#pop discourse

[yokiekokae]

does anyone else find the current sabrina carpenter discourse dumb?

[nsfw: sexual topics mentioned in discourse]

not a sabrina stan and I see the point other people are making against her new album's theme but I find it hard to understand why people are reacting so shockingly while using arguments that don't even make sense to me.

my first complaint: sabrina is the same artist who had entire tour bits where she showed off a different sex position every show night and another one where you could see her silhouette getting down into a threesome. her apparent romanticization of consensual petplay isn't too foreign in comparison to her previous creative choices (that people loved), it all feels like they're in the same ballpark of her cheeky sexuality so I don't get why people are treating her new album announcement as a shocking contrast?

second: people are calling her a hypocrite for doing this after "building a career around manhating", what??? are we thinking of the same sabrina? she's made popular songs about hating on BAD BOYFRIENDS yes (feather, pleasex3 and manchild come to mind) but not MANHATING; because other than those songs, she's been popularly known for her playfully horny stage persona. literally majority of her popular songs that i can name on the top of my mind are about seduction or being down bad for a man (nonsense, espresso, taste, bed chem, juno). I wasn't at all surprised when she posted her album announcement referencing petplay (which is an extremely common kink btw, and one of the more well-known ones at that) because it genuinely just felt like standard sabrina. third: a bit minor, but another commonly cited argument i've seen used against her is that she "isn't radical enough to be doing something like this" which i think i just personally disagree with. for me, it makes more sense that a more unserious artist would do what sabrina did because it was an extremely surface level concept announcement; an mdom fsub petplay concept with no other elements to hint at anything else. if a more serious and radical artist had posted the same photos sabrina did, I feel it would be a lot more confusing, because what would it be trying to say? its lack of further meaning would seem off-brand for a more radical personality.

fourth: THE REST OF THE ALBUM ISN'T EVEN OUT YET. this complaint is a bit of a copout on its own which is why i saved it for the end section, but srsly can we WAIT because all we literally have so far are two photos and an album title, we have no idea what direction or plans sabrina has for this album!!!

and lastly: im just already so sick of femininely sexual women getting the most blame online for "upholding the patriarchy" my god i am so tired dude.

[iamafkrn]

The fact that the fans didn’t get violent about the dating scandals is low-key the most unrealistic part of the movie 😭😭

[cardentist]

I love yuri memes, but at this point it feels like half the time the joke is just "romance between queer men is shallow and meaningless," and I'm being expected to laugh at it when I'm the butt of said joke

[t00thpasteface]

by and large, Fandom Discourse™ is unchanging and neverending. i joined tumblr in 2011 when i was 14, and i got into a million fights as a high schooler about what i perceived to be very serious issues within the Fandom Discourse™. now, at double that age, enough time passed that i can look back on those days and see that NONE of us had ANY effect whatsoever on our fandom nor any fandoms, and i'm awed at the scale of all that time i could've spent drawing, writing, and chatting with my friends about that thing we like instead of arguing with strangers about it instead.

issues like what's problematic to draw/write, what's problematic to read/watch/play, what's problematic to ship or not ship, etc., are largely Solved Issues— not in the sense that there's one right answer like a solved math problem, but in the sense that there's only one outcome, which is that there will never be one right answer you can just post loudly enough about to convince all the right people and forever shun the nonbelievers.

and maybe it's a little hypocritical of me to make a post like this, but i really don't want to take ANY side in ANY discourse; i just want to help reach people entrenched in the discourse and offer them a way out of it, because i know how easy it is to get trapped in those perpetual outrage cycles, and now more than ever, we need to get OUT of them!! this is your sign to distance yourself from the discourse. if i can help at least one person take one deep breath and cancel one angry post, then my yapping will be worth it :')

[alexandraisyes]

The cutest reminder ever that the way family works in TSAMS canon is that two parties have to be in mutual agreement that they are family. If one party doesn't agree then they aren't family. Parties can revoke familial ties whenever they want and that means they are no longer family.

"Code Relation" theory is stupid because you're then implying that Eclipse is Sun and Moon's child. Which he isn't. Or that Killcode is somehow Moon's child and his brother at the same time that he's Eclipse, Lunar and Bloodmoon's "father" at the same time that they're Sun and Moon's grand children. Like, we're seeing the issue here, right?

Don't make things more complicated than it has to be. Just accept the fact that family is literally determined by a verbal agreement between two animatronics and nothing else because none of them were born from wombs. That means respecting canon when characters in canon decide that they aren't comfortable being family (like Eclipse) or just straight-up disown everyone (like Bloodmoon). It's okay to have headcanons, but don't try to push them onto canon.

