conclavebrainrot

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Why do we keep trying to kill Vincent on ao3

We’re wearing tf out that Assassination Attempt(s) tag. It’s about to be a conclave fic trademark lollll

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If Vincent can be seen as the lamb of God sent to the slaughter (the conclave)

And Tedesco is often portrayed as a butcher (rough manners and right body apparently)

Then it's time for Tedesco to go vegan I guess

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Tedesco makes Bellini so stressed that were he not bald already he would be well on his way

Bonus thought: Tedesco made the Old Pope so stressed he passed on (and in his head he was like "oh my bad...anyway")

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Not even joking, this movie has altered my brain chemistry (my adhd ass is getting so much dopamine it's a drug)

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me watching Conclave again and someone interrupts me

"not now love, I'm watching my favourite gay telenovela"

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How it felt when Sister Agnes threw Trembley under the metaphorical bus in front of all the other cardinals since Thomas will not and can not as a neutral party:

“Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone"

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I've been having thoughts on this damn movie so I'm making this everyone problem.

So, we know that cardinals wear red and that it symbolises martyrdom, sacrifice and the spillage of blood that is required of cardinals in case they have to die for their beliefs.

The church requires unconditional dedication, during the imposition of the biretta when they are made cardinals the pope says "usque ad sanguinis effusionem" (to the shedding of blood), he's literally telling them that if it ever comes down to it they will and must die for the church, a grave reminder of the responsibility they are accepting.

Now bear with me, but who wears the most red in the entirety of this movie? Cardinal Goffredo Tedesco. Now, I know that the producers and Harris probably didn't have anything of the sort in mind, but I love to headcanon that Tedesco is one of the few that really are prepared for that sacrifice and he chose to demonstrate by wearing so much red.

He's still an horrible person and a fascist that makes it hard for anyone that stands against (and possibly with) him to like him but this doesn't go against the fact that he never does anything to put the church in a bad spot like Adeyemi and Trembley, his attacks are literally under the light of the sun for everyone to see and always directed towards people and what they stand for, not the church itself that in his mind is more like Christ's body being desecrated, a victim of sort.

I like to think that he wears all that red because he really thinks that he's sacrificing all that he is and that he could have had for the betterment of the church, because in my opinion he has no real friends even amongst the conservatives, just acquaintances and lackeys.

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something that really stood out to me in the conclave book is how much tedesco and benitez are meant to be foils. it is like continuously narratively repeated and reinforced how much these two have similar backgrounds and similar circumstances but entirely different approaches to responding to those circumstances they had growing up. and like okay these tags by @tenok on my other post sum it up so well

and jumping off from here like there's so much more to it. why are benitez and tedesco both specifically listed in the bank statements as having the least amounts of money? benitez wouldnt be able to access a bank account in his circumstances, but tedesco seems to be spending money as fast as he acquires it. and so theyre both in the same circumstance once again, yet entirely different outlooks on it. they both make me crazy i love their narrative parallelism of similar impoverished backgrounds and entirely different responses to it.

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Favourite Sergio quotes on Tedesco

from this interview

Behind Tedesco's uniform there is an ambitious man who believes he is the right person to bring the Church to the truth.

While shooting the film I discovered that the cardinals' red is a symbol of blood and martyrdom, it means being ready to give your life for the faith. I thought of playing Tedesco by tearing up that uniform. This surprising Italian came out compared to a certain hieraticism that you expect from a figure like his: he smokes, he has an intellectual roughness even if lucid, his own sensuality. I don't agree with a word of what he says but woe betide anyone who touches him

The most coherent, the least ambiguous, the most attackable. He is convinced that the mass should be said in Latin, this soldier of Christ who became a cardinal does it to preserve the memory of his youth. The charm of the negotiation lies in the fact that the Church is spirituality and politics. All the characters in the film at least for a moment want to be popes, he is the most coherent or perhaps the most obtuse.

In Conclave there is a final scene that I love: when Cardinal Lawrence after the new Pope is elected, he finally opens the windows of his room to let in fresh air, he looks down into the courtyard and from a door three young nuns who laugh in. Here, I dream of seeing those three young women laughing.

