#or when characters/pieces of plot get fundamentally changed but everyone still uses the same tags

[casscainturnedmegay]

oh the blessing and the curse of having a good film adaptation of a fandom you love

[highladyluck]

Here, have 4.5 pages of rambly Tuon meta. I wrote this to try to get a handle on Tuon’s character, and to develop the theoretical framework for a redemption arc for her. I’m hoping posting this doesn’t cut my motivation to actually write it...

Who is Tuon? Tuon Athaem Kore Paendrag, High Lady, Daughter of the Nine Moons; now the Empress of Seanchan (at least on the westlands side), Fortuona Athaem Kore Paendrag. To borrow some phrasing and framing from @websandwhiskers: She’s the pinnacle of Seanchan culture and an extremely functional tool of the state; responsible (both personally and institutionally) for psychologically and physically torturing people and enslaving them; she also has some compelling moral and personal qualities that she and the state have not yet managed to quash, which kind of makes it all worse, ethically speaking. She’s a villain whom the original narrative neither sufficiently condemns nor sufficiently redeems, married to one of the Big Damn Heroes in a match that’s both very odd couple and very complementary.

She respects people who stand up to her, as long as they aren't 'disrespectful' in the process- and the 'disrespect' is very situational, she'll accept things in private or in non-court settings that she can't let slide in court without losing face and therefore power. She cares very much about the legitimacy of authority, because it correlates positively with stability and is ingrained in her self-image, but she has an autocrat’s idea of what is legitimate. She assumes you know your own self-worth in relation to hers and are prepared to both display it and back it up. She has also internalized that other people's challenges of her are opportunities for her to prove her strength and fitness to rule, and she probably low-key seeks to provoke reactions now as validation/training, for herself and others.

She has rigid moral standards within the context she was raised in, and punishes herself first for perceived failure because if she does it first, perhaps she can avoid someone else doing it, with deadlier results. She has never been allowed to be less than perfect by her culture's standards- she can be (and has been) odd, but she cannot be flawed- and possibly expends all of her natural empathy on others instead of herself, because she can't afford that kind of indulgence herself, but she knows she owes it to lesser beings?

And as @websandwhiskers pointed out, she does have a lot of empathy within allowable contexts, and I think she is willing to push the envelope compared to her peers as long as she/the empire isn't directly threatened. That's what the kiss after Mat let the poisonous snake go was about. The snake was poisonous but not attacking, and not likely to attack unless someone escalated the situation, and Mat deescalated it. No harm, no foul. Mat responded to a fraught situation both logically and mercifully, in the way she imagined she would have if she had been in his shoes and known he same facts he did, and she rewarded him.

She’s competent and charismatic; I hesitate to say that she inspires loyalty in underlings because honestly with the damane it’s brainwashing (eurgh). But Selucia and Karede are both really into her, personally, even when there are societal inducements not to play favorites. Mat is loyal to her, though honestly Mat is loyal to like... anyone he’s responsible for, so maybe it’s more relevant to say that Mat genuinely likes her; at least, he likes the person he thinks he can coax out of her, and in terms of the persona she has more typically, I think he responds well to her competency and self-possession. The ability to project those things is probably a big part of what goes into charisma.

She thinks that the people who oppose her just don't have all the facts. She doesn't like to admit she's changed her mind; it looks like weakness; she's fine identifying it in others but not herself. Ideally she would pretend things have always been the way she now knows they are, and if she can't, she goes for the "Yes [fact], but [here's what I've decided is now germane to the argument at hand]." redefinition of the problem. She always thinks she’s right, though she does tend to leave some space between when she’s decided something and when she promulgates the decision, to allow for opposing arguments.

I think the original relationship Tuon has with omens is that she uses them to look for external justification from the universe for decisions she's already made. (I mostly like Sanderson's Tuon POVs, but I also I think Sanderson sometimes used omens as a 'make Tuon do OOC things for the plot' card.) Tuon's running dialogue with omens also shows that she's always observing the world and interpreting her effect on it and its effect on her. She loses her composure with omens when they are more concrete and less subject to her control (via interpretation), as with Lidya's fortune.

It makes sense that she's super controlling. It was how she was raised, and aside from having loyal/brainwashed companions (who are, themselves, a form of distributed control), being controlling is obviously the only thing that makes her feel safe. It's still interesting how it extends into a dialogue with the Pattern itself. Like Mat, she wants to survive and she wants to go her own way, and also like Mat she's caught up in the Pattern a little more tightly than others. I think she and Mat have both subconsciously decided that the only way to deal with what the universe wants you to do, when the universe is that powerful, is to say "Fine, I didn't really want to do that other thing anyway, let's learn how this path works and play to win."

She knows she makes bad decisions when angry, and I think in general she distrusts strong emotions, or at least tries to hold them at arms' length so they don't form part of her judgment. She's very very good at compartmentalizing, but as a result sometimes emotional stuff will come up and blindside her a little because she doesn't prioritize it or see it as a natural part of her decision-making. I think her emotions do influence her, usually subconsciously, but she's obviously a Thinking type. (Mat is also a compartmentalizer, but more somatic/emotionally focused; he's got his feelings directly wired into his body and together they make decisions that his brain then evaluates a second later, with running commentary that he never expresses to anyone else. They are both comedically un-self-aware, although Tuon is even less self-aware than Mat is, since at least on some level Mat knows he's been repeatedly traumatized even if he tries to pretend he isn't, while Tuon still thinks that her childhood was completely fine.)

