collectivephilosopher

[collectivephilosopher]

Silco literally talks his way into independence with Jayce tho...

"Zaun was better served by joint with Piltover not separating" <- you know what happened when they're in jointed as the same city? Police brutality, discrimination, Piltover dumping waste to Zaun without care, massacre, arrest without warrant, breach of privacy, gassing, Silco & Jinx.

Do people forget Piltover and Zaun are the same city just different region? Because Piltover's council is "responsible" for Zaun, that means they can apply anything to Zaun without consequence of law because they are THE LAW. Talking to Piltover result in massacre. Fighting with Piltover at least make them start concerning and looking at Zaun also more violence but at least Zaun gets their attention. The story needs third party + magical hivemind world ending threat (which also made by piltover btw) to make Zaun has no other choice other than fighting for and with Piltover to get ONE council seat in which will get voted out each time anyways.

"To defeat oppression you must fight for and with your oppressor" <- what a joke.

Whether or not Silco will be a good leader is a tomorrow's problem because AT LEAST he DOES CARES.

did the fanbase have collective amnesia on silco or something.

like, no shit he's not a good person.

but there's nuance to his character. he isn't sitting in some evil lair, twirling his mustache.

he does cares about zaun. and improvement did actually come to zaun.

he loves and cherishes jinx, even if their relationship was toxic. that's his daughter.

he doesn't hate vander.

i thought we all collectively agreed that silco is one of the most well-written, in-depth, human antagonists in modern memory.

[collectivephilosopher]

did the fanbase have collective amnesia on silco or something.

like, no shit he's not a good person.

but there's nuance to his character. he isn't sitting in some evil lair, twirling his mustache.

he does cares about zaun. and improvement did actually come to zaun.

he loves and cherishes jinx, even if their relationship was toxic. that's his daughter.

he doesn't hate vander.

i thought we all collectively agreed that silco is one of the most well-written, in-depth, human antagonists in modern memory.

[collectivephilosopher]

Ay, at least she tried to justify herself unlike a certain someone.

Caitlyn and Vi weaponizing toxic air pollution against the undercity and then Jinx and Sevika using Janna’s temple to recreate her legendary miracle by blowing that toxic air back onto Piltover.

Jinx (and Sevika) just became the hero Zaun needs.

[collectivephilosopher]

fans of arcane who hate maddie always makes me laugh. because like yeah, i don't particularly like her either. she's not much of a character honestly and she was somehow a worse twist villain than all those disney twist villain. she was so forgettable and yet her whole betrayal was so predictable and not surprising at all.

but fans don't hate her because she's a boring character or because she betrayed caitlyn, oh no no, they hate her because she came in between vi and caitlyn.

and again, i'm not like a maddie superfan either but it's such a childish reason to hate on her. first of all, it's not like vi and caitlyn were in a relationship when maddie slept with caitlyn (and if it was, i think caitlyn would be more to blame).

and secondly, y'all act like maddie forced herself onto caitlyn or something. sure, caitlyn was at an emotional low but she was very much in her right mind and she consented to sleeping with maddie.

and sure, maddie was manipulating and lying to caitlyn. but idk who bought that act for even a second. i don't even think caitlyn herself believed it. it was clear from the get-go that maddie was supposed to be the super nice character who turns out to be evil later on. and her betrayal wasn't even set up well because she has so little screentime, you barely remember her during the big reveal.

overall, maddie was an unnecessary and poorly written one-dimensional character and it's hilarious to me that fans despise her SO MUCH. genuinely there are people out there who swear that maddie is this evil, twisted monster like come on, she's barely even a character, y'all 😭

[collectivephilosopher]

Just gonna add a little for the first part (though everytime i said that i always ended up writing paragraphs). Caitlyn gassed Zaun before she was "thrusted into power by actual dictactor". Second the entire thing about Ambessa somehow able to make Caitlyn a commander is so weird. Ambessa was literally a guest yet she could overpower a council member and appointed a rando as highest commander of Piltover's military.

Also, Caitlyn was... as I remember it in S1, one—a low ranking officer, two—was fired. Let's exclude number two for a moment. I don't believe there was no one more senior or more higher ranking (in enforcer) than caitlyn that is more naturally appropriate for the title. This is why the assumption is Caitlyn was able to reach that high of a rank in such short time (decorated officer) just because of her family name.

Lastly, what the hell was caitlyn's good intention? Was it capturing Jinx? Was she capturing Jinx for good intention? I thought this was clear as a no. She did it for revenge.

