b1asho

[b1asho]

Just wondering… does Rinshi have a tapetum lucidum? I have seen their pupils glow in a comic you made a while back, but I would like to confirm my suspicions…

(I really like the fact that Riley has a tapetum lucidum. Totally not planning to do anything with that information-)

👁👁-> Exposition dump below cut

Rinshi does!!! (But not all muttreazik do. It depends on the host!). Rinshi's is highly effective and is able to focus the light back in a way that preserves a sharp image. This, combined with their Giant eyes, gives them crazy good day and night vision (and a general sensitivity to light, which is part of why their eyes are lidded most of the time.) They've been like that since birth and are actually supposed be primarily nocturnal according to their "blueprint"!! However, Rinshi has gone with the interesting tactic of not sleeping at night *or* during the day, which has had fascinating consequences on their metabolism, mental state, and other physiological processes.

Other muttreazik, as a result of their host, have structures more similar to canines/felines/etc where they get blurrier day vision as a result of that thing in their eyes scattering light.

Maro also has reflective structures in her eyes that give her night vision (all sundyne do. Drecu do not), but the exact layout/composition is unknown (apparently "better" than animals from earth, though, since they don't seem to lose any image quality! Sundyne are still less comfortable in areas with bright lights tho)

And, most humans have a tapetum lucidum mod!! The mod itself was put into place in humans due to some idea that it'd make spacefaring people more energy efficient (if you can see in the dark, you dont need to turn the lights on)

It kind of caught on more as a designer craze after that because of the eye shine (one of the ways to market/ distinctly signify that youre a Space Human), and then modding was banned so now everyone that coded it into their lineage got stuck with it. Which was a lot of people because a lotta people were going to space back then.

Anyway, the mod used strepsirrhine primates as the 'link' to humans or something. It was designed to bounce light back while still maintaining the quality of images you'd see during the day too (idk, by not bouncing Too much back and having a way to focus some more of the reflected light with less scatter. (?) Sundyne have a perfect natural version of this and they are Not sharing the details) This ineffectiveness, along with the size of the average human eye and pupil not being affected, only makes wh humans slightly better at seeing in the dark than an earth human would be. It's definitely a noticeable difference, tho.

The amount of people who have this mod is to the point where it's not enough of an alteration on its own for you to be considered a splice (so fun fact, Zoe Lee and Devin also have it!! It's actually why Devin needs glasses lol, his is a bit broken). It's more unusual for you to *not* have it XD

And I guess while I'm on a roll about who can and can't see in the dark well, again Dorest and Rox (drecu) can't (they never really evolved to since theyre dinural) Kixeli don't have any adaptations for seeing in the dark (they rely on vibrations/more light let in by big pupils when in deep water. they're also dinural) and Rossetians use their tongue and heat pits for low light areas (their eyes are not built for it, mostly due to them being matutinal). Prectikar can see in the dark using a tapetum lucidum too (they are crepuscular)

[b1asho]

It’s that time agaaaaiinnnnnnn……

https://artfight.net/~Blasho

I was a dinosaur kid so you know I had to pick fossil. I’m going to try to participate as much as I can lol.

I don’t have super great references for any of the characters that aren’t the main 6, but I did do an updated colored version for pretty much everyone. No more crusty old images!!!!!!

[b1asho]

Got distracted drawing moufs

A closer look at what their on-model mouths are supposed to look like, because a lot of the time I don’t draw them super detailed. Unless you count Drecu, who don’t have tongues, humans have the shortest tongue!! We also use our tongues a LOT more for language than the other guys, rossetians are a close second in terms of the importance of tongue movement in their language,

Another fun fact: Prectikar tusks self-sharpen by sliding against the small triangular teeth near the front (which turn outward slightly to rest against the tusks. )The act of sliding the tusks in and out gives them an almost blade-like edge across the top, something that helps them pierce into prey when ramming it (leki, who have the downward facing tusks, also have this feature. It helps them slice when bucking their saber teeth into something rather than pierce. ) Some individuals are absent-minded sharpeners and will move their tusks in and out whenever they’re bored, which can be annoying due to the grinding noise. Others need reminding to do this, since it’s important for their teeth health. Their molars look a lot like ours but a bit bigger with more pronounced points.

(I also need to do a thing about Rossetian ethnicities, because I’m just kind of winging it with tooth and skin coloration lol. Certain groups have higher metal content in their teeth, making them a darker gray. originally developed due to different composition of rocks and soils in the area that they’d have been chewing on. It’s now a genetic thing where their bodies just allocate more iron from their food or from spent blood to their teeth. Their teeth constantly grow, so this is a continuous thing. Improper nutrition will make their teeth Very brittle, and parts will start to flake off. Also, if not given access to some kind of grinding device for maintenance, their teeth will quickly start to painfully misalign and then grow into their skull (there was a type of Rossetian torture method where the prisoner would be put into a smooth room with nothing to chew on. It’s now considered cruel and unusual punishment for any species to withhold something to grind with from a Rossetian individual, so it’s been banned, obviously, but it was effective)

[b1asho]

if you’re up for it, what do your sophonts (I hope I’m spelling that right I’m so tired) find most disturbing about humanity and/or their appearance/looks?

Attitudes may vary, some xenos don't get what the big deal is about their fellows being creeped out by us (kind of like how some humans are with bugs, birds, or reptiles). The General view, though, is that humans are the weirdest looking 'naturally occurring' sophonts (so, excluding muttreazik lol)

Here's some specifics, I'm mostly doing looks because idk:

To sundyne, however, humans don't look scary (in fact, humans are very easily prey animal size). We're just kinda gross because of our oily skin, weird leg layout, and lack of appealing bright colors/contrast.

Cerest: Second only to the uncanny nightmare that is a muttreazik born from their species, there is nothing more unnerving to the Drecu than a human. The thing that makes us creepy is how we look somewhat similar to them (obligate bipeds, arms shorter than legs, kinda flat faces with similar layouts, similar eyes, and our hair has similar placements!) Some of our voices even sound similar to theirs. This relative closeness triggers the in-group/out-group pattern recognition part of their brains, and since we don't match up entirely to the in-group (a drecu) we give off a vaguely threatening "imposter" vibe. It doesn't help that humans are usually bigger and heavier than the average dorest, we could easily get close and use our big arms to restrain and strangle them or break their neck, which unsettles rox by extention.

Kixeli: to them, humans also look a bit like Kixeli that have been stretched and smashed into a different shape (giving an uncanny vibe to some, but to others this is a benefit that makes us more appealing as friends). However, the thing that is mostly cited as creepy is our relative "independence". A lot of humans live alone on purpose and dont constantly seek out a lot of human contact, a concept that is frightening to the average kixeli.