Within the original narrative, I think her POVs are always a bit mysterious and her actions are always a little surprising. What’s impressive about that is that this is basically *always* true no matter what setting she’s in and what she’s doing. When you’re in her head you see her thought process ticking away, but RJ and Sanderson both have her constantly withholding important contextual details in her POVs, like Lidya’s prophecy (the hints are there and come out in bits and pieces, but she doesn’t reveal everything and slot it into context until 2 books later). Like with reading Mat, you’re aware that she obviously has reasons for what she’s doing and you even see her decision-making process, but because you’re missing the details, she remains opaque even though you’re in her head. (Mat’s decision-making process is more clear to the reader, but somewhat opaque to himself and definitely opaque to those around him.)

Meanwhile the things Tuon does share via narration or via action are always kind of buck-wild for the reader because her entire deal is such a culture shock. She’s obviously surprising Mat & co, but what’s weird is that she also seems to be constantly surprising her fellow Seanchan. Her scenes with her peers are usually punctuated with shocked murmuring in the background. They have trouble anticipating her, both because she keeps her cards close to her chest, and I also think because she’s a slightly different person from the one who lived her entire life in a cloistered murdersphere in Seanchan, and if she wasn’t a different person after leaving home, she’s definitely one after her kidnapping. But I think she is a fundamentally different person after leaving home, because of the structural parallels she has with Mat.

In Mat’s first POV chapter, he wakes up in Tar Valon with partial amnesia and a much stronger sense of self-preservation than he had before. As everybodyhatesrand points out (crediting but not tagging them since I feel like they wouldn’t appreciate being tagged in Tuon apologia), we have never been in pre-dagger!Mat’s head. We have never been in dagger!Mat’s head. Everyone in the books, throughout the books, is like “At least Mat’s still the same!” and yeah, he does do and say more or less the same things before and after the dagger. But we had to take it on faith that his personality is more or less intact pre- and post-dagger because we, the readers, only know post-dagger!Mat’s inner monologues. The Mat we inhabit in book 3? He’s been broken. The continuity between his old life and his new life has been disrupted (and will continue to be disrupted, including with an actual literal timeline reboot!) He immediately starts off to fix himself, others, and then eventually the world, so it’s motivating, but the hits really just keep coming...

Like Mat, Tuon’s first POV only appears after she’s left the traumatic environment that shaped her. We don’t know what travelling across the sea did to her sense of self (and we can’t really know since we don’t have that in-Seanchan-baseline), though we do know she’s changed after travelling with Mat (aside from catching feelings, I think she learned that the Seanchan are not always in possession of all the facts), and we know what becoming Empress did to her (she doubled down on duty and lost a lot of personal flexibility). I think there are major structural parallels between Mat and Tuon’s POVs because they’re both broken people who try their very best to act as if they are not broken. In Tuon’s case I think she just doesn’t know how broken she is. In Mat’s case, he knows, but he’s doing a weird balancing act of integrating lessons learned (healing!) while also, like, frantically trying to ignore or drown out the emotional cost of trauma (not healing!)

By the end of the series I think Tuon knows, but is not letting herself actually think, that being made damane is a) a real possibility for her, specifically, and b) that it is not, in fact, something she would willingly choose for herself even to serve the empire. I think this is different from the more intellectual disgust of the idea of herself channeling; that's abstract, and she imagines there's an actual choice for the person with the spark between channeling and not channeling, or possibly that there's an actual choice between learning to channel vs not learning to channel if you have the spark inborn. (We know that the actual choice if you have the spark is 'learn to channel properly or die'.) Tuon's out there like "If I were a marath'damane I would simply choose not to channel. RIP to marath'damane but I'm different".

She's never been a marath'damane in the sense of someone who started channeling involuntarily, and isn't interested in imagining herself as one, at least not when confronted by someone who is succeeding in making her angry. So even if you made her choose, as a theoretical marath'damane, between dying and learning to channel properly, I think she'd consider 'learning to channel properly' as 'becoming a murderer' and therefore the choice would be between dying and becoming a murderer. There's a clear argument to be made in that idiom that the marath'damane is 'becoming a murderer' in self-defense, which would have a different moral tenor (manslaughter vs murder). But Tuon strikes me as the type to say in an argument (and probably believe) that "The end result is the same & I would die before compromising my principles.”

I think in the confrontation with Egwene she probably internally justified not putting the collar on because there was a Seanchan audience and because the taunt came from an escaped damane, even though the actual reason was fear that it would work. She’s letting the circumstances invalidate the argument so she doesn’t have to think about it. I think if she were to let herself think about the authentic emotional response- and she probably has, I feel like she does a postmortem on all of her public discomposure- she would consciously know that her instinct was that it would work on her, and furthermore she would know that she does not want to be damane, even if the Empire would require her to be.

If she followed out the chain of reasoning, she’d know that if she were a damane, if she were actually leashed, she would be forced to channel. She’d know because she’s taken great pleasure in training and breaking damane, and she knows how to get damane to channel and how to break them. Therefore, if she were damane, she would know that she would need to be broken, and she knows how she would go about breaking herself. She probably thinks that her last act of free will would be to suicide if she possibly could. But I think that what she’s AFRAID OF is that she would actually convince herself that being the very best damane is all she wants out of life. And that's the scary, universe-ending thought she's avoiding the consequences of, because a) it’s about breaking herself (as Cadsuane points out, no one can easily think about breaking themselves) and b) the fact that she would need to be broken and that she doesn’t like the idea is a sign that she’s not the perfect avatar of the Empire that she thinks she should be.

I think becoming damane has been added- in the bare abstract- to her mental list of the price of failure. It's a very fundamental loss of control and identity, where all she has is resignation and brainwashing that- best case scenario- she does to herself. She's scared of it in a way she was not before, now that it's been made personal. Like Mat, she's going to shove that down deep and ignore the bad scary implications as long as she can, up until the point that they actually disable her or otherwise bleed out into her intellectual or physical world in ways that aren't as ignorable.