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conclave the book loves its parallels here i'll outline my favorites

tedesco - benitez: complete opposition but generally the same destitute background, framed by the fact tedesco stayed within his western country so close to the church, while benitez works hands on around the world and constantly moved, starting from a country half a world away from the vatican.

bellini - lomeli - tedesco: italians 4 pope trio. tedesco being italian is weird in my opinion because he exemplifies much more of a USAmerican form of catholicism, much like the cardinal he's based on irl (Burke). my assumption is that he was made to be an italian to oppose bellini as the italian leading the liberal faction's votes. lomeli is a centrist... okay not exactly a centrist but a middle ground in ways the other two aren't. all three italian candidates are much more heavily involved in the meat and potatoes of politick however, which i do not think is a coincidence.

benitez - tremblay - adeyemi: foreigners 4 pope trio. made to parallel the italians 4 pope. tremblay is the complete opposite of lomeli in this triad as well. we know little to nothing about who tremblay is in a political sense. all three of the foreigners really we know very little of their political stances beyond benitez's service in active warzones and stating he is progressive, and then adeyemi we know is homophobic and a conservative reactionary, but little beyond that in terms of policy. its interesting.

tremblay - sister agnes: complete neutrality until theyre forced to meet. in which case french on french (canadian) violence. there's something there with tremblay depicting himself as the ultimate middle ground with being like an american to get votes without having to be american, can communicate in french without the drawback of being french, he's french canadian. agnes is explicitly descended from french aristocracy that died in the french revolution. these two are definitely meant to be thematic parallels in some way because of this but i cannottt put my exact finger on what. regardless i do think tremblay is a very comedic character in the book because of how lomeli perceives him - lomeli is an out of touch 78 year old italian man. does he... know the way french canadians are perceived in a global scale?

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conclave the book is like so specifically written too like ... its so crazy. bellini's line about "families having 10 children because mama and papa didn't know any better" & "standing for everything tedesco does not" is like only a few pages apart from the reveal of tedesco's backstory being that he's the youngest of 12 kids and grew up destitutely poor from that (& still eats like he's terrified someone might steal his food). like ohh... tedesco is a product of his environment and the paradigm of the traditional values failing people & still trying to force those values on people despite knowing the firsthand experience of the way it sucks. crab in a bucket style.

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actually obsessed with benitesco because benitesco has the potential of completely destroying what tedesco's view of the church itself is. i get that it's not such a popular ship in the fandom but it has so much potential its amazing. all this is coming from the point of view of someone who was born catholic, strayed from it, and is now catholic again.

i can completely imagine how tedesco's views start to sway from the moment benitez turns into innocentus. how could a man nobody knew of, who's alignment between liberal and conservative be so unknown, win the papacy? how could this random guy from kabul suddenly show up and win?????? it's ridiculous for tedesco.

innocentus, on the other hand, can understand why tedesco is so upset. he knows tedesco isnt upset because of his loss (maybe a little bit), but he also knows tedesco must be so confused with the outcome. after all, it never occured to innocentus that he could end up as pope.

i can see tedesco looking around, searching for some dirt on innocentus, but not being able to find any. a missionary, founder of a hospital, soft spoken, kind, nice, pretty-looking, everything tedesco isnt? what was he, some kind of saint?

one day, tedesco would schedule a meeting, and out of desperation, confess what hed been doing. he would confess how he's been praying for some dirt on innocentus, some sort of flaw that he could exploit.

innocentus, being himself, would trust tedesco. he would inform him of how he was born with ovaries, tried to resign once he found out, and how his predecessor didn't allow him to retire, but go forward and make him a cardinal. he knew tedesco wouldn't tell anyone.

because this sends tedesco spiraling. it baffles him, both the fact that the late pope allowed benitez to become a cardinal, and the fact that innocentus had such trust in the man he once deemed a rival. does he have no shame? no malice? is innocentus naive enough to trust tedesco, out of all people, with such an intimate secret? is he really so innocent?

tedesco's views spiral first. then his alignments. but never his faith.