If she trully had good intention, the show never showed it. They should've made caitlyn trying to justify her action. Not the show, but the character herself. Idk, something like trying to use gas weaponry to "clear the street" like Vi said (but this is Vi saying it and it was also inconsistent in the narrative). But this require the narrative to admit that includes gassing civilians.

caitlyn stans are accusing me of "not being able to appreciate a complex morally grey character" because i criticize caitlyn kiramman's arc awful writing. actually i would have liked caitlyn 20 times more if they let her really be cruel on screen, instead of having her play dictator for no more than thirty (30), shallow minutes.

[collectivephilosopher]

I agree with a all of this. Like, it doesn't matter what caitlyn arc is, it just has to be written good. There is this theory going around that it was fortiche who included all the french revolution imageries (because they were french lmao). Again this is a theory, and mostly a joke so it's not like a confirmed thing. It seems like the writters (the S2 writters) doesn't actually want to write a revolution story from the very start. They just want Jinx to be a hero but also Caitlyn to be a hero but they seem to have bias towards Piltover.

That being said, I'm gonna add some more about the French revolution aspect of the op's post. Keep in mind I'm not a historian, I just read a lot about it in the past (it's also just me yapping about history lmao).

There are three revolutions that were often confused with each other. The French revolution, the July revolution, and the June rebellion.

The french revolution was initially about reforming the monarchy. In fact, it was supported by Marquis de Lafayette and Duke of Orléans. They're the liberal noblility trying to support the people. The movement spiralled to abolishing the house of Bourbon and Lafayette who was opposed of radical changes flee France after the monarchy fallen.

The French revolution is the one with Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette. They're actually the less aggregious ones with lavish spending. Like it's still abhorrent but it's dialed down compared to (and because the comparison is) the previous kings.

Marie Antoinette does spend lavishly especially in her youth. She was a young girl, princess of Austria, who were married for political purpose to Louis Auguste (Louis XVI), who were resented by the house of Bourbon due to Xenophobia. They deem her having "Low taste". So she tried to be the most lavish princess. But keep in mind that her spending was not uniquely extravagant by royal standard. Alas it backfired horribly and her name was tainted.

As she grew older she abandoned fancy clothes for more modest one (and then she was criticized for triggering the fall of French fabric industry, the slander just never stop). She tried to promote a simpler lifestyle but it was seen as too little too late (yes, hameau de la reine was supoosedly also an attempt to that). She also does charity a lot but she also believed in absolute monarchy.

For louis, he also believed in absolute monarchy so there was a fault structurally in their concept. However he is the more reformative king compared to his predecessor. Some sources even say that the people actually liked Louis XVI most of the time but at that time of crisis the king failed to mitigate an actual solution. The time of crisis is their economy failure mostly damaged by their support to American revolution (and the seven years' war against brittain). He tried to appease the public and the nobility but ended up being indicisive and at some point he crossed public hope by firing his finance minister, Necker. He miscalculated people's support of Necker and the horrible living condition his subject's in and it triggered the french revolution.

There were actually several people of the house of bourbon that survived french revolution. The key figures are Marie Thérèse, Louis XVIII (brother of Louis XVI), Charles X (youngest brother of Louis XVI) and Louis philippe. There were several more but they did not reappear in public.

The July revolution is what the "Liberty Leading the People" painting depicted (the one arcane refer with Jinx holding flag). It is to overthrow King Charles X who was trying to revive the House of Bourbon. He sees French revolution as a mistake. He was then overthrow by the public and the bourgeoisie aka the people of high standing (and liberal nobles, Lafayette and Orléans made a return here).

I've seen comparison between Arcane and Les Misérable.

I mean, look at Isha and Gavroche:

The story in Victor Hugo's book is set up during the The June rebellion. This is the revolution in which the liberal nobles did not support (because it's republican reformation and lafayette was still a monarchist) and this time this is against the Burgeoisie. The rebellion is against Louis Phillipe who before was in support of July revolution but his regime become conservative and repressive especially after uprisings (he is on the side of the burgeoisie's interest mostly). This uprising is a failed revolution.

