#while kris just does whatever

[goomyloid]

Hello, I looked your noelle fanart in X(twitter), and I found you work at tumbler too. I don't use this app often, so if I missed something, please say.

I really love your noelle & kris art, so I want to know what's your best part of kris & noelle in deltarune chapter 2?

And thank you for your deltarune fan art. I really, really love it and support you♡

(Sorry for bad English, it is not my best language!)

hello!! firstly, thank you so much for enjoying my work, i really appreciate it!!! 🥺🥺💓 i love drawing kris and noelle a ton hehe

as for my favorite chapter 2 scenes with them... it'd be very easy for me to say all of cyber city LOL but i especially love noelle joining a battle for the first time, where kris and virovirokun have to teach her how battles work (and then she dresses as a nurse and falls over)

i also think there's a lot of funny scenes and dialogue where kris just messes with her for fun ^^ like when kris steps off the forcefield button and noelle is like "kris, no! stay! gosh, do you need a dog treat or something?" theyre so goofyyyyy

LASTLY i dont really know if it counts or not but in noelle's blog post about susie bullying kris, i think its super funny when kris opens the locker door, sees noelle inside, and just.... slowly closes it

i could go on and on im so entranced by every single interaction with them qwtewfyudgyewh but i think those are my favorites... tysm for the ask!!

[centipedetea]

its killing me that spamton is going thru that situation where people hate woobifying fanon so much that they lean too far in the opposite direction and create fanon 2 where he's cartoonishly evil for no reason

[analog-television]

look - whether or not toby acts on it, it is interesting how meteorology has its fair share of halos involved (and in a game where angel imagery is quite prevalent - its easy to get conspiratorial). the last two aren't directly called halos, they just remind me of those.

like ough ... look ... (images taken from the international cloud atlas, except from the last one which is from wikipedia)

i just think that ☝️it would be sooo easy to go absolutely feral w/ cool looking weather fanart. also sprites in particular may as well be angels imo, they just have that essence to them (i love sprites).

[p33p33p00p00]

nobody understands how much susie deltarune means to me

[birdsareblooming]

bc of the alcohol scene people are FINALLY clocking that Toriel is also kinda shitty. for people who didn't pick up on it this is not new to Deltarune:

Toriel is incredibly stubborn especially about her beliefs and therefore she states very blatently that she is good and Asgore is bad and evil and horrible, meanwhile Asgore himself is a pushover and takes it like a pussy. Because she states it with such confidence people just kinda.. believed her.

Toriel's the one who left and decided to stew instead of actually solving any problems. it took six kids for Toriel to actually try to hold one back. When she comes back like. yeah a lot of this is Asgore's fault but what she says to him then could've been said six dead kids ago instead of basically ghosting him. Even after all of her worry she still doesn't come with you because despite herself and what she thinks, she's just as much of a coward delaying the inevitable as Asgore is.

These themes really continue in Deltarune. While Asgore is definitely too pushy, Toriel refuses to talk to him in any way at all, throwing away his flowers and trash talking him behind his back while also not talking to him at all. Similarly to Undertale she'd much rather avoid and trash talk him than make moves to fix anything.

Even though Toriel kinda does, it's not an argument of who was worse in the situation of either Undertale or Deltarune, if you start counting "sin points" to decide who was worse than you're loosing your media literacy. As far as I can tell at least in Undertale Toriel is just as at fault as Asgore is, even IF she tried and failed years ago and gave up, shutting herself off from the world and pretending it doesn't exist is no solution, and it's almost the same solution Asgore took, even right before he kills you.

We don't know the situation in Delatrune other than Asgore seems to have something he's involved with that Toriel doesn't want to talk about that Carol is "financing", very well could be an addiction of his own.

But I think the blatant alcoholism (that's in Undertale btw, in the alarm clock event she also got plastered) that people who know what alcoholism looks like noticed how Kris (and Susie) act in that scene has made it more apparent than ever that Toriel is an incredibly flawed character and one of her flaws is not being able to see that, something that Asgore does the opposite of where he's always wallowing in self-pity.

Toriel is really good at general mom-isms like making breakfast, taking the kids out, supporting interests, giving hugs, etc. However when actually worrying about Kris' safety and wellbeing she ends up falling short, as people have pointed out when we come home in chapter 4 she doesn't ask why either of them were out so late. Even a controlled state Kris has enough embarrassment and shame about the scene that they hide their face, meaning Kris has shown obvious signs of disapproval before that Toriel has not seen or ignored.