this man had no focus on liberal nor conservative agendas. he could care less if the mass was done in latin, or spanish, or english, or italian. he wasnt focused on divorce, or abortion, or lgbt issues beyond what his faith commands of him. he was focused on feeding the poor, helping those marginalized communities.

this "innocentus" was a woke, socialist, open-border, peace-seeking, green technology, tree-hugging, good for nothing, liberal, intersex pope. that was his first impression.

but he couldn't help but see the face of Jesus in him. his actions, his words, his thoughts, his innocence. all Christ-like.

so he's like, maybe Christ doesnt care about politics. and when he thinks that, hes like "of course Christ doesnt care about politics!! hes literally Christ???"

tedesco sees so much of Christ in innocentus that it drives him crazy. after all, he is a man of faith. he seeks out more of innocentus, tries to get along with him, and so on. hes obsessed with innocentus.

they go from theological talks, to spiritual talks, to prayers together, to hugs, embraces here and there, the occasional kiss.

benitesco is my favorite dynamic in conclave.

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benitesco groundhog au where benitez is shot by a gunman in public right after he and tedesco have an unusually intense argument (probably over something like giving refugees Basic Rights). tedesco is right there when it happens and can only watch as the pope bleeds to death.

the gunman, as it turns out, is a strongly conservative catholic who believes that benitez will lead to the ruin of the vatican aka Everything Tedesco Has Been Preaching. not a great look for tedesco, who now has to shoulder the entire world's suspicions and whispers that he Wanted This (no he did not) and that he is Excited for the Next Conclave (okay maybe).

he finally falls into bed. it's been a long fucking day, and after his prayer for benitez's soul, he closes his eyes. goes to sleep.

only for it to be thursday. again.

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groundhog benitesco au still on my mind so loops #729 to 887 is just tedesco trying to kill himself in increasingly creative ways. at first it’s tragic and sad and he's like i'm sinning by committing suicide if i'm not in hell rn, i will be soon. by loop 820, he’s just like what if i kill myself... by walking on a tightrope. eating myself to death. getting really drunk in the bathtub off of wine and drowning in there. hm. flamethrower??

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think it would be funny if during one of the groundhog assassination loops, tedesco is shot/stabbed/etc instead of benitez and he’s just. Unphased. bc when you’ve died in every way imaginable for years on end, you tend to build a strong immunity to pain. tedesco is like yeah no biggie (he has a seven inch knife sticking out of him) and tries to walk it off.

cut to everyone with their jaws hanging open as benitez finally crashes out and drags tedesco’s bleeding ass back to the ambulance and is the angriest they’ve ever witnessed him be. bc dios mio wdym i’m fine, don’t worry about me, you have been stabbed, you cannot just walk it off, unless you have healing abilities i am unaware of, goffredo?

meanwhile teddy’s thoughts as they ride in the ambulance: he’s mad… but also he’s stroking my curls and holding my hand… wow this is nice i should do this Again

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Aldo Bellini and the prospect of the papacy, ambition, the moth of holiness...

I don’t think Aldo is necessarily full of shit about him not wanting it, far from it, actually. It takes him literally one evening, after the first round of voting, to admit to Thomas that yes, he already has a papal name chosen, understandably so, that he feels slighted. That the role meant to be his burden is suddenly drifting further out of reach, and that this makes him feel like a failure. Not because of any opposition, but because his friend, albeit unintentionally, has become the figure at the center of that shift. It's their faction that fractures first, and that must be terrifying. Especially knowing this was the same faction that, last time, managed to rally behind a single candidate, and yet his allies are not able to do so for him...

They all have ambition, that’s true. Every last one of them likely has a name picked out, that's not exactly bad assumption to have, that these man took the mantle and had this silent vision, a moment rehearsed in private, it's not a sin, that's why Aldo takes Thomas's pick with a smile later, not because he won an argument, but because he's relieved to know his friend enough to be right about him...