Rossetians: the thing that most rossetians say is creepy is the human body plan and our eyes. humans are pretty big relative to them, have powerful grip strength and arms, and can climb. This gives us a resemblance to some long-legged arboreal predators from the rossetian homeworld (aka its easy to imagine us jumping on their back/forebody to force them to the ground, straddling them with our legs, grabbing their horn, and then smashing their head on the ground a few times. Yikes). As for the eye thing, human eyes are shockingly rossetian-like (down to the amount of visible white sclera), but theyre on a many-toothed hairy bipedal weirdo. Very unnerving.

Prectikar: Many prectikar think that humans look sick and malnourished (having relatively sparse fur and small gangly limbs). In addition, we can run for long periods without stopping, live for a very long time, and we can also mimic some of their sounds pretty well, which overall calls to mind different creepy creatures from their folklore. They don't really see us as "scary", but they're sometimes morbidly surprised or fascinated by our ability to survive grievous injuries despite looking so feeble.

[b1asho]

I LOVE YOUR ART SM!!! You motivate me to improve my drawing skill also what app did you use???

Aghhhh thanks !!

I use ibisPaint 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[b1asho]

What are some common cliches in your alien's medias? Any novel types of fiction or stories?

Hmmm I've never thought about that before... it's not super in-depth but here's a breakdown:

Humans- ironically enough, scifi is the most popular genre alongside alternate history. Theres dramas set on past versions of earth/solar system colonies, what-if scenarios about staying on earth after the apocalypse or about landing on a different planet with no aliens, and space operas about completely fictional humans and aliens. Our cliches are about the same as usual lol

Kixeli- kixeli media is all about escapism, which comes from them using stories to cope with being under imperial rule and to preserve their history. Due to the whole 'everyone isnt living under an oppressive interstellar empire anymore' thing, a lot of their books, shows, etc focus on their own cultural mythology and heritage. The have a lot of fantasy, comedy, and "reality tv" exploring everyones communites/ feel good stories about kixeli living with aliens. A lot of their fantasy cliches are similar to tropes from our isekai anime lol. Due to their general sensitivity to violence, horror/action is often very tame.

Prectikar- Prectikar also currently have a shift towards featuring and exploring their own cultures in their fantasy genres, though theyre more drawn to realism and documentaries. A lot of their media is meant to show how to do something, show someone doing something impressive (like a book or show following a successful tribe) or to record how they've done things in the past. A lot of their stories have been spoken word only until now, and many kar want to make sure that they get a say in how those are published as well as how their history and cultures are written about by others. Despite being focused on accuracy, action, suspense, and drama are still an appeal. Recently, some televised/livestreamed content about wrestling and racing during their courting season has drawn audiences. Romance tropes often involve inter-tribe politics (forbidden love and all that) . Their horror is often of the interdimensional/alien kind.

Cerest- cerest media in the current Seru Empire is all propaganda. Everything has a double meaning designed to reinforce some important belief or message (such as 'don't get too close to the xenos' or 'support your unit with your life'). Common tropes are just derived from stereotypes about other species or discpuraging groups/behaviors that they don't like (for example, the rossetian is the smart one and the prectikar is the dumb one. Or, the lazy ret-class farmer who does not contribute to their unit learns a hard lesson, etc etc). Outside of the current empire things get a bit more interesting. Many cerest on the outside are part of a counter-culture movement that involves doing as much as possible to defy old-imperial values. Their media and books often involve messages about anarchy, embracing xeno 'freakishness', and are often surrealist, absurdist, or just literal nonsense. Bright colors, yellow in particular, as well as body types and behaviors that are starkly anti-imperial cerest (such as dorest-dorest romance or being a rox without quills/prong without elbow spikes) are a common part of outsider media characters and plots. Many other outsider cerest, particularly sundyne who would have been aware of this type of information through being on the knowledgable side of generational gatekeeping, are dedicated to righting historical inaccuracies that have been perpetrated by their old-imperial buddies.

Rossetian- Rossetians looooovvveeeeee historical reeinactments/media set on the homeplanet or early years of the crash. These period dramas are rarely super accurate, instead playing up the horror and struggle. Horror tickles that weird part of their ancestral prey-brain, and is very cathartic for them (most common horror tropes involve facing off against the wild/some kind of predator, but serial killer rossetians are the scariest thing in the world to them so theres also a lot of media about that too). Scifi is also very popular among them, though this is usually not in the realm of entertainment and is instead focused on seriously exploring the possibility of other life or the implications of a new technology (its considered cheesy and mildly offensive otherwise). Science is also a major part of their media, so if it's not a sloppy romcom about two rossetians trying to make it in post-crash wasteland than it's a 5 hour long documentary about the unique makeup of this planet's crust. This is mainly to preserve and revive/redistribute the wealth of knowledge that was lost in the Crash.

Muttreazik- Eastern muttreazik have their own niche media, though it rarely makes it off of social media/video hosting websites. Lots of "youtube" video essays and strings of text posts. A lot of it is about exploring how they cope with the isolation and daily suffering that simply comes with being a muttreazik, whether its due to your host species alienating you or your own body being extremely fucked. In short a lot of it is very depressing, and that's the point. On the opposite end of the spectrum many also write and create in order to connect with other muttreazik, focusing more on the brotherhood/experience they share, escapism, messaging/metaphor that speaks towards embracing who you are, and about standing out from the hosts out of spite/pride. Western muttreazik are similar, and can relate to many of the setiments since they still have to deal with hosts (aka aliens) meddling and encroaching on their lives. However, because they live separately they've preserved more of their own muttreazik stuff that doesn't have to do with reactions towards hosts. Their traditional stuff is all religious and mythological, all of which they consider real. Tropes include all the usual heros/villains stuff that we're used to.

[b1asho]

A bunch of random people from what's widely considered to be the most dangerous and uninhabitable area on the planet have been asked to pose for a camera.

Some rambling:

Masks and goggles are a lot more popular in the SEZ due to high likelihood of particulates in the air (while the habitable zones have been deemed, well, habitable, there’s still a chance that rust, dust, and worse can blow in over the walls.) Daily weather updates are advisories are in place to keep people updated in case there’s a bad air quality day. Kixeli are particularly affected by this due to their permeable and sensitive skin, which is why many wear more coverage in the form of “wetsuits” that both protect them and hold moisture when outside of their communities. Wetsuits are found outside the SEZ too, but don't normally do fullbody coverage. Potentially hazardous conditions are also the reason behind many SEZ resident’s fashion sense including a lot of protective suits and gloves, though that’s also because many of the people there work as dredgers (where that’s the uniform standard ). Muttreazik and Conduits are a lot more common, with many intentionally flocking to the SEZ from the neighboring DRSS to get away from isolating and negative views on them.