[fantasticalleigh]

i'm obsessed with the (new?) chicago pride flag and it was @punk-o-ween 's idea to use it as inspo for new punk gear and thus this came about :3

[suffersinfandom]

"Killing Izzy was a horrendous narrative mistake" and "S2 baited Stizzy and Steddyhands so hard to get people to watch because they knew it was shit" and "We weren't mad because Izzy died, we were mad because S2 was objectively shit (even though many of us were thrilled with it until the final episode aired)" and "David Jenkins' holiday special is horrifically ableist" are all things I have read in bsky's OFMD tab today. Is everyone quite well. Do you know you can just... let the show go.

Continuing to be mad about media you hate is just perplexing to me, but I think I'm just built different (worse). I give up on things so fast. I've quit more shows than I've finished. If media pisses me off, I drop it and run. There's so much stuff in the world to love; why would I stick around a fandom that I hate when I could enjoy things instead?

[yokiekokae]

i just made an unoriginal revelation that this sabrina album cover outrage is basically the gen z/alpha version of what britney and madonna went through in their early career wherein internalized misogyny was rampant and they took the blame for why women were being objectified— and not because of, you know, men

damn, it really is a recession!

i srsly have no doubt that this is how sabrina is reacting to all the backlash and godspeed to her if so 😭

[bookwyrminspiration]

this isn't a fully formed thought, but some of the ways people "critique" kotlc is starting to bother me a little. there's genuine critique and criticism, but some of them feel like...condescending almost? talking down on the series to show they're better/more mature than to like it. or that they're better than Shannon--I feel I see a lot of condescending to Shannon (WHAT is she doing, why would she do that, we can tell you don't plan, does she even know her own series?)

and i've definitely been guilty of it before and have my share of criticisms, but it does make me want to go like. okay but you do also like the series though, right? that's why we're all here--we're here by choice, much as I joke about being held hostage. there is an appreciation for the good parts and the community and everything else under all that, right? right??

[snewdraws]

[911bts]

Deleted my last post because the crypticness wasn't helping anyone.

The photos were leaked. Not official. So I deleted the post because I personally don't want to share that content.

(There's other personal layers to it too that I won't get into it. But it's nothing that concerns the fandom or anything that people should worry about)

[hymnsandhauntings]

The Trouble With Power: Sabrina Carpenter

Let me begin with a confession: I was charmed by Espresso. The flirtation, the boldness, the winking lines that toed the edge between self-possession and seduction: Sabrina Carpenter was in her pop star bag, and I was rooting for her.

Espresso was sticky with self-awareness. Fun without being frivolous. A femme-pop high that made space for cheeky sexuality without leaning on the predictable scaffolding of male fantasy.

It was clever.
She was clever.

But now, watching the rollout of her Man’s Best Friend era, I find myself pausing.

The kind of pause that catches in your throat.

The kind that says: "I hope this isn’t what it looks like."

‘Manchild’ and the Fantasy of the Dangerous Road

Let’s talk about the Manchild music video.

It opens with Sabrina hitchhiking in a pair of platform heels and cutoff denim shorts, somewhere in the sun-bleached desert. It’s a familiar pop trope: think Lana, Britney, Madonna, but one with deeply uncomfortable roots.

This isn’t just a fantasy of freedom.
It’s one of exposure. Of danger. Of woman-as-bait.

Hitchhiking is not a neutral image for women. It carries with it decades of danger narratives: from true crime stories to horror films to cautionary tales whispered between girls. The woman on the side of the road isn’t empowered, she’s vulnerable.

Yes, Sabrina flips the script in the final act of the video, turning the camera around on the men who pick her up. But does a bloody reversal erase what’s been stylised in the first place? Or does it re-perform it?

That’s the trouble: when you borrow the language of trauma to be edgy, and then don’t interrogate it, you risk reinforcing the very harm you say you’re undoing.

Man’s Best Friend and the Aesthetic of Submission

Then there’s the album cover.

Carpenter, on all fours. A man, faceless, anonymous, clutching her hair. The title: Man’s Best Friend.

It’s striking. But not in the way Espresso was. That was empowerment through wit. This feels like submission without satire.

Kink aesthetics have a place in the art world. There’s nothing inherently wrong with invoking power play. But the missing ingredient here is framing. Where’s the context? The metaphor? The invitation to look deeper?

Without it, this isn’t performance: it’s posturing.

And when the line between critique and replication is this thin, we have to ask:

Who is this for?

