bugismymiddlename

[bugismymiddlename]

This is the best laugh I've had in a while!! Seems like you guys LOVE to throw the word "Toxic" so carelessly, it makes me wanna keep singing "Toxic" by Britney Spears over and over everytime I hear it (that'd be a lot of singing, that's for sure). As you can clearly see, Mileven is considered the biggest ship in the show with the highest toxicity level among fans of Stranger Things. And people clearly seem to believe it off of seasons 2-4 and sometimes still even the beginning (season 1). And you know what? Since we believe so much that Mike and Eleven's relationship is without-debate, unhealthy, let's take a deeper dive. First, we can start off with the definition of the word "Toxic" and it's qualities in a specifically toxic, romantic/platonic relationship.

Now that we have the definition of Toxic and what it means relationship wise, let's go through it's traits and it's characteristics -

I can already sense the tons and tons of people, (specifically the Byler fandom) coming my way, saying this EXACTLY describes Mileven. But just listen to me first. Let's take each trait and break it down to see if Mike and Eleven are officially Toxic. If you need to remember the definition for each one, just search for it above. Beginning with the first one -

Emotional Abuse - Starting off with there was no Emotional Abuse once so ever. From what I know, neither Mike or Eleven have ever tried to gaslight or belittle each other. People may use how "Mike called Eleven rediculous during their argument" in season 4 as an argument, but my take on it may become a bit more clear if you think on it: Mike and Eleven never once had to use words as a way of showing how much they love each other, their language was forever touch and Acts of Service. But because of long distance, it had it's impact on Eleven, and I've said this before and I'll say it again, she showed how much she still misses him through her crafts we see in Volume 1 of season 4, and it's obvious that she does different things instead of touch to show how important he is to her, but the longing of wanting to touch and feel for him, especially the two can only write letters to each other and weren't able to see each other until Mike's trip, she'd want to long for his words instead for a change, but Mike's fears gave Eleven a window of his insecurities, even when she didn't realize it at first. And her lashing out at Mike had absolutely nothing to do with him, everything around her was happening all at the same time at once (Hopper's alledged death, harrassment at school, far away from the party, being away from Mike, the loss of her powers), meaning Mike's struggle with words was just a factor to her breakdown, and with her just now unknowingly seeing his insecurity and especially after everything she went through with her bullies and childhood, of course she would feel hurt, and she of course did the right thing by expressing that to him. With this information, Mike of course thought Eleven had already knew he loved her and that she already knew he loved her no matter what, especially after everything he'd done to make sure she knew that, and without speaking verbally. But now he realized that she needed that from him, and the whole season, he was wishing he had given her that in that very moment.

"Maybe if I just said how I truly felt, she wouldn't have went without me, y'know?" - Mike Wheeler, season 4

Controlling behavior - Another controversial thing people may disagree with me on is that neither Eleven or Mike is controlling to the other. Eleven had never forced Mike to do anything, like a LOT of people say. Don't use the fight in season 4 as an argument because that was Eleven expressing her feelings to Mike, and Mike was the one that made the choice to still give her what she needed and wanted, which was his words of love and truth. It was also Eleven's choice to go back to him because she had missed him, he was the first ever person in her life to treat her more than just a number or a girl with telekenetic abilities, and she most definitely made her own choice to still stay with him even after their heavy argument, because one misunderstanding wasn't enough to break her from her love for Mike, if that was the case, she wouldn't have smiled in immense relief at the sight of seeing him in BOTH of their reunions from season 2 and 4. So much so that she had to ask -

"Is it really you?" - Eleven, season 4

And you can use "Mike wants to be needed" as a counterargument to make it seem like he wants to control Eleven, but in reality, their relationship started as Eleven needing Mike's help and it was how it was the first time they known each other and it had developed into a crush. Mike's fear developed in seeing Eleven slowly start to grow in terms having new and different relationships, and as much as Mike supports it, he believed that she might think that she'd be better off without him now, and that's way different than trying to push onto her that she must need him if she wants to be with him. Season 3 was Mike and Eleven slowly growing out of the "protector/child-in-need" stage, and turning into equals, and in both seasons 3&4, it was Mike accepting the fact that Eleven will always need him while also needing her own time with others as well as much as he needed his too. Mike had never intentionally tried to lock Eleven or isolate her, if anything, he was following Hopper's rules which was to do exactly that to keep her safe. So why is no one yelling at Hopper? And like I said, even after Eleven's growth in finding her own friendship, Mike still apologized for his jealous behavior.

