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blueshadesfandomstuff · 10 hours ago

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What was Tim’s relationship with his parents like? It seems like they left him alone a lot, based on fanon - is that true?

Tim's relationship with Jack and Janet Drake is...messy. Very messy. There are a lot of misconceptions floating around about how Jack and Janet really were as parents, largely due to headcanons and fanfiction exaggerating their abuse/neglect of Tim. So, we're going to clear all of that up by analyzing how Tim's parents were as evidenced in canon.

From the very beginning of his time in comics, it's clear that Tim's parents are hella neglectful. The writers needed a Robin who would be able to do his crimefighting without the interference of parental figures, so they gave him rich absentee parents to achieve that.

Tim's parents mean well; they do genuinely love and care about Tim, considering that the first glimpse we get of them is the Drake family enjoying a trip to the circus together. At face level, they look like a typical happy family.

Batman #436

However, Tim's parents have a tendency to take long trips around the world for their job and leave Tim behind with the nanny. They were noted to be gone for long periods of time during Tim's Robin training, only keeping in touch with their son through halfhearted postcards promising to call soon. They also were prone to extending trips or leaving without warning, giving Tim very little input or notice when it came to whether or not he would be able to spend time with his own parents anytime soon. It got to the point where Bruce became suspicious of the Drakes’ neglect of their son.

Detective Comics #618

Robin #1

Robin #11

“I guess that sums them up! Never know where they’re going to be—or when—or even how long!”

Ah, yes, this is the proper way to raise your child.

So, it is firmly established that Tim’s parents are inattentive and neglectful. They love Tim in their own way, but not enough to be at home often and spend time with him, or to take him across the world with them. Granted, they are incredibly wealthy people with a large company, but…so is Bruce. And Jack and Janet don’t even moonlight as vigilantes, which doesn’t give them much of an excuse.

(I do think that comics tend to use Bruce’s relationship with Tim as a juxtaposition to show just how harmful Jack and Janet’s parenting is for Tim, such as neglecting his emotional needs, not respecting his privacy, etc. Over time, this leads to even Jack having this silent rivalry with Bruce over Tim’s affection. But I’ll get to that later.)

To contrast, here is Bruce offering to take the night off to stay with Tim and comfort him after his parents have been kidnapped:

Detective Comics #619

And Bruce has a reputation for being a questionable parental figure, which just makes Jack and Janet look even worse in comparison.

Then the Drakes are poisoned by the Obeah Man: Tim’s mother dies and his father falls into a coma. Janet’s term in comics was short, so we don’t know a lot about her personality or how she was as a parent, other than that she was not home often. When she and Jack were kidnapped, Janet seemed to express regret about her choices in life, possibly including not spending time with her son while she could.

Detective Comics #620

Otherwise, that’s about it for Janet. There is a fever dream Tim has when he’s dying of the Clench in which he imagines his parents both alive and knowing that he’s Robin. It’s a happy scene, with Janet preparing a home-cooked meal and being warm and present, which could possibly be Tim’s subconscious wishing that this was how his life could have been, but we don’t know enough about Janet’s actual parenting to do much with that. I personally choose to interpret it as Tim’s longing for the ideal family dynamic he never got to have, with both his parents home and acting like a real family.

Batman Chronicles #4

Now, Jack and Tim’s relationship is rocky from start to finish. One minute they’re getting along, the next everything is a disaster, over and over until Jack’s death.

After the Obeah Man incident, Tim is left grieving his mother and worrying about his paralyzed, comatose father. He continues to live with Bruce at Wayne Manor during this time, hoping for Jack to wake up.

Robin II: Joker’s Wild #4

Tim becomes conflicted over the fact that, with the Waynes, he feels for the first time like he’s part of a real family. Which is...very telling. But we already know how neglectful Janet and Jack were of Tim, so are we really surprised? The closest thing Tim had to a “real” family before Bruce was Mrs. Mac the housekeeper.

