cloverandstuff
cloverandstuff
Clover
3K posts
Tyche | Basil | Clover || Any pronouns + neoprns I used to write and draw but now I just analyse and accidentally give people breakdowns.
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cloverandstuff · 21 hours ago
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Have I done a makeover of my blog because of the new art?
...Yes. Yes I have. And I regret nothing. She is beautiful and also my wife.
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cloverandstuff · 21 hours ago
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Mizi and Sua's relationship isn't as "perfect" as it's been portrayed until now.
According to "The True Face", where Mizi notes that her and Sua had a fight recently, and the backstage of My Clematis appears the same during the teaser.
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Despite that... Mizi isn't a monster.
She isn't a cruel manipulator who hates everyone, nor is she someone who acts oblivious on purpose to gain sympathy.
She isn't a murderer out for blood.
Mizi is a survivor who's brain taught her that her survival, her facade, are the reason for her friends' deaths.
"The True Face" portrays first a twisted image of Sua, the one she loved, the one she last saw laying lifeless in a pool of her own blood, calling her cunning and taunting her for ,,throwing her, and then all her other friends away". Explaining that she must feel like a waste. Must be nice, right? To be the sole survivor, since after the death of Luka's entire world, he can barely count as alive. To remain the last one standing, stepping on the musty, dark pile of the corpses whose deaths she thinks she caused.
Well, the phrase "Must be nice, right?" has haunted her her whole life. She's pretty, oblivious, comes from a nice alien family, she most definetly hasn't seen the horrors! No one expects her to have seen how bad the reality they live in truly is. Poor girl, doesn't understand what is going on even when slapped because of her repulsion for eventually having to mate with a male, doesn't understand why her friend can't stop liking her. Her outburst when her God told her the same phrase must have been just a one time thing! But no. It wasn't. Mizi has always been surrounded by death and gore, her tantrums were adorable and her cries were just "the hardships of children." Maybe she should have a TV, no? She saw her "provider" crushed at such a young age and she was adopted right after: that was the last human interaction she had until Alien Stage.
That's probably why she seems so fascinated about Sua's anatomy being the same as her's. She's so alienated that humanity seems foreign to her, as if she isn't part of the species.
At first, when I saw the image of Mizi looking so intently at the contestant being shot, I thought she was searching death for herself. But after reading the next pages... yes, she was looking for a place where she could crush someone. But again: she could. It's a hypothetical way of wording it. It doesn't mean she wanted to kill someone. (Maybe except Luka in Round 5, more on that later.) It means she was glad that in case it was needed, she could, so her grief about Sua, Till, Ivan and Hyuna's deaths are real, unlike what some people have been saying after the two comics came out.
Mizi, just like we've learned about Luka, doesn't really know the concept of being human. She, just like him, only knows suffering, but her facade doesn't inflict the same: quite the opposite. By acting the way she is, she attracts people. She makes them happy. She makes them love her, as much as she doesn't like this. They love her until her obliviousness gets too much and they get annoyed with her, or until she slips and again, they get annoyed with her. There really is no way of winning here, is there?
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I personally think that the frame of the two hands, holding eachother like they are praying, between them, a squished heart, bleeding and nailed down, represents Mizi trying to protect Sua's heart. Atleast, the organ is definetly her's, because of the lyrics in "heart" : From iron to red drench. It seems like Mizi, just like she said, can crush Sua if she wants.. and she's doing it without realizing. Between the two women, there's a sense of codependency, but they also find the other oblivious and fragile, trying to protect them, but ending up hurting them even more. The photo is like she's praying to a Christian relic, but crumbling it down to nothing in the process.
According to Sweet Dream, it's safe to assume that Luka wasn't an example shown on screen just for Till. And, with Mizi's like for Alien Stage from a young age, I doubt she didn't already know who he was. And that also counts for his fragility.
I believe that it wasn't the way Luka acted that reminded Mizi of Sua, but their shared fragility. Their elegance and empty gaze. And, because of how similar they appear, enough to give her hallucinations, I think that she associates them. Hence, beating Luka up in Round 5 might have been truly murderous: she didn't want to kill Sua, but she did mention that she could.. if that's what she wished for. So, she might've thought she could just kill him too, because she really wanted to, right?
It's really interesting how Mizi and Luka being the last survivors has been hinted from a simple design choice: both of them having blue tips, Mizi's hair and Luka's fingers. It was quite clear (but I, for example, didn't notice this) that they would be important. Also, Luka getting so little content should've been an indicator too. Currently, he's the only one without a comic from his perspective and he has the least amount of songs, so there must be more about him.