I think that's why her and Sans mesh so well together in an actually horrible way. Sans also likes to pretend stuff doesn't exist and brush stuff off with a joke instead of doing anything until literally the last minute. With how he acts in the scene he may not know, but weather he knows or not he is absolutely enabling her, which weather Toriel knows it or not is why she likes him and keeps him around. Finally a succinct way of saying why I believe their relationship, whatever you believe it is, is a toxic one.

TLDR: the only parent doing a good job here is Rudy unless we learn info later that changes that

[atalana]

also im sure some people have noticed already, but since i haven't seen anything on tumblr about it yet, for people who haven't - kris has 20hp in the light world and so far that bar has pretty much always been full

in chapter four though, after kris beats the soul up, that's no longer the case!

their brief smacking it with the hockey stick/guitar in the normal route drops your health to 18. their vicious kicking the shit out of the soul in the snowgrave continuation drops it to 10. (it drops even further by the end of the chapter in a way that might have something to do with how much health you ended the titan battle with, but im gonna do a couple more ch4 playthroughs and see if i can nail down exactly what the deal with that is, and if it means that the titan can reach across worlds and damage kris' soul in a way no other dark world enemy has been able to so far)

either way, the first thing that happens when they try to move after putting the soul back in, is they stumble and fall and it takes a few seconds for them to even try and get back up. (it looks like they're tripping over the object they threw from certain angles in the normal route, but no this happens no matter how clear their path is)

regardless of whether or not it's their original soul, it is now intrinsic to their life force. any amount of damage done to the soul, even when outside their body, will hurt kris in equal amounts, and they've been doing this long enough they have to know that!

in the normal route that speaks to their level of dedication to whatever their end goal is here, that they will hurt themselves quite significantly to keep susie from finding that note on the guitar (though it's in keeping with chara being one of their two undertale parallels)

but in snowgrave pt 2. god. it speaks to how much they hate us. that route in ch4 reveals that the first thing soulless kris did at the end of ch2 wasn't creating the fountain - there was an unseen timeskip. the first thing soulless kris did after snowgrave was to sneak over to noelle's house, remove the thorn ring (that was controlling her and giving her the ability to kill with ice magic), tell her everything was gonna be okay, but that she should never mention any of this to anyone (because if she said it around kris in the future then the soul would hear)

and kris' worst fears came true. she does bring it up, because she doesn't realise kris is also included in "anyone". and to stay on the snowgrave route, like in ch2, you have to do the worst thing possible, which is manually take control of kris back (this is happening while you're the untethered soul, but kris is distracted enough you can rejoin their body without them fighting you off - but you can see their sprite shaking afterwards as they try to resist what you're about to do), confirm for noelle that all of her dream was real, tell her she's going to get stronger, and force the thorn ring back on her (at which point the screen goes black with red lines like shattered glass, and the segment in noelle's house ends there, so we don't know the full consequences of that yet)

i did talk in a previous post about the shadow mantle boss saying that kris enjoyed the snowgrave route, they just didn't want to admit it to themselves and being possessed by the player gave them a convenient excuse. but after playing this route i no longer think that's even a remote possibility.

because kris wasn't trying to hide or prevent anything by beating the soul up this time. this was pure revenge and disgust over what we did to their friend. and even knowing that whatever damage they did was also going to be done to them, they were willing to beat it within an inch of its life. your vision is blurring the entire time, kris loses half their health from this, they only stopped because asgore nearly caught them in the act. and the burning question on my mind is how much further were they willing to go? if no one interrupted, would they have stopped at all?

(and yeah the takeaway here is that going forward, kris is hurt, in more ways than ralsei or susie can heal. and also do not ever underestimate their love for noelle)

[ofekma]

Kris and Ralsei: slowly warming up (part 1)

Anyone who's been in the fandom for some time is probably aware of the 'tea theory' by now, the theory that the more hp someone gets from another character's tea, the more they like them.

Which I can agree with for the most part, except for a few things, like the fact that feelings can be complicated and are not easily measured by numbers.

Also, it led to the (im)famous "Kris hates Ralsei" conclusion.

But you know, this conclusion didn't stem just from the tea theory.

Because while Kris and Ralsei have moments like this with Susie:

Every moment Kris and Ralsei have seem to be initiated by us or the game, and often feels a little awkward more than genuine.

Not only that, but Kris chooses Susie over Ralsei every chance they have.