From the top left:

A bunch of Kixeli show off a fish they caught. Due to the encapsulated and contained nature of current Kixeli communities in the SEZ, they can only really be self-sufficient to a certain point and often need to look to the outside for certain resources. This normally puts them in a difficult position where they need to interact with the outside with money that they dont actually use within the community itself. To solve this, many try to barter as much as possible rather than giving/getting money for their goods.

A group of dredgers, two Flickers (denoted by their yellow jumpsuits with an orange diamond) and one of their agency’s mancers (dressed in red to show their propensity level.) they prolly just got back lol.

A lone Dorest just kinda staring at the camera. Probably running an errand for his unit.

The Cerest-host muttreazik who’s next is a spear fisher. Cerest-host muttreazik are a rarity to see anywhere, both due to the small population of Cerest outside of the Empire and also their high host- rejection rate (aka they’re often kicked to the street or taken out as eggs). There is relative cultural freedom found in the SEZ resulting from the sheer amount of weird stuff going on in there, you just have to accept it at some point. As a result, you can find all sorts of muttreazik there who would not be around elsewhere, as well as a lot more non-congruent muttreazik whove ended up there as a refuge. Side note, ,weapon laws are veryyyy strict in the DRSS for anyone that isn’t law enforcement/military. The strongest thing the average civilian is allowed to have is a taser (and a weak one at that.) this spills over into the SEZ, but due to high crime rates and the general dangers of going out into the Wreck, many people in the SEZ are allowed to carry weapons that someone in the DRSS would not be allowed to have (such as a knife or bow, real gins are still a no no). That speargun is considered a tool, tho.

Another dredger, this one older. She’s a type 3, which her agency shows with her green uniform color and patch. Scarring, loss of limb, etc is a common trait for many Conduits (in general and in the SEZ, due to the nature of their affliction and many of their more dangerous jobs) but her arm has been like that from birth.

On a related note, next is a Rossetian who’s somehow lost most of his tail. It’s also worth noting that everyone has just gotten out of a period of warfare, which is another reason behind injury aftermath being a common sight worldwide.

This next guy is an alius-class with a human host, on their way to class. In the DRSS, the Tank system (where muttreazik are removed from hosts and grown artificially) usually limits traits that would make a muttreazik alius (such as the significant changes to the human body plan shown here) so they’re pretty rare. When they do happen, they have a very hard time living in their host society (which is why they might come to the SEZ instead).

Another muttreazik up next, this one doing a fun trick with a bunch of silverware he has for some reason. Reds like him can’t really do a lot more than that, but the control exhibited here may mean he’s trying to progress to orange.

Lastly, a Prectikar and his son (or just some other middling from his family, as Prectikar households are pretty much exclusively multigenerational). Luckily he’s more or less capable of hauling whatever that is by himself, since getting a personal vehicle is very hard and they don’t make many in kar size anyway. The piercing in his speaking nostril is for aesthetics and to help him speak human languages better (often known as a tongue or tooth piercing depending on the shape.) the speaking nostril only really has the “lips” and a bump at the middle to control airflow for speaking, and their mouth’s layout also isn’t super good for mimicking humans (the tongue/lips are very long and relatively clumsy, and they can only do short bursts of very low, hard to control sound from the air sac. ) this works just fine for their own languages, but greatly affects their communication if they’re trying to switch away from one of the ‘bridge’ dialects everyone uses to talk to each other) With the piercing, the muscular upper wall of the nose channel can be trained to press the piercing against the sides or bottom to produce more humanish noises. To avoid compromising or blocking the airway, these are normally minimal in size etc (which also makes them different than a cybernetic vocal implant, also since there’s no electricity involved lol. )

[b1asho]

I AM OBSESSED WITH YOUR BLORBOS.

I greatly admire the detail you have put into their designs and personality.

Aghh thanks

[b1asho]

Mostly for my own reference of what they wear/just for fun since the old one ive made is so old. Here's some info lol:

All of Riley’s clothes are pictured here, he doesn’t own any others (he also only has the boots). They’re mostly second-hand from somewhere or another, but his red jacket is actually a gift. he doesn’t really care about what he looks like and will wear anything that’s comfortable. The badly-fitting dress shirt/black pants are from the agency, it’s the uniform you’re supposed to wear when not in the field (the field suit is the yellow one. At other agencies they could be color-coded to your conduit type, but at this one they’re just whatever ones they have available). Mask and goggles are also provided for if they’re in a more hazardous areas. Rare arm and leg reveal, because he doesn’t like those being uncovered (he’s always wearing layers when in public).

Zoe doesn’t usually put that much effort into outfits unless there’s a specific reason. Generally doesn’t dress super feminine, but will wear skirts or rompers on occasion. Currently only really wears her purple sneakers, but also has a pair of sandals and dress shoes. She usually wears tees, shorts, sweatshirts, or any other casual/comfortable clothes. She’s also a big fan of bright colors, and has a lot of clothes because she impulse-buys. Her work suit has been patched up a bit (which is why there’s different colors), and she’s fitted it with zippers as the arms so she can expose her arms if she wants to use RUU (otherwise, it’d rip her sleeves.) she also takes her arms off to sleep

Devin coordinates his outfits for whenever he goes out, he has a more limited wardrobe than Zoe but that’s because he only buys and keeps things that he knows he’s actually going to wear (he has a lot more shoes tho). Likes tank tops, tees, and button up shirts, and jeans (basically likes being stylishly unkempt/cool and showing skin lol). He has a lot more pockets (even a whole belt of pouches) for all his tools and gadgets. Zoe thinks it’s embarrassing that he never wears a shirt to sleep.

Lee has a lot of clothes that cost a Lot of money. Other than her athletic or sleep stuff, all of them are formal/business casual, and she likes to dress more masculine. She has a lot of old school uniforms/merch (for example, the sweatshirt she’s wearing in the pjs one is from a school she got expelled from lol). Particularly fond of vests and turtlenecks. Her work suit is not agency-issue, she bought it herself (which is why it looks a lil out of place. It’s very fancy and is specifically made for type 4s, and has outlets on the fingers for the RUU to go through to help contain it and prevent is from damaging the suit.). She knows that her clothing makes her stand out a bit, and likes giving it away and sharing it.

Like Riley, pretty much all of Rinshi’s clothes are pictured here. They’re all either “borrowed” or have been provided by the agency or the Empire (they won’t buy new clothing unless absolutely necessary, seeing it as a waste of resources). Nothing really fits quite right even though they’ve modified it to better fit their proportions, which is mostly fine because they don’t like wearing anything very tight that would call attention to their body shape. They dont like wearing colors other than black/gray and white (and is absolutely mortified at the thought of wearing an all-yellow shirt such as the one Zoe’s wearing). They generally believe that they need to look presentable/not ‘casual’ at all times (having their hair pulled back like that is a part of this, influenced by Cerest norms). They don’t really have their Cerest clothing anymore, it’s all been repurposed or destroyed (including their old better-fitted shoes). Dresses conservatively and human-masculine to better align with their Sundyne-feminine role, but secretly would like to wear other human clothes. Their earrings are made out of blast-glass, a substance that was formed during the Crash that can be found all over the SEZ.