Lack of Respect and Support - I don't even think I need to explain this one. For as I can remember, Eleven and Mike has always supported the other in finding each other and understanding each other. Mike and Eleven come from different backgrounds, yes, but that doesn't mean they can't be sympathetic or empathetic for each other. Mike obviously connects with Eleven as much as Eleven connects with Mike. Eleven connected with Mike on the two not being seen as "normal", it was just the loss of her new life in season 4 that made forget and for the second time remember why she was in love with Mike in the first place. And the same goes for Mike. He was trying to be as normal as possible, especially since he didn't wanna mess up his relationship with Eleven because this was the first ever reciprocated love he's experience out of his now 16 years of living. But it took a serious conversation for them to open up and remember just how and why they loved and connected with each other in the first place and ever since. They've understood each other to a deep extent and their actions towards each other speak volumes that they obviously care about the wants and needs of the other and would go to extreme lengths just to fulfill it.

Power imbalances - I believe the first other paragraphs definitely already prove that this is not an issue in their relationship, but I'll put this in perspective of Eleven because we already know Mike as a person and wouldn't dare to try and do something like this. We know Eleven wouldn't do anything like this, even with the knowledge that she's the stronger one in the relationship. She obviously cares and is devoted to Mike, and the self-sacraficing side of her is there to prove it, with her constantly protecting him and his friends even in times when she KNOWS she's close to her fate. Even when people try to stop her, she still wants to protect them as she feels like it's her duty, and Mike tries the best he can to let her know through his actions that it's not. That's different from trying to use her powers to outshine and dominate Mike, because we know she would never want to hurt him. And when she has to, it would be for literally his sake. That's how much she loves him.

Unhealthy Communication - I can already see you tapping your fingers in those comments. But listen to me first. We already know and I've said why Eleven and Mike struggle with communication. Their main focus in season 4 is to struggle with communication and battle their loyalty when it comes to long distance, just like season 2 had but with more focus on the long-distance half. Their lack of communication comes from their background, insecurities, experiences, and unfortunate situations - not toxicity. And of course there is no blaming because you don't see Eleven blaming Mike for her bullying situation and her disappointment in losing. There is a difference between telling someone how you feel immensely and blaming someone for your problems and what happened to you. You don't see Mike doing this either, as all he was, was confused until he realized he had to make things right. And again, Eleven was probably not the best with words before all of this and is still learning from other people around her, or even being audodidact, which is a potential factor in Mike's surprise but adaption. They've learn to communicate better, in ALL seasons -

S1 - Mike teaching Eleven emotional words: "Friend", "Promise", "Home", "Pretty" / Eleven using those words in return

S2 - Communicating through the void while separated (They eventually use this knowldge to set up a boundary of not spying on each other in season 3, refuting the trait of monitoring each other's actions)

S3 - Forming specific boundaries/going through the teen experience of jealousy and expressing it to each other/evolving from a certain stage (Protecter/Child-in-need)

S4 - Verbal argument that allows the two to realize and remember how they truly feel about each other/realizing how the other feels/reflect on their feelings and insecurities/overcoming fears/deepens from conflict/voice their internal struggles

Emotional Drain - Don't necessarily need to explain this one too much, as the drain mostly comes from themselves and their experiences rather than their relationship.

