certifieduruihater - Tumblr blog

[certifieduruihater]

boggles my mind how often i see in rise and 12 crossover fics the rise family dynamics and rise splinter constantly lauded and even considered superior to the 12 version, and that the 12 universe should "learn a lesson" from them and then i actually watch rise only to find out that rise splinter is just awful. fanon has twisted these characters so much its insane to me.

rise splinter has canonically never celebrated his sons' birthdays and somehow 12 splinter is the abusive one. okay. so what 12 splinter is doing is wrong, but canonical child neglect (abuse) is, what, nothing?

also the 18 turtles are in no position to be teaching ANYTHING to ANYONE

[certifieduruihater]

think its hilarious when people call leo the favorite/golden child because 1. those abuse dynamics dont even apply here. get out of the kitchen and 2. this kid has disobeyed splinter just as much as his brothers, if not more. he doesn't mindlessly obey splinter, he thinks for himself. see: karai.

yeah, you see master splinter and leo on screen a lot together. wanna know why? maybe its because leo often seeks him out for advice (and it often has to do with the lesson of that episode) and also because he's new at being the leader? that was the point of his arc the whole show, for leo to figure out how to lead. why would he not go to his father, someone he deeply trusts, for advice? and how does that make him the favorite? the turtles feel so comfortable talking to their dad, all of them. they all talk with him/spend time with him in their own ways, it's just that due to the nature of the show, we see it with splinter and leo the most often. but i dont think it means splinter doesnt love his other sons any less, nor does it mean he spends less time with them

[certifieduruihater]

Response to post by @5p4ced-0ut regarding rise's status as "super soldiers" in the fandom:

Calling them war machines is a bit of an over exaggeration, in my opinion. They were mutated with Lou Jitsu’s DNA. What does this do for them? What advantage does this lead to? Nothing, really. So, no, I don’t think this factor should be taken super seriously when it comes to crossovers.

“It's something that doesn't happen in other shows.” Cool. What makes you think the other turtles would care? As I stated before, whether the mutation was purposeful or accidental hardly matters, because Rise isn’t necessarily more powerful than the other versions.

Physical prowess:

Both the 12 turtles and 87 turtles display incredible feats of strength in their own series, to name a couple iterations. They’re all strong. Not sure what the point of this part of the post was. 

The calculations you make are running on a lot of hypotheticals. All of this is speculation. 

Those screenshots of Raph and Leo leaving a dent/hole? These are shots from a gag scene. Gag scenes like these often rely on wacky slapstick humor, meaning that the effects you see here were most likely exaggerated for comedic effect. You can’t apply these physics calculations 1:1 here. 

Regarding the shock collar:

Once again, you’re making a lot of assumptions. And you’re assuming that the 12 turtles also don’t have a healing factor, which, in my opinion, it’s highly implied they do, to some degree. I believe that all iterations have enhanced mutant physiologies to some extent, so I’m a bit iffy on using numbers based on human subjects. We simply don’t know if they can be compared 1:1. Who’s to say the voltage and amperage wasn’t more? We’ll never know for sure; what’s the point of bringing this up?

Why are you basing the numbers for Donnie’s tech off of a dog shock collar? Why are you assuming they’d line up? You can’t make these sorts of assumptions and treat them as if they are fact. 

The shock collar episode is also a comedic episode. Leo gets up after 2 shocks looking more annoyed than hurt because it was meant to be a joke. He wasn’t actually meant to get seriously injured, because then this would turn into a serious episode. “Meat Sweats receives the same number of shocks as Leo, and he is on the verge of passing out” because now the writers have decided that the villain needs to be defeated so the episode can end. The shock collar and its effects are a plot device; they are meant to be flexible because Rise is a comedy. The properties and effects of the shock collar can be whatever the writers need it to be for that point in time, so they don’t have to be consistent. I don’t think this is very solid evidence.

Speed? Sure, they’re fast. But their speed is not a game-changer. There are other factors worth considering. Also, that first gif of Leo was from the first episode, where despite his speed, still gets his swords bitten off a few seconds later. The monstrous dog that the guardsman was riding clearly had no trouble reacting. This looks more like a glamor shot to me. I don’t think this was supposed to line up 1:1 with reality, I think the point of this shot was placed to make Leo look cool in the moment…so that him getting “owned” despite putting up a tough facade could look humorous after. Additionally, one could argue that their speed kicks in due to rise’s need for fun and flashy spectacle fights that break the laws of reality, whereas the other shows are more grounded. That second gif was from the fight with Shredder; from a writing standpoint, it needs to look cool, since Shredder is the big bad, so their abilities were subsequently amped up. Can you really use this as a proper point of comparison?

“Previous incarnations got put into a coma for 3 days/months when being thrown out a window.” Yes, after getting severely beaten and injured by the Foot. It’s not like they were just thrown out a window. This language is misleading.