Upon waking from his coma, Jack has this great epiphany that he’s going to be a better father for Tim and right all the wrongs he made in life.

Batman #480

“I’ll make it up to you—starting tomorrow!”

With his father in a wheelchair and needing all kinds of medical care as he recovers, Tim feels obligated to move back in with Jack and take care of him.

Batman #480

Tim writes his dad a letter venting all of his inner conflicts and harbored resentment, saying that he never felt like he was part of a family before becoming Robin and meeting the Waynes. He wishes he could tell Jack the truth instead of hiding the most important part of his life from him, which causes a rift between Tim and Jack that honestly never fully heals until War Games.

Aptly, the letter is addressed, “To the Father I Never Knew.”

Batman #480

As it turns out, Jack Drake is deeply insecure when it comes to his place in Tim’s life. Jack has no regrets about neglecting Tim until he learns that Tim has a new father figure in his life, AKA Bruce, the resident Dad Supreme. Jack becomes jealous of Bruce, trying to get back into Tim’s good graces because he knows that, in comparison, he’s looking like a pretty shitty father compared to Brucie Wayne, the irresponsible playboy. Ouch.

Batman #480

Robin III: Cry of the Huntress #3

This all comes to a head when Jack gets angry with Tim for acting out, cutting school, getting into fights, etc. In turn, Tim gets fed up and confronts Jack about his poor parenting.

Robin III: Cry of the Huntress #4

“Who is the son you know, Dad? You don’t know me. You never bothered.”

By the end of the miniseries, they eventually work things out and apologize to each other. Honestly, the biggest problem Tim and Jack have when it comes to their relationship is miscommunication. They both want to be a real father and son, but there are too many obstacles in their way (Tim’s Robin activities, Jack’s inability to care about his son unless it’s convenient for him, Tim’s bond with Bruce) that keep them from having the close relationship they both clearly want.

Robin III: Cry of the Huntress #4

Jack really does try to be a better father for Tim over the next few years, but he makes a lot of mistakes along the way. After being kidnapped (again), Jack tells Tim that he’s yet again going to try and be a more attentive father. (As if Tim hasn’t already heard this speech before lmao.)

Robin #7

Jack tries to spend more time with Tim, but his version of spending time together is mostly just springing new plans on Tim and giving Tim little say in any of it.

Robin #11

Robin #12

(It also shows how little attention Jack pays to Tim, since he doesn’t notice that his son has a literal six-pack and could probably benchpress his own weight by now.)

Jack eventually falls in love with Dana, his physical therapist, and she more or less takes up all of his attention for the time being. Tim once again falls out of the spotlight. Tim is partly relieved about this, since it means that Jack is less likely to catch on to Tim’s Robin outings with Dana as a convenient distraction.

Robin #12

Robin #15

Jack goes to all the trouble of making plans with Tim, only to cancel the moment something shiny and new moves into his line of sight. Great parenting, Jack. A+ work. Tim sees this as less of a problem than it is, thanks to his second identity, but any other child would be severely impacted by this “whenever I feel like it” method of parenting. Regardless, Tim and Jack’s relationship at this point is on its way to leveling out for the time being. They still don’t communicate very well, but they generally get along with each other.

After Tim runs away from home and causes a whole incident during No Man’s Land, Jack sends Tim away to Brentwood Academy, a boarding school literally in the same city as them, as punishment for being a lil hooligan. Just say you don’t feel like dealing with Tim anymore and move on, Jack.

Robin #74

When Tim is at Brentwood, Jack informs Tim that he and Dana are engaged through a phone call. Tim is not even an hour away, but Jack figures why waste a day spending time with his own son to tell him the good news when you can accomplish it with a phone call, right?

Robin #78

It isn’t long before Jack Drake goes broke due to his company losing money or however bankruptcy works, and Tim gets to leave Brentwood. Jack chooses this time to once again try to work on his relationship with Tim...