In my opinion none of the revolution really parallel how the situation is in Arcane. Maybe motivation wise it's the French revolution but structural wise it's the June rebellion? Narratively I think it's June rebellion even though there was no geographic separation and the state oppression in arcane is direct wheras in Louis' Philipe regime it's more indirect (neglect). Also the June rebellion is more about wanting a republic and not another monarch while in Arcane Zaun literally are just trying to survive.

not to be insufferable about arcane again, but for all my complaining, i do think caitlyn could've had a really good arc, the writing was just weak

now, before i say anything, please stay with me + give this a shot

we go back to the french revolution (i know, i promise this is relevant): louis xvi and his wife, marie antoinette, are ruling monarchs of france. their lower-class subjects are living in truly vile conditions. they are parents, some records go as far as to suggest that they were caring parents, and the queen, specifically, loved her children dearly. their subjects still starved, though.

alas, the people finally snap; they can't do this anymore. when the people shall have nothing more to eat, they will eat the rich. so, revolution comes, and the monarchs are killed, violence floods the streets, only one child survives.

told from their perspective? brutal, violent, tragic. told from the people's perspective? brutal, violent, liberating.

no one in this day and age will argue with me that the french revolution was a bad or unnecessary thing, no matter how much it may have sucked for the royal family.

however, this story isn't about louis xvi or marie antoinette or their three dead children or even their one surviving daughter. this story is about caitlyn kiramman, a fictional character that you can relate to and sympathize with precisely because she is fictional and you, as a viewer, are attached to her in some very real, human capacity that is both lacking and irrelevant in real historical discussions about the french revolution of all things

still, this is the same situation. and before ANYONE tries to argue with me, i'd like to point out there is a direct reference to the french revolution equating jinx to liberty guiding the people which i'm still mad about so it works perfectly for this analysis

now caitlyn's arc could've gone one of two ways, and i'm upset because they were fence sitting and didn't go either:

1.- we accept caitlyn becomes unethical. period. it's okay for a character to do despicable things and have us still like them, it's okay for them to be morally gray. but that's not what we see in arcane: instead, her actions are brushed over, and immediately forgiven in a way that doesn't make sense for the in-universe characters simply because she defeated some "big bad" at the end so she isn't the true villain

narratively, she's treated as a hero while she does not embody traditional heroic ideals. the difference between heroes and anti heroes is not whether if we should like and root for them, it's their motivations, methods, and morals. caitlyn doesn't work as a narrative hero and the story shouldn't treat her as such (this is ignoring how rushed her arc was absolutely every moment she was on screen)

caitlyn can be an anti-hero, she can have a corruption arc. she can have revenge, she can embody corrupt systems and still be sympathetic, but there is a narrative dissonance between her actions and her consequences/perception

2.- caitlyn is pushed even further towards her desire to heal the cities. caitlyn becomes radical in her hope and utilizes her power to be better than her mother, to work towards a kinder, juster world in her understanding that the loss of her mother was due to her own oppression.

she could try to mitigate that oppression to avoid future tragedy, think about zaunite kids who've also brutally lost their parents much younger (ie- her girlfriend), she could become an in-system revolutionary and use the political power she holds to do good

then she'd be a hero: tragedy would push her towards the opposite direction, and the way she's treated and perceived narratively would align with her plot and actions, but that didn't happen. hence people finding the whole thing infuriating

now, you may say but that's unrealistic! i mean, sure, you can think so but hope is essentially a revolutionary act and to push to heal the systems that hurt you instead of further push down the people who tried to fight for their own rights is inherently more heroic than a corruption arc

and to make myself so clear: i DON'T mind gray morality, or corruption arcs. the problem was it was horribly written.

my point is: from caitlyn's perspective what happened to her mother was a brutal, criminal act of violence and tragedy. from zaun's perspective? it was a brutal act of violence and hope

just as the french revolution wasn't about marie thérese charlotte, the bombing of piltover's council wasn't about caitlyn kiramman's feelings. she was morally wrong, and from a narrative perspective that's okay because the story as a whole is about her but please stop pretending otherwise

[collectivephilosopher]

caitlyn kiramman you had so much fucking potential.

i mean what happened to deconstructing the tools, motives, and mechanisms of the fascist piltoverian regime? what happened to all the buildup in s1 pointing toward a caitlyn kiramman dictator arc? caitlyn doesn't NEED to be a good person to be a great character; in fact i think i would have liked her so much better if we actually got to SEE the consequences of her actions.

but s2 completely ignores the the class commentary of s1 because caitvi getting back together with little to no deeper inquiry into the power imbalance and class politics inherent to the relationship is basically good writing, right? fucking in a jail cell is basically good writing, right?

AUGHHHH *gets shot and dies*

[collectivephilosopher]

To add to this, the trope "suicidal character finding peace by sacrificing themselves" is something that has been seen before. While i'm not sure how common and overused it is, it's certainly something that I often hear coming up again in different show and media. And while I think it can be done good, I think a lot of it were a miss because it's often portrayed as a middle ground between the narrative and the character's mental state. To "empower" their death which before was their undoing.