Now that we have the characteristics refuted, let's go and look at the examples and impacts and see if any of that is within the couple of Mileven -

• Jealousy and Possessiveness: Excessive jealousy, constant questioning, and attempts to control the other person's interaction

• Blaming and shaming: Holding the other person responsible for their actions or feelings

• Gaslighting: Denying the other person's reality or feelings to make them question their sanity

• Manipulation: Using guilt, threats, or other tactics to get what they want

Impact of Toxic relationships

Low self-esteem: Constant criticism and belitting can erode self-worth

Anxiety and Depression: The stress and emotional turmoil of a toxic relationship can lead to Anxiety and Depression

Difficulty forming healthy relationships: Being in a toxic relationship can make it challenging to recognize and maintain healthy relationships in the future

Physical Health problems: Chronic stress from toxic relationships can contribute to physical health issues

The first 3 of the first section we've already covered - the two simply obviously don't manipulate each other and we've seen the fandom label Mike as a manipulator. Mike has never used guilt to get what he wants and needs from Eleven, and we've NEVER seen him threatend her. Again, Eleven makes her own choices and she chose to keep helping Mike emotionally, physically, etc. since the beginning. And we can say the same thing for Eleven as we've already covered what the real reasons behind her own actions were. Their LOVE is what makes them do the things they do for each other, what the other desires and needs, that's why one of their love languages is Acts of Service.

"It's like....I can still see her. I feel like I'm going crazy" - Mike Wheeler, season 2/"Y'know? 'Blank' makes you crazy?" - Mike Wheeler, season 3

As for the first impact, I've said before that Mike's insecurities had begun right before he had met Eleven due to his past experiences with women and his parents. And his ongoing insecurity was never because of Eleven but because of other people. Hopper, Max, Nancy, and Will. With the people from the outside constantly pushing a relationship a 14-year-old boy cares about so much away from him, especially with his still insecurities now, of course it only contributed to him feeling like she wouldn't love or need him anymore, and all he wanted to spend time with his new girlfriend over the summer after everything they've both been through. As for El, her low self-esteem didn't come from within the relationship either. Like we covered, Mike had never belittled or gave criticism towards Eleven, all of the self-doubt and erase of confidence came from the criticism of other people. Angela continuing to bother and harrass Eleven for the enjoyment of seeing her helpless, Hopper (once), Will, and even Max for pushing Eleven to her seemingly non-existant limits. The constant belittling didn't come from her relationship, it came from the constant mistreatment and consistent pushing on her, leading to her feeling a sense of uselessness and helplessness.

Don't think I need to cover the Anxiety and Depression one simply because these moments were also caused by outsiders and not during their times together

From the dynamics we've seen Eleven and Mike build themselves all by themselves as well, we know they do not have any difficulty with forming healthy relationships with other people. With Eleven's bond with Max, and Mike's bond with his friends. We see he was still able to hang out and build friendships in his new DND club in season 4, and we see Eleven still able to seek out for a different type of friendship with Max and hang out in season 3, the only mistake, being Max taking advantage of Eleven being rightfully gullible and manipulating her into making poor decisions (which Eleven actively refuses later on)

Again, 0 signs of Chronic physical health issues in their relationship

With that all being said, most of you (keyword: Most) use the word "toxic" as a description of them so loosely without actually taking a deep dive into HOW they are actually toxic, and we know that their not, especially with all of the information and scenes within the show that refute the claim of this teenaged couple being "toxic" as you say. Their just teenaged kids learning how to find themselves and learn more about each other, which will inevitably include fights and conflict every step of the way, and even with all the intense emotions and situations happening around them, they still choose each other time and time again and their mistakes often get worped into the mistakes defining the entire person. Mistakes don'y define who we are and that should be the same for Mike and Eleven and should not have to go through this constant bias they often become a victim to inside this fandom. This is exactly why season 4 of Mileven will forever be my favorite because it uncovers just how deep, realistic, naturally flawd, and full of depth their relationship actually is. And if you can't see that, then that's automatically depressing.

If you've read to the end, thank you for being a real one and seeing my perspective on this "toxic" label being put on such on a beautiful but misunderstood couple. If this ever changed your view of Mileven or made you think differently, let me know as it definitely helps! Mileven Endgame>

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MY ELEVEN EDIIITTT

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At this point, watching television shows with your eyes completely closed with ear plugs on is a trend>>>>

Anti Mileven Bylers: “Mike doesn’t love Eleven, he just loves her powers and glorifies her as a superhero”

Are they forgetting the whole season long drama between Mike and everyone because he was mad they were using her powers, causing her potential harm and risk of being exposed and taken?