But while Tuon thinks she would die before compromising her principles, and even more secretly is extremely afraid that she *wouldn't*, I also think that like Mat, if it came down to it she would transform herself radically to survive *as herself*.

She’d realize that she has other principles, more human ones, underlying her socially acceptable and externally imposed principles of enforcing hierarchy and maintaining personal integrity. (Parallels to dagger!Mat being exorcised?) I think her basic motivations are that she should survive, that she should retain as much control/power over her own fate as possible, and that she should make decisions from a place of empathy rather than anger or fear. I think she would also realize that she does in fact value some principles over others. She would redefine the meaning of ‘personal integrity’ to separate it from what the state wants.

If she knew what was really driving her socially acceptable principles, and that there was a difference between what she really, fundamentally wanted & what she had been told to want, with encouragement she could prioritize the organic, primal ones and apply those to the external world. If she is a person, then everyone else is a person, and she should want for them what she wants for herself. I think she might get to the point of realizing there is an alternative path (of what looks like selfishness) but I don't think she's going to let herself be selfish (in this healing, positive way) without external prompting/confirmation, so this is probably where friends, positive role models, and finally omens come in.

[diabolikmosquito]

Just-Watched Thoughts on S3

Alright time to write this while I’m still here recovering so I can go to bed already. I might add more/clean this up once I get some proper sleep. Tagging it but putting Castlevania Season 3 spoilers under a cut just in case people haven’t got tags hidden and such. Here goes-

Overall I’m honestly just kinda shocked? I think it’s because a lot of things were easy to predict (that the cult might be trying to bring back Dracula, something was up with the Judge, Hector was obviously gonna fall for Lenore’s bs, etc.) so when things happened I didn’t see from a mile away.. 

When I was only like an episode or two in, things actually felt a little stunted to me? Something about it felt like “This is what people liked from before, right??” particularly with certain action or such, but I feel like it picked up pretty quickly from that. I’m still kinda in winding-down-emotions mode so I can’t really definitively say what storylines I liked and which ones I disliked for the most part. I liked Isaac’s, and the design of the... Hivemind Magician? Was all pretty sick. It felt like the first thing that was actually a massive challenge for him, and nearly overtook him, but he overcame it and even came out of it thinking through what he wanted for the future. It’s a nice change from seeing him steamroll anything that came his way. 

I like that Trevor and Sypha’s storyline ends up with them not getting their heroic grand time like they did last time. Yes, there were sacrifices made, but before it still felt grandiose: they’d worked together to kill Dracula, something the world didn’t even think possible for the most part. This time, they sacrificed a lot more and ultimately didn’t win a thing other than their own lives, and were helping a hidden monster in their process of killing other monsters. What a crushing thing for them to have to go through, and I think Trevor’s conversation with himself before (and later with said monster, ironically enough) about missing parts of his old non-heroic non-adventuring life was pretty somber and interesting. 

The whole Lenore/Hector route was exactly what’s expected from the beginning, but it was done well for what it was, and I don’t think they were trying to fool anyone with the direction it was headed. Carmilla’s plot was.. eh, more or less not much seemed to actually happen, but it did introduce us to the awesome vampire sisters so I’m more than down with it. I wish we got a little more about Saint Germain’s whole deal with that portal and such, who he was looking for and how he knows they’re still alive in there, but I assume that’s a next-season kind of thing. I’m gonna ramble if I write anymore so here’s a more concise/clear list:

Things I liked -  Trevor and Sypha’s chemistry! I thought it was good the first couple seasons (which apparently puts me in the minority?) but they felt much more compatible as a couple this time around. The little exchange about the “taste for rougher things in life” is wonderful, and I definitely snorted when she sleep-bapped him in the face. - The tidbits of funny dialogue! Seems to still be a show specialty. Some of them were understandably a bit funny (using “Nope! speedwalks away” in place of “shut it” is pretty good), and others weren’t funny but I just found it hilarious (e.g. Morana’s repeated fancily-stated things that boiled down to “... Lenore, seriously, TMI”) - The soundtrack! Not really any surprise, despite it not being the famous Symphony of the Night tracks people clamored for trust me I totally get that and despite it still not being released even from season 2 much less 3,  it was very nice to listen to.  - The vampire sisters! While it was obvious from the beginning Lenore was the “cutest/nonthreateningest-looking of the scary bunch but actually the scariest” one I liked the energy they all had, especially Striga and Morana and their relationship. I liked that we got to see Carmilla’s attitude bouncing off of other vampires who (while respecting her skill) also called her out for it from time to time. - The references! I’m sure there’s more and I’m a dumbass who only spots the obvious ones, but... the fact there’s demons that’re exactly ones out of the ol’ Symphony of the Night game again, like the Malachi and Fire Demon. It’s so dumb but I love shit like that, especially since they obviously stray far from the game canon and don’t have to do that but do it anyway. - Some of the action scenes. I cannot mention what I like without mentioning the parts that made me go “... Okay, yeah, that was badass.” You know the ones! When Cho busted that sword with her hands, when Sypha chopped that angel-like demon into pieces. ... A lot of the stuff Sypha did, actually, I’m glad she got some more epic moments to kick ass this season. I thought the earlier action scenes of the season were just alright, but by the last fight it was definitely starting to feel like that awesome dynamic fight style we saw in season 2. - The fact Dracula saw an opportunity to return and didn’t want to. Not much to say here other than the obvious - I feel like that’s extremely fitting, and I’m glad they made it clear without bringing him back and having him be angry/regret it or something like that. Without any dialogue, even. - The ending.. somewhat. It destroyed me a little on the inside, but I actually like that nobody really had a happy ending. Particularly if there could be another season, it feels really fitting. I’ve seen some people complaining “They ended up where they started! Trevor and Sypha are back on the road, Isaac’s traveling with his army, Alucard’s alone in the castle and Hector is a slave” but I couldn’t disagree more. Of course if you boil it down to the words themselves, it’s “the same,” but did ya see the sheer trauma literally everyone was put through? Obviously some had it worse than others (and we’ll fucking get to that) but nobody came out unscathed. Everyone’s now had some belief challenged or retreated further into a fear/mistrust that already existed - previous events planted the seed for it and the hell the cast went through gave it growth. 