To end this off, I have 4 possible outcomes now:
-Everyone dies
-Mizi is the last one standing
-Luka is the last one standing (let's be honest, currently, that's the worst possible outcome for him, he'd just be put in the system all over again and abused even harsher)
-They both live, but are put back into the system (well that would hurt!.. but it's unlikely)
Personally, I want for Luka to live. I want him to learn and have Hyuna's death propped onto his shoulders. I want him to experience guilt, unimaginable guilt, but learn to forgive himself. Killing him off now, after just learning that he was, infact, loved back, and that he should learn to love himself too, would be so useless.
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cloverandstuff · 21 hours ago
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EVERYONE, NEW ART OF MY WIFE!!
oh, and Till's there too i guess
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cloverandstuff · 1 day ago
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wondering omfg when did they fight, why were they arguing, but this would be perfectly in line with a moment where Mizi's doubts and fear come to light, as she's aware of the outcome of this round if one of them loses, and it gets to her but Sua is possibly still insisting that they could get a tie, and Mizi ends up naively believing in it later on, just to convey the complexity behind their behavior and hopefulness on stage (and why Mizi would come to resent that Sua didn't tell her the truth, the full truth, despite knowing . And then leaving Mizi clueless on what to do and following her lead, that choice set Mizi up to watch it all go down helplessly ) ... not completely sure obviously
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cloverandstuff · 1 day ago
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its you!
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despite everything, it's still you.
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cloverandstuff · 1 day ago
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I'm gonna eventually scream later about how this might be symbolism for Mizi ginally moving on past Sua's death, and just cutting her off from haunting her narrative
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cloverandstuff · 1 day ago
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NO LESBIANS, DON'T FIGHT, PLEASE
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cloverandstuff · 1 day ago
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I’m excited and terrified at the same time. I’m NOT ready for whatever’s coming
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cloverandstuff · 1 day ago
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I just explained the Dream SMP lore using what animaics survived the great fall and I have come to a realization.
I am still not over c!tommy. That boy haunts my narrative.
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cloverandstuff · 2 days ago
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when the entity possessing your soul wants to listen in on the yuri developing in the other room
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cloverandstuff · 2 days ago
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ivtiweek day 4 - childhood + music !!
I'd like to think that it was Ivan who taught till how to play the guitar 😗
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cloverandstuff · 3 days ago
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My Experience reading a fic, a short quip
Character says he knows who his soulmate is
Me: YES YES YES-
It's the wrong fucking person, he got confused and thinks its the wrong person
Me: NO NO NO-
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cloverandstuff · 3 days ago
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How the fuck have we reached a point where Till is the most normal character is Alien Stage?
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This is a boy who literally smashed his alien guitar on stage. A canonical music genius. A boy who was put through hell.
And he is somehow the most normal person in the cast.
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cloverandstuff · 3 days ago
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All evidence Till survives (4/4)
Narrative Criticisms:
1. Feels empty or that there's something missing
It could be said a series is defined by the emotions it invokes in its audience. Here are some ways fans described Round 7 and Till's death:
disappointing
dissatisfying
premature
incomplete
lacking
stale
repetitive
flat
stagnant
anticlimactic
wasteful
senseless
pointless
pessimistic
unjustified
a bad choice
all for nothing
Hardcore fans will later jump to defend the creators and story by looking for justifications, but the initial feelings and impression still matter. Casual fans will not look that deep.
2. Does not make sense narratively
@tillsfan explained Ivan has served as the narrator in the story of both himself and Till. Sua and Ivan's goals were fulfilled and impacted the other characters and story. Till's character didn't develop after Mizi's disappearance nor Ivan's death. He didn't have the opportunity to impact the story nor to be impacted. His character is wasted. He is deprived of his potential.
@cloverandstuff recognized that it dehumanizes him and removes his autonomy even within his own narrative.
Till dying in Round 7 ends his character arc mid-way, right after learning of Ivan's feelings. Only his abuse and his infatuation with Mizi were told from his perspective. We never learned how he felt about Ivan before Alien Stage and how he felt after Round 6 and Round 7. He didn't have time to process Ivan's death and neither did we as the viewers.
It's nonsensical to tell his story after he no longer has a role in the story. We can only learn about his past, because he has no future. Yet his character is shrouded in mystery with unanswered questions. @tillsfan described it: "the dots aren't connecting the same way as they have for previous deaths."
