#tsoa deidamia

[cjbolan]

Up to Chapter 12 of The Song of Achilles. HOOOLY SHIT was that a lot to process…

*WARNING: SPOILERS BELOW*

1. Who knew Patroclus was a racist. Super jarring from his usual goodie two-shoes image 😆

2. I really hate Thetis now.

3. Happy Achilles finally stood up to Thetis and realized what a piece of shit person she really is.

4. I like that Achilles stays in Scyros not because he fears his mom but because he’s bound by honor to not abandon a woman that he impregnated.

5. I went from liking Deidameia to hating her to feeling sorry for her, all in just one chapter.

6. I’m with you , Achilles and Patroclus. I don’t know either why Thetis wants Achilles to go to war but not the Trojan War in particular.

[ismaeldrawsthings]

Why was Achilles surprise Deidamia got pregnant in TSOA bro you was there

[calciumyum]

[Epic Modern AU] A dad to (unexpectedly) dad conversation!! Bonus:

Teething baby Telemachus is a menace :p

also, a comment I got on tiktok from this comic:

Being in the Greek Myths fandom is so funny because you'll get comments like this on a comic where the character is presented like this:

Detestable child who committed many crimes (he ate Patroclus' last cookie)

[colwashere]

JUSTICE FOR MY BABIES

[barelyanartblog]

Gee kid how come your mom let's you be doomed yaoi AND yuri

[darlingsart]

Patroclus didn’t know what he was getting into when he stepped onto that island 💁🏽‍♀️

A (kind of) continuation of this except this time Pyrrha’s the one sharing everything she’s learned from the other girls lol

Thanks again for the commission @patrochillesvibes, I had way too much fun with this 💕

[m4el-1t0]

If I say Achilles is gay is not because I think he exclusively likes men it's because making any woman go through that should be considered misogynistic by itself

[vviczyl]

okay

Mini series 1 | 2 | 3

[elasticveins]

Saw someone say this and i. What are you yapping ab.

[patrochillesvibes]

Pyrrha: I know I’ve been talking about my husband Patroclus all morning, but another thing I love about Patroclus is that he just gets me. Deidamia: Can he come get you right now?

[be-it-so]

I was going through the Deidamia tag, and why the hell is it all about tsoa

[notaclassicist]

justice for deidamia

that's all

[calciumyum]

I love Patroclus and Pyrrhus' dynamic in my modern au

Brief and simplified Story Timeline under the cut!

Early childhood

Patroclus acted out a lot as a kid, especially after his mother's death. An accident in the playground caused another kid's death, but Patroclus was declared innocent thanks to eye witnesses (Pat still believes it's his fault)

Patroclus was in foster care after Menoetius got convicted for child neglect, he was 10.

Peleus took him in and Achilles immediately became so attached to him

Patroclus is so scared of Thetis and he feels indebted to Peleus

Achilles is a nepo baby!! Peleus and especially Thetis are so influential

Boarding School era

When Thetis noticed that Achilles seemed very dependent on Patroclus, she came up with the idea of separating them (she wants her son to be more independent)

Achilles was about to be sent to a boarding school when he's 13

Patroclus managed to sneak into the train with him and ended up going to the same school

Patroclus and Achilles began secretly dating when they're 15

Deidamia

Lycomedes and Thetis thought it'd be nice to get Achilles and Deidamia to know each other

Achilles began seeing Deidamia when they're 16 and asked Patroclus if he could date her as well

Patroclus (reluctantly) agreed because Achilles promised that nothing would change between them

Deidamia is in the girls' dorm, so Achilles used to dress up as a girl to sneak into her room.

Being the dumb irresponsible teenagers they are, Deidamia got pregnant

Achilles told Patroclus that Deidamia wanted to keep the baby and that they're gonna send the baby over to Thetis while they're in school

When Achilles told Patroclus, Patroclus lashed out and refused to talk to Achilles for. 12 hours. (The longest they've gone without talking)

For a brief moment Thetis blamed Patroclus for not paying enough attention to Achilles, believing that he was trying to ruin her son's name and reputation

This entire situation was hell for Patroclus. He thought he had lost both his foster family and his Achilles.

Baby Pyrrhus

Achilles and Deidamia thought it'd be funny to name the baby after Pyrrha

Deidamia and Achilles aren't married yet, but Deidamia spends her school break at Achilles' house to spend time with their son

The moment Achilles graduated from school when he's 18, Peleus got him a deal to be an intern at Agamemnon's company overseas. Achilles said he would only go if Patroclus comes with him

Deidamia got full custody of Pyrrhus because he's only 2 and can't possibly be passed around between her and Achilles if he moves overseas, though she now lives with Peleus and Thetis

Achilles and Deidamia broke up because they can't handle a long distance relationship, but they stayed friends

Troy

Achilles and Patroclus stayed in Turkey for years and would only fly back home once or twice. He kept in touch with Pyrrhus from video calls which didn't happen often

Achilles began getting custody for Pyrrhus when he was 12, where he would fly to Turkey on school breaks

Achilles isn't used to having Pyrrhus around, so he left all the parenting stuff to Patroclus

Achilles would occasionally bring Pyrrhus to work too when they don't have anyone to watch over him at home

Pyrrhus is mad at Patroclus because he thought he's the reason Achilles left him and his mother

He also hates that Achilles is a lot closer to Patroclus and would rather spend time with him than Pyrrhus

Will add more overtime but this is the full timeline so far!!