Trevor and Sypha are going to have to challenge their goal they’d been following since working together/getting together: they can’t just go headlong adventuring and fixing people’s problems, because things like this can happen. Their new allies and the entire town were slaughtered or trapped somewhere, and the man they’d trusted and been helping this entire time was a serial killer, particularly of children. Alucard is drifting into a state of consciousness not unlike his father before he met Lisa, but potentially in a worse place since he’s witnessed and felt true kindness, but has retreated away from it even so due to the betrayal he’s suffered at an already-fragile time for him. Isaac has to reconsider what he’s going to do once he has his proper army, and even if it’s worth it to get his revenge or to carry out Dracula’s original plans. Saint Germain.. I mean, he’s in psychodelic hell searching for that person and presumably a way out, I assume it’s tragic. Hector’s learned a hard lesson in trusting and is going to have to figure out if his freedom is worth risking pain or death. Likewise I think the characters grow this way. Even if it was a happy ending, or an ending where everyone “wins” some small victory somehow, I think it’d ultimately have been worthless if nobody was fundamentally changed by the end of the season.

Things I didn’t like - The sex scenes. I’ve seen a lot of people like “If you’re gonna put in gratuitous sex then actually include Trevor and Sypha??” and I’m gonna have to disagree with that. While I love the ship and all, I’d like to give the benefit of the doubt and say sex scenes weren’t thrown around randomly or just to flex the rating - they were only tied to actual story, hence why I’m down with the bedroom stuff of the show’s main ship only being alluded to. However, I gotta say that the long broken-up sex scenes mixed with battle/action was not the way to do that. I think I know what they were going for (it definitely drove my anxiety up having those scenes back to back with intense action/violence, I can tell ya that!), but it just wasn’t a good idea. Yes, they were obviously made to be uncomfortable (particularly since I’m pretty sure one of them was dubious consent at best?) but that was reflected well just in a few key frames/actions - it didn’t need to be drawn out and mixed with the action. It made me want to skip through (I didn’t out of fear I’d miss battles, which isn’t really good design) and I’d like to bet parts of the finale are unwatchable for some. For the record, yes you could say “well they got into an adult-rated show, deal with it,” but the fact of the matter is up until now sexual violence/discomfort wasn’t heavy-handed and in-your-face like this. Non-sexual violence was definitely all over the whole series, but it’s still a bit like whiplash considering. Also, the fact people think the scene with Alucard was at all chill. I see it from a story standpoint (though I honestly think their motivations were weak and there’s other ways to betray someone/get their guard down), but I think the people going on about “power bottom” and this and that are forgetting that the absence of a no is not a yes, particularly with someone severely emotionally damaged after spending months alone not only without a support group but without any contact, immediately following the death of his father by his own hands. I’m no expert but I don’t think that’s someone in the proper state of mind to consent to anything sexual, even if there were a couple weeks or whatever of spending time with these new friends. He very well might’ve been on the way to a stress disorder before they turned his world upside-down and frankly I’m wondering how he’s going to be faring come the next season (assuming there is one.) That’s more of a fandom gripe than the show itself I suppose but it’s worth a mention. - The pacing. It’s hard to pinpoint it, but something about it felt off, especially in the first half. The best way I can describe it is when you pump the gas and brakes because your brakes aren’t working great and you’re loosening them up - maybe it was necessary to get things going, but it’s a bit destabilizing/odd for anyone in the car. I think it’s what contributed to that stunted sense I got until things picked up a little more. You can see it more in just how packed with stuff the latter half is, some things which could’ve been planned a bit better through the whole season. - Sumi and Taka. I honestly felt that they wanted to get in a way to have a punch-in-the-gut arc with Alucard (not a bad idea, I am one for tragedy), wanted to kill off some characters who were actually important, and decided to do these both with one stone. I don’t think they were successful on the second part, because these two absolutely contributed to the stunted feeling I had about some of the season. They had a good start in terms of backstory, and the idea of two people working together to fight vampires without having some big legend tied to their name to drive it (e.g. Speaker magicians, Belmont legacy, Alucard’s heritage), as well as a connection to/fleshing out of one of the nameless generals, sounded like a great concept. A great concept, but it was rushed I felt, to the point that their motivations for turning on him were so packed and squished in they just weren’t believable if we’re supposed to believe these two were sane. They had some sort of mental/trust issues due to their backstory - that’s fine, and could contribute some emotional problems. However if their distrust in Alucard had been given more time to fester and grow, more little comments of Alucard’s brushing off their attempts to learn about specific things, and more cues from him that could be misinterpreted by them as him causing trouble and lying (not just them not believing him by itself), it would be more believable that the past and misinterpretations of the present get into their head and poison their thoughts of him. You can plant a seed of doubt but just like any other character bonds, it has to be given time to grow. Alucard’s rapid bonding with them could be attributed to his loneliness, trauma, and need for a support system, but you can’t make that excuse for Sumi and Taka’s motivations going from “Hm.. I wonder what he isn’t telling us” to “We need to emotionally gut him and then kill him” basically overnight. Edit:

I forgot to add a conclusion last night, so I guess the TL;DR is season 3’s a good 7.5/10 for me, -1 for the overall pacing, -1 for missing a bit of the punch from before, and -0.5 because the last few episodes jumped me with a bat and I let it happen.