“We see Rise!Leo take hit after hit from Krang Prime (who can tear through steel like paper), cough out blood, hear his bones/shell crack, and he still doesn't go into shock. And he's fine within a couple months.” Good for him? He’s a ragdoll cartoon character working with cartoon Rise physics. It’s a movie with limited time. We already knew he was going to be fine. It’s honestly hard for me to take that scene seriously. Leonardo in the Image Comics lost his hand and it eventually regenerated. The Bay Turtles’ shells are bulletproof and they themselves are walking giants. All of the turtles, at one point in time, have walked off blows that they realistically shouldn’t have been able to. Rise Leo isn’t special; they can all take hits.  

There was a point to the comas. The other iterations had time to explore the ramifications of the injuries they sustained, and it would often fit narratively as a time of reflection, healing, and growth. The injuries were not the point. They all healed physically from their injuries every time. The point of those arcs was mainly to show lack of confidence that resulted from their loss. Rise was never interested in exploring that particular plotline, even when the show was running, so they never did. That’s probably a big reason why there was no coma for rise leo; the writers felt it wasn’t necessary in pushing his character. If the writers wanted to put him in a coma, they would have; I don’t think it necessarily has to do with his durability. And pointing out the comas the others went through doesn't necessarily mean the other versions are physically weaker. As I said, it served more of a narrative purpose for them. So I don’t think using this as an argument for Rise Leo’s durability/stamina really works.

If the other iterations landed in Rise, then wouldn’t they also be operating under Rise physics/laws of the universe? Theoretically, wouldn’t this also make them less susceptible to damage? And vice versa for Rise landing in other universes. They might find themselves bouncing back a little less easily if that’s the case.

Physical Prowess - Insane in the Mama Train:

How good is this Splinter compared to the other versions, though? What quality/type of instruction are the turtles receiving compared to other versions? How good is this Splinter at teaching? Also, this is a training fight. He’s not going all out on them.

It’s impressive that they were able to adapt and improve so quickly, but a bunch of these other iterations have been formally training for years, since they were kids, before their series started. Whether Rise has been training for a few hours or days in this scene is irrelevant; they can’t match the time and effort that these other iterations have put into their training. According to 2012 Leo, having a 2-hour warm up plus up to 4-5 hours of training is normal for them. And presumably, they do this daily, on top of the albeit recent addition of night patrols. I imagine it must be similar for other iterations. Other iterations have experience that Rise lacks; you cannot become a full-fledged ninja in a few days. That time isn’t something you can just make up for. The other turtles’ fighting skills are practically muscle memory for them at this point. Rise adapts quickly, sure, but you could argue that the other iterations do so as well. And again, this is a training fight against Splinter. This doesn’t prove much to me.

Wow, they sure are doing well in this plot episode, where the plot dictates they must do well after receiving what rise deems as a sufficient amount of training. This doesn’t show their prowess to me; this is a typical writing formula. There was even a classic training montage. And it took, what, only…*checks watch* 25 episodes to get here? (45 episodes if you count the way rise splits episodes) Nearly a whole season to reach this level of competency and receive formal training. Yikes. They’re winning here because they have to. If instead of fighting their own villains after this point, if they instead fought another iteration’s villains, can you say for sure that they would win? Being skilled doesn’t win over having over a decade of experience, and I’d argue that the rise turtles aren’t particularly skilled either. They lacked fundamentals for a long time. At most, as you said, they adapt quickly. But, as I’ve stated before, even this isn’t an advantage to me, because the other iterations display this trait as well.

Villains and Ninpo:

The Rise villains are dangerous in their own show, yes. My point was that, as you said, that because Rise is still a comedy, the stakes simply aren’t as high compared to the other versions. I’d argue that this matters a lot when you do comparisons like this. 

“The only way Shredder is winning is by using underhanded tactics and quick-thinking, like he did to defeat Batman.” I was under the impression that the Batman vs TMNT movie was a different iteration entirely. If you’re talking 12 Shredder, yes, he is human, but he displays incredible feats of strength, prowess, and skill despite that. "Underhanded tactics" is selling him short (though he does employ those too: he is a good strategist, on a technical level). He was bodying the turtles during their first encounter, no trickery required, just pure skill and experience the turtles didn’t have at the time. He was going toe to toe with Splinter just fine. And he takes down all of the Mutanimals single-handedly at one point. He is a formidable threat; being human doesn’t change that. (He mutates later anyway…)

The 12 turtles do struggle when it comes to their more magic foes. They also struggled to adapt to the upgraded foot bots way earlier in the series. The Rise turtles also struggle to adapt to new villains. All of the turtles tend to struggle with new villains at first, whether they have mystic abilities or not. Otherwise, there would be no point to an episode. But just as you mentioned with Rise, the 12 turtles adapt. All iterations do; this isn’t a trait unique to rise. They have to, for the sake of their survival. Also, yes, the 2012 turtles have a lot of allies that have aided them before, which arguably give them another advantage. Thanks for pointing that out. 