"I get to do good and I get to die"

Win win.

In Arcane's case, this is certainly a miss because we didn't get the moment where we were for certain Jinx isn't suicidal anymore. Or Jinx realized she wanted to live. Like for example a before death speech from Jinx to Vi about Jinx's regret and her desire and her wish would convey this (somewhat).

For the "Arcane is tragedy" argument. First, the show was presented as Jinx now get to use her death which she has longed for to save her sister. There is an "empowering" underlining in Jinx's sacrifice. Second, I don't think Arcane season 2 was a good tragedy in general. It lacks the cause and effect of a tragic story.

For example, the ending of S1 finalle happened because of a series of event leading to that ending. Jinx ending up setting that entire family dinner was because she couldn't overcome her fatal flaws. she wished to be accepted and loved for who she is, she has trust issues, she believed true royalty is absolute royalty, etc. While external factors played in the making of Jinx, the ending where Silco died happened because Jinx is her own undoing. This is called Hamartia. A fundamental flaw in a character that made their life a tragic story.

Jinx's sacrifice in S2 lacked this factor (not helping Vi's story ends on a lighter note than someone like Ekko). What's Jinx's established hamartia in the first act for example? The ones I can think of is that she lacks self preservation and she doesn't want to take responsibility of her action (the leading Zaun thing). At S2E9, Jinx already leading Zaun into the war so she has overcome the second flaw. So it left us with the first flaw that is she's suicidal.

Like I said earlier we don't really know if she is no longer suicidal because the show never shows it. So did Jinx sacrificed herself because she's suicidal? This is unlikely the main reason because she sacrificed herself for Vi. But maybe we can go with the win win scenario I gave earlier. This is what irks people. The show tries to justify Jinx's non immidiate suicide by sacrifice.

And aside from that Jinx's main reason to sacrifice herself was not her hamartia. That already breaks her story out of the tragic ending circle. You can't write a torture p*rn and call it tragedy. "Bad things happened because this is tragedy"

And then we look at Jayce and Viktor and while I think it's probably just coincidence, it does raise some eyebrows.

But as silverlining, I don't think the writer realized the implication and the breakdown I just gave you.

There are a lot of Arcane critical points I agree with, but there's also at least one I don't understand

It's the whole "Arcane killings/making kill themselves characters who were suicidal at any point (Jinx, Jayce and Viktor) is wrong/bad"

This statement is so common and usually even ignores the fact that Jinx didn't die, but just escaped and started a new life, but I don't understand what exactly is the problem. Like yeah, it is definitely sad and unhappy when characters die, especially those who wanted to die (and as a Jayce fan I hated that they killed him anyway), but I don't get why them being suicidal before makes it worse. I mean, mb it would sound bad, but like, a lot of suicidal people do in fact kill themselves. It is horrible and it is tragic, but it is also realistic and makes sense logically. I would say it doesn't even go against the characters and their development, at least as much as s2 can afford it.

Yeah, sure, it doesn't give real suicidal people "hope", but the thing with tragedy is that it never suppose to do anyone hope, it supposes to show how bad and irrevocably things can be. And at this point, if s2 writing (of these characters specifically) was done better and these three killing themselves was shown better, I would have zero problems with it.

So if anything, I understand why fans are complaining about their deaths being done poorly written, but I do not understand the problem of it in general, cuz Arcane never tried to be an optimistic show that shows people that everything will be good. In fact, it was always showing us the brutal reality and the world as cruel as it was, without trying to make things look better than they really are (specifically s1 cuz we know how bad s2 was at showing anything)

At this point, I would love someone to explain me why exactly they think it was a bad decision

(Btw, I love it more when the characters who killed themselves haven't suicidal attempts before so them doing this is seems unexpected, while it still makes sense, sadly probably the only examples I can recall are from classical literature like "The lower depths", "The storm", "Poor Liza" and etc, but it doesn't change much)

[collectivephilosopher]

Cassandra building the vents isn’t something that makes her iconic or amazing and one of the kind.

Omg thank you queen for providing basic human rights !!! Letting the people breathe !

That’s her job as councillor literally! When you’re a governmental it’s your job to take care of the citizens of said government.

Okay it’s a good thing better than the others but still that’s basic decency and the bare minimum.

Human rights is not a privilege.

[collectivephilosopher]

1. "Forget how gas works, this isn't reality."