[velkynkarma]

Okay. So. I’ve had some time to come down off the mind-is-screaming-internally S2 high and think about a lot of stuff that I saw on my first playthrough. I still intend to go through and re-watch more closely for details. And I have NOT hit that level of ‘instantly knowing when and where scenes and tiny minuscule important details happen’ yet like I have for S1, so some thoughts might be jumbled or more explainable on a second pass. But for now, my reactions, my pros, my cons, my thoughts, and whether or not I’ll still be writing for this series.

Buckle up ‘cause like everything else I write this is gonna get long.

So as I mentioned last night, there were things I liked about this season, and there were things I didn’t. Let’s start with those. PROS:

Everyone gets a moment of sheer badassery. Everyone. Both in their Lion and on their own. Shiro’s combat scenes, Keith’s fights, Lance’s sharpshooting, Allura’s staff fight, I mean the list goes on.

One of my favorites was Hunk when mind controlled, though. Because holy crap—did you see how brutal he was when he had no inhibitions holding him back? He went to town and he messed Lance up pretty good. This says quite a lot about his character that I thought was really interesting. Hunk has has a lot of combat ability and potential, but he holds himself back, partly out of anxiety or that he doesn’t really believe he can do it, and partly because he doesn’t prefer the fighting method when there are other options. Hunk can absolutely fuck you up if he really wants to. He chooses not to. That’s big.

In general, just...absolutely gorgeous fight scenes. The choreography and movement of the characters was superb. As someone who studied animation I was blown away. Beautiful work.

All the Lions got an upgrade of some kind, some kind of special weapon. It kind of bothered me in S1 when the Red Lion got its giant super-gun at the last minute because it felt kind of deus ex machina, but I am glad at least that it’s become more established this is a thing all the Lions can do as long as you connect with them enough.

The Black Bayard has been recovered. Hell. Fucking. Yes.

There were just so many great character interactions and bonding moments. I love that we had a variety of different team-ups to see how different characters interacted with each other, especially in cases where they hadn’t previously. Hunk and Keith, Lance and Pidge, Lance and Shiro, Keith and Shiro, Lance and Hunk...just a lot of great interactions

There were so many “what the actual fuck am I watching” moments for me but I was laughing through all of them, so no complaints there. (Space mall. Just. Space. Mall).

Lots of moments when I laughed out loud or grinned wildly

Shiro losing his fucking cool because he’s human, yeah, I like seeing that haha

Slav. I just. As a person with obsessive compulsive disorder I related with this guy on a fundamental level. I’m not quite as bad as Slav is but man do I get what it’s like to have to do really stupid shit to just progress on a day to day level. (Also, he’s funny).

Zarkon and Haggar’s relationship was explored a lot more, which I really found interesting. In S1 they were a well-oiled machine and worked together perfectly. They also clearly trusted each other. S2 changed that up with Zarkon’s Lion obsession and Haggar wanting to focus on the internal spy and finishing off Allura. I’m curious to see where this will go and if it will form a rift.

Also: Haggar can be tricked. Her magic is not infallible. I suspect the Blade of Marmora has a technique or something to resist druid magic, otherwise they’d have been hardcore fucked centuries ago, but I find this intriguing all the same.

Blade of Marmora: “Come unarmed.” Haha but okay unless you literally disarm Shiro you can’t disarm Shiro and they know that so I’m genuinely surprised they didn’t throw more of a hissy fit over this one.

Not gonna lie I actually really liked the design of Zarkon’s armor-mech. Almost more than Voltron. Dem wings, man. Dem wings. Also, on that note, why the heck does he even need Voltron or the black lion when he’s got his own single-person mech that he can control without having to recruit four other people to work with him?

They basically confirmed false memories are entirely possible for Shiro since Hunk gives us a breakdown of how that arm actually works a little better. The Blade of Marmora may have been real but there is still so much fic potential here I’m foaming at the mouth over it.

CONS:

I’ve got a few cons, but well, let’s get the big one out of the way first. Galra Keith. (And since I know this can be a controversial topic and my feelings on this one are complicated, let me first preface this with an assurance that I have zero shade towards anyone who liked the Galra!Keith theory in S1 or likes the canonization of it in S2. This is just my opinion and in no way does it invalidate yours).

Okay, unpopular opinion time: I’ve never really been on board with the Galra!Keith theory (which I guess is no longer a theory, but yeah). I’ve never really made a big deal of it though because frankly it’s not my place to lecture others on what they want to like or not. I mean, hey, it’s fandom. Like what you like, just don’t cram it in my face. I was content to ignore Galra!Keith tags and go about my business. But the reason I was never really fond of the theory is I could never make it work, with the details presented in S1. And lord knows I tried, anyone who knows me at this point knows I love theorizing and analyzing this stuff. But it just felt so circumstantial. Most of the “evidence” people would point out in S1 could have supported a dozen different kinds of theories. The only real unexplained piece was Keith’s inexplicable draw to the Blue Lion at the beginning, but even then, I didn’t consider this an immediate indication of Galra blood per se. The show also has magic in it, after all; he could have also had some kind of sixth sense or other ability. It just wasn’t enough to go on. And above all I simply could not reconcile any kind of Galra presence on Earth when in S1 they were fully presented as devourers and conquerors. There was no way Zarkon could have known about Earth, especially if the Blue Lion was also on his radar, and not shown up to just take what he wanted and blast it out of orbit. Zarkon takes. He doesn’t have patience for stealth and subtlety when he owns half of the known universe, and I couldn’t see him having a single soldier on Earth without immediately taking advantage of it. Whether that was Keith, or some parent/ancestor of his, didn’t really matter. It just didn’t mesh with Zarkon.