But you know, they never show dislike towards Ralsei either. As early as chapter two Kris managed to voice their opinion through the way they say the choices we make for them, and let their true feelings shine through:

But no one ever pointed out that Kris sounded or looked disgusted or hateful whenever we made them say anything nice to Ralsei.

I think that it's more like they haven't emoted at all, just let us move them and talk through them like a puppet.

Kris didn't mind being nice to Ralsei (though I can't be sure about the hugs) before, just like they didn't mind his tea.

They just didn't love it.

And it makes sense, because Kris met Ralsei yesterday, and they probably didn't see themselves in him the same way they did with Susie.

Of course, you can befriend someone in the span of a day, like Susie did with Lancer and Ralsei.

So why did it take Kris more time to warm up to him, when Ralsei has been nothing but sweet and accommodating to them this entire time?

I can think of two main reasons:

1. The (heart shaped) elephant in the room

Everyone has probably talked about it before, the relationship between Ralsei and the player.

Does he like Kris? Does he like us? Who knows.

Kris didn't know at first either, I think.

The first thing Ralsei did when we first met him was tell us about our role as heroes of the prophecy.

Is Ralsei so accommodating to Kris or to the thing controlling them?

Is Kris the first hero of the prophecy, or is it us, who are calling all the shots?

Out of all the relationships Kris has in the game (exluding weird route Noelle), the one that got hurt the most by our presence in the game is the one of Kris and Ralsei.

Think about it, ever since the first chapter he felt comfortable enough to call out Susie for her violence.

But with Kris he did nothing but gently suggest that we be nice to everyone, then follow our decisions blindly. Nothing we can do to Ralsei will make him like us any less.

Throwing his manual? that's alright.

Not saying anything after he poured his heart to you? Well, he likes you all the same.

He always offers us a choice

He didn't want himself and Susie to be able to act on their own so Kris (or us?) wouldn't feel left out

And if you tell him to keep smiling...

"After all, that's what YOU want, isn't it?"

I really don't think that he's talking to Kris when he's saying this.

Ralsei says that our choices matter, but no choice we can take can make him go against us. How can Kris sees Ralsei' liking them as genuine when he's so busy fawning and appeasing the eldritch horror possessing them?

This lack of us as a barrier is also one of the reasons why Susie and Ralsei connect so well.

Of course, I'm pretty sure that Ralsei does like and care about Kris as a person and not just as a vessel.

Look at their room, for example.

The trophies on the side of the bed? the stars on the wall? the colors of the room? the closet full of clothes where "you can wear whatever you want"?

That feels like a room Kris, personally, might actually want.

Ralsei comforting Kris post-spamton-neo battle if we say we're not fine

But also if we say that we are, because he can see that Kris is not fine. He even offers to bake them a cake in one of the flavors we know that THEY like.

And if you let Kris comfort Ralsei, he compliments their piano playing.

Which look like a small detail, but the fact that this is something Kris independently of us, and the fact that he only says it if we let him and Kris get closer, instead of asking him to do what WE want (the "keep smiling" option), all give evidence that even if many of Ralsei's actions were meant to appease us, he cares about Kris as a person and as a friend too or even more.

And I think that Kris realized it too as they got to know him better.

That's when they decide to stop let us do whatever we want about him.

But hey, literally everyone talked about the Kris-Ralsei-Player dynamic before, so let's move to the second reason to why Kris didn't jump straight to friendship with Ralsei right away:

2. The problem of the Dreemurr family

[mistleaneous-chaos]

Played through chapters 3 and 4 of Deltarune and I got a few thoughts rattling around in my head so pardon if it's a bit unorganized/messy for a good bit

Spoilers for Deltarune Chapters 3 & 4

Kris really got failed by every adult around them in varying degrees

If Dess isn't the Knight then it's probably a Gerson situation where she's been dead for a while and the Knight is her dust on her baseball bat or something. It could either be due to something that happened in the shelter or someone explicitly using the dark world as a way to bring her back even if it is in a weird fucked up way.

I don't think that Kris is a bad person, I just think that whatever "promise" they made is something the person on the phone is holding over their head and making them uphold.

Kris' relationship with Susie is something that I wanna see elaborated on more, because their rapport with each other outside of things that we directly make Kris do/say is really important to me because of how well they get along. (I ship Krusie but that's irrelevant...partially)

For context, it's a headcanon of mine that outside of our dialogue options and things that we, specifically, do, the things Kris does is of their own volition, taking whatever crumb of Freedom they can get, but if I'm wrong then please correct me.