If ninpo doesn’t exist in the 12 universe, why are we assuming the rise turtles would have access to it? We don’t know if they would for sure. If the laws of the other universes are different, why are we assuming that Rise wouldn’t follow them? Heck, who’s to say that the turtles who end up in the rise world wouldn’t gain access to some form of mystic abilities themselves? Nothing’s absolute here, there are plenty of fun possibilities to consider. It’s just that people tend not to in order to make Rise look better.

I argue that because rise and 12 have fundamentally different tones with fundamentally different things they want to achieve, you can’t compare them 1:1. Power-scaling can be tough to analyze, but I am still under the belief that the advantages you list still don’t automatically mean Rise would have the upper hand. When I stated that 12 would beat Rise (mostly to be mean), I said if it were to happen, the win probably wouldn’t happen on their first fight. I’m not saying the 12 turtles would automatically dominate either, you know 😅 Also, I did mention 2003 in the replies. Just because I didn’t mention an iteration of turtles doesn’t mean I’ve forgotten or discredited them. I mainly bring up 12 since 12 seems to be the target of most rise crossovers’ ire. 

If you asked my actual opinion on who would win, I would say that I didn’t really know, because it’s pretty dubious. There’s not a definitive answer here. The only thing I can say for sure is that it’s up to the writer of whoever happens to be writing the turtles at that time. Whichever iteration the writer needs to have win will win at the end of the day. There’s a reason why the 87 turtles were portrayed the way they were in official crossovers without really letting them showcase their full potential: to push an agenda. And crossover fics really perpetuate this; you can tell whenever the author is looking down on the other iterations (usually 2012). They’ll come up with the reasons you listed and use them as excuses for why the rise turtles are superior without bothering to look into the other versions/give them a chance. They’ll have the other versions fawn over/be in awe of/be horrified by/scared of the rise turtles when logically, there’s no reason for them to be, since they’ve all faced foes just as deadly as the rise turtles. My original post was largely talking about people like this. All I can say for sure is that all sides would probably struggle to some extent. No one is bodying anyone. I think that people who tout that the rise turtles would definitely beat the other turtles/the other turtles would be intimidated are severely underestimating the other iterations as well as overestimating the rise turtles.

There are plenty of other people who share the same opinion as you, so there’s no need to feel “irked” by anything. If you’re looking for posts that talk about the great aspects of the rise turtles, there’s plenty of posts/fanfic/fanart/analyses in existence already, yours included. But my posts are probably not the best place to look for that sort of thing.

[certifieduruihater]

i find it funny when people say that splinter is a traditional asian parent because he's not even? not really. yeah, they call him sensei. but do you see how casually they talk to him? the way they banter with him? the stuff he just lets them get away with? where do you think the turtles' sense of humor comes from? the turtles do the bare-bones of formalities with him (half the time they don't even bother) and splinter says nothing! wdym he's traditional? i get that people are probably are trying to say he's strict but still 😅

[certifieduruihater]

was rewatching an episode and could not help jotting down some notes for myself 😭 get these turtles out of my brain!!

Season 1 - Episode 4 : New Friend, Old Enemy

Love raph just straight up tackling his brothers when doing that flip over the gap competition thing 😭

All in good fun guys!

Donnie: you didnt do any flips 🤓👆

Leo does tend to repeat Splinter’s lessons, gets defensive when talking to Donnie even though Donnie was agreeing with his previous opinion. Feels like Leo was more trying to convince himself to seek victory, not fairness

Mikey tells April she has to like them because they saved her 

:/

Mikey took the meaning of online friends literally, Raph says to let him go because he has to learn somehow - not super overprotective, has some trust in Mikey that he can take care of himself. ig no one else really pushes

Mikey straight up ditches the guys while on a mission/stakeout thing to go hang out with Chris Bradford - selfish, prioritizes his own needs

One of the first things he mentions to Chris Bradford is how he thinks his brothers don’t respect him

He doesn't talk about their traits, how THEY are, but immediately relates it back to him (he does call them good dudes though)

Seemingly 0 self awareness on why they wouldn't respect him

Braford shows him the Death Dragon, tells him not to show anyone, and then Mikey immediately shows his brothers - loyal to his brothers while being simultaneously disrespectful 😭

Donnie and Leo both seem excited + intrigued to learn it (+raph too, he’s just pretending not to care)

Donnie is not uninterested in ninjutsu! he was actually admiring the efficacy of the move!