Pop Stardom, the Gaze, and What We Pass Down

Sabrina Carpenter is no longer an emerging artist. She’s the pop girl of the moment. Millions of young fans watch her every move, not just what she sings, but how she frames womanhood, agency, and sexuality.

That kind of visibility is power. And with power comes responsibility: not to sanitise or censor, but to consider the impact of the art we present on a global stage.

Because when you’re being watched by the next generation, your visuals don’t live in a vacuum. They echo. They teach. They land.

So What Are We Reclaiming, Exactly?

We talk a lot about “reclaiming” imagery: owning the gaze, choosing objectification as power. But if the image we’re reclaiming is still a woman on all fours with a man above her… what are we actually taking back?

Because if the answer is “everyone gets it,” but the execution is indistinguishable from patriarchy’s greatest hits: then we’re not reclaiming.
We’re reselling.

And at that point, are we even subverting?
Or are we just packaging old power in new glitter?

A Raised Eyebrow

Let me be clear: this is not a cancellation. This is a raised eyebrow.

A quiet “Are we sure?”

I’m not here to label Sabrina Carpenter as anti-feminist, nor demand that every pop star become an activist. What I’m asking is: if we’re going to play with fire, can we at least explain what we’re burning down?

Because if this is satire…let us in.


If it’s critique… frame it.


If it’s empowerment… tell us who is empowered.

Right now, it’s not clear. And in the silence, it’s easy for the male gaze to take over again.

This is not about outrage.
It’s about care.

If I didn’t respect Sabrina as a writer and performer, I wouldn’t be asking these questions. But I do. Which is why I am.

If this era is an experiment, then let’s ask: what are we testing?And who are we making space for in the results?

Hymns And Hauntings

[proserpine-in-phases]

This post bugs the shit out of me because it completely divorces the author from the culture of the time she was writing in and ignores the fact that having nonvillainous gay characters in her work at all was actually insanely progressive, and not allowing fanfic or art was just. How it was. She was no where near anne rice levels of protective, and in fact her fan forums in the early 2000s did allow fanfic to be posted as long as the characters were all ocs.

Like, circling back to the gay and trans rep, she was writing in the 60s-90s, when being openly gay got you openly beaten to death in most parts of the us, reagan let the aids crisis go unchecked because of the perception it was only affecting gay people, being gay got you dishonorable discharge from the military, queer people had no civil protections from retaliation if their orientation was discovered, and anne McCaffrey was making gay dragon riders be the protectors of her fictional planet. Like. That's not homophobic especially for the times. She wouldnt be considered progressive by TODAYS standards, sure, but most of the pern books came out 40 years ago when dont ask dont tell was progressive policy.

And for a straight woman in her 50s writing background gay characters she was being pretty damn progressive for her time

PLUS op doesnt even bring up the most truly homophobic this she ever said which was her tent peg theory of homosexuality. Like do a little research before popping off

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

With the recent release of “Elio”, there’s been a lot of revived discoursed surrounding Disney, Pixar, and originality in their movies. I’ve seen a lot of people shaming others for not watching the movie, going “Oh these people beg for originality but ignore it when we do get it”.

Originality is (understandably) quite wanted, yes, I too am sick of constant franchise oversaturation, but what these people fail to consider is that being original is not always a one-way ticket to being considered good

(That last bit isn’t meant to be a dig on Elio, I haven’t seen it yet as of the time I sent this ask)

oh yes, i saw some of those posts and i found it a bit absurd too. i do think that people should watched elio because it's a genuinely good movie, not just because it's an original movie.

i can understand why people are starting to veer away from disney and pixar so to shame them for not watching a new movie is only gonna make them NOT want to watch it.

i think the idea is to encourage the studios to release more original movies, but they already know that. they're not dumb, they know that people want original movies. they're basically thriving off of ragebait right now, because ruining a beloved classic is the best way to get people talking. coming up with an original idea would require them to actually pay their employees and give their writers the creative freedom to come up with something new.

[sawyerexe]

There's discourse on whether or not harley can see with his robot bodies bc of the eye? i always assumed there was imbedded cameras in the monitors or mounted to the chassis

Webcams were public household item in the 90s and household tech is usually 2-5 years behind business and government tech. Playtime is a robotics progressive place, I think there's cameras, mics, and speakers on those bodies

shrugemoji

[silverbriseis]

Why am I seeing top/bottom discourse on tomarrymort in the good old year of 2025, yall have to stop engaging in this and go write/draw about the respective characters being stuffed which is more productive!!!!