2. Vi would definitely have a normal independent life with independent job at the end of the series even though the show never showed that and instead implies Vi now is Caitlyn's trophy wife. And thinking otherwise is disingenous.

3. Caitlyn has apologized to Vi in prison cell because microexpression said so. Caitlyn felt bad for hitting Vi in S2E3 because microexpression said so.

4. Jinx psychosis disappear in S2 is good because her mental illness is for narrative purpose only.

5. Caitlyn suck the grey back to the vent so she's not constantly poisoning Zaun.

6. The show is called arcane so it should be about arcane not Piltover vs Zaun. It's people's fault for expecting otherwise. (Followed with) -> Critical fans just want marvel.

7. People should respect Jinx's wishes to not be stopped (from killing herself). Jinx is an adult and it's her own choice.

8. From the very start hextech is a black and white problem, it's critical fans' fault for thinking it's a gray story.

9. Zaun deserved to be gassed because they betrayed Vi and sided with Silco. Vi shouldn't feel bad for her people.

10. It was ambessa's fault. Ambessa did all the police brutality, ambessa manipulated caitlyn, caitlyn tried to stop ambessa, caitlyn never was in on the brutality happening during the martial law.

(Lmao this one is— like pick one, did ambessa manipulated caitlyn into oppressing zaun or did caitlyn did nothing and ambessa did all the work???)

What’s the worst arguments you’ve heard from a fan for criticising something?

Reply in the comments or reblog

I’ll go first , when I said Vi has jail cell trauma and her having an intimate scene in a jail cell is weird, how being locked in should trigger something and its kind of shown for 5 secs after jinx left her in the cell hence punching the walls ,even Vi herself says that she spent many nights on the cold floor bloody and hungry in Stillwater that’s how bad Stillwater was it’s a very bad jail.

Someone responded saying well Vi talks to enforcers just fine so she’s over that trauma , she only complained about the guards and the food AND there are people who come out of jail and become police officers so it’s not that big of a deal plus she’s a boxer so her punching the walls is normal.

[collectivephilosopher]

I actually agree. Although I dont think it's "smiling softly". that smile is more of knowing smirk. A silent mutual understanding of, "remember this?". I really really like the idea of "nemesis for years you know each others better than anyone". Like while it doesn't open for a chance for them to be canon couple, it does open for a chance for them to team up together. They're freaky, I love it. I kinda hate how normal the AU powder ekko couple is.

ok im not the biggest timebomber but i dont think its fair to say it came out of nowhere. Like there was kind of a setup for it in s1, during the bridge fight when they took a break from killing each other to softly smile at each other :’)… and then Jinx tried to kill them both but i digress lol. The point is that Ekko smiled at her knowing full well that she was working for Silco

That said, while I do kind of get what they were trying to do with the whole alternate universe thing it was just such a lazy way to do it. A big theme surrounding Ekko and Jinx is that they are both teenagers who were forced to live in unlivable conditions preventing them from experiencing an actual childhood. And I guess with the AU they were trying to show us that with the contrast of how they live in the MU and in a universe where Zaun is free and livable. Still it really pales in comparison to the way they did it in s1. Ekko and Jinx trying to kill each other with little snippets of them playing as kids. Like it just hits you like a punch in the gut, fast and simple but the pain lingers 😭😭 I personally didnt get that feeling in the AU episode I feel like they just didn’t know what to do with Ekko

[collectivephilosopher]

Zani is what Vi could've been

[collectivephilosopher]

Vi and the final nail in the coffin of her sisterhood with Jinx

Much has been discussed about the controversial decision of Vi giving up on Jinx and becoming an enforcer in season 2.

I realized, upon deciding I would like to do my own season 2 "rewrite", that it was going to be important for me to strip back the layers of what Vi's real motivations are (as set up in season 1), why she would consider her sister "dead" and what should have been her driving goal going into season 2.

Vi's main motivation should ALWAYS be her sister, whether out of love or out of hate, and whether she would admit this to herself or not. That's the only way to stay true to the story and themes set up in season 1. I don't believe the writers of season 2 had a good handle on this.

So here's the big question: Why was the final scene of s1 (Jinx's mad tea party/rocket launch party) also the final nail in the coffin for Vi and her relationship with her sister?

[Note: These are thoughts I developed before s2 aired but I did know that Vi was most likely going to become an enforcer, and I will be addressing this question in regards to what season 1 set up, (not the motivations that we must haphazardly guess at based on what the writers of season 2 gave us). I want to get these thoughts down on paper in preparation for my own rewrite of s2.]