[azurejacques]

Back to rereading the song of Achilles and I’m reminded of the ONE little plot hole that bothers me: chapter 12, Deidameia speaking

“No!” She turned to Achilles. “You are lying! You have betrayed me! Monster! Apathes!” Heartless. Lycomedes froze. Achilles’ fingers tightened on mine. In our language, words come in different genders. She had used the masculine form.

ἀπαθής (apathḗs) is a third-declension adjective in Ancient Greek, which means one very important thing- the masculine and feminine forms are the same. There isn’t any way I can think of that masculine gender would’ve been indicated in her speech here- she likely would’ve been using the vocative (a grammatical case which is used when addressing someone, commonly translated with 'O' in English, e.g. “sing, O muse…”) , so absolutely no article (not that I’d expect one anyhow, but you could devise some indirect construction I’m sure). She also would’ve used the 2nd person singular pronoun if she used one at all, which is σύ (sý), and only third person pronouns can have gender marked on them.

Point being- there’s simply no way I can think of that this would’ve explicitly been gendering Achilles masculinely- it would’ve been ambiguous. I’m especially annoyed since Madeline Miller is herself a classicist and apparently has taught Ancient Greek too! So I’d love to know if this was a mistake or what her reasoning her is lmao, because it feels like a pretty big mistake to me (but obviously is not something that most of her audience would spot).

[jestersking]

I really want to read TSOA but I have no one to ask about this so I'm referring to tumblr hi

I heard pretty unpleasant things about tsoa Deidamia and how she was handled and villainized and I have very strong negative feelings about the whole "woman gets in the way of my gay people" trope so I just want to know from people who read if it's like. actually bad and how strongly it actually impacts the story? Can I skip those parts if they are as bad as I think they are? I love myth Dei a lot and I don't know if I'll be able to actually enjoy the story if I am forced to read about the unpleasant things she did in the book

[random-krab]

TSOA rant

I think it is time i bring up my change of tags If you don’t know or haven’t noticed I have changed most tags on my Iliad and “TSOA” posts tags to Anti-madeline miller, there are multiple reasons for this for one re-reading Tsoa her blatant fetishism of gay men is clear and she misuses the mythology and each characters original characterization, But i’m getting ahead of myself.  I’m going to start with Patroclus because he is a protagonist in this, which I admit isn’t a bad idea in itself but she changes so much about him that is hard to recognize but let's start with his age, while we don’t know his exact age we do know that he is older than Achilles because he was a squire, role model, and counsel to him, But she changes this which I admit makes sense when trying to appeal to a modern audience but in doing that you strip him of any solo characterization and authority, He goes from an angry boy to a generally calm man who can make good decisions which really makes his choice to go into battle in disguise really impactful. But she changes that and therefore changes his original personality. Speaking of personality she does something bluntly homophobic which is the feminization of Patroclus’s character, Patroclus goes from a very good warrior, strategist and medic to only a medic in her “Retelling” it is very reminiscent of the “Warrior husband and Healer wife” trope as pointed out by @booklover42 on my "Tsoa isn't accurate" Post; fun fact; most death counts either end with Patroclus having a higher or same body count as Achilles and It is never hidden that he is a fighter.

Speaking of Achilles. Achilles is probably the worst in this. A Lot of his personality, relationships, and actions are retconned which is weird for someone like madeline miller who claims to care about the mythology and accuracy of her “retellings” to do. The first thing I really hate is his relationship with Thetis, his mother. Her overall characterization is horrible, in the iliad she is a caring mother who might be slightly overbearing but she isn’t nearly as bad as she is in this. Her interactions with Patroclus automatically turns the reader against her even after finding out she was forced into marriage.

AND SPEAKING OF MARRIAGE. I will say this over and over and over again. Achilles was sexually attracted to women and men (or at least patroclus). You have no idea how angry I get when I see posts talking about how Achilles was gay. Because 2 things 1. No he wasn’t, he was just Greek literally no one would care about him having a male lover (expect maybe Peleus even then it would be more about the heir aspect of yk having a wife) the only point anyone has a thing to say about his relationship with Patroclus in a negative light is in  that one Shakespearean play where they just complain that they are having too much sex and aren’t doing anything. And Actually saying he was gay is weird because they didn’t have a word for it (Well actually that's kind of a lie they had pederasty, eromenos, and Kinaidos but uh) and 2. He had a wife and at least 1 sex slave of which I will get into later. But on to the marriage thing, His marriage to Deidamia wasn’t her sexually assaulting him or really even forced by thetis like it's implied (actually in one account its said that Achilles sexually assaulted her) but like no, in most versions they just started a intimate relationship while he was in disguise and eventually got married and then he left for war. She wasn’t a big character in the Iliad but she was nowhere near as antagonistic and Madeline miller describes her as. Another fun fact actually Neoptolemus was never taken by thetis?, I don’t know where Madeline got that from but it was in none of the sources I read. But Deidamia actually begged and tried to convince Neoptolemus not to go to war just like Thetis did with Achilles. And Actually let me get to the sex slave  Briseis, someone everyone loves in tsoa but her original character is nice, like actually she doesn’t have a lot of screen time but she is a good character, she was someone of decent standing reduced to a sex slave and a prisoner of war and a thing to be passed off and taken away at a king's wish not to mention she was promised that she would be married but achilles died before they had the chance and when his son arrived and wanted her she would rather try to run away and die in the process then be handed off to him. She is an amazing character and she is a good representation of what war looked like for the people taken captive but in tsoa she is made to be a pity character only used to make the main characters look like good men. I have nothing else to say at least right now anyway I may add to this later but yeah