I don't know what would be more tragic, if "The Cage" referred to in the Prophecy really is Kris and that's the purpose they're meant for in the grand scheme of things, or if it's the Vessel and Kris was never meant to be friends with Susie and Ralsei and it's because of Gaster or smth they got dragged into this.

I'm really glad Toby didn't make Toriel or Asgore "perfect" , and gave them legitimate flaws. Asgore flaunting his attempts to "woo" Toriel right in front of Kris and never really talking as if they're separated hurts, but at the same time he does love and care about Kris, even if he's preoccupied with a lot of other things(looking forward to seeing more of that in the next chapter).

And then with Toriel, her not even calling Kris once after them being out until 2 in the morning in a thunderstorm, while she's at home dancing drunk with someone she met less than half a week ago. And then when they get home, you can visibly see Kris' embarrasment, with them turning their head away from Susie when she talks to them. Then Toriel nearly falls over on Kris and just tells them there's pancakes in the fridge(which Sans ate), and goes back to partying with Sans.

I wouldn't be surprised if whoever was on the phone(most likely Carol imo but it could be someone else, maybe Asgore) is someone that Kris looks up to, or just someone who acts empathetic to what's happening to them. Maybe someone they met in therapy/knows they went to therapy(which they may have gone to if I read the implications of the Chapter 4 Egg Room correctly.) Honestly I wouldn't be surprised with how much Kris must feel like such an outsider even in their own room. They have to look at all of Asriel's achievements every single time they wake up, to the point Susie comments on it when she visits their room. Along with that, they're the only human in town which is something that gets to them, to the point that upon seeing other humans even in a book they shut it immediately.

On the topic of their family, I also have some thoughs on Asriel, and I have this to say.

I would not be surprised if Asriel just decides to stay at college and say that he has exams or something. With how much he would have to deal with in Hometown, and the fact that he would have to deal with the loss of Dess again, I don't think it's that much of a reach that he'd just stay gone. (Also I do think Asriel and Dess were in a relationship based on the fact that Asriel's old clothes and his retainer were literally in her room which probably hadn't been touched in years).

Now I'm gonna talk about the prophecy, which is a WHOLE can o' worms.

I think that at least one person in the prophecy is not a member of the $!$! squad. It's vague enough to where it's entirely possible that one of them is another character(Like The Cage being intended for The Vessel rather than Kris), and there are parts that are just straight up different like Ralsei saying Susie should be the one wearing ribbons(WHICH COULD BE A FUNNY BIT SO IGNORE), or the fact that "The Girl" is a vague name which depicts a character of the prophecy who uses a sword, which for a prophecy that has very vague imagery in other cases, is a very definitive picture to paint when Susie herself uses an Axe.

Now for what I think the ending is, I think it's something that involves either a sacrifice of one of the gang or someone else, I'm not entirely sure.

For Chapter 5, I'm looking forward to the implied Asgore section. I think it has the potential to be the most Undertale-feeling chapter out of all of them so far, especially with his prophecy panel having him wearing an actual crown. Along with that, I think having more Asgore-Kris interaction has the potential to be very sweet and have character development for the big man or very sad with him still having to deal with the weight he's imposed onto himself of "fixing" his family situation.

[twilightofthesandwiches]

I'm starting to think that the soul we control is not actually Kris's, and is instead being held captive as a part of whatever plans Kris is wrapped up in. The phone call in the kitchen had a few parts that I found alarming, "police sacrifice," "need soul," "without it, Kris will..." The soul existed when we were creating the vessel, before ever meeting Kris, and Kris created a fountain while the soul was stuffed in the couch, so fountain creation is not what the soul is needed for. While being menaced with a hockey stick, we can eavesdrop that Kris acting odd is a recent development, so it's likely that before getting involved in whatever is going on, Kris was a normal human with a normal soul that was entirely theirs. We weren't creating an infant vessel, so it'd be odd if the vessel soul were somehow Kris's for their entire life, if sounding and acting weird is a recent development. Kris only shambles around when they know we are watching. Kris hides information from the player, such as refusing to read the books about humans and souls. In the s-room game, at first I thought Kris resisted approaching the shelter because they were scared. But Kris never resisted approaching the actual shelter. In the game we had the key, in the overworld, they do everything to prevent anyone from getting a key code.