Let's explore some possible answers:

The reason can't be that she is upset over the actual act of launching a rocket on the council. She doesn't like the council or Piltover, to put it mildly.

Is it just the wanton destruction that bothers her? Vi has already seen this behavior from Jinx, and while each time it pushes her farther down the path of "my sister is gone," since this attack is, again, against Piltover, it falls a little flat that THIS one would be the last straw, even though it's the biggest in scale.

Could it all be for Caitlyn because of the the death of her mother? I think this could be part of her motivation, however while Caitlyn has made an impact on her for the short time they've known each other it's still been only a VERY short time. Not enough for her to go back on her lifelong dedication to her sister. (Yet this appears to be the only consistent explanation for Vi's actions in season 2 which just doesn't work based on what season 1 set up).

I believe there is a deep personal reason for this scene to break Vi's dedication to Powder. Vi's last interaction with Powder was to hurt her physically and even worse to confirm all Powder's worst fears about herself (when before she was always the one to keep these fears at bay). Vi became a monster to her little sister. This is indirectly explained in the scene where she tells Caitlyn about their childhood monster game (the "real monster" could apply to four different people in the scene).

Next, Vi is taken to prison. She states that the only thing that kept her going was the idea that she could get out and find Powder again, presumably to make everything right again, to live up to Vander's dying request, to reverse the moment where she became her little sister's worst nightmare.

However, prison ends up being the place where she descends into the monster again and again. The show addresses the fact that she is regularly beaten by the guards but barely touches on what is found in Vi's prison log in the Council Archives minigame, that she regularly fights with and beats her fellow prisoners in some cases beating them nearly to death. It's definitely possible that some of these people deserved it but at the same time it points to a troubling pattern of Vi allowing herself to sink to these extremes, drowning her pain in violence.

"If only I can get back to Powder I can make things right. This monster that takes over sometimes, it isn't really ME. I have a good heart, I'll prove it once I'm out of here, once I find her."

Violet's quest to save her sister is as much about her own sense of self-worth as it is about Powder.

That's the key to the final sequence. That's why the tea party, followed by the rocket attack, was what broke their sisterhood. After everything Vi tried to do for her, JINX rejects VI. Jinx can see the truth, that they can never go back, and snatches away Vi's shot at redemption and the foundation of her self-worth. Just as the old Vi whom Powder used to rely on is forever changed, the innocent little girl that Vi relied on to still need her is gone. Vi needed Powder to save her from her own inner monster. And Jinx walked away. In many ways these final moments are a parallel to Vi's "Because you're a jinx" to Powder years before. 

And this should have served as a foundation for the next chapter in their story, one where they are enemies.

[collectivephilosopher]

I'm really confused why Ambessa had so much power in S2. Like for example when she promote Caitlyn as a commander over Salo. That was kind of weird, wasn't it? Salo is a councilor. He's one of the leader of Piltover. How did Ambessa, someone not even a legitimate resident of Piltover aka a GUEST was able to overrule a council member?

It would make much more sense if she stayed puppeteering in the background. Like for example. Mel is one of the greatest power in the council. Other council member seem to look at her first before voting. But Mel doesn't align with Ambessa's ideology (the fox and the wolf thing) so she turned to the second most influential figure in the council which is Jayce and then Jayce promoted Caitlyn with Ambessa's suggestion. It makes more sense because Jayce is a council member and he's close with Caitlyn. And this will solve the problem with Jayce's weird sudden switch from not wanting to use hextech weapon to making hextech weapon because Ambessa wants Jayce to produce hextech weapon so this will align with her final goal.

Something about Jayce having all these interesting interactions and relationships with different characters in season one (Mel, Caitlyn, Silco, Vi, Heimmerdinger, Ambessa, his mom), to having his entire character centered around Viktor in season two kills me.

We got him interacting with Ekko, and it was much more interesting and was such a break from his dynamic with Viktor; I thought they were gonna do something with it, but nothing happened. I feel robbed of the big brother, little brother dynamic they would've had.

It would've been nice to see a different type of brotherly relationship than the one he had with Viktor.

We would've seen another side of Jayce and Ekko.

[collectivephilosopher]

So Vi was trying to keep both Cait and Jinx in her life. If you watch it closely, she only opens the door after Jinx said "sure Vi". I think what is happening—considering Vi beats herself up over how Caitlyn is going to leave her after Jinx left—is that Vi thinks Jinx is supposed to be jailed but she wants Jinx in her life and she also thinks Jinx has changed for the better (the thing she told Caitlyn before) so my guess is that she's going to use "Jinx said she wants to help" as an excuse to Caitlyn to excuse Vi breaking Jinx out of prison.