Robin #100

...and then slides right back into ignoring Tim when the loss of his fortune makes Jack too depressed to do much of anything. Not that it’s a huge loss, considering that when Jack does bother to pay attention to Tim, it doesn’t often go well. He has a reputation for getting overly aggressive when Tim acts out, and he has a habit of dragging Tim into obligations he doesn’t want to do for the sake of looking like a present parent, trying to exert control over Tim that he hasn’t quite earned.

(It’s also interesting the way Tim starts to question Jack’s decision, then quickly stops himself and agrees to whatever it is Jack wants, as if Tim has gotten used to being allowed to think and act for himself during his time with Bruce, and now he’s remembering that things are different in the Drake household. He has to go back to Good Obedient Son mode, and if that doesn’t make you sad then I don’t know what will.)

Batman #480

Robin #45

Robin #92

By the time Jack finally gets out of his funk, Tim (of course) forgives him immediately, so they’re back on track again.

Robin #116

(It’s also worth mentioning that Jack forgot Tim’s birthday. Yeah, he was going through his own depressive spiral at the time, but still. Dick move.)

Robin #116

Honestly, I owe a lot of the good moments in Tim and Jack’s relationship to Dana’s influence. She’s a great stepmother to Tim and she helps rein Jack in when he’s being an asshole. Her parenting style is far more caring and considerate compared to Jack’s, who tries to mold Tim into his idea of a perfect son: obedient, masculine, and quiet (whenever he feels like paying attention, that is).

Robin #122

Robin #127

Robin #45

Robin III: Cry of the Huntress #1

Robin 80-Page Giant (2000)

Where Dana is understanding and patient, Jack is commanding and rigid. Over time, Dana softens him enough so that Jack is more of a well-meaning dad clumsily trying his best than an abusive asshole, but still.

Jack acknowledging that he screwed up and is trying to fix his and Tim’s relationship has been a major plot point for years up to this point, and it remains a central part of Tim’s civilian narrative for as long as Jack is alive. Jack tries to fix what’s wrong between them, and Tim is eager to have a closer relationship with his dad, even if it’s difficult to accomplish due to his Robin activities. I repeat: They both want to have a good relationship. It isn’t that Jack simply doesn’t care about Tim (which, it could be argued that he didn’t care about Tim until Janet died). They both really do try to fix what’s broken between them. It’s just that Jack can’t accept that Tim is his own person, and Tim can’t risk compromising his identity.

Robin #71

For a small while, things are okay between Tim and Jack.

Robin #124

But pretty soon the inevitable happens: Jack snaps when he catches Tim in a lie about joining the football team to explain a black eye. Instead of confronting Tim about it, Jack decides the best course of action is to ransack Tim’s bedroom for evidence of his delinquency.

Robin #124

Jack inevitably finds Tim’s Robin gear in the closet. Instead of asking Tim about it, like a sensible human, Jack’s second genius move of the day is to go all the way to Wayne Manor and point a gun at Bruce’s face, demanding he return Tim to him.

Robin #124

(Personally, I think Jack’s reaction wouldn’t have been so violent if it weren’t for the fact that it’s Bruce, whom Jack was already jealous of for being closer to Tim than Jack ever was.)

Robin #125

With Jack threatening to expose everyone’s identities and ruin their lives, Tim agrees to give up the Robin mantle to keep Jack quiet.

Robin #125

After that, things between Tim and his dad are relatively okay. Tim is happy to be having a normal life for once, and Jack is appeased now that he has Tim all to himself.

Teen Titans #14

Then War Games rolls around and Tim once again dons the cape and boots to help in the gang war, and he and Jack finally have an honest conversation about Tim’s Robin activities. This time Tim isn’t just giving in to make his father happy, and he’s not struggling with the question if maybe he’ll be better off as a civilian, because he already tried that and he knows now that this is the life for him.

And for once, Jack actually listens to Tim.

Robin #130

They come to an understanding after that. For the first time in Tim’s whole life, he has an honest and loving relationship with his father.