Anti Mileven Bylers: “El doesn’t understand love and relationships and isn’t ready for a relationship”

Are they forgetting the conclusion of Eleven and Brenner’s relationship? Or her time in NINA entirely? She’s doesn’t severely lack emotional maturity, she does NOT have the mind of a child and limited capacity with independence. She struggles with a lot of things as result of being isolated and mistreated her entire life but it doesn’t make her incapable of a romantic relationship.

Anti Mileven Bylers: “there is an unhealthy mental/academic gap between Mike and Eleven”

Of course theres a gap! He grew up in a middle class background living a very normal life while she grew up confined and abused in a lab without receiving a formal education. But what’s the issue, why should it stop them from being together? Believe it or not, relationships between neurotypical, ‘normal people’ and people who have disabilities and trauma’s do exist. Relationships where one partner takes care of the other (that could be emotionally, physically, financially ect) do exist!!

Is Mike taking advantage of her difficulties? Does he control her, baby her, lie because she might not know better then to believe him?(him lying in season 3 doesn’t count, the circumstances are completely different🙄)No. That’s not an opinion it’s a fact, we never see him do that. In what way does her not being on the same academic/mental level as him make their relationship toxic?

At the end of the day they’re just two kids from very different backgrounds who love each other. They’re relationship isn’t perfect but it’s what they both choose. You love who you love.

I’m tired and getting really bored of people who ship Byler and use Mileven to further their ideology going to extreme lengths by finding ‘reasons’ Mileven is unhealthy and morally wrong. They don’t have to like them, their reasons for disliking them just often contradict the evidence or are straight up offensive and discriminatory.

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FINALLY!! Eleven is my favorite as well, and people always call Stranger Things "Will's show". It's everyones show but if we just break it down, we know who's show it actually is. Will was being put to the side for 2 whole seasons after season 2. How is that enough for us to call this series HIS series? Eleven has had a consistent storyline and arc throughout the whole show, which shows just how much she pivotal to the story just like Will, but much more, especially since she's the element of hope in the series. We can't call it his show only when he was put the side for 2 seasons only to finally have an important arc in the last season. He's relevant, yes, but not enough for him to gain the name of the entire project.

something people get wrong

So this is going to be another unpopular opinion but as you all know I don't care it I offend anyone about it because it's my opinion and it shouldn't be offensive.

So something that's been kinda getting to me about the show is the misconception of the main character and how season 5 will be wills season or that he should be the one to kill vecna by some weird magic way of acquiring powers.

The phrase "it started with so it will end with will" is something that is seriously annoying to me. As you all may or may not know, El is my favorite character and I'm not mostly saying this because of bias or preference but from a narrative perspective. But you guys do know that just because the very first episode of the show starts with will getting abducted it doesn't exactly mean he's the main character or that it actually started with him. Because technically it started with el opening the gate and now not even then, it started way back with Henry and the mindflayer.

An argument could also be said that it started with Brenner, but everything that lead to vecna coming into this world and will getting kidnapped was because el defeated him in 1979. I strongly feel that people forget that or are just unaware of that.

If it wasn't for El sending him to dimension x, technically the demogorgon would have never randomly abducted will. No I don't think it wasn't random. No I don't think vecna has some special plan for will or that he's getting some powers that's just ridiculous and cringy.

Again we have to remember that if it wasn't for El, henry would have destroyed the world by now and everyone in hawkins would most likely be dead including your favorite will.

So this is Canon. This whole thing actually started with Brenner, Henry and el. Will was just an unlucky unfortunate victim at the wrong place and at the wrong time. Luckily he was fortunate enough to have caring friends and family and a strong little girl who cared enough to save his life and even sacrifice hers (to which he still hadn't thanked her yet by the way). Yes the show did technically start with his disappearance but in the show in terms of timeline it really didn't. There were certain events that weren't yet shown in season 1 that led to his disappearance that later get revealed in the show.

But boy is next year about to be annoying with all the will stans and the bylers. I swear, all the will fans are bylers and it's annoying. It's also annoying that these fools try to make him the main character when he's not, we already know who is and it's not him but he's still gonna be instrumental in season 5 with his knowledge of vecna and the upside down but that's it.