Maro also has a very limited wardrobe because no one just has Sundyne clothes in the DRSS. All her stuff is hand-modified. While she doesn’t exactly walk around in public, she focuses her outfit on looking professional around Rinshi and whoever else knows what she is, and has adopted human-masculine clothes to present as Sundyne-female. Her Cerest formal clothing is actually what she was wearing during the Incident and when she fled the Empire-it’s not what she would have typically been wearing over there. the only major difference is that she wouldn’t have that dress-like thing draped on her back/tail and in front of her legs, there’d only be the shirt and pants. This outfit is stolen from a male minor noble from another clan, and she wore it for the explicit purpose of adding insult to injury when she challenged her father for the throne (basically a way to guarantee that she had seriously pissed off everyone there as much as possible so they would actually pay attention to her). There’s definitely other things going on with her choice to crossdress, but she’s convinced herself it’s only for practicality and optics (which is why she still keeps her hair styled like that and wears big earrings. To be taken more seriously in conversation. Totally). Cerest Jewlery for lower ranks is typically just blends of cheaper metals colored yellowish. Maro’s are made out of brass with lil chunks of lapis lazuli in there (courtesy of Rinshis mineral/metalworking skills. Otherwise, no one else would have given her those)

[b1asho]

Is it reasonable for me to be attracted to your prectikar species? Or is that not cool? One of your sophonts seemed to feel weird about the idea of "xenophilia" so I wasn't sure if that was a universal sentiment.

I don't think it's weird, in fact thats kind of flattering lol. People can feel however they want.

Tldr its kind of the same thing in canon, but there's also a lot more extreme mixed feelings about that kind of thing so heres an exposition dump:

There are quite a few people who do have feelings for other species, and consider it normal and natural (after all, theyre all sophonts. As long as youre abiding by age and consent stuff, theyre just another person who looks a lil different lol) Love is love, what you like works in mysterious ways, etc etc. In other words, if you were in wh theres also a prectikar out there somewhere who feels the same way about you.

Others, though, consider it a little strange or just dont understand it, and many don't experience any kind of feelings for other species (their response is "that's an alien" rather than "wow they're a pretty person", a sentiment that leads to problems beyond relationship ones too). Most are fine with it or more or less don't care that much, similar to 'meh if theyre happy" attitudes or just 'keep it out of my face/dont ask dont tell'.

The term 'xenophile' was originally just meant to describe someone who likes things outside of their norm, which in the current circumstances means aliens. Much like the word cinephile, it's not supposed to be a negative descriptor (and there are a Lot worse words that people use for different species attraction. A lot better words,too, but still). However, it's normally used with "freak" connotation (which is why that sundyne used it) . This is because theres another group of people who see finding xenos attractive as a deviance, and a many of their cultures aren't exactly tolerant of deviances (its sometimes lumped in/treated the same as each species' queer stuff, which causes its own problems).

On the farthest negative end of the "attraction between species" view, people think that theres no "real" relationship beyond a shallow/freaky type thing (similar to views on relationships with kinks, fetishes, etc) and/or that its unnatural, disgusting, and/or borderline criminal (similar to older views on homosexuality etc) In both the DRSS and the Empire, marriage between different species is not officially legal (living together and having a ceremony etc is unofficially tolerated in the DRSS, but anyone caught so much as holding hands in the Empire is looking at fines, jail time, or worse). There's a lot of factors that play into each species' aversion to relationships between other species. Generally speaking: Humans are the most ok with it, but its brought back old discussions about "non-humans" from the gene-modding craze, and since they're new to the whole aliens thing a lot of people don't know how to be normal about it. Prectikar and Kixeli have historically been exploited and oppressed by other species, and thus are protective of the new cultural freedom they've found (more likely to keep to themselves and away from the people who could compromise their way of life.) Rossetians have reservations about the "ethics" of liking other species who are "less technologically advanced" and about the "natural" "biological" divide between species. Cerest share similar concerns, and also believe that they're superior and shouldn't mingle with what they consider sub-cerest. Muttreazik are significantly alienated/hated by other species, and many intentionally avoid "hosts" out of spite or to avoid the conflict that inevitably arises. So, the reason why the Sundyne used that word, for example, is because his species considers liking another species to be a form of bestiality (thanks to their deep-seated cultural reliance on exploiting and othering non-Sundyne for their own gain). Being staunchly unsupportive of cross-species relationships is usually just a smaller part of a larger xenophobic view, one that also means you don't support building infrastructure for them to live alongside you and/or believe that youre a better species than them, etc. So yeah, for every xeno-liker in a species theres a dedicated hater who wants them in jail (and unfortunately some of those guys are in government too)

To reiterate, though, people of different species in canon find each other attractive and fall in love all the time, and I think that's a good thing!! There's just obstacles and opposition lol

[b1asho]

Inspired by this post!!!!!->

https://www.tumblr.com/paradoxbeta/784635153350852608?source=share

Attraction is very subjective human-to-human, and so obviously things get even more subjective when different species weigh in.

This is kind of an insane question to pull on a xeno, because most of them do not think of humans in that way at all. But if made to think about it, you could get some results. These are just random examples from random people, but the general idea is that they focus on stuff that we don’t immediately view as an instant appeal/something worth looking at.

The wider consensus is that it’s a little weird (or gross and unnatural, depending on who you’re talking to) to find another species attractive, but relationships do happen. They’re just fraught with a few more problems than the average couple.

Some other misc info:

Prectikar are by far the least interested in humans attraction-wise. We’re too unnerving for most of them.

Kixeli ears are a lot like frog ears (aka smooth and flat. The earrings they have are attached to the loose ring of skin around them.)

The Sundyne guy is speaking using an implant, which is why the speech bubble is coming from his neck in the second image. You can also tell he’s with egg from the bright yellow sash covering his back(where they are contained). Compared to the other guys, humans are kind of “hard to tell apart” since there’s no particular color or exposed body part that immediately signals if they’re male or female (Kixeli have their skin markings, rossetians have their horns, Dorest and Rox look drastically different, Prectikar are close but they tend to wear clear gendered jewlery for identification purposes). A human with things like thick clothing or body fat can make it less obvious “what they are”, something that a Sundyne would find unnerving.

As you can imagine, GEIA’s thoughts on humans are uhh complicated. She’s very normal about them.

“Met arch” is a Drecu term for addressing your lead Rox (sort of like“my leader” ), and their up-tilted heads+ little antenna tap is an affectionate gesture.