Apparently wanting to help Susie save Undyne warrants getting punted into a box, pelted with a bottle of chocolate sauce, pelted with a hockey puck, and getting repeatedly beaten with a hockey stick. It felt like the soul was in a hostage situation, and we can't inform anyone because Kris can override the player choices they disapprove of. I've never done a weird route, but the videos I've seen look like the soul is instead turning Kris into the hostage who can't tell anyone.

Then there's the aftermath of dying; normally it's just Ralsei and Susie pleading with Kris to get up. Meanwhile, when trying to win against the roaring knight (against whom Kris only does 12 measly damage and is spared from getting k.o'd if you win) the voice that spoke to us in the beginning starts commenting on us the player, us the soul, refusing to concede the fight. Kris is fine, Kris tells us nothing about the knight, Kris smiles if you hold breath more than once, Kris kneels when they know their mother is gonna get abducted

I mean, yeah, there is a reason why Kris' 'Hero' Title in the Prophecy is "The Cage"

The questions at this point, what happened to Kris' real SOUL, and what sort of Grand Plan is worth it for Kris to allow themself to be both a puppet and a prison (... hey, here's the Spamton and Jevil parallels again) to an Amoral Time God.

Especially since, despite their anguish, they are still going along with it on the Weird Route.

What could be worth it?

[emerald9d]

Kris specifically intended to start weird route to get the thorn ring, but abort before the Berdly fight.

Lemme explain. This does pertain to the new chapters.

Even before these latest chapters came out, I’ve noticed… things. Firstly, the fact that you could get the thorn ring and abort weird route before bringing it to fruition was already suspect. Secondly… there’s something about the dialog prompts in Deltarune. Specifically the ones with two responses. And it’s this:

The right side choice is Kris’ intended response. The left side choice… I guess we’ll call that the soul’s choice. Kind of a wild thing to just claim in brief, I know, but bear with me.

At first in weird route its like, we’re just beboppin’ along, picking the dick responses cuz its fun/interesting to see what happens with them.

But then we get to this prompt after the electric barrier button puzzle thing.

Now, the right side choice is the correct one to continue the route. Kris now has input in the route.

From there, it’s the “Proceed” prompts.

Interesting how this is where the soul responses suddenly get really apologetic. But that’s beside the point. Kris is hitting the gas hard on weird route here, all of a sudden.

After this is when you get the rest of the darkner freezing done, and then get the thorn ring, and then face Berdly. But here’s what’s always bothered me, and part of why I’m saying left vs right matters:

Why is “proceed” inconsistently on the left side all of a sudden? Also, what is up with “I’m protecting her from you!” When was that established? To me that’s always felt like a weak justification for… whatever is actually happening here in Kris’ brain. Being on the right side, it’s Kris saying it. And it’s the option that aborts the route, with the thorn ring still in your possession.

Weird route is, in it’s totality, basically DR’s genocide route equivalent, I think we can agree on that. But if that’s the case… then why is there currently at least TWO instances of the regular playthrough having a character say something that actually directs you to do weird route? Spamton in chapter 2, if you beat his first fight with violence, he says

"WHEN KIDS LIKE YOU ARE [Beating People Up],

[Spitting] IN THEIR EYES, THROWING SAND IN THEIR [Face],

[Stomping] ON THEIR TOES, YANKING THEIR [Noses],

AND NOT EVEN GIVING THEM A SINGLE CENT FOR IT!?

YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE ALL THAT EARLIER!

AND BEEN THE FIRST TO OWN MY [Commemorative Ring]

TOO BAD! SEE YOU KID!"

And then in the chapter 3 shadow mantle side quest, in the ice dungeon, there’s that one room with text that says

If weird route was intended as a “you’re supposed to choose not to do this” kind of option like genocide was, you’d think the game wouldn’t outright encourage it, right? The only way I can really square that is that the game DOES want you to start weird route, but only to a point.

The egg room in chapter 4 interests me in this. Namely in this part while Kris is drawing:

Why does Kris seem okay with doing weird route up to a point, but then seem absolutely infuriated about it in chapter 4? Why do they seem… not necessarily evil, but quite jaded and not really interested in darkners?

This game is moving in a direction of asking us to find a particular sequence of chapter save files that are completed in a particular manner, in order to accomplish… something, we can’t really know yet. But it’s something.

And Kris knows the proper sequence already, and knows what the end goal is. And god knows how long they’ve been fucking around with all this to figure that out. It’s no wonder they’d cease caring about peripheral details.