Robin #131

Of course, this is about a week before everything goes to shit and Jack is murdered by Captain Boomerang during Identity Crisis. You win some, you lose some.

(What makes it even worse for Tim is that Jack asked him to stay in that night, but Tim chose to go out and help, so he wasn’t there when Boomerang came for Jack. Oof.)

Identity Crisis #5

In Jack’s last moments, he tells Tim that he loves him and that being Robin is a good thing and he should never turn his back on being a hero.

Identity Crisis #5-6

Unsurprisingly, Tim takes the loss extremely hard. It almost rivals Tim’s reaction to Bruce’s death, probably. After all, it’s his dad. Sure, Tim and Jack had their problems, but he was still his father and he loved him.

I also think a big part of it is that Jack was taken at a time when he and Tim were finally starting to see eye to eye. They finally had the relationship they both always wanted, and then a week later Jack gets murdered. I see it as Tim mourning the relationship he and Jack could have had, rather than the one they did. Tim never got to see what it would have been like to have a perfect relationship with his father because the second everything finally fell into place, Jack was taken away from Tim.

Identity Crisis #7

Robin #167

“Sometimes it’s for Bruce. Sometimes it’s for Conner. But a lot of times, I do it for you. Because you were brave enough to understand the man I wanted to be.”

DCU Holiday Special (2009)

Teen Titans (2003) #34

(Tim’s guilt and grief becomes all-encompassing to the point where he invents a fake uncle just to avoid being adopted by Bruce, but that’s a story for another day.)

Sooooo yeah, that’s about it. Tim loved his parents and they loved him back in their own ways, but he never had a perfect relationship with either of them by any definition.

#for fic writing reference #Janet Drake #Jack Drake #Tim Drake #dc comics

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blueshadesfandomstuff · 10 hours ago

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I wanna talk about Janet Drake

I’m not against exaggeratedly evil versions of Tim’s parents, tbh. It’s fanfiction, if we can depict an Exaggeratedly Good version of Bruce (which we can, and I do, and I love) then we can depict the Drakes as Exaggeratedly Bad. As someone who personally identifies with Tim, and his brand of complicated parental abuse in particular, I find it cathartic to uncomplicate that abuse and rescue him from the Obviously Evil Bad People.

That said, since much of comics lore is passed down word of mouth, the oral tradition surrounding Tim has developed this idea of Janet as The Worse Parent between her and Jack that was never really present in the comics. We see much LESS of Janet, and we have 20 years worth of comics depicting Jack as a neglectful hotheaded idiot who ultimate does love his son. More importantly, Jack isn’t very much LIKE Tim, so there is a habit to attribute Tim’s traits to his mother… and, as someone who really really identifies with Tim, Tim has… some negative traits. Tim can be a bitch sometimes. He’s fiercely intelligent and sweet and kind, with a strong sense of justice, but he can be cold and judgmental and unthinking - he fights those traits, but he does have them.

And it is perfectly fine to depict Janet that way. I’ve enjoyed depictions of Cold Calculating Janet Drake, but it’s not the ONLY option, and I want to challenge fans to consider different avenues. Tim could pick up these traits from anywhere: a nanny, Mrs. Mc Ilvaine (”Mrs. Mac”), a teacher, tv, Sherlock Holmes novels, Bruce Wayne himself. Tim is capable of not being like EITHER parent.

So, what do we KNOW about Janet? (I’ll also touch on Jack, but only in scenes he appears with Janet.)

When Janet was first introduced she was depicted as a gentle but “modern” woman. This was written in 1989, told by a 13 year old Tim, so this theoretically was meant to take place in 1979. I’m not here to give a lecture on the history of sex discrimination in the united states, but much of the legislation protecting women in the workforce or surrounding women’s bodily autonomy would have been very very new in this initial depiction.

Here, Janet is shown to be encouraging, emotional, maternal, and projects her own feelings onto Tim. Jack is shown to be slightly sexist, possibly discouraging, but not overbearing. And the artist is shown not to know how to draw children.