Mikey does not hesitate to rub in his brother’s faces that he has a human friend

Does so “casually” and walks away

Takes pride in having a leg up on his brothers in a way?

Why is Bradford built like a Ken doll

who was gonna tell me that bradford and mr krabs share a va

Splinter sees Leo pull off the Death Dragon, reminds him of when Shredder pulled that on him

Remembers Shredder’s evil look as he loomed over Yoshi most of all (emphasis on the look on Saki's face)

Dude suffers from flashbacks (we knew this already though)

Shredder-Leo and Splinter-Raph parallel? Kinda dubious though. feels like the emphasis was more on splinter's trauma/recognition of the move

Raph has been compared to Splinter’s past self before

They are lucky splinter caught them practicing otherwise they wouldn't have realized that Bradford is Shredder’s student + his plan

They would be dead without splinter!!

When xever and bradford (in helmet) ambush mikey, he first thinks that something happened to chris

Partial denial? Also prioritizes friends?

Nvm dude didn’t realize until he took his helmet off

The texturing on their masks is so good??

Wah sad mikey 

:/

Raph and Leo don’t hate each other! They immediately go for this when Leo catches up (Raph does not think he’s too cool for his)

Donnie’s contraption made out of scrap parts, a pencil and gum - he doesn’t really have much to work with; also coincides with tidbit from artbook - when you really look at how they work, his inventions really aren’t super genius level

What makes donnie “smart” to me is the ingenuity of his ideas and how he makes do with what he has

But he’s not a super genius. donnie feels more grounded to me in this sense

Wow they don’t hate mikey! Who would have thought??

How strong are the humans in this gosh dang show man?? Xever and Bradford are nuts

Instead of taking the opening to attack Bradford while he launches Leo, Raph moves to catch Leo 😭

Mikey does not hesitate to take Bradford down once he knows of his alliance to Shredder - looks happy to beat him up actually

They’re so disrespectful they laugh at xever and bradford after they get swept away 😭

They talk so casually to Splinter

Raph checks in on Mikey after and asks how he’s doing

Still says it’s his fault but also says he’s awesome, not to be hard on himself, and that he deserves better friends

Honest! But cares!

Mikey unfriends Bradford in revenge - doesn’t linger in emotions, especially after that pep talk from Raph

[certifieduruihater]

the karai and leo ship/dynamic is...so weird to talk about. first of all majority of the fandom just shuts down the discussion with INCEST which...i get it? but at the same time i also see why it wouldnt cross people's minds? im ngl when i watched the show as a kid, incest really didnt cross my mind for a number of reasons. 1. how the mutagen works is kinda finicky and not really well explained. so does being mutated by a donor's dna make you related to that donor? like when snakeweed was mutated by the plants, is he related to the plants now? when bradford was mutated, is he related to his dog? like karai is splinter's daughter, and the turtles are related to splinter because they were mutated with splinter's dna ..is that how that works? supposing the turtles do have splinter's dna embedded in them now which allows for their mutation and human-like features, idk if that's what the show was going for, because splinter's dna can't explain everything. like how do the turtles have such different eye colors then? how does leo have dark blue eyes while raph has nickelodeon slime green eyes? where were the genes for those? shen and yoshi (in human form) both had brown eyes. they could be carrying a recessive gene ig but still. or did they always have that eye color in turtle form? but those are exceedingly rare colors, and when they were children the turtles just had black stare-into-your-soul-eyes?? actually is it even confirmed that they were mutated from splinter's dna? or from someone else like the pet shop workers? idk?? i just never really thought about it too deeply (and i suspect you're not really meant to), and the show never really pushed it. and the distinction of the turtles being biologically related to splinter or not just never really mattered to me, because either way, it's clear that splinter views them as his kids. splinter and the turtle's relationship is a great depiction of family, regardless of whether they share blood. and honestly, i don't think any of the writers would have pushed leo and karai if it was actually incest. stuff like this is why incest never really crossed my mind on a technical level.

and 2. do karai and leo actually see each other as siblings? when its revealed that she's splinter's daughter leo sees her as part of the clan, sure. idk about karai. but do they actually see each other as siblings, or is this something the fandom just made up? i just remember their dynamic being really vague honestly. leo was super devoted to helping karai and finding her, treating her as one of the clan and devoted to helping her return. then there was this one line by leo to donnie that was something along the lines of he should know what its like because of april, which COULD have romantic connotations, or it could just be referencing the supposedly super strong bond the show likes to pretend april and donnie have. you also have instances where karai and leo dont actually seem romantically interested in each other, at least not anymore. i think leo even jokes to karai about it at some point, and KARAI is the one to look awkward, which to me signals that leo's over any sort of attraction he may have had. regardless, its not really clear if they explicitly see each other as siblings or if they feel something romantic.

side note: to all people rewriting the series to have raph and donnie clown on leo for falling for his "sister," you guys know that THEY were the ones actively joking about and thus perpetuating a romance between those two? they were the ones being weird about it! i know people are just using raph and donnie as author inserts to laugh at leo but it just doesnt work here.