[the-irreverend]

I've come to love (to hate) Carol Holiday's character a lot more after reading this because it adds so many layers to her character that push her character beyond just a psychopathic, pure-evil scumbag who wants nothing more than to hurt and exploits people for their own gain.

As Rudy states and we see at the Holiday manor, she kept the paper snowflakes Noelle made and bronzed them to display in her house. THIS IS CRITICAL because her act of keeping the paper snowflakes and bronzing them demonstrates that she values what Noelle made, and because of that it more or less shows that, however fucked-up it may be, she does have geunine love for Noelle.

Additionally, the act of bronzing the snowflakes really reflects the unhealthy relationship she has with her daughter, as her attempts to make Noelle "strong" and meet her obscenely high expectations are ultimately hurting and damaging her very deeply (not to mention whatever the hell is going on with her relationship with Kris).

In a way, I've come to love her character the same way I've come to love Chara from Undertale! Because while they both did awful things to the people they were close to, there are so many layers and complexities behind their actions, views, and goals that I'm left more intrigued and awe-inspired than I am incensed and angered.

P.S. Don't worry. I know for a fact that Chara is much more sympathetic and much less culpable for their wrongs because they were a LITERAL CHILD that was SEVERELY TRAUMATIZED, and the fact that the problems that existed in their relationship with Asriel were nowhere near as bad as Carol's relationship with Noelle.

[laswells-ashtray]

COD Couples: Things They Do That Annoy Their Partner

NikPrice:

John:

Refuses to buy himself anything out of necessity. He will pick up a shirt he likes while shopping, say, "I like that one," then put it back down and walk away.

Cuts bagels with the knife facing towards him.

Refers to any horse he sees as a "right unit" regardless of the size.

Nikolai:

Saves John in his contacts as ridiculously sappy names, and whenever John sees and changes them, he makes them worse. John's name in his phone is currently Snookums.

Uses the phrase, "Whatever turns you on," in literally any situation. You like to dip your chips in mayo? Whatever turns you on. You prefer watching boxing to a football match? Whatever turns you on.

Will kick his shoes off anywhere in the flat and then complain the next day that he can't find them. John has found a boot lodged between the wall and the fridge once.

AleRudy:

Alejandro:

Eats peaches like he's trying to get them to cum on his face. Does not believe that he slurps and moans while eating them and will do so in public.

Threatens to get frosted tips NSYNC style at least once a year.

Loses every single lip balm he finds. Picks one up around the house that belonged to Rudy? It's gone now.

Rudy:

Cuts his hair whenever it gets long enough to curl properly.

Complains about neck pain and then falls asleep with his neck at a 90-degree angle.

Drops unbelievable lore out of nowhere and then refuses to elaborate. Will stare at someone like they're stupid if they ask a follow-up question or show concern. Was it fatal? No, clearly not if he's still standing there, so shut up and don't waste his time.

The Laswells:

Kate:

Refuses to find a new hair tie if hers snaps. She'll just tie it back together and use it again until she physically can't.

Smokes and then lies about it. If she's going to smoke, she may as well be honest that she did.

Refers to their kitten, Dot, as the mould spore to the point that the kitten responds to it.

Sarah:

Whenever Kate shaves her bush, she'll mutter in the most solemn tone she can muster, "An angel just lost its wings." And every time she's met with the driest look Kate can possibly achieve.

Refers to Kris Kristofferson as "Kris Tofferson" purely to annoy Kate. It works.

The punishment spoon.

[dessknightenjoyer]

WARNING: Massive deltarune spoilers and my running theory on who the knight is below

Im going to get straight to it. I think the knight is Dess and I think that there is more evidence leaning towards Dess than Carol. I think Dess and Carol are the only two realistic Knight candidates at this point.

First off, why it can only be those two. The Knight has Large antlers and when the green room is abandoned, the texture that appears during snowgrave overlays everything, which both Heavily hint at the knight being a holiday, and actually leans more toward Carol being the knight, But I still think it's dess.

Now, for my main piece of evidence for Dess Knight: The Knight Looks. Like that.

Ok, we know from Kris that things about a lightner can change when entering a dark world (their skin turns blue) but the knight is Something Else. It is completely pitch black and able to shift forms on a whim. Not only that, but although we never actually see it in the light world, Based off the drop from the Chapter 3 Secret Boss, It seems to not fully turn back. Let me explain.