Another beautiful day of hating the CaitVi sex scene because genuinely what the fuck was that 😃

I didn't process it at first because I watched it with friends and we were too busy thirsting over everyone that came on screen and dying laughing at stupid jokes we made to actually take any of it in. But after really pondering on the events of season two I was like wait a minute...that was pretty weird...

In the moment, I was kinda happy because yay lesbians! And also, this is the scene people have been waiting years for! Wow! But also, most of Vi's trauma surrounds jail and being locked away, so why would she enthusiastically have sex in a jail cell??? That's so fucking weird to me like I don't think I'll ever get over that. Not to mention the fact that Jinx, her last remaining family member, had just locked her in the cell so she could "break the cycle" and Vi wouldn't be able to stop her, the same way Vander had once locked her away to prevent her from taking the fall for the explosion in season one. Vi had to have been freaking out, being locked in like that again. But minutes later she was eating Caitlyn out and I think that was a really weird choice on the writer's part.

Not only that, but why'd they have to do it in the cell that Jinx was suffering in, the same cell where she picked the skin around her nails until they dripped blood and the same place she let her food rot. The same place she was literally contemplating taking her life in like wtf. If the writers and animators and whatever REALLY couldn't put that scene anywhere else in the plot, it couldn't have cut to CaitVi in Caitlyn's bedroom or something?

That scene just felt so out of place and unnecessary, especially considering what had just happened!

Also, I really don't like how it seemed like Vi only went down there to get Jinx to help them fight or something. She said "if you come, help use all that explosive potential of yours for good, maybe we could rewrite your story like you did with Zaun". And that was cute, but I felt like she kind of acted as though Jinx hadn't just lost Isha and acted like they hadn't just lost their dad, again. That felt so out of character for Vi, because her whole character is the fact that she has a big heart, often to her own detriment. Yet there she was, asking Jinx to help them fight. She later said to Caitlyn "I really thought she'd help" like girl be fr. Jinx genuinely saw no point in living after that (note how the strings from her top were gone and how her hair was down, probably to prevent her from killing herself somehow) so why would she want to help fight?

That whole thing was just...mmm. I just didn't like that scene or the conversation(s) that led up to it at all. The tone change was too sudden for me and the context of that whole situation + when you take into account all of Vi's trauma was just so eugh. Felt wrong to me.

[collectivephilosopher]

FUCK IT!! IM SAYING THIS AGAIN BC TTHHHIISS

REMINDED ME OF SOMETHING!! i hate how s2 just took away jinx talking to her weapons bc it was set up SO perfectly for jinx’s main weapons to represent silco and isha

silco/fishbones:

-in arcane fishbones is built for silco and is fired for the first time after his death

-shark

-in the nerf gun promo for fishbones jinx says she likes fishbones weird glowy eye and jagged teeth

-when jinx talks to fishbones in league she puppeteers him to talk back, having him as a calm voice of reason attempting to reel her in and she’ll call him boring and no fun

isha/powpow:

-isha is compared to powder, the one time (iirc) that we hear the name powpow in arcane is when vi calls jinx that when they first reunite

-bunny ears

-as far as i know jinx doesn’t give a voice to powpow (the gun) bc it has no mouth to move so it. doesn’t speak. much like isha

-isha enjoys jinx’s chaos. like a lot. and dies with jinx’s gun in her hand

idk how id incorporate it into the show but i think it would’ve been interesting whenever jinx talks to her weapons she sees it like silco and isha are there but everyone else just sees her talking to her guns, she hears silcos voice while everyone just hears jinx doing a really bad silco impression. and isha would just. be there idk im not getting paid to write the show

[collectivephilosopher]

The text of behind-the-scenes writing has confirmed what I was suspecting was going to happen since watching season 1: the writers absolutely did not understand the Machine Herald.

Let’s skip the terrible implication of their words that disabled people who are missing parts of their body or use prosthetics somehow „lack humanity“; the writers show they were only viewing Viktor through the concept of transformation, no matter what that meant. They were convinced that all Viktor needed to do to become the „Herald“ he’s famous for, was to go through some as gruesome or eerie transformation as possible, stripping himself of emotions in the process.

Let me be clear that this is completely wrong.

Obsessively removing parts of one’s own body in order to upgrade more and more with tech is not a motivation on its own, it is a consequence of some deeper problem. It is a manifestation of something that is hidden in the mental level.