MIKEY calls her sis (even this could be chalked up to his general use of language), but idk if raph or donnie ever really warm up to karai, let alone see her as their sister. and when people call them all siblings it really just feels like the fandom is squeezing these characters together, locking them in a room, and telling them to play nice. like wouldnt their dynamic be a lot more complicated than that? on the turtles side, this girl whos been trying to kill them, who they thought was the daughter of their enemy, is now suddenly their sister? talk about jarring. i can see mikey accepting it pretty easily bc he's mikey, but raph and donnie? i feel like it would take them longer to warm up to her, let alone get to a "sibling" level. slapping the sibling label onto karai feels like youre disregarding a lot of complicated emotions that would need to be worked out first. and honestly, even if they do work things out im still not sure theyd get to the sibling level. and there's nothing wrong with that, imo. this is not even talking about karai herself, who would also probably have A LOT of complicated feelings about being the daughter of the man she was raised to hate and being a part of his clan. add the "sibling" part onto that? oh boy. i feel like it would make karai distant and reluctant to get involved if they seriously started considering her a sister.

honestly what seems more likely to me is that the writers wanted to have their cake and eat it too. karai says to leo, just because i like you doesnt mean ill go easy on you. does she clarify what kind of like? of course not! maybe there were writers with different agendas or whatever, but either way you're left with karai and leo's dynamic just being really ambiguous and not really clearly addressed.

even if they're not related by blood/DNA, whatever, i know this is still a touchy subject for people because they believe that saying they dont see each other as siblings invalidates situations like step siblings, adoption, etc. but this is where i personally draw the line between fiction and reality. i think for this instance, fiction cant be a 1:1 representation of reality. this is a unique situation in itself. (i also dont think that this ship/dynamic is worth getting that heated about, nor is it worth putting much energy into honestly. it was not very fleshed out imo. my point is if you're looking for found family rep i dont think you should be looking at karai's relationship with the hamato clan. it's not the best example imo 😅 and if you're looking for a good ship with leo...idk this aint it chief.)

yeah i dont ship them. not because its incest, but because i just dont think theyd make good partners for one another. karai...girls got issues she needs to work out. i dont think shes very reliable, and she seems like the type to actively run away from responsibility. im not really too into karai's character as a whole, but thats a topic for another day. this may sound cliche, but i just dont think karai is the influence that leo needs. yeah she'll influence him sure...in the wrong ways. and i think leo would very quickly turn into karai's manic pixie dream boy who devotes himself to fixing all of karais problems which...i dont think he needs. dudes got enough on his plate.

personally, ill choose to believe that on both ends, what they felt for each other was nothing more than passing curiosity. MAYBE fleeting attraction, and that's a hard maybe, or at least it very quickly went away, because i remember the scene where karai was up in leo's space, and leo did not look into it all 😭 anyway leo felt undermined by his brothers, was tired of being responsible, and out popped karai looking for a good time. karai is karai. they were both distractions for each other initially. and leo chooses to believe in the good of people, so he kept talking to her. and then they found out she was splinter's daughter, blah blah blah you know the rest

[certifieduruihater]

12 casey has always felt like the most unshippable character to me so imagine my surprise when i found out he was shipped with like all of the main cast 😭

[certifieduruihater]

Yes, someone gets me!! Thank goodness someone also thinks that the rise turtles aren’t that scary, ESPECIALLY when compared to the other versions. Oh, rise would be cracking jokes, sure, while also being terrified of these other turtles! The only reason that the rise turtles are doing so well is because of the more comedic villains in their series that matches their show’s tone; you plop them into any other universe with the other villains and the rise turtles would be dead! And as much as some rise fans like to dunk on 87…you’re right! In terms of tone, I feel as though the two series are much more comparable. Also yes, 12 shredder is literally insane. Man literally tanked getting straight up chomped on by a mutant alligator and STILL had enough gas in the tank to take splinter down later. No way the rise turtles are taking him down. you're way nicer than me though; i can see their first fight ending in a draw, but ultimately, i still say that the 12 boys could take down rise.