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TOTALLY AGREE

Mike would burn every man if it meant El would be warm

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Finn has always loved Mileven. Again, he supports Byler, but that doesn't mean he exactly rolls with it. Because of Milevens story and their build-up, he ships it. And the fact that he was proud of his monolouge speaks many volumes of how much he cares for his character and the ship his character his involved in. Why would he be so proud of the scene if Mileven were to just go to waste at the end of the show? Finn doesn't hate Mileven, you just want him to, lol.

I always found it funny when I saw Bylers insisting that Finn love byler and hated mileven, especially considering that Finn improvised some of the big speech they hate so much and he said ver and over how proud of that scene he was

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I just know they were expecting an over-the-top agreement

NEED TO KNOW UR THOUGHTS ABOUT BYLER !!!!!

nothing spectacular. im so so sorry.

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Oh my goodness gracious....

Homophobic bc I said Eleven was upset at the end of s4 bc her best friend is nearly dead, she lost for the first time ever, and she feels like it was her fault. Not because she’s upset with Mike’s monologue… There’s no refuting that. It’s literally stated in dialogue.

I then showed this to refute the thought she’s mad at Mike and they say it doesn’t count bc it’s not the cabin… B*ler truthers and their incredibly skewed way of understanding media is actually insane.

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Hi, I see that you ship Mileven, that's really cool! I've also seen that you've made quite a few anti-Byler posts, which is also totally fine. But I have noticed in many of those posts that you seem to believe Bylers don't have substantial evidence for their claims, which is untrue. Byler shippers are actually quite skilled in areas of media literacy and analysis, which is how we've collected so much proof. If you're interested in hearing what legitimate arguments Byler shippers have, I'd suggest checking out this huge list of evidence:

https://www.reddit.com/r/byler/s/RNOLvEEGcR

It currently has 180+ links, so I don't expect you to look at all of them, but even just a handful may equip you to at least argue against Byler better because you will be aware of what we actually believe. :)

Ok I read through some of them and this what I noticed.

^ mike was surprised because up until that point they’ve never said I love you to each other. The entire season he was trying to get the courage to say it, eleven picked up on it.

^ No evidence in mike lying whatsoever. As an audience where supposed to have an outside look and know a character is lying.

With eleven we seen her before mike arrive and after how she lied abt how she was doing.

For will in ep1 eleven states she doesn’t know who will is painting for at all, then in the van will says she does.

For Mike tho there’s nothing that indicates he isn’t interested in eleven. From the fact each season ends with them, they never have broken up/split up on their own terms. And in s4 he puts eleven basically over everything.

^The party didn’t really lose tho. Them losing would’ve been max and eleven dying. We know elevens strength is determined by love instead of hate like 001. If it truly didn’t work bc it was untrue she wouldn’t have been able to break free.

^This is already explained within the show itself. He doesn’t want to overstep bc he feels he’s not good enough for eleven and she’s gonna realize that and break up with him. He feels like he got lucky of finding eleven and she just stuck with Mike bc he found her first. He just doesn’t want to mess his first relationship up. Remember he’s 14.

^This is where I stopped bc this is so much of a reach it’s crazy. Mikes statement in itself says that if he expresses how he feels he thinks eleven will not feel the same. Aka leaving mike after him being at his most vulnerable. Him not outright say he needs her does NOT speak volumes bc of the fact of the entire season we see how much mike wants and needs her. Pretty much every arc mike has had shows how much he cares for and loves eleven. It’s subtext if it’s byler but for mileven if it’s not explicitly said then it’s not there? Very convenient

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Ohhhhh, so this is what Milevens say too? At this point, all of us should hunt down each other, lol

milevens should be allowed to legally hunt bylers for sport

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People don't look deeper into things before they assume, huh?

The only people who queerbaited, was byler fans themselves lmao. Clawing at straws when mileven has more proof for it than against it, and has always made more sense especially after s4😂

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Meme time.

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YESSSS. And the fact that people think the ending is supposed to be different because he had said "Because of the beginning" - Honestly, I believe he said so because the beginning had been a start-up for Mileven ever since season 1, and in the end, Mileven reaches their happy ending (not a marriage scene like I'm DYING for) but just a simple connection like a heart-to-heart between the two. It starts with them, it should end with them, especially because their love triangle with Will is coming to a close with the van scene and maybe another confession from Will with Mike's support.