Rossetians have hair that’s similar to an earth mammal, but it’s Only on their privates and in Tha Pouch. So they have a very strong sexy connotation for it. rossetians and humans are pretty similar, and Rossetian/human relationships are also the second most common inter-species pair!

The most common inter-species pair is humans and muttreazik (because most muttreazik are raised by humans and look like humans with a few quirks.) Things get really complicated really fast, though, when we start talking about the low-congruency guys who don’t have a human body plan.

[b1asho]

How have the humans and wildlife been influenced evolutionarily wise by the dragons in their world? A guy named Sawyer Lee has explored this over in his Dragonslayer Codex series “https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eotc_T4EIOw&pp=0gcJCbAJAYcqIYzv” and I’m curious how you would approach the matter.

What do pantalan dragons think of humans?

Appreciate the ask! I don't exactly have a cohesive answer:

Humans are pretty much the same except their early predaors were dragons instead of crocodiles or big cats. Nearly every herbivore is more dangerous than the carnivores (of which there's very few of left in the wild, dragons kinda drove them out) and some even have their own weird fantasy defense mechanisms (such as firebreathing). Everything is also bigger idk. Like the dragons, other animals have features that we'd recognize but are overall nothing like an animal on earth (the only exception being whatever wof primate became humans???) I'd have to draw some to get my meaning across idk XD

The pantalan dragons have never seen or heard of humans (in my version?). If they ever met, Hivewings would incorporate them into the colony structure in some way (maybe childcare because of how small and gentle with babies humans are) and silkwings probably wouldn't really think much of them (probably becoming allies under the same rule since theyd be living together). Leafwings would definitely eat them if given the chance, but some groups may also band together with them to resist hive rule.

[b1asho]

How have your realistic take on the wings of fire dragons interactions with the humans been playing out?

May I ask what your plans are for the clothes of the pantalan dragons will be like?

Thanks for the question!! Answer under tha cut->

I'll answer the pantalan part first because it's kinda shorter: I actually think they might not wear much clothing at all!! This is because they rely on having a lot of exposed body for communication or sustenance. Silkwings and hivewings can see UV and use the different colors bouncing from their iridescent scales to convey emotions, while leafwings spend most of the day with as much of their body as possible in the sun to absorb energy for nighttime hunting and activity. Also, basically all hivewings are nonreproductive workers and see covering/drawing attention to their body or genital region (which is just smooth 😭) as disrespectful to the Queen (their body is nothing special/they don't have anything worth hiding/decorating more than necessary, they're just a worker or soldier). Silkwings also live under this idea, and also don't really get adornments because they're a lower class. Clothing also irritates their bristles, like if you were wearing a very itchy sweater. I might do a drawing for this, but I think they'd mostly just carry bags, maybe hats for the sun, more covering when it gets cold? and I guess soldiers would wear armor. We'll see...

Onto the big evil human text:

Seawings don't care about them at all since humans dont venture that far into the ocean. To most pods they're pests at worst and might be driven off if they get too numerous or start encroaching on more important hunting grounds, but killing them is seen as an extreme because theyre quirky and dont really take that many resources (in fact, they mostly eat plants!); other dragons are much more of a serious threat to seawing authority in the area, so humans are more or less ignored. The only pods that will kill humans are the smaller ones who are doing it for food (some nomadic cultures view them as prey) or out of revenge (there have been cases of humans killing seawings, and generational grudges/fear of the weird little guys drive some to kill humans when discovered.)

Every tribe has a different view on them (and every person in the tribe can have different ideas of them too!) I'd say that humans are waaaay behind in terms of technology compared to the dragons(for reasons I'll explain in a sec). They have a considerably smaller population that is very averse to interacting with the giant intelligent carnivores they share the continent with. Most dragons understand that humans are intelligent to some degree: the clothes and tools they use and the art/language that they make are evident. however, theyre seen more like animals because they aren't dragons. the way humans act and communicate is seen as alien enough to be considered "on a different level" of intelligence, usually assumed to be lower because of their lack of technology and reputation as pests and scavengers. That reputation comes from the fact that they pretty much *have* to steal and hide within dragon territories because they dont have their own land to survive on (and will usually be killed if theyre found to be taking land, depending on the tribe) im kind of playing into the weird dehumanization/marginalization thing, since thats what i found interesting about them in the books->

The rainwing relationship with humans is different than most other tribes because they actually lived alongside and observed humans for a while before humans even knew they were there (rainwings camoflauge/arboreal lifestyle kept them a secret) . This allowed them to see human behavior and culture free from the fear/aggression response humans normally do when encountering a dragon, and it was quickly very obvious that hey these little guys are just like us. Humans were never on the menu for them because rainwings are mostly plant-eaters and humans are too big/dangerous (living in groups and having weapons is a big turn-off for their style of ambush hunting). Also, humans activate a sort of "aaw cute" response for them (this is true for most dragons). So, slowly and carefully, rainwings started to make their presence and non-threatening intentions known. Humans also caught on that these ones weren't going to kill them and it would be a waste of effort/opportunity to try and attack the more numerous dragons that were letting them hang out in the same area, so a sort of peace was struck. They even leave out offerings for each other, though no human has ever been in a rainwing tree village and no rainwing has ever walked into a human settlement. They're still just kind of observing each other for now.

There are no humans on Nightwing island because they got eaten out of desperation. After careful study and even some diplomatic interactions (leaving gifts and attempting to mimic language) nightwings actually acknowledge that humans are an equal intelligence trying to survive in a world stacked against them. the idea behind the study and attempted contact was to maybe strike up some kind of alliance, use them as spies (they dont really get that humans have their own internal divisions and won't all work together) and then maybe pioneer a more sophisticated co-sophont relationship where humans could be pets or servants instead of animals. Great! The queens decision was a very uncomfortable one, a lot of nightwings refused to participate, seeing it as a sort of cannibalism or straight up a crime. but you can't just shake the idea that they're lower after hundreds of years of supporting that idea: the us vs them dragon mentality won out. Off the island, they support a similar view. humans are equals, and thus can be a threat if they ever try to unite and rise up. Nightwings in positions of government in other tribes support the idea that human populations should be kept under wraps, and any human artifacts, settlements, or captives should be studied to make sure they aren't getting too advanced.

Skywings straight up view humans as prey/pest animals, though humans are a bit small for them to bother chasing down most of the time. The bigger problem that humans pose is that they also hunt the same animals that skywings do, and skywings are EXTREMELY territorial. As apex obligate carnivores, it's very important to the skywing population that their food supply is not messed with. Its hard ebough for the central queendom to maintain enough herds to feed the dragons in their territories, so if theres any other pests taking from that resource then fears of famine/shortages start cropping up. Humans are a threat they take seriously and are also a nice scapegoat for any mismanagment/corrpution in the supply lines (blown out of proportion by queen propaganda, but still) so they typically respond with the same violence theyd give to other dragons invading their turf. Settlements are eradicated, individuals are hunted, etc etc. Skywings are taught that the clothes humans wear, the houses they build, and the tools they use are stolen and not built by them. Their language is nonsense, their art is mindless, and they have nothing dragon about them. This is an ideaology that skywings also push about other dragon tribes, though at least they concede that the other tribes are intelligent. Of course there are skywings who think that's stupid and know that there's more to humans (and other tribes) than what the new queen wants them to think, but it's hard to have a different view without being ostracized.