I don’t mind rise as a series; what bugs me is when people start saying things that are blatantly untrue to bring down the other versions of tmnt. Stick with the facts, man!

question: why do the rise boys being "purposefully genetically bioengineered weapons of war" matter so much in the context of crossovers?

how does this make them any more powerful than the other iterations? you guys know that they're ALL mutants, right? so it's likely that they ALL have some form of enhanced abilities like super strength, super speed, healing factor, etc? they ALL have superhuman physiologies to some degree, what makes rise special?

so many rise fans will just drop that phrase and not elaborate bc it's supposedly self evident, but it's really not? like what specifically are you trying to say about the rise boys that gives them a leg up on the other iterations?

they were purposefully mutated with lou jitsu's DNA. yeah, so? what does it being purposeful have to do with anything? why does that matter? because lou jitsu was a great fighter, a battle nexus champion? okay, and? the 12 turtles were accidentally mutated with hamato yoshi's dna. hamato yoshi was an incredible fighter, the heir to the hamato clan, master of ninjutsu. the distinction of it being purposeful or accidental doesnt matter. also guess what? most of these iterations have been training for YEARS under dedicated tutelage, unlike rise.

on a similar note, why would any of the other iterations be scared of the rise turtles? i see so much art and fic with the rise boys' "scary" glowing markings, scary looking expressions, but like...most of these iterations have faced worse, guys. rise aint special

[certifieduruihater]

question: why do the rise boys being "purposefully genetically bioengineered weapons of war" matter so much in the context of crossovers?

how does this make them any more powerful than the other iterations? you guys know that they're ALL mutants, right? so it's likely that they ALL have some form of enhanced abilities like super strength, super speed, healing factor, etc? they ALL have superhuman physiologies to some degree, what makes rise special?

so many rise fans will just drop that phrase and not elaborate bc it's supposedly self evident, but it's really not? like what specifically are you trying to say about the rise boys that gives them a leg up on the other iterations?

they were purposefully mutated with lou jitsu's DNA. yeah, so? what does it being purposeful have to do with anything? why does that matter? because lou jitsu was a great fighter, a battle nexus champion? okay, and? the 12 turtles were accidentally mutated with hamato yoshi's dna. hamato yoshi was an incredible fighter, the heir to the hamato clan, master of ninjutsu. the distinction of it being purposeful or accidental doesnt matter. also guess what? most of these iterations have been training for YEARS under dedicated tutelage, unlike rise.

on a similar note, why would any of the other iterations be scared of the rise turtles? i see so much art and fic with the rise boys' "scary" glowing markings, scary looking expressions, but like...most of these iterations have faced worse, guys. rise aint special

[certifieduruihater]

will never forgive the 03 fans for starting the "leo can't cook" fandom trend. absolutely no basis in canon. and for what? "he's too perfect??" did y'all miss his whole character arc??

and not only that, it had to carry on into the fandoms of other iterations too 😭you guys just couldnt let it die, huh. once again i wonder why fandom is so enamored with incompetence

[certifieduruihater]

listen im not saying murder is their go-to move, but i dont think they really have any issues with it either 😭

[certifieduruihater]

wish we got to learn more about april's character outside of when she hangs out with the turtles. maybe part of the reason for this is because the writers wanted to make her a "part of the team," hence the reason why we only ever see her with the turtles, but that logic doesnt hold up when the guys themselves have established personalities on their own. like we know what every single one of the turtles does for a hobby. but i still don't know what april likes to do for fun. she can draw, sure, but is that her hobby? idk. she journaled after their defeat during the invasion, but did she always do that or was that just a one time thing? she never really struck me as incredibly reflective or introspective, either. she's more of a "go out and get 'em" kind of person to me.

i wish we could have gotten to see more of what she's like at school, too. how come she doesn't have more friends? she's a nice girl, and she doesn't strike me as particularly shy. is there some other reason? she signed up for extra credit classes, but why? does she need more credit? is she studious? enjoys school? why was she failing trig? bad at math? bad at trig itself? doesn't want to study? no time to study ever since mutant insanity invaded her life/grief over her father? it's these little questions that i think would have painted a better picture of april's character.

and this is what i mean when i say i wish she had better writing. april is not a bad character. she's not "ungrateful." she's not a "brat." she's not a "b****." from what we do see of her, she's kind and friendly, but can also be incredibly stubborn and a little prideful.

when she blows up at the turtles for getting her dad mutated? completely understandable. the guys got cocky and reckless (which was another point of the episode). they did not prioritize her or her dad's safety. the only reason they were out there was because the turtles insisted, and didnt think of the potential consequences. and yeah. it WAS the turtles' fault that the city got mutated. yes, it was an accident. yes, they were kids. but like i said, they were incredibly cocky, reckless, and arrogant. accept your faves' flaws guys!! and the way mikey delivered the news that it was their fault was...oof. so blasé. not apologetic at all. bro was treating this as a comic book adventure the whole time. no wonder she got mad. i would too, and im an adult. she's 16. of course she's going to say hurtful things in anger (imo what she said in the episode wasnt even that bad. it was understandable, given the situation). of course, it's fine when raph or mikey throw a tantrum (and usually for much more minor reasons), it's fine when donnie explodes in anger, but when april does it, the world ends? april actually blamed herself first, before she found out that it was their fault. her first reaction is NOT to blame others. and part of the reason for her anger was BECAUSE she trusted the guys so much. she spent the episode filled with hope that because of her and her dad's help, they'd be one step closer to taking down the kraang. she didn't even WANT to ask her dad in the first place, considering her dad's been suffering paranoia as a result of being kidnapped from the kraang for an entire season. but she had hope and faith in the turtles as heroes.