The weight and ambition probably comes with being the heir apparent. And not just because the newspapers crowned him that, his colleagues probably did, too, the public, the internet certainly did. That kind of expectation means scrutiny. It means personal attacks. And it can’t all be for nothing, can it? The months of feeling like shit, months of being aware of all the scheming behind the scenes, while he was busy to even think of himself. Being the heir apparent means the late pope likely made subtle efforts to ensure it looked as though Aldo was his intended successor. That creates its own trap, if the legacy doesn't continue through you, then it might not continue at all. In those final months, Aldo was the one defending the pope’s teachings, he was the one at the centre, standing up to Tedesco, increasingly isolated just like his late friend, and that, in retrospect, must have felt like a prelude. The Pope is the most isolated man in the world. It's a lonely life. A death sentence dressed as a white cassock. And he was close enough to feel this and still ready to accept the role if it came to that.

It’s not about ego either, not in the sense that he thought no one else could win. He never voted for himself. He didn’t dare, because he didn’t see himself as worthy. I don’t think he’s lying to Thomas at the start. Deep down, in his heart, he knows he shouldn’t be pope. In the book, he votes in the first round for someone with no real chance, someone he personally favors, then he votes for Lomeli, over and over, even at a point while he still stood a chance... till the last round unable to vote for the man of prayer, for Vincent, he probably believes in divine intervention, but he can’t convince himself that Vincent’s speech would be enough to move a curia that’s been immovable for years to him. So he votes for what seems like the rational choice, because to him, that’s all the Church knows how to accept.

That’s not a man driven by pride, that’s just someone disillusioned, someone who may have started as an idealist, wanting to be an instrument of grace, but who found himself a damned bureaucrat. Not because he wanted to be that, but because the institution slowly, quietly, made him one, he was just a pawn and this was the only way to remain in the game. He doesn’t want to be campaignin, doesn’t want to be center of it all, especially later after the report, when taking over as Dean would only damage Thomas's reputation as it would deem his actions wrong enough to step down, so he doesn't take over, even if that might have been a chance to win against Tedesco himself, it wouldn't be impossible, after all, what they needed from Tedesco was one outspoken speech to discredit himself and that was still coming.

At the start, he probably hoped the election would be smooth enough that he could avoid campaigning at all. But he still steps up, in private, out of duty, out of honor, presenting himself and his views as unmovable... And once again, he's already isolated from the rest of them by then.

That’s why he accepts Tremblay’s offer, if he does at all, if it was ever made. It's not like the same offer wasn't made to Lomeli by Adeyemi the day before. Not to climb or to cling to power, but because he wants to preserve a legacy. He doesn’t want to let his entire life’s work (and not only his) be swept aside by the wrong hands.

And yes, he’s personally against Tremblay. Against Adeyemi too. He says as much to Thomas. But he’s diplomatic with Sabbadin, with his faction. He knows how to speak the language of the curia, how to smile and say, 'tell in Milan to rejoice at the first African pope', even as he doubts the viability. He’s not naive, but he’s not bitter either. He still loves the Church, even when it wounds him...

And he won’t discredit his brothers publicly, not the way Thomas would. He is just different, believes in process, even if it's slow, even if it hurts, that does not make him a coward.

He probably never wanted to be Secretary of State either. He’s good at it, sure, but it wasn’t his calling. Thomas was meant for that role, a polyglot, charming, well liked by all factions, and if it weren’t for his illness, he’d still hold it. Just like later, Thomas becomes Dean when he shouldn’t. They’re both thrown into roles by misfortune and it ruins their chances to be truly papabile in a way, because they are simply both too miserable once the conclave starts.

Aldo’s job was probably hell, his boss and friend was dying, Thomas was dying and pushing him away. The two of them are trapped by circumstance.

He became cold and unfeeling to the world, an austere intellectual, a calculated mind, because someone had to... Because he had to be the representative, the diplomat, the head of state. All so the late Pope’s legacy wouldn’t be tainted by the weight of his personal choices, just carried by his servitude, he made himself the shield, so the papacy wouldn't bleed.

And yes, he felt ambition. Which one of them didn’t?