Round 7 itself served little purpose. @fandom-drake pointed out we learned nothing new about the characters nor their relationship. It was predictable and redundant. "First we replace a traumatized Mizi with Till. Now a traumatized Till with Mizi."
@yumetill noted Wiege brushed over his death and went straight to Hyuna and Luka's story.
3. Negates Ivan's character and Round 6
What did Ivan die for if Till doesn't have the chance to process it after his death? Was Till not meant to realize Ivan's feelings and reflect on his presence in his life? All Till ever did is suffer and turn a blind eye to his reality until it broke him completely. @rockwgooglyeyes expressed it as "[Ivan's] merely used as a bludgeon to whack over Till's head and put him into the grave."
@rockwgooglyeyes also noted that it validates Ivan's perception of himself as an unlovable monster. We only see their relationship through Ivan's perspective. His actions are used to hurt Till and that leads to Till's death. There is no other result.
@atrophiedemotion summarized Till and Ivan's stories are reduced to nothing but trauma for the viewer and for Mizi's character development. The motivation that defined Ivan's character amounts to nothing.
4. Nihilistic thematically
Alien Stage is said to be about hope and love. The only theme Till's death brings is hopelessness.
Here's some interpretations of the meaning of Till's death:
your efforts may be in vain by @geospiral
your life can be futile by @k9punkout
the insignificance of humanity by @theogony
cruelty of the world by @one-selective-bitch
not everyone gets to tell their own narrative by @cepheusgalaxy
not everyone gets to finish their own story by @cepheusgalaxy
your emotions will be invalidated by @rockwgooglyeyes
seeking happiness is pointless by @rockwgooglyeyes
hope can be crushed by @rockwgooglyeyes
life is unjust by @rockwgooglyeyes
you cannot always overcome the system by @rockwgooglyeyes
time will run out by @crustyfloor
it can be too late to be saved by @crustyfloor
there is always more to lose by @rockwgooglyeyes
Till and Ivan's characters amount to: there is nothing they can do against their oppressors. They are fated to die no matter who or how they love. This isn't what Alien Stage is about.
This is what the creators say the series is about...
In the very first work log:
What's the message that you want to get across to the viewers? <In the Alien Stage>, boys and girls on Earth will perform a survival performance in space. They love each other and fight, and that comes with sacrifice. It would be nice if the viewers could think about the form of "love" by watching the stories of each character.
In Behind The Scenes of Final Round:
I can imagine [Luka] smirking as he looks down on the new participants, who get swept away by their emotions. In truth, they are strong individuals who, in a space that seems inhumane, seek to connect by loving others.
In Behind the Scenes of ALNST 2nd Anniversary Pop-Up Store:
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And at the Animate Alien Stage fan event:
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While it's true it's a survival show, with dark themes and tragic sacrifices, at it's heart, ALNST is about humanity finding love in each other even in the darkest of places. And each character represents this in their own way.
I think it is necessary for Till to "die" in Round 7 to show just exactly how much of an effect Ivan's death had on Till - while also furthering Mizi's character development. But that he'll survive because without doing so his story (and his story with Ivan) is incomplete and thus the story of Alien Stage is incomplete.
Official Commentary
Till is a deuteragonist
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This is written in the very first work log for Alien Stage available on the Patreon. This is almost certainly referring to Till, since his character sheet is posted at the top alongside Mizi and Sua. It was published during the production of episodes 1 and 2.
It makes sense. Till has been a main character in more episodes than most, second only behind Mizi. Accordingly, the amount of screentime he has is significantly greater than each of the other four characters'.
Dead characters impact on alive characters
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There are three pairings each within one character witnessed the death of the other: Sua for Mizi, Ivan for Till, and Hyuna for Luka. @crustyfloor expressed that their deaths are painful and unforgettable, and yet those who witnessed it must live on. For Till to die here, @starrykorail stated, he (and Ivan) are then excluded from the purpose of the story. @verdantlights summarized Ivan's death is meant to haunt the narrative, and specifically, it's meant to haunt Till.
@starrykorail explained Till's death furthers Mizi's character development, but her narrative is already haunted by Sua. Mizi and Till were friends but they were not that close. @crustyfloor elaborated that the relationship between Mizi and Till lacks the intimate emotional connection that Ivan and Till had with each other. Ivan and Till are two halves of a whole. @crustyfloor concluded: Till is the only one who can complete their story.