she had faith in them, and her entire life fell apart. AGAIN.

that's why when they revealed it was their fault that her dad got mutated, it was a big loss of trust for her. for a whole season april has been going along with the guys shenanigans, agreeing to be bait, wanting to tag along, wanting to be useful. i like this for her character because it shows that she does have a limit. she's not a yes-man for the turtles. she's her own person (which many fans seem to dislike). have fans ever considered that maybe april didnt WANT a crazy life? that she never asked for any of this? that she wanted to be normal? what's wrong with that? and after she and the guys resolve their issues, april even admits that her father's mutation "was an accident, and more importantly, you're my friends. I don't ever want to hold a grudge ever again." she needed that reflection time away from the guys to reach this conclusion.

she endures a whole episode of feeling looked down on by the guys due to a mix of their insensitive comments (raph in particular), as well as her own pride/wanting to be included/not wanting to feel useless mixed in there, sort of snaps at raph ONE TIME (to which raph doesnt even care), and suddenly, she's the devil incarnate. unbelievable.

and another thing: she's not a mary sue. she has flaws. in fact, the fandom actively blows up at her whenever she does display her flaws (pride, stubbornness, willingness to throw herself headfirst into danger). so then what does the fandom want? oh, i know. someone who will bow to the turtles' every whim. someone who has just enough of a character, or can at least pretend to be one, just so long as they don't get in the guys' way. so long as this person doesnt hurt their little pookie-bear. okay tmnt fandom. i see u

so even if we did see what she was like outside of the turtles, i wonder if anyone would even care. after all, this is a show about the turtles. most viewers probably aren't here for april. maybe this is what the writers were thinking? and worse, some people might have even complained about the screentime april would have gotten, saying that it was too much :/

[certifieduruihater]

i feel like there's no one "medic" on the team in 12, which is funny when i think about the fandom's obsession with naming a singular medic. but what seems more likely to me is that all of the brothers know first aid/field medicine to a reasonable extent. i think we've seen almost every turtle do first aid in the show (except mikey but idk ill give him the benefit of the doubt). idk about donnie either but i do remember seeing raph and leo doing it at least; i don't think it's unreasonable to say that donnie probably has some knowledge too. i think this set-up is actually way more practical, because what are they going to do if their "medic" with all the medical knowledge is down for the count? if everyone has some knowledge, then i think that's way safer; splinter probably taught what he knew of field medicine to all of them.

generally, i think they're all pretty self-sufficient, in the sense that if they get a small cut/bruise/scrape they take care of it themselves. i think them getting hurt at all on normal patrols is actually pretty rare because 1. they're that good and 2. i also hc that they have some sort of healing factor (they have to bc how else do they be walking off these major injuries like they're nothing) which contribute to fast recovery times, and most of the time these injuries do heal pretty fast on their own for them so they don't need further care. and if they do get something like a sprain or something they need help with, then whoever's available will assist bc it's within the scope of their knowledge (setting a bone, splinting, etc). but i don't think they'll be going to "doctor donnie" for every injury they have.

which is also funny considering the fandom is like, obsessed with the doctor donnie concept. but being the "smart one" and into science doesn't necessarily mean donnie knows everything. also, id like to point out that science is a diverse field. biology is different from mechanical engineering (which i think donnie is more into). and if donnie aint into it, i dont think he's going to learn it. not extensively, at least. again, i can see him and the others having some basic first aid knowledge. and, once again this is my hc, since the brothers really dont get major injuries that often/they can all heal on their own, why would he devote time to learning medicine? especially when he has other things he'd rather be doing (building MECHS)

now, see, donnie to me is more like the shady witch doctor that lives on the street corner, beckoning you to come into his home and try this shady looking concoction you didn't ask for. remember when he made that concoction for leo to drink to help him recover? hey donnie, what exactly is in this mixture and why do you think it will help? hey donnie, why do you think drinking mutagen is going to help considering all of the things we've seen it do/how it's reacted with their bodies in the past (shellacne, anyone?) who wants to bet that he's never tested it before and this is the first time he's trying it? and then it made leo throw up and then created this huge monster that they had to fight later 😭 so there's the result of donnie's "doctoring" for you.