Upon beating the chapter 3 secret boss, which is the knight itself, with the help of the shadow mantle, You get an item called a Black Shard. You get this from Susie chipping a piece of the knight's weapon. This item stays a black shard both in and out of the light world. Now, the Knights weapon and the knight both seem to be very similar (pitch black) and share the same properties (ability to transform) so I don't think its too much of a stretch to suggest that the knight and it's weapon might be made of the same stuff.

The fact that whatever this stuff is doesn't transform into any light world object but instead remains a black shard suggests that the knight also remains whatever they are in the light world. If I'm right about this, then Carol can't be the knight cause she is fairly normal in the light world. At least, more normal than whatever the knight is.

Now, the knight's weapon. When the knight first appears, the knight displays what seems to be a bat before grabbing it and transforming into a sword. I think that this little period where it really looks like the knight has a bat is a pretty clear sign it's Dess, as Dess is associated with bats, both from the sweepstakes and one of the examination dialogues from Noelle's computer, where says it shows Dess holding a cracked bat.

Ok it says baseball bat but. Cmon. Now the fact the knight has a sword could hint as Carol, as we know Carol owns and used swords. But I think the knight clearly showing off its weapon looking like a bat is a sign that the knight is Dess.

Next point: Mayor Holiday was Presumably at home when the church fountain was opened. Now, just based off when we see her enter holiday manor, she could have simply made the church fountain and gone home, but there is evidence against this. When examining the Door in the church after chapter 4, It says that a large person could fit inside (just like chapter 2). If you choose the option to turn the handle, Kris turns the handle and does nothing else.

I took this to be Implying that the Knight was in here, and that the knight was in the server room in chapter 2 as well. If this does mean that the Knight is here, it would make Mayor knight less credible as Carol would have had to run back to the church almost instantly to be there as the knight.

Now, the final point I have which uhh. Isn't great. But. The Knight poses a lot and just like has flair that I don't think Carol would have even with weird shapeshifty knight powers. Like look at this pose when Susie is chasing the knight:

Like I just don't think Carol would be like this. From what little we know of Carol and Dess this kind of stuff seems more like Dess. Plus from what we know of the mayor she seems to be more of a planner while the knight seems to just. Summon a titan without too much reason. It doesn't seem like something Carol would do, although thats not really evidence we don't know her.

Maybe I shouldn't have ended on my weakest point but i feel that everything else is pretty strong. Like all the evidence leaning towards to mayor can be explained away easier than all the stuff leaning towards Dess. From what I've seen Dess knight seems pretty popular right now but I just wanted to lay out what's making me lean towards it. Maybe I'll write another post about what I think Dess / the knights deal is if this one isn't too bad. Sorry if I mispelled anything or repeated myself or anything like that.

ADDENDUM: I didn't mention the phone dialogue anywhere cause depending on who is speaking it's meaning changes and I wanted to stick to what we know.

[goomyloid]

“she is grateful. for what, we dont know yet. maybe either kris coming back to her or insisting on making her stronger or both.”

This is really cool, I like the idea that noelle (since she probably hasn’t reached the conclusion that kris is literally being possessed) is grateful in the aftermath because kris changed their mind on trying to go back to their previous relationship, and is showing all of “their new self” to her now.

Like (and I imagine these are her rationalizations to herself) kris developed the power to read her mind, probably through whatever the dream is! They’ve become so strong and commanding- and they want to share that with her. They were going to leave her behind, convinced it was all a prank? but now they aren’t. All of the battles and the pain was for a reason. She just needs to trust them more. She should be grateful. She should be grateful.

i had to show this ask to my friend before answering it because i was like. Why is this person spitting straight fire. “She should be grateful. She should be grateful.” MY GOODNESS 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

this is kind of a random thought thats been bouncing around in my head for a while now, but it might be interesting if the Delta Rune religion gets tied in somehow? we already know noelle is religious but if she came to rationalize whatever’s happening as The Prophecy + kris having contact with the angel or something (hence their supernatural ability to read her mind). worshipping the angel and all… it kind of ties into the idea of her being Grateful that any of this is happening to her. idk its just a thought. i honestly really do appreciate ch4’s neutral-positive depiction of religion/church, its refreshing, but things could still go too far/take a dire turn somewhere.

they just want to make her stronger! to share that power with her! we are helping her become strong enough to achieve whatever it is she truly wants… as long as she does whatever “kris” says

[askfriskandcompany]

Thoughts on Deltarune chapter 3 and 4?