And while at first S1 might have gone the way of a disabled character getting „addicted“ to becoming more and more able-bodied and even transcending abilities of an average human body (which is still kind of an iffy take when framed as strictly negative), the subsequent degradation and complete digression of Viktor’s character arc with the transformation instead being forced on him in Season 2 by Jayce’s misguided attempt to save him, highlights that the writers did indeed hold the aforementioned idea of „eerie transformation“ as the top/core thing that makes Viktor the „Herald“, instead of his motivations for a transformation.

Even season 1’s possible idea was stopped in its tracks because at the end of s1, Viktor is written making a clear choice: hurting others for one’s own benefit is crossing the line, and he resigned to dying. He completed his arc.

This created a problem for season 2, as Viktor was written by s1 as effectively being too moral of a character to do a transformation. Enter the forced/brainwashing effect of magic on Viktor, a band-aid to force the plotline the writers wanted for him. Altering his mind and convincing him that the way to help others is to strip them of all agency and emotions.

No matter how many times the writers say they wanted Viktor to „make a mistake out of a genuine but misguided desire to help“, viewers continuously voice what they see, what the writing actually portrays – a lack of agency of the character. If text is badly written, it fails at conveying what it intended to.

~

Going back to the Machine Herald and what I said about self-augmentation (at least in his case as a fictional character) as just a symptom of a different problem, it’s even explicitly confirmed in Viktor’s accompanying release text:

„People deal with grief in many ways, and Viktor did it by replacing his body parts with robotic limbs.“

I’m honestly shocked that I have to copy-paste these things so often and that professional writers yet again missed the point.

The Machine Herald was a very layered character. The self-augmentation is just the top layer which makes him cool. The deeper levels are what makes him compelling.

He went into self-augmentation using his own technology as a way to propel himself again to the top of his profession, both in terms of cutting-edge achievements and in terms of recognition. He had an impression that nothing short of shocking and utterly bizzare would be able to beat his previous stolen achievement and cement him at the very top of Zaun’s scientific community. This is also supported by how theatrical his behaviour is as the Machine Herald, explains why he has vanity items like a cape and why his hair is still out. He felt betrayed by his own mind for cursing him in naivety, jealousy and depression for who knows how long. He also had issues with self-image, smashing his own face on a framed photo that showed him standing proudly next to Blitzcrank. He tried to distance himself from his previous identity of a vulnerable, very human and very empathetic student who wanted to better society by aiding in the waste reclamation process. Blitzcrank was made for cleaning Zaun – and who is idealist enough in such a self-serving city-state to attempt something like that. This he shares with Ekko, and Ekko is very clearly a hero.

Viktor’s moral ambiguity was not supposed to come from the narrative trying to obfuscate if „removing free will“ is a bad thing – because it is, it will always be an evil thing. This free will point didn’t exist in his release lore, it’s entirely the addition of 2016. Universe bio. I also believe the story gets downgraded and loses its potency if it picks a side and makes Viktor „slide into villainy“ by „completely losing his humanity.“ His ambiguity originally came precisely from how his actions towards his own body make the readers feel. It was entirely up to the readers themselves to decide whether they saw self-augmentation as cool and badass, or as unjustified self-mutilation. It’s a type of interplay between the story and its readers. A character within the story itself, Jayce, made up his mind and held the opinion that it was not a good thing.

Viktor is a „mad scientist“ and although this trope can be very reductive, it also carries some truths. Viktor went mad. His self-augmentation was never going to be justified by sensible, lucid motives, but that doesn’t mean he didn’t have reasons. He was in so much pain and felt trapped, and yet despite that he found a way to build himself back up again piece by piece, and undergo such a tremendous transformation entirely relying on personal ingenuity and resilience. The key difference between his inside perspective and our (and other characters’) outer perspective, is that his reasons and pain are of mental nature which makes them way more hidden to us.

His story can develop in the direction „backwards“, him integrating back into society to an extent while maintaining this dislocated perspective of infinite self-upgrades, infinite scientific achievement – because he’s shown it already! He wants and has a need to interact with others! His acolytes, him trying to ally with other researchers, the need for recognition. Another thing awaiting the Machine Herald is reality’s cold shower that one genius still can’t solve systemic problems, and the question what he will do once his technology inevitably gets abused, but this time finally carrying his name.

And I believe all these layers are infinitely more interesting than an unfortunate story of a man who gets turned into a manipulated creature of limitless magical power who doesn’t even have control over his own decisions.