[certifieduruihater]

really wish the 12 series didnt have raph bring out the splinter's favorite line. they were so close to not doing it. so close to not slapping that on as the reason for raph being raph.

but they did it. and it lowkey still doesnt make any sense? not once in the show were there ever any hints of this being an issue. not once was it ever hinted as something that bugged raph. i think this could have worked, but it needed to have some sort of precedent, and it didnt. this leaves the statement kind of feeling like it came out of left field.

i always got the impression that raph's anger came from other sources. like being cooped up with your brothers for 15 years and not being able to go outside for fear of being hunted down like an animal. no way to release pent up aggression. and when it comes to leo, the first few seasons made it seem like raph's anger was due to his perceived shift in power dynamics. for 15 years he was on equal footing with his brother, and in the span of a day, suddenly he's the leader? maybe raph always did feel some sort of rivalry towards his brother, maybe he was jealous of leo to some degree for his skills/some other reason like that, and these feelings were exacerbated when leo became the leader. but to say raph was actually always jealous of leo because "he was always splinter's favorite?" huh? where did that come from? when was this established? either way for it to work i feel like this should have been brought up before.

and you could chalk it up to raph perceiving leo to be splinter's favorite, and this not actually being the case, but i dont think the series ever explores raphs feelings any deeper than this so idk. and then once again, you'd probably have to establish this earlier if this were to be the case. season 4, which is basically the last season of the main story, should not be the first time we're hearing about this major aspect of raph's character. is it ever even mentioned again??

and honestly, i think slapping this on as the reason for raphs issues is kind of boring at this point. its been done before in so many other characters in other stories. boo. give me something else. youre telling me yall cant look any deeper into raphs character than this, that you have to give a surface level reason? it feels like a cop out to just blame splinter. but hey, if you guys really want someone to blame, SHREDDER IS RIGHT THERE. maybe if they didn't have to live in fear of getting killed their whole lives things would have been different.

i guess im also just bothered by this because now it gives fuel to the "abusive parent splinter" fans who have this weird agenda of completely rewriting splinter's character to be a terrible parent and then blaming all of the boys' issues on him

also, why muddy raph and leo's relationship even more? honestly to me their relationship already started getting muddier by season 2 due to weird writing decisions, but overall i really liked how they genuinely seemed to be good friends and have a close bond with each other. i got the vibe that they liked hanging out with each other in their spare time, and that most of the time they did get along (just look at the amount of times they're just casually hanging out in the background/sparring in their free time/in the same room). it's just that whenever an episode focuses on them, they tended have some sort of conflict due to the nature of an episode, i guess. but when you introduce this to their dynamic it just feels weird. like i guess having this added to their dynamic doesn't have to negate their friendship, but it adds another layer of complexity that the writers just didn't seem to be willing to face/deal with properly

[certifieduruihater]

fanon mikey and 12 mikey are completely different characters. who is this mikey that pushes aside his own feelings to take care of others. the "caretaker/therapist" brother?? MIKEY???

i dont know that dude. yall got the wrong character cuz that aint mikey

[certifieduruihater]

looking at rise and 12 crossover fics (mistake number 1) and sighing at the rampant mischaracterization of EVERYONE, unwarranted 12 april hate, the unfunny april was whitewashed jokes...

[certifieduruihater]

"mom" leo rant

seeing people "fixing" the series by making Leo a "better" older brother, except they treat him like he's a decade older than the others for some reason and expect him to essentially function as another parent for his siblings. WHY

like even if he was 1, 5, or 10 years older than his siblings, he's still just that: their older sibling. not their parent. definitely not their mom.

side note WHY do people think calling leo a mom/group mom is a compliment. it's not 😭 because to me it's just sad. he's a kid too, just like the rest of them. he is literally the same age as his brothers. why does leo alone have to be held to such high standards? why not the others? like i know youre not going to see mikey held to this standard. gee i wonder why??

he's shouldered with all of this responsibility, and somehow the fandom STILL gives him flack for it. why? because not caring enough for you? he's not nurturing enough for you? (got the creeps typing that out) heaven forbid the kid have a personality. heaven forbid he NOT baby his siblings and talks to them like a normal person.

fandom improvement will have leo obsessively fussing over his siblings like they're toddlers and can't care of themselves, speaking to them gently and politely as if they can't handle anything stronger than that. now WHY does the responsibility of taking care of his siblings/making sure they take care of themselves/dealing with their emotional burdens fall on leo? because he's the oldest? because he can handle it? these are not good reasons people!

and if leo treats them any other way it's treated as a moral failing on his part. he's slapped with the "bad sibling" label, all because he didn't meet this arbitrary expectation level. as if that's how relationships work.

dare i go as far to call this creepy. like if you expect this 15 year old kid to act like a pseudo-mom for his 15 year old brothers, if you actively tout this not just as a good thing, but the standard...idk, it's creepy to me!