Gatekeeping Till's POV
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The creators have been tight-lipped and secretive about Till's character and his thoughts after Round 6 and Round 7. More than once fans have asked about it and did not receive an answer. That means the creators are waiting to reach a certain point in the story before revealing any more information about Till's perspective. He remains crucial to the story.
The entire team adores Till
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Vivinos drew herself (blue) and QMENG (green) alongside Luka and Ivan.
In 2nd Episode Production Review that Finished Drawing in 4 Days To Go To Kirby Pop-Up Store, the team cheered that Till's storyboard captured his characteristics. They predicted "ALNST would be popular" because of episode 2. The team is always enthusiastic and proud when it comes to Till's character - consistently having moments of "it works!" or "this is it!"
They also always talk about Till endearingly. In the Behind the Scenes of FINAL ROUND, one of the favorite scenes is "the final moment that captures Till's shy expressions." It's explained that "a lot of thought went into conveying Till's boyish infatuation and emotions." He's described as having a "pure nature" and that "he's just a boy experiencing the innocence of first love." And in ABOUT <ALIEN STAGE : Drowning Bloom>, this is what is written about him:
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Honestly that they love Till so much is probably why they're hiding so much about him (and also why they put him through so much). It gives the sense they have something special planned for him.
Foreshadowing | Observations | Official Art & Symbolism
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cloverandstuff · 3 days ago
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All evidence Till survives (1/4)
I'm way late to making this post, but I've never believed that Till died. Here's why:
Foreshadowing
1. Being Shot
Many fans have heard of the "red tape theory." But did you know Till being shot has been foreshadowed at least two other times, potentially non-fatally? The first time was back in early May 2024 in this art for ALNST Friday:
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@crustyfloor noticed the bubble gun pointed directly at Till's head and the impact motion lines of a gunshot on the other side. They speculated that since it's not an actual weapon but a bubble gun, Till would be shot in the future but the wound would be non-fatal.
Then, for those who don't know, the "red tape theory" refers to this album cover art from late September last year:
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The idea is the tape is meant to symbolize a bandage or perhaps a scar: a treatable wound. The splatter indicates where he will be shot (the same as above).
Next, @rotingdoll noticed in the teaser trailer for Round 7, a crosshair made of light appears, and a moment later that creates a flash of light over Till:
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Similar to the bubble gun, it could be argued a crosshair of light is also meant to symbolize non-fatality, since light is usually harmless, just like bubbles. The light passes through him from top to bottom, covering him only fleetingly.
@kitsquared noted the same symbolism happening here as well:
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This time, the light isn't even covering him but is behind him. The burst of light is in the same location as the impact motion lines and the red tape: over his branding.
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Blood spray from a bullet comes from the exit wound, not the entry, according to @verdantlights. In other words, Till was not shot from the right but from the left, the exact same location as was foretold.
2. Round 5 & Round 7 Parallels:
@cepheusgalaxy pointed out Ruler of My Heart and Blink Gone are the only rounds Luka is a contestant in. As such, Mizi and Till fall prey to the same psychological manipulation that exploits their trauma and grief. In parallel, both Sua and Ivan purposefully lost so that Mizi and Till would win - and therefore live.
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(Gifs from @sailermoon)
@noven-warsh outlined Luka's strategy:
1. taunting them with intimacy
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2. reminding them of their dead loved ones
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(Gifs again from @sailermoon)
3. and then maintaining his composure as they lose theirs'.
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@mikhardwheat noted Mizi and Till are equally overwhelmed, they've had no time to process the deaths' of Sua and Ivan, and are surrounded by reminders of their grief. @cepheusgalaxy pointed out Mizi and Till are both extremely emotional.
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They both struggle to focus and engage in the competition.
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They look to the crowd and are demoralized by the overwhelming support from Luka's loyal fanbase.
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Meanwhile, Till is witnessing Mizi's round, and Mizi is witnessing Till's round.
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Even more significantly, as again identified by @cepheusgalaxy, Hyuna has returned to the stage. Ruler of My Heart is the only round no one died.
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Not only is Round 7 a replay of Round 5, it's also cyclical. Mizi has returned to the competition. The rebellion is back on the stage again. We've come full circle.
Observations | Official Art & Symbolism | Criticisms & Commentary
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cloverandstuff · 3 days ago
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Everyday, I thank whatever the fuck rus the universe that I left twitter. I do not need to argue about character mischaracterization with a bunch of stubborn fools.
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cloverandstuff · 3 days ago
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As a Till from Alnst fan, and an Ajax from Genshin Impact fan, today has been a great day.
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