S2 drops a few new details that flesh this out a little better. The existence of a stealth-oriented resistance certainly would justify how some Galra individuals could theoretically have been to Earth without immediately summoning a full fleet to blow it out of space. If they knew the Blue Lion was there they might even have a reason to target Earth specifically, if only to keep it hidden for as long as possible. I am mollified by this, at least, since it does provide some possible answers to the big plot hole issue I had with this theory. But I don’t know. Galra!Keith still feels too…contrived. Too convenient. It just doesn’t feel natural to me, in a series and plot that has otherwise put a lot of focus on naturally developing story as it goes. Each episode drops details that lead to the next episode, smoothly and subtly, but something about Galra Keith just feels very ham-handed. I’m having a little trouble coming to grips with it. Maybe they’ll drop more information in season 3 that will smooth this out more, but right now I’m just…really not a fan of this piece. On the plus side, while I am not really a fan of Keith having Galra heritage, I do kinda like that most people on the ship are just like ‘oh okay you’re part alien whatever.’ Like it isn’t drawn out into a huge drama spectacle. When it’s first officially revealed only Shiro is actually present and I half expected Keith to beg Shiro not to tell anyone because he’s scared of their reactions, just because they’d want to play up the reveal drama for a few episodes, but there wasn’t any. Everyone just knew. Learned off screen even, other than for Shiro, because there is no scene when Keith comes forward and says ‘hey so yeah, turns out I’m part Galra?’ to the team. And with the exception of Allura, nobody really reacted. Hell, there wasn’t a “reaction episode” like you would have expected with a theme like this. It almost felt underplayed. Or, treated as not-really-that-weird-a-thing, like in Keith and Hunk’s episode together, in which Hunk continually draws attention to the Galra heritage but not really in a hateful way. And I kind of liked that, because while Galra!Keith feels a little on the cliche side, at least that kind of response shook that up a little. And, not gonna lie, on a completely aesthetic reaction, I am just super fucking glad that Keith didn’t like…hulk out Galra style. I’m not a fan of Galra designs in general, I’m glad Keith didn’t just magically turn purple and all that. (Though this really does beg the question of how much his biology is affected by that Galra heritage. We know it’s affected his sixth sense at least somewhat since he appears able to sense and interact with all the Lions, and we know it lets him interact with Galra tech which is…weirdly convenient…but otherwise he looks perfectly human). Anyway. That’s my thoughts on Galra Keith, which was the biggest con for me. The rest are less controversial. OTHER CONS:

Pidge and Lance didn’t get to use their bayards to create new solo weaponry for Voltron. This makes me sad as I really wanted to see Voltron get a badass sniper rifle or a chain-whip thing like Zarkon had. I did like that everyone got to work together to make the super huge-ass sword, but I would’ve liked seeing some new weaponry too.

Thace. I just wasn’t feeling it with this guy. I know we’re supposed to feel sad when he dies, but honestly? They didn’t give us any chance to bond with this character or establish anything to really connect to him with. We see him resisting the Galra and tricking Haggar which is cool and all, but it just kinda felt like he was there. There was no emotion there, no connection. When he makes his heroic sacrifice I didn’t feel any kind of heartache because it was just like ‘oh...that NPC died. Eh, that sucks.’

We only got 1 Shiro flashback. Granted it was a big one, but like Shiro said, I still have so many fucking questions.

Hunk and Lance kinda got a little flanderized. I get that Hunk likes food, and I get that Lance is kind of the obnoxious-hormonal-teenager trope, but I think it got pushed a little too far in some scenes. They also got less development this season than the others, which wouldn’t really bother me as much if it had been fairly even across the board, except it wasn’t. Half the story was about Keith. Look, writers, I know we asked for more character development for Keith because he needed it pretty bad, but whipping it to the other extreme end of the spectrum wasn’t quite the solution?

The Red Lion’s abrupt change in attitude just seems…strange to me. I’m not sure how I feel about it. This is a Lion that you really have to work to get to like you and it’s ‘very unstable.’ It’s rather abrupt about face to the point when it just randomly keeps rescuing Keith was…well. The first time was awesome, but after a while it kinda felt overused. *flat sarcastic voice* “Oh boy. Keith is in trouble. I wonder how he’ll get out of this one.” On the other hand, I almost wonder if this is in part a reaction to Keith piloting the Black Lion, if only for a short while. I wonder if Red is trying to do the same thing right back—prove itself to its partner? I don’t know. I’m conflicted on this one. But to me it lacked subtlety in the same vein as Keith’s story.

That cliffhanger. Just. That cliffhanger.

RANDOM THOUGHTS, QUESTIONS, AND WISHLIST ITEMS

Okay. The final plan. Cool and all, but like...the fuck didn’t they just wormhole Zarkon’s ship into a sun or black hole? Like. C’mon. Even corrupted-Alfor-thoughts thought of that plan. They didn’t even have to re-imagine it. They had precedence. They were ultimately planning to destroy the ship anyway, and at the time they made their plan they hadn’t even considered trying to recover the black bayard, which were the only things they’d lose. They could have saved so much hassle. (The answer is of course that there wouldn’t be much of a show after that, but still).