I'm currently stuck fighting Tenna because I'm bad at video games... so I believe I'm probably at the tail end of Chapter 3.

Ralsei needs to stop keeping shit to himself because I KNOW he's keeping shit to himself. I know you know more than you're letting on you little fluff creature! TALK TO YOUR FRIENDS!!!

It occurs to me... Ralsei and Susie seem to have opposite attitudes towards free will and destiny and friendship. Susie never does anything unless she explicitly wants to, but also had to learn how to be nice and make friends, which tells me she maybe in the past didn't consider that to be an option. Ralsei very easily goes along with whatever's happening, but also is paradoxically very adamant about being nice and making friends from the start, and instead has to contend with the fact that not everyone is going to listen to reason.

And then you've got Kris who very obviously is a person with their own wants and opinions and goals separate from the Player controlling them. I would like if I was able to say to them "Hey, Kris, buddy, I'm really sorry I'm controlling your body. This was not my idea. I'm literally just trying to figure out what's going on." but the game doesn't give me the power to communicate with them.

You know how Susie starts swapping controllers around in that one part? I think it'd be fun if in later chapters they learned about Kris' soul-situation and Susie was like "Let me hold the soul for a bit" and then you control Susie for a while until eventually Susie's like "Actually i hate this" and tosses it to Ralsei who holds it a while, until Kris starts looking like they're dying of not having a soul and Ralsei hands it to them. So if anything like that ever happens then I fucking called it.

-TQ

[glitchthedemon]

What I believe chapter three tells us about Kris

Naturally there will be spoilers for chapter three and some for chapter four, so read at your own risk!

As we know, each dark world represents the will of its creator, which is why Susie's foutain was slightly different to the first fountain in the church, and because Kris created the third Dark world when the soul was *outside* their body, then we can assume that this dark world represents Kris's thoughts and wants, at least to some extent

I believe this can be best seen in Tenna, someone loud, somewhat attention-seeking and desperate. Of course, this doesn't really sound like the Kris we know, but the "Kris" we know isn't really Kris, it's us, but since the Dark Foutain was created while we were not controlling Kris, it represents Kris's will minus any of our influence. Back to Tenna, we see him wanting to make people happy, to bring/keep people together, to keep the good old times lasting forever.

The Family

Multiple times he brings up the divorce of Toriel and Asgore, and how the family used to be, including having the Holiday family round a lot. Tenna explains how much that deteriorates after Dess goes missing, Asgore and Toriel breaking up, and Asriel leaving for college. During his break down in board three, he says one line that really stuck out to me, as it didn't sound like he was talking to anyone

Despite not technically being part of the family, Tenna does seem to be a legitamate casualty of divorce, I imagine that as Asgore and Toriel argued more and more, Kris would distract themself with whatevers on TV, turning the volume up as their parents started to yell.

Since Asgore and Toriel are still on poor terms with each other, It's likely that Kris wants the family to be how it was before, with Asriel home and his parents happy together, and this can be scene in Tenna's persistence of them being one big happy family

(there are several other lines of his dialogue that show this)

Keeping up appearances

Tenna is always talking about how great classic TV is, that he's still relevant! Still wanted! still needed! But people have moved on - as Tenna says, "nothing stays big forever" - I imagine it's quite hard to feel wanted or relevant when your newest (and only) friends see that soul possessing you more than they see the real you

Kris was "the weird kid" before the events of deltarune, which can be inferred from a lot of dialogue in hometown, like Bratty's conversation about Asriel. Kris likely felt very alone, especially since they are the only human in their town. But now, with that thing possessing them, they have friends, they get to go on fun adventures, they're hanging out with Noelle again.

But without that soul? who knows what would happen to them and their friends. Would they fade away into the darkness, becoming just as irrelavant as they were before? Would they become useless, without any adventures to be had anymore? Would Susie not want to be their friend anymore once they aren't the same person from the adventures? (remember how much Tenna wanted to impress Susie because she was one of the first people to pay him real attention in so long?)

Minor Events

Didn't know where else to put this but Kris's darkworld events almost directly mirror lightword stuff they had previously experienced

Blue guy awkwardly involved with a broken-up couple

TV world directly affected by some of Kris's last memories before creating the dark fountain and going to sleep

There's likely a lot more but i don't want this post getting too long, so thank you reading this far!! If anyone has any other ideas they'd like to add then feel free!