Humans are a new thing to most Icewings! Presently, humans have not made it that far north yet (being stopped by northern skywings. Id say that humans have been around as long as the dragons have, though they originated in the southern regions and have been greatly limited by predation and then by the presence of dragon settlments). They've heard rumors about a weird creature that's very shy but almost dragon-like, and some merchants and soldiers that travel south have even seen some!! Icewings are mostly going off of what they've heard from other tribes, so the idea they have of humans is "annoying weird pests that are kind of silly". If humans start moving north, icewings may have a similar reaction as skywings because of someone trying to get in on their limited resources, but because they have no real bias of their own againat humans (yet) they could form an opinion that's less negative.

Sandwings obviously have very personal beef with humans. A lot of the nightwing/skywing fears about humans rising up/being present in dragon territories at all comes from The Incident, though the wider population doesn't know about the specifics because that'd be really embarrassing. Before that, though, sandwings have been in conflict with humans. The sandwing lands have had the highest population of humans because thats where their ancestors came from. Traditionally, many prides saw them as competition, pests, and definitely edible (an idea that spread with sandwing influence on the continent, most notably in skywings). They either avoided each other as much as possible or attacked whenever they encountered each other (there are several cases of humans killing dragons using group efforts and traps). Uniquely, though, other prides formed hunting alliances with them. Humans can both chase down prey for longer (plantigrade walking+sweat for the win) and weild tools like bows and spears more effectively, making them surprisingly helpful. Their omnivorous lifestyle also meant that they introduced the idea of plant husbandry first, which in turn helped sandwings support more domesticated animals with increased crop yield. Humans would hunt and manage the territory for sandwings, giving up some of their kill and farmed product, and in exchange sandwings would take down larger/more dangerous prey for them or give them stuff they normally would have access to (such as iron tools, paper, glass, etc). this was an unspoken alliance, neither of them fully understood the others language and its debatable whether they saw each other as equal allies or if one still considered their relationship part of a domesticated/trained behavior. Currently, this type of thing is not tolerated, obviously. Any humans living with groups of sandiwngs have been driven off, though some royalty/nobles are allowed to have them as novelty item (as long as they stay under surveillance and with limited roaming space). To sandiwngs, humans are Others, and should not be allowed to mix with dragons as equals. They had their chance, and nothing good has come from it. In fact, they should just be taken out of the equation.

Mudwings don't seem to have much of an opinion on humans outside of what has been instilled into them by sandwing/skywing/nightwing influence. Humans avoid them like the plague because of their size, and they do likewise unless humans do something to antagonize them. Even then, they dont normally kill them. It's kind of like seawings except this indifference is because mudwings find them cute and intriguing (the "noises" humans make are similar in pitch to mudwing children, and they find the way humans look and act to be interesting and amusing. Like a little dragon). They are resistant to ideas about humans being dangerous animals because 1) humans are in no way dangerous to them, they seem to understand the balance they need to strike in order to not get gored to death by a dire-bear sized dragon and 2) thats an outsider tribe idea, and we're resistant to outsider tribes.

Aaand that's kind of it for now, some first-pass ideas. Some oc stuff on the subject-> Osprey has killed humans before back in his old settlement because they were taking some of the farm animals, he felt conflicted about it but those fears were smoothed over by his military indoctrination (phew, so they really were just pests, eveyone thinks that so it must be right). And then the guilt was brought up again thanks to Kelp, who loves humans, has interacted with them before, and really really wants to get to know more about them.

[b1asho]

Kar posting to get back into the drawing mood

Fun fact: kind of like "man,", "kar" can be used to refer to prectikar as a whole and specifically male prectikar. Hokar get an extra syllable because they're special and important in most cultures (idk how it works yet).

a lot of the guys here are pictured in more traditional clothing. Because there aren’t rules against wearing it (in the DRSS…), this kind of clothing is most common in Enclaves and during the courtship season. Traditional games and other cultural practices related to the season also play out in Enclaves more or less how they would have been done on the homeplanet. Outside of areas with a Prectikar-dominant population, things are much more muted. A lot of kar living in human areas just have to deal with the bodily changes with little fanfare(alone or with family, since kar living outside of Enclaves are typically isolated from unrelated people) (though there are apps for meeting up with other people or families in your area to relieve stress or even find a partner!)

[b1asho]

They're going to school :)

Im baaaaaaack. Couldn’t nail the lighting the way I wanted to but i like my background (I used a picture I took in Florida for the colors/location. )

Childcare responsibilities aren’t exactly divided equally in a Rossetian household. Since pregnancy/birth is in no way strenuous for them (unless you count the kinda heavy pouchlings) mothers don’t typically get much maternity leave, the mother is expected to just continue work with the babies in her pouch (or in some cases, in the fathers artificial pouch, or in a they/them pouch you never know). Once the babies start leaving the pouch, they are kept at home where they are cared for by either older siblings, hired help, or relatives (typically anyone in a house who doesn’t have as demanding of a job is automatically put on childcare duty for their direct family members or the family of a spouse etc). This type of work is unevenly put onto women and children, where sons/men in general wouldn’t be expected to do something like that. The direct parents' role in childcare comes in teaching morals/career stuff and providing emotional/financial support, not exactly the day to day food, cleaning, changing, and whatnot since they're expected to have important full-time jobs.

Here, an older sister is taking her siblings to school. She’s defying Rossetian clothing standards with a bit of human flair (the pins/charms, shorts, and exposed neck!!) Taking aspects from human clothing is the current popular trend for young rossetians (lucky for them, since in a lot of cases buying human-made and human-style clothing is your only choice in the DRSS)

[b1asho]

(Sees the expressions ask) What about the Pantalon dragons?

Augh the bugsss

Silkwings and Hivewings can see UV! They move their iridescent scales to flash different colors convey emotions, which happens very quickly. No one else can see this happening.

