely cares about their character also really does show in the acting and writing and just everything about the server and story. the flaws of the story are very easy to look over because of just how much time and care all of them put into this server and it really helps the story. an okay story written by passionate people with always be better than an amazing one written by apathetic storywriters; and the smp’s story is definitely more than just okay, at least to me. 

i didn’t want to write this just to complain and then offer no solution, so i do have a few ideas on how i’d like to see this fixed or at least improved. they actually already somewhat do this, but i feel like they could start breaking up the plot more. similarly to how there was the bloodvines plot going on at the same time as tommy’s exile plot, i feel like they could take a chunk of say 5-10 members and they each have their semi-contained plot. especially with l’manberg now destroyed, the thing that way tying a lot of the members together, it would be easier to do this. there can be connecting threads through the stories, like how tubbo and fundy would see the bloodvines or bad would visit tommy in exile, but ultimately not every character has to be involved in everyone else’s story. 

say you have tubbo, tommy, quackity, fundy, ghostbur, and dream for one plot of trying to get the discs back and making dream revive ghostbur. at the same time you can have techno, phil, ranboo, dream, and sam dealing with the prison and techno or someone being put in the prison with dream manipulating ranboo through his memories. bad, ant, sam, puffy, and skeppy can continue with the egg. eret, fundy, niki, and ghostbur work through the trauma they’ve gained from everything with l’manberg and their interpersonal relationships. similarly to how karl is doing the tales of the SMP right now, these storylines are self contained but characters can overlap and therefore so can relationships. 

my other solution would honestly be to just work on the seemingly lack of communication. make sure everyone is getting the content they need (with people having to understand that not everyone is going to get the animatic worthy lines every stream, and not everyone gets to play a huge part in each event.) however this entails having a much more concrete script, which highkey removes the charm of the smp. it also means that inevitably someone is going to not be getting good content, or content at all, and that’s not fun or good for anyone. ultimately i’d like to see an improvement on the communication for the plot (niki feeling excluded, george and eret not being told about important events, communicating when people are trying to have genuine canon important speeches and not BMing them (cough cough tubbo at niki about her taxes cough cough techno during tubbo and tommys reunion)) and that doesn’t necessarily have to mean a fully fleshed out script. 

in the end, what everyone on this server has managed to do with this storyline is something that’s genuinely impacted me! it’s opened my eyes to new ways stories can be told and this fandom is the first big one i’ve been in since probably fucking voltron or homestuck in the mid-2010s. i love what the CCs have managed to do, and while i think this was a healthy amount of criticism for the story i in no way want to demean just how much passion and effort the CCs put into this server. none of these people are professional story writers or actors so the amount of talent we’ve seen is astonishing. this is simply me expressing what i think the problems are, because every story has problems, especially one that’s being made with such a unique medium like improv roleplay streaming. if you have anything you wanna add please feel free to add to this post or reply! i’d love to see :) thank you for reading if you made it this far lmao

[captain-lonagan]

#dsmp#dream smp#smthing abt how nlm was still able to rebuild and reach for a home again (as shaky as it was) vs doomsday leaving the place uninhabitable👍#because the last one wasn't self destruction with collateral it was Specifically made to break everyones spirit#going after ghostbur library which had documented so fucking much saved So much and then disregarding him bawling his eyes out abt it#techno legit shooting rockets at tommy (with tubbo jumping in front of him to take the blasts 😁👍)#the explosives grid that lasted numerous fucking days and hit bedrock like. lol#it was very purposefully a display of power to show their 'opposition' that they will never be strong enough#they will never be able to fight back they will never have anything that they can't take away and they were stupid for even trying#and their 'opposition' were a bunch of kids and people who just wanted a safe place to call a home like ‼️‼️‼️‼️ AWESOME 👌 👏 👍 

tumblr user sunnydice may your power grow every day. nov 16th explosion was about c!wilbur destroying himself (and he at least partly viewed l’manberg as himself so it had to go too). but l’manberg wasn’t just himself and the damage was surface enough that they were able to rebuild. there was enough of everyone else to fill the crater and make it a lake that people could ice skate on in winter. doomsday was about eradicating the town, salt and burn, etc. nov 16th was c!wilbur destroying himself, doomsday was about destroying l’manberg until even it’s foundations were dust.

the l’manberg crater is actually a sicknasty place to build a house or town and it really speaks to how much fuckin psychic damage doomsday did that nobody builds anywhere near it now. like that place is Rubble in the mind. maybe overgrown rubble, but no players can live near it now.