Just watched, for the first time a full clear video of what finn said when asked if he preferred byler or mileven and the first thing that struck me was how OBVIOUSLY nervous he was answering that. Legs tapping up and down and his palms seem sweaty he keeps regripping the mic. I've always understood Finn to have a bit of social anxiety so I don't think it's entirely because of the question, but it was certainly kind of sad to see.

Another thing that struck me is how people have taken his statement out of context to fit their benefit.

Finn starts by saying how he always likes for Fans to choose what the prefer themselves, letting it he known that he's not giving the answer for it to change any fans mind or convince anyone to prefer his answer.

He then says how he know byler is very popular and then goes ahead to say.... 'but for me' this implies that his coming statement is in opposition to the popularity if Byler. Then finally he says "I guess because of just the starting at the beginning, I guess I would say mileven" and after he hears people scream he's literally taken aback, like he's surprised so many people support or liked his answer.

It is very clear to ke that many if the cast know how popular Byler is at the moment. And it is also clear to me that Finn at this moment gave a very earnest and honest answer. No he wasn't lying, no he wasn't hiding anything. He gave an answer that he assumed the audience wouldn't like and was surprised when they actually did.

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Something I think is sweet.

Is how even after Eleven lies about Will, and The Party find his fake body, Mike still lets Eleven stay in the basement though he's mad at her. He doesn't trust her, but he still lets her stay and keeps her secret because he's aware she needs help. He's really mature for his age here and I always thought that was admirable. It's no wonder she loves him so much, I would too!

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Thank you sm for answering! Your answer was great and its definitely helped get rid of some doubt. Yeah I'm very positive about the roof scene, just by Finns face alone.

Im not good at theories. But I have noticed the ring mike gave her in the teaser and leaked poster she's wearing it on her left hand now, that doesn't just mean just marriage (I don't think marriage for them just yet) but It's futher commitment and a sense of maturity in the relationship.

You're right so many fans are eagerly waiting for their happy ending. And I do think the duffers will deliver it they know the importance of it for most fans. I definitely don't doubt they'll break out hearts a little first though lol

Thanks so much! Mileven endgame <3

You're so welcome!!

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Do you ever suffer mileven doubt?

Not in the sense of their love not being true. Because I absolutely 100% believe they're both madly in love with each other. (And leaks/actors have spoke so highly of them) but in the sense that El will have to be separated from mike indefinitely in the epilouge for whatever reason like safety. It worries me a little. I don't believe she'll die but I am definitely nervous. I don't think i can handle mileven getting their happy ending for it to be ripped away :( the duffers love to trick us man

Haha, sorry about that. I would've seen it earlier if I wasn't so busy today. Been a little nauseous from swimming but I hope my answer doesn't sound disoriented because of that. But I believe that in certain episodes, Mike and Eleven would be seperated. In other episodes, they won't be. Due to the teaser, certain scene leaks, and words the actors, I believe that Mike and Eleven would get their happy ending.

I like to call myself a "Mileven Lawyer" (egotistical, I know) but since there's a "Byler" lawyer, I'm gonna be a lawyer too....just..without a license. And even as that, I get Mileven doubt ALL. THE. TIME. But I still keep my head up high because I know for a fact that with all of the evidence that I collect, all of the theories that I've received, all of the messages I've been sent of proof and all of the logical reasoning I've gathered and provided, I know for a fact that there is a high, VERY high probability that Mike and Eleven will get their happy ending with some hardships in the long run. The Stranger Things leak of Mileven from January of 2024 had been collected and tested by fans that used A.I or film professional to determine what Mike had been stating to Eleven. The results were analyized by the creators themselves and found the results to be generally accurate. In the clip, Mike was talking to Eleven on the rooftop about "Happy ever afters", how he and she want their future to be when their adventures with the Upside Down is all figured out and closed.