Silkwing-specific visible signals are done through the antennas, spinnarets/tongue, and general mouth region. different positions mean different things (for example, open mouth/bared spinnarets combined with forward-facing straight antenna means happy :) ). Tongue and arm grasping is a common way to show affection or show that you have their attention (like eye contact for others) but otherwise theyre pretty adverse to touching. Other than ruffling their hair things and rotating their wings for the aforementioned color language, they don't do any other kind of body movement and their face doesn't really move otherwise. They do produce scents that can mean certain things (in very broad and simple strokes, usually only as support for one of the other forms of communication, such as making a Im scared or Lets mate gesture more intense and concrete), but those arent as complex as the pheremones of hivewings (they can still detect and understand hivewing pheremones because of their shared ancestry). Silkwings can speak, but its quiet and wheeze-like (they rely a lot more on the colors). Adults will raise eggs communally. once they hatch and pupate, those kids leave their birth region to go join up with unrelated individuals (who they will work together with to gather food n such. These flocks tend to be small and self sufficient, but there were some larger ones with divisions of labor. Their sizes can fluctuate as adults and kids come and go) Before hivewings did their thing, they were largely decentralized and did not recognize a single authority among their flocks.

Hivewings have more robust communication/emoting system because they're strictly social. A lone hivewing will die of depression, pretty much. The face is very important for emotion (like with silkwings) but they are way more tactile. They use their whole body to convey things, moving their legs, wings, arms, and tail to show other emotions and ideas in tandem with what is being said with their colors (usually while pressing against the person/people they're talking to). They produce pheremones that can induce some behaviors and feelings in others (such as "go forage" or "work faster/follow me" Soldiers can make the "SWARM KILL!!!" pheremone, which can also affect workers). Theyre capable of speech too, but its usually shrill and brief to convey something that their other signals can't show (such as if they're in a low light area or are trying to say something that colors/pheremones are too blunt to convey). Like their name suggests, hivewings live on colonies where there is one queen who has hundreds of kids. Nearly all of them are female, with some males who only associate with the Queen. They dont have a shared consciousness, but a lot of their movements are coordinated together and decentralized (like real bees, murmuration of birds, or shoal if fish) They have multiple queens/colonies across their territories, but currently those queens answer to one Queen (who's doing something with Magic to make them all more like a shared-mind hivemind with her at the center) (I think)

Leafwings emote in ways more familiar to the mainland dragons, using their hood and other frills to emphasize what they're feeling. Their skin is translucent, so blushing is very evident and is a sign of either anger or being flustered. While able to pitch down to an audible range, they usually emit ultrasound clicks to communicate (something that also helps them hunt. When combined with their Massive eyeballs, theyre crazy good at hunting at night) however, the clicks make it harder for the silks and hives to hear them (they aren't really built for verbal communication). Leafwings are mostly solitary and only pair up for a brief time to have kids, where afterwards the female raises them alone. Males are smaller and are more likely to live in little groups, females are all solitary. In terms of society, they don't really have one (at least not in the way a silk or hive would understand). Depending on whether one decides to get rid of the other, multiple leafwings can live on the same tract of land, hunting the same area but not sharing kills or other resources with the others on purpose. They will sometimes communicate and do things to benefit themselves and sometimes each other (such as having a shared herd of animals or one of them making shelters that others can use when they arent there). However, they dont live together and dont speak to each other for casual purposes (mostly to just share something important, like a new invention or danger in the area, before leaving again. They also dont tend to share information with those living outside their territory, so one area of leafwings could have discovered iron while the others are using bronze, and they would never know.). Comparatively, the other see them as completely alien and indecipherable (their skin-color changes make no sense, they live alone and with no queen, they don't do anything with their mouth/face and don't touch eachother, we can't even hear them, they're only out at night, they can't detect our pheremones and can't reciprocate, etc). These differences, along with their physical freakiness (theyre clear-skinned, big-eyed, carnivorous, nocturnal bone-havers. Very scary to the average bug) made it easy to depict them as uncivilized monsters.

I should probably note that I haven't read these books and even on the last post I'm just making stuff up based on what I remember from their general vibe lol

[b1asho]

From seeing your glorious WoF designs, this brings me to. A few questions. 👍🏼

How does each tribe express emotions? How is it seen socially? Can they cry? You also said that Osprey and Kelp stare too much. How is eye contact treated by each tribe? You know what- what is their behavior like? (Like How morals differ, etc. I think you mentioned a bit of this in your first WoF post, actually…)

Uhh forgive me for the large ask o_o… take your time! (Especially since this isn’t about Wreck Hounds).

Oh hoo let's seee......

Rainwings come off as the most expressive not just because of the colors. They emote with their frill and use their hands a lot more than the others, and also flare their wings a lot to use the surface area to show off more colors. This can put other tribes on edge because of how little information is out there about them (most people have heard that the frill only goes up when theyre upset, and gestures like wing flaring and waving the hands give off an "I'm angry" vibe to everyone else, especially because they use colors for tone and no one else knows what the colors mean. Major mixed signals) Rainwings live in collectives with lots of married-in individuals, sometimes reaching over 50 individuals per family. They dont have a hierarchy based on bloodline or sex, and instead have a more merit-based system where people who are good at their job get to teach and direct others at it. Because there are so many people working together at once, it usually means they have a lot more free time than other tribes. The same family can be asked multiple times to meet with their "queen" and theyll send a different person each time depending on the subject of the meeting (leading to frustration and ridicule from other tribes). Rainwing cultures tend to encourage emotional expression and they dont have a system that separates people by authority, which makes them seem rude to the other tribes since that means they just speak to important people the same as everyone else. They can't cry (none of them can) but to show sadness they'll involuntarily turn a muted shade of green, flatten their wings and frill, and sometimes make a high pitched hooting sound. Eye contact is a sign of admiration and attention since they associate it with someone looking closely at their colors.

Mudwings expression standards differ between male and female. Females are characterized as rowdy, outspoken, and intense. Males can emote a lot amongst each other but are expected to be more level-headed and reserved when with a female. They also live in very large mostly communal family groups, but they do have a sex-based division where females govern the group (the governors are decided by strength and popularity, not on any other particular metrics. They are somtimes advised by their group of partners, but this is actually becoming less popular thanks to skywing and sandwing influence). A lot of mudwings are poor or uneducated because their land has been either destroyed by the war or occupied/exploited by another party. This gives them a reputation as beggars and brutes. Their expressions use the ears and "eyebrows" (their thicker scaled protrusions on their brow) a lot, and they also use their wings to emphasize things. They do not move the mouth/lips more than necessary for talking because baring teeth and tusks is seen as very rude. Despite their size, they can make a diverse range of high and low noises. Tone is a lot more important to them than in other tribes (a lot of their languages are all tone). Sadness/a crying equivalent is shown by shivering and panting/whining (a bit like a dog). Eye contact is used only for important people. You don't just go do that with stangers.