As stated I’m not really a huge fan of Galra Keith but man, if I am being asked to accept this as canon, I fucking demand that he gets to dual-wield his Blade of Marmora with the Red Bayard. Because we already know he’s ambidextrous in with his sword. And that would be too fucking cool.

Okay so Matt’s not a prisoner anymore. He got rescued by rebels or something. Cool. Uh. Where’s the love for Sam Holt though? Where the fuck is Pidge’s dad? Please tell me somebody rescued him too? The man just wanted to find existence of life outside Earth he didn’t sign up to be a fucking war prisoner give the guy a break.

Also I kind of laughed when Shiro was all “hey Pidge don’t worry it’s okay Matt’s a survivor like you” because this is literally the same guy who was like “yeah Matt you gonna die unless I fight this guy for you since you have zero combat survival capability and both of us know you’ll be dead in like ten seconds.” And now he’s with rebels. Escaping. In a violent situation. I wonder how that’ll work.  

They were really pushing Multiverse theory in this season and I find that very intriguing. I wonder if anything will come of that.

Okay but the presence of a human-themed shop on a random space mall really both intrigues and puzzles me. ‘Cause this means there are regular visitors to Earth, or at least people know about it outside our solar system, when previously it sounded like we were in the space boonies and no one had ever heard of us (which is why it was a great place to hide a Lion). Earth obviously did not have robust inter-planetary trading since the Kerberos mission was all about discovering life outside Earth, and Lance thinks Pidge is crazy for believing in aliens waaaay back in S1Ep1. So. What gives? How?

The insane animation style change happened again for Shiro using his bayard and then everyone screaming. I guess they have a 1-pivotal-moment-per-season rule with that.

So we knew Altean Haggar was coming, that one just seemed kinda obvious. What I actually find more intriguing is that Haggar’s hair is white. Now granted we only have a few Alteans to work off of (Alfor, Allura, Coran, and now Haggar), but Coran has repeatedly implied Allura has extra abilities and has referred to her (or other Alteans who did the Balmera ceremony) as “sacred Alteans.” Presumably, this is something linked to the royal line, and so far every royal Altean we’ve seen has had white hair. I’m wondering if Haggar is a relative. Of course, this is all circumstantial evidence and pure conjecture. It’s also possible that hair color can be shapeshifted, or white hair isn’t associated with the royal line, or a dozen other things. I’m not holding my breath, but I am curious how Haggar fits into the planet destruction.

Overall I did like the theme they were going for this season, which is that your blood does not define you or decide what “side” you’re on. We had some good Galra (or just neutral ones, like the restaurant owner, or ones that just did not fit the ‘cull the weak, be the best warrior’ mentality we were largely led to believe the Galra were in S1). And we have Bad Alteans, although honestly I’m sure everyone saw that coming already.

I feel like there were a LOT of subtle nods to or jabs at the fandom in S2 too. Lots of theories came true of course, but there was also a lot of dialogue that seemed to deliberately poke fun at some theories or fan favorites. Sometimes it was funny and sometimes it felt kind of insulting or trollish. But this is hardly a surprise, I guess, considering how much they played with us right before S2 dropped.

ON WRITING:

So am I still planning on writing for Voltron? Well. I’d like to. I liked the majority of this season, it was fun, my heart was pounding through most of it, and it left my mind a screaming wreck by the end. It was intense. But it was mostly good. I enjoyed it. There are a few problems I need to figure out though.

Galra Keith is probably the biggest wrench in my fic-writing plans at the moment. I’m not…really sure how to process this. Characterization is the most important part to me when I write, and I always try to stay as true to the characters as possible based off the canon material we’re given. To me it is absolutely vital to do that character justice. I feel that is what a responsible writer should do. So even if I write stuff that isn’t centric to his heritage, or even to Keith, it’s now still a core part of his character that needs to be considered when determining his actions, thoughts, goals and motivations, especially considering some of his actions in S2 as a direct result of that. It’s something I need to keep in mind when I write him, but it’s also not really a theme I’m a fan of. I am certainly not petty enough to write it out of existence because I don’t like it—that’s not fair to the character either, and I detest that kind of blatant disregard for a character’s core traits, it’s not responsible writing. It’s leaving me a bit puzzled as to how to proceed. I’ll need some time to think on it. I need to figure out how to get on board with Galra!Keith in a way that still leaves me comfortable writing it.

(Plus, not gonna lie, it totally tanked an idea I had in mind where I was intending to use Keith as the main POV. Okay, I may be a tad bitter about that. I liked this idea. Oh well). That cliffie is another issue. At least we can work with the S1 cliffhanger. What do you do when a character has disappeared? Are we gonna have to establish they got him back every time? Or set it at an indeterminable point somewhere between all the action? Except there wasn’t really any point during which they slowed down. Just. Gonna need to think on that one. And as previously mentioned in this post, I’ve got a nasty case of the obsessive compulsive disorder, mixed with being an insane perfectionist, and it’s driving me bonkers now that some of my fics are canon inaccurate. I’ll get over it but man. It bothers the hell out of me.

ANYWAY. There’s my thoughts. In one long, super post. If you read through all that, congrats.

[sweetgloss]

@veeraha

Before I begin this rebuttal I’d just like to make it known that I am good friends with Anu and that I have all the respect for her in the world, just in case someone gets the wrong idea. We just disagree on this and are having a respectful debate in order to understand each others’ points of view. 

But alright. Time to plunge into the Discourse. I’m going to go through your replies one by one and answer each one as best as I can.