To insert some speculation, I think it’s important to note all the Drakes witnessed a terrible murder/accident that day. I point this out, because this is the last time Jack and Janet are depicted this way. It’s possible they changed as a result of this event specifically.

However, this is also a story being told by Tim. It’s also possible these events aren’t really “real” at all, and Tim is misremembering what his parents were like as a three-year-old, possibly projecting a more palatable version of his parents into the narrative. This is entirely up to personal interpretation.

In fact, the Drakes are shown in Legend of the Dark Knight attending Haly’s Circus, and the artist knows what a toddler looks like and they’re depicted as already having a slightly strained relationship. Jack is clearly on the defensive, and Janet seems to be passive-aggressive, though she could just be attempting to explain the situation to her toddler honestly. The intended tone isn’t especially clear.

I do want to point out, in this depiction, Tim isn’t being carried like he was in the previous one. He’s walking ahead of his parents, which isn’t a terrible horrible crime, but could be dangerous in a crowded place like the circus. Might be a subtle hint to his parents overall neglect.

Back to A Lonely Place of Dying, in Tim’s memories of the night he discovered Robin and Dick Grayson were the same person at nine-years-old, his parents are home, and watching TV together while Tim played… trucks, idk, in the living room with them. (This is semi-interesting, because you could say “oh, Tim liked vehicle toys as a kid” or you could extrapolate that this is another subtle indication of Jack’s sexism, providing Tim with appropriately “boy toys.” Either interpretation is valid. If Tim was assigned female at birth, would they have been given “girl toys,” or allowed to play with whatever they wanted?)

This is, to my knowledge, the only panel of the Drakes when Tim is between ages 3 and 13. They’re all together, which might indicate that the Drakes were home more often when Tim was 9, only later going on business trips when Tim was “old enough” but…

This is Tim’s boarding school when he’s 13. While most boarding schools in the US are for grades 9-12, Tim is clearly not a freshman at age 13; look how much younger the other kids in this panel are. In the US, the youngest you can attend most boarding schools is 7.

That means Tim could have begun going to boarding school anytime between 7 and 13. He most likely spent all of middle school in boarding school, at least. There are an almost infinite number of possible ways the Drakes handled having a business that required lots of international travel, an archeology hobby, AND a very young child. Janet staying home until Tim was 7, 11, 13, is equally possible as the Drakes having a nanny until 7, 11, 13. Tim just doesn’t talk about that period of his life very much.

(”What about Mrs. Mac?” - it is unclear when Mrs. Mac begins working for the Drakes. We only see her when Jack comes out of his coma. She could either be a long standing staff member, or a recent hire.)

Note: I’ve seen it said that it’s canon that “According to Tim, when his parents were home, they made a point to try and include him in their activities, bringing him along to events that were normally adults only.” I have never seen this panel, or I don’t remember it, so I cannot confirm, but I also cannot debunk this because… comics.

By the time Tim is 13, Jack and Janet are away on business trips a lot, with limited communication, and no firm return date. If I’m feeling generous, I’d say it was harder to communicate internationally in 1990 than it is today. If I’m not feeling generous, I’d say the Drakes are extremely wealthy, and international communication was easier than ever before in the 80s and 90s. They’re not even going home to see Tim in a week or two, they’re going home and calling Tim at boarding school in a week or two.

Even Bruce thinks its weird, though he doesn’t say so to Tim’s face. It’s written almost as if Tim’s parents’ neglect was meant to be a plot point that just got forgotten about.

Tim’s parents are fighting at this point (their poor assistant), but Janet still goes with Jack on these business trips. And she’s clearly involved in the business, somehow, but the comics never SAY what Janet’s JOB is. We’re told Jack is the exec, but Janet is ONLY ever referred to as Jack’s wife, though they’re later described as the “heads” of the company, plural.