Next up are seawings. They emote with their whole body, just not as intensely as rainwings (its more subtle). They use their mouth a lot and can flick their whiskers to show certain emotions (which does not translate well to other dragons, who dont have whiskers and therefore cant quickly connect the movement to meaning something. The mouth thing can also be a bit unnerving, seawings "smile" and the display of teeth can be a bit weird for others). Unlike the previous two, tail posture is a lot more important to them to give off a certain vibe. They don't really use their hands to emote above water, but they become more important below for signing. Wings are mostly just there to swim with or to bare the glow spots for communication. Speaking of that, their bioluminescence is primarily used for language and it takes very intense emotions for the spots to go off involuntarily (compared to a rainwing's colors, which switch outside of their direct control all the time. Rage, for example, can cause a seawing to flash every spot at once, while terror can make them incapable of speaking with the spots). Expressing emotions is something they do quietly and subtly and they rarely ever use any kind of verbal communication when with other seawings. Unlike with mudwings, they are exoected to emote differently around different tanks in the pod rather than just those of a different sex (for example, if you are a lower member of the pod you would be more reserved around a male or female senior). Above the water this makes them seem very unpredictable and quiet, since a lot of their signals aren't understood by the average other dragon. They have a reputation for being secluded and antisocial becaue of how much of their time is spent underwater, but more recently their military exlploits have put them in the spotlight (stories about your troops getting dragged under by deathly quiet, expressionless sea monsters). I explained a little more in the kelp post, but they live in pods with a bull female and male. They can share territory and even combine with other pods to make a superpod with multiple bulls. This hierarchy is upheld through that bloodline, and heavily enforced. When sad, they will usually grit and bare their teeth in a grimace while curling their tail under/closer to them. Eye contact means nothing, to them its more important to look at the body to see the spots.

Sandwing emotes work very similarly to cats. It's all in the eyelids and ears, but the tail is where things differ. Tail emotes are strictly for negative emotions, the tail stays down and completely still during pleasant conversation/when they are calm. Even moving it slightly can cause everyone around you (especially dragons of other tribes) to tense up. They will angle their wings out to look larger when scared or as an "I'm pissed" stance (where they will also twitch them quickly to make them move as part of the display). In cknverations, they will gesture with them too (small waves or flicks usually) but there not really an emotional association with them unless theyre making wide genstures with it (then it comes off as angry or upset, theyre waving their claws around). Sandwings live in small family prides where there is a lead female, a collection of nonreproductive males and females, and their kids. The lead female has a harem which can include other females. It's very matriarchal, but the population of a pride tends to lean male. This is because any nonessential or threatening females get kicked out as early as possible, while the male majority does all the tasks. Sandwings are viewed very negatively by everyone else, volatile and aggressive. They uphold the pride structure through the female dependents of the lead female queen. It is very difficult to get prides to share territory, but most of them were under the same rule of a pride with the most land (until recently). Their social structure means they are always searching for new territory so as to not overlap with other prides, which has led to their expansionist tendencies and attacks on other tribes in the past. That big lead pride split after the 3 daughters started fighting, plot of the books etc. They see eye contact as either a sign of trust or as a precursor to an attack. Sadness is shown by lowered ears and low moaning sounds.

Skywings are among the least emotive (at least relatively). The only noticeable changes in their face are the eyelids,their ability to consciously change pupil size, and ears movements, which normally only happen in small quick fractions (this means that ospreys expressions look comically overexaggerated to other skywings. This is because he is always comically overstressed and has also been emoting more to get his point across to other dragons). Their wings and feathery things are where most of the emotions are shown, and even then its still in subtle changes in their angle and how far away they are held from the body. The most visible changes usually happen only during high emotions (so expressions like snarling or holding their ears/eyes in a position for longer than a second are signs of anger, fear, frustration, etc). I talked a lot about their aerie structure in the kelp Osprey post, but they also have a strict matriarchy and tend to live in grouos that are way smaller and less centralized than other tribes. That is, until recently. The northerners have now "unified" the territories of other skywing groups by force, making the skywing country operate like an aerie on a large scale (unlike seawings who form superpods with multiple leaders or sandwings who enforce one queen over the other queens, they have only one Queen who acts as the matriarch of everyone, with hundreds of suitors and thousands of workers. that means that if you *were* an aerie matriarch you now have to ask permission to pair with one of your males because now you actually arent a matriarch and that male is the Queen's) (they have officials who enforce their orders and get some form of leadership kn thatrole, but ultimately they cant do abythign without consulting the Queen). There is also a lot of wealth disparity under this sysyem. Many skywings live in horrible conditions because of the war, but also because of their focus on supporting a m/f class system and having to work under an exploitative greater aerie power. Now that everyone is a worker for the Queen aerie, that means most of their resources go towards what the Queen decides rather than what is needed for your own aerie. They are very militaristic expansionists because of how large their territories need to be to support themselves. Eye contact is an extreme no-go with strangers or anyauthority, especially if you're male. Sadness is shown by flattening everything against yourself and panting.

Icewings are very loud compared to other tribes. Growling, barking, etc is seen as rude, an extreme response, or childish in other tribes, but it is common for them. They will also yowl/scream to convey messages to their pack members elsewhere in the territory. Emoting with their quills and feather things is the most common, but they will also involve their mouth, eyes and tail (not the wings, though, those stay locked at their sides until use to conserve heat). These movements are relatively subtle but not as much as with skywings or seawings. Despite being more open and obvious with expression (at least vocally) they have a mysterious and frightening reputation because the only time most other dragons see them is when they're hunting or in combat. It's harder to bridge this isolation gap with them than it is with rainwings because icewings live in areas that are just too cold for other dragons to tolerate (and vice versa, icewings are very uncomfortable down south). Like many of the other tribes, they are matriarchal. Packs consist of a pretty equal amount of m/f, with a lead female and her seasonal partner(s). However, this is not enforced by bloodline alone and heirs have no more right to be Queen than any other female. Instead, it is chosen by merit through a series of tests,concluding with a fight against the current Queen. Anyone can enter this thing, even those from other packs. Currently, many packs have voluntarily joined with a powerful older pack to ally against the conflict going on down south. They make eye contact with each other all the time, but not with other tribes. Them "crying" is shown through short wails and rhythmic ruffling of the quills.

Nightwings are very performance-oriented when it comes to interacting with other tribes, so it's hard to gauge what's a natural emote for them and what they're just copying. They're very good at picking up the meaning behind other's emotes, not as deterred by the unfamiliarity as other tribes. Their emotions are largely through the body, tail, neck, and wings rather than the face. The wings especially are an important indicator, since they use the barbs on their digits there to fight off adversaries and fight for mates(so they'll often start baring them when they get upset or excited) They appear to be democratic and value experience/intelligence , but are a lot more individualiatic than other tribes (being solitary hunters like skywings and also the female raises young alone). Leaders are still typically favored to be female and older, thanks to previous eusocial structure like the other guys. Due to unrest in their home territory, this democratic structure has fallen away in some of the outskirts, where instead its just individuals out for themselves like in the old days. No one really knows anything about what goes on over there, so a nightwing could lie through their teeth about their status and customs and still be believed.