I’m afraid that I’m going to have to immediately disagree with you. I take your point that shipping in this instance is sometimes referring to people exploring the dynamic between them, but I’m not sure that it should be called “shipping” in that case, given the connotations and rather different meaning that shipping tends to have. The word “shipping” when applied here seems to give off fujioshi vibes, simply wanting to see the characters together somewhat inexplicably - because they look good together?? Because Sangwoo appears to have some sort of multiple personality disorder which tricks the reader and emotionally manipulates them during the romance scenes, into almost rooting for Sangwoo and Yoonbum’s relationship?

Because I think that that is the case. The author has so carefully and beautifully constructed Killing Stalking that during the romantic scenes, especially due to Sangwoo’s almost tender kisses, the reader almost forgets the nasty facet of him, in the blinding light of this new, vulnerable, gentle side. THE READER IS JUST AS DELUDED, IN THAT MOMENT, AS YOONBUM. And THAT is the genius of Killing Stalking, and why so many people, I believe, rabidly “ship” the two of them, because the construction of the storyline and the calculated fluctuations in Sangwoo’s personality delude and lull the reader into almost suppporting them in their twisted, sick relationship. I won’t pretend - I myself was invested and tense when they were about to kiss, much as I hated the fact that I was. This is entirely down to the clever writing and the manipulation of the reader’s emotions and perceptions, mirroring Sangwoo’s manipulation of Yoonbum’s emotions and perceptions.

[This is going to be long so I’ll spare those of you who don’t want a lengthy lecture on my thoughts]

As to an exploration of their dynamic and the twisted nature of their relationship, I’m down for that. I wouldn’t call that “shipping”, though. It’s more of a study of them. And as to the comment about condoning it in real life - I suppose that really differs from person to person. That argument would excuse pedophilic and incestuous ships, too, by that same reasoning. I personally could never endorse a fictional relationship that I would not realistically endorse due to reasons such as abuse or pedophilia, since I would feel very uncomfortable. That said, I do ship Lawlight, despite it also being fundamentally unhealthy and totally unrealistic - but it is not abusive, pedophilic (though I suppose that depends on the time frame you set their relationship in but let’s not get into that) or incestuous. But I suppose that you are less affected than I am by the nature of these relationships...I’m not sure if perhaps it is because I am quite a bit younger than you and am less experienced (I’m only sixteen and you are in your twenties, though I like to think I’m quite mature for my age!!) or if we simply have different values. This, I think, will be a point upon which we shall have to agree to disagree.

Okay, next, upon to the issue of representation. I understand your points and I fully agree that there needs to be a spectrum of “good” and “evil” LGBT characters, and only good representation is hardly representation at all, is it? Haha god forbid we only recieve “politically correct renditions” of characters. However, there is a distinct difference between an evil or morally corrupt LGBT character and the toxic, depraved relationship between Sangwoo and Yoonbum. I understand your point about women writing letters to serial killers, but that to me only seems to highlight the fetishization and romanticization of this whole torture, killing and stalking scenario, which some people, not necessarily just women, seem hellbent on. 

I honestly think that people exploring the grotesqueness of the torture...etc and the effect it has on their relationship dynamic need to seperate themselves from the frankly disgusting fujioshis when it comes to Killing Stalking. I actually like the idea of the exploration of the disturbingness of the relationship and the strange dependence that both characters have on each other. It’s fascinating. I will admit that the LGBT factor took me off on a bit of a wild tangent - I was meant to be talking about the fact that tumblr sold it to me by pegging it as LGBT. I knew NOTHING about Killing Stalking when I started to read it, other than the facts that it was a disturbing psychological horror, that one of the character’s legs were fucked-up and that it was really gay and that people were associating it with other LGBT media from last year. The best part is the construction of the story and the careful emotional manipulation of reader and Yoonbum alike, and I’m rather sad that this aspect has remained largely undiscussed.

Yes, notably, Yuri On Ice (which I still have yet to watch somehow??). I know that you disliked the comparison, but it really was somewhat inevitable, given that YOI was one of the most prominent LGBT pieces of media last year. I however think that they cannot really be compared due to this gigantic genre gap, and for the fact that the YOI relationship is perhaps too stupidly glowing and perfect - particularly when reviewed side-by-side with the the warped nature of the obsessive, dependent, abusive relationship, dark and monster-esque in comparison, if Victuuri is an airbrushed and slightly rushed princess.

Also, with all due respect, I’ll tag my views with whatever I please. If they’re to do with Killing Stalking, I will use the Killing Stalking tag. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. However, if you’re lacking in posts about the plot (honestly is everyone seriously just complaining about the ship??? The actual plot is so good, how come nobody’s praising it???), I’d be more than happy to discuss it with you! 

And lastly, your very good point about it being fictional, after all. I...understand this and that fiction is the only place for this sort of twisted relationship to be explored, and that it could be interesting if done correctly. I disagree, however, with the enjoyment of it. It is intriguing and very very compelling as a relationship, but it is not intended to be enjoyable as a relationship. I would honestly be concerned if you found their relationship to be enjoyable. It’s absolutely chillingly disturbing, and I am positive that this strange dependence on each other combined with their own depravities is intended by the author to have this effect, and not to produce one of enjoyment, besides lulling the initially incredulous reader and Yoonbum into enjoying Sangwoo’s gentler facet. However, though I can see why the exploration of such a dark and volatile dynamic might be very interesting, I simply cannot in good conscience endorse the pairing. Perhaps it is a personal thing, but I feel as if it would be a slap in the face to true abductees, people in truly abusive relationships, people truly being tortured. It feels like romanticization to me, and I don’t think that any amount of attempting to convince me that it’s all just harmless fiction is going to change this view.

[I hope that I was clear and that I haven’t mortally offended you in the process of explaining myself]