Just to be clear, this is Jack’s business. There’s a perception that Jack is a bad business man because he and Janet fight over company decisions, and Jack looses the business after Janet dies, but Jack looses the company YEARS after Janet dies, and maintains it for about a year after No Man’s Land at that. We’re not told how Jack looses the business, but he’s got to be doing something right. Janet isn’t necessarily the “real brains” of Drake Industries.

And I’m not… gonna… touch the… exploitation and racism because… I’m not qualified to do that. But, here’s the panel. The Drakes sure seem exploitative and racist in their business decisions. Someone else can… analyze that with more nuance.

Regardless how how long they’ve been fighting, when their lives are in danger, the Drakes fall back into a loving husband and wife. Their marriage may be falling apart, but they do care about each other.

I want to show these panels because it shows that Tim and Jack do have things in common. They’re both level headed in a crisis and can be somewhat cold in their practicality. Janet meanwhile and silent. Jack is later willing rant and rave at their captors, but Janet remains silent.

That is, until they’re alone, and she finally lets herself fall apart.

God, Jack can be obnoxious. Janet just looks miserable and resigned. I actually think Tim takes after his parents in this respect in equal measure. Tim can have a temper, but he can also be fairly melancholy and defeatist.

Jack keeps reminding Janet to be strong and in control, which could be period typical sexism? But Jack seems so practiced and ready with the words of encouragement, and with Tim’s history with depression, I wonder if Janet has an inclination towards it as well.

As the end approaches, when Jack brings up Tim, Janet seems to have a lot of regret. She talks about “wasting” the good things, and I don’t think it’s too big of a stretch to assume she’s talking about time spent with her only child.

From this point on, Janet is at times spoken of, but not seen. Like here, when Jack says Janet wouldn’t approve of him and Tim being so “far apart.” He says this after he tells him he takes back his threat to send him back to boarding school, which might imply Janet was against the idea of boarding school? Though she obviously lost that argument when she was alive.

Jack will of course renege on this later, but that’s Jack Drake for you.

Or here in Tim’s illness induced dream, where he gets everything he wants. Though, since this is a fantasy of Tim’s, where his father and girlfriend are both more accepting and understanding than they are in real life, I would take this depiction of Janet with a grain of salt.

After loosing Drake Industries, Jack thinks about Janet (though, they call her Catherine/Cathy for some fucking reason) during his depressive episode. And… uh…

Hallucinates a Valkyrie???? Is this symbolic of suicidal thoughts, or is she… real? Or is he seriously hallucinating?

Anyway, we’re not here to discuss Jack’s mental state, the fact that he forgot Tim’s birthday, or that concerning “I was going to knock some sense into you but you’re still bigger than me” statement from Tim, we’re here to talk about Janet. And even though this entire arc is about Jack mourning his first wife, they don’t SAY anything about Janet herself at all. I mean, they don’t even get her name right, so I guess what was I expecting.

Then there’s Origins and Omens, which also doesn’t say anything about Janet, except that Tim’s memory of her is faulty - Janet was poisoned, her assistant Jeremy’s throat was slit on television, but Tim seems to have conflated the death he did see with the death he didn’t.

The only piece of canon to suggest that Janet might be cold, is Tim compares her to Thalia. And even then, he’s really just saying Janet was protective of him. It’s kind of a scary look to make at your kid, but Bruce does the same thing, so.

I do want to say… it’s not 100% clear if Tim is even talking about Janet. He could be talking about Dana. Dana was observably protective of Tim, though I don’t think he’s ever called her mom. He PROBABLY means Janet.

And finally we have Tim visiting his mother’s grave (in a duel Christian/Jewish cemetery, make of that what you will), where Tim says she was “a little religious.”

And that’s it! That is all we know about Janet Drake in New Earth. Hardly the Mom From Hell, but she isn’t perfect. I’d be interested in seeing some alternate depictions of her within the fandom.

I’m still gonna eat up Terrible Parents From Hell like a starving puppy dog, though. Just some food for creative thought.

#for future fic writing reference #dc #Janet Drake #Tim Drake

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