Think about Eleven's element in the show - Eleven is the "hope" within the show. Without her, her death would cause misery to almost the entire collection of characters. Even the characters that haven't been seen or related the most with Eleven would be impacted by her permanent absence. She's been with these people for so long, it wouldn't feel the same anymore without her and would take years to move on for a lot of them. Knowing this, this could be a GIANT mistake on the Duffers' part for killing off a character that was so pivotal to this element. That would also mean that everything Mike has ever done for her was not enough to keep her from feeling like she was useless and unloved, Hopper's paternal and fatherly love was not enough to keep Eleven from feeling unloved, Max's platonic empowerment and love not enough, the Party's appreciation and love was not enough. If that was the case, she would've been LONG gone in season 4. Meaning Eleven's chances at dying are prominantly low.

In a photo from the set and the story of Stranger Things, we see Mike, Lucas, and Nancy with Eleven in some sort of which seems to be a part of a Military base, and we found Eleven in a photo of where she was hiding in the Military as well. Meaning that Mike and Eleven aren't COMPLETELY seperated, they may be in some scenes, but in particular scenes, they're together and are close, especially. So that slightly supports my claim of Mike and Eleven only being sperated at the start of some episodes.

And yes, I completely agree on the Duffers wanting the bring the shock value towards their audience to have them FEEL something, but Mike and Eleven's relationship going down hill isn't the way to do it. That won't be shock value, that's only bring heartbreak and confusion to a giant percent of their audience, which believe it or not, perfer and cherish Mileven. That's not shock value, that's ruining the part of the narrative. They could do it in other ways, like how they revealed that Henry was actually Vecna in season 4. Now THAT made me feel something. Putting Mike and El's relationship in jeopardy simply isn't going to bring shock to anyone but people who knew or believe Mileven to be endgame and they'll cry about it. That type of shock isn't the same shock as something lingering in your mind because you never knew that would be the case, people suspect a break-up scene with Mike and Eleven, even die-hard Milevens.

So, do not worry until we get season 5. Sure, we may worry sometimes because the Duffers may cave-in and bust out a break-up, but still keep your head up high. Because at the end of the day, Mileven deserves what they deserve and that is a beautiful, happy ending. Thank you so much for this ask! It shows alot of about this specific side of the community and me as well. Mileven endgame>

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So these people are trying to hunt me down for having common sense and media literacy??? I'd shoot myself before I EVER have them put a finger on me!

Why does this fandom hold such hatred against Mileven shippers as a whole?

I constantly hear about the w1llm1ke shippers talking about how they dislike the generalisation of them of being “El hating misogynists” yet they in turn don’t keep that same attitude towards the stereotype of Milevens being “Will hating homophobes”

I’m aware that there’s a vocal group of Milevens who hold genuinely harmful homophobic opinions on Will and I don’t condone any of that however I don’t believe that we all deserve to be lumped in with these people.

My experience on the tumblr side of this fandom has been anything but positive I can’t look through the mileven and pro mileven tags without seeing bylers posting anti content in our tags accusing us of being media illiterate, stupid, homophobic and even invalidating our sexualities for preferring Mileven over Byler, I kid you not I once saw the tags on a post saying something along the lines of “you ship Mileven and you’re a lesbian? I don’t believe you” and while I’m aware it could be a joke but as an actual lesbian who’s had her sexuality invalidated by homophobic people around me it’s been really hurtful seeing that despite me shipping sapphic pairings like elmax, ronance, rovickie, joyren I’ll never be a valid lesbian stranger things fan just because I’m not a fan of a certain mlm pairing. I’ve actually had a mutual deactivate her blog from her anxiety worsening over cross tagging and getting the idea that she’s actually homophobic into her head and losing her has been absolutely awful I really hope that wherever she is she’s okay.

At the moment the mileven tag has been flooded with bylers posting anti content and bylers posing as Milevens being blatantly homophobic and even invalidating Wills own sexuality (look through the straight/bi Will tag…) just to impersonate us and give certain bylers more reasons to be hostile towards us. seeing homophobia in our tags is really hurtful to myself and the other queer Milevens here.

Because of the troll trend I see bylers invading actual Milevens blogs accusing them of being trolls and sending hateful asks despite the Milevens rarely or never at all cross tagging.

I’m aware that it’s not all bylers like how it isn’t all Milevens but bylers who are respectful towards milevens and tag appropriately are far and in between.

This whole ship war is pure bullshit just stop interacting with Milevens and stick to the byler tag.

I’m really sorry if this ends up getting cross tagged I feel like a hypocrite.