It's not like Vincent had never felt a flicker of ambition in his life, that’s just bullshit. Let’s be honest, men like him don’t end up on terrorist hit lists by accident. He stood out, made himself visible, traveled into danger, sought out suffering, showed up wherever he believed he was needed. And he didn’t just stop there either, he climbed. Not for the sake of power, but because rising meant reach, the higher he got, the more he could do. If he were truly without ambition, he would’ve stayed in some quiet parish in Mexico, lived and died there, and let the world burn around him. But he didn’t. He went up, he went forward, he chose to. And that is ambition, just of the holy kind.

It’s not that their impressions of each other are wrong... Vincent is charming, and naive in his own idealistic way. Aldo is brilliant, brilliant and tightly wound, neurotic in that way only men burdened by both conscience and control tend to be. But the point is, they aren’t two-dimensional, they don’t stay fixed in those first impressions, they don't have to. Thomas sees Aldo grieve, really grieve, not campaign like Joshua and Joe do, right from their first scene together. He sees the weight behind the precision, the tenderness buried under protocol.

And Vincent? Vincent comes in sharp, arrogant, even. He calls Aldo out, brazenly on his bullshit, during their first encounter. But later, he admits to Lomeli that Aldo was indeed right. He reflects. He evolves. He admits coming to Rome might have been a mistake and sees his return home might truly not be possible. That’s the thing, they all shift. They challenge each other, bruise each other, but also grow toward each other. And that’s what makes it worth watching, and rewatching, reading, and rereading.

Thomas was able to vote for himself to stop Tedesco, something Aldo couldn't even while having so many more viable reasons for it, he’s in check with himself, he’s self-aware enough to admit his failings, in real time, within days too, while Thomas is still breaking down over it and having crashouts, which also, fair.

Aldo has ambitions, sure. But he’s not a villain. He’s a resigned man. He’s tired.

I think Thomas’s and Aldo’s arcs are inverse reflections.

Thomas lost faith in God, but not in the Church, and that’s killing him, he was popular enough to be elected dean and yet he is forgotten, called as the last (out of Tremblay's ambition but he doesn't know that) because he treats the institution like a 9-to-5 job, even as it breaks him.

Aldo, on the other hand, has lost faith in the Church, and shares this with Thomas, shares it in a way that hopes Thomas will take it to heart, via pope's own doubts, having lost faith in the church, but not in God. So he tries to follow the teachings, tries to love his brothers, wants to believe that God will choose the right man.

And perhaps that is the holiest thing about him, that he knew, deeply, he should not be pope, and still nearly let himself become one.

He want to believe that the Spirit still moves, and once it happens he's not blind to see it, he just doesn't have the courage to believe it may for once work in their favour.

They both need Vincent, not just to restore faith, but to bridge what they’ve lost in each other, and they need to talk. Which they do, throughout the film, in every glance, every quiet consultation. That’s why they seek each other’s gaze in every room. That’s why they’re friends. That’s why the dynamic is so compelling. The film cut so many important scenes between them, scenes with Aldo and Vincent too, and still it did them justice. That’s what frustrates me. There was so much more to tell. But what we have is enough and people are still mistranslating it so poorly.

And another thing, my hc, Aldo must be incredibly good at chess. Who else sees eight moves ahead, watches his opponent play them out, and lets himself lose? It’s like that with Vincent. Aldo saw the late pope’s endgame. He tried, briefly, to stop it. But he never told Thomas what to do expressively, while he probably had that power to change his friend's mind he did not do so, trying to protect him but still letting him choose his own faith. He just gave his opinion, and then stood back and let the eight moves play out. Because maybe, just maybe, letting it all fall apart one more time was the only way to preserve what mattered, even if it cost him.

I used to think the pope’s machinations were designed to replace Aldo. That somewhere along the way, he got spooked, maybe paranoid, disappointed, and realized that his chosen heir wasn’t the right fit after all. That Aldo, for all his loyalty and brilliance, was too entangled, too compromised, too close to the fire to get burnt. And then he got to meet Vincent, bright, principled, untouched by curial rot, doubting himself but never God... Brave in ways Aldo no longer could be or was even forced not to be by the pope himself... And maybe the pope thought, this is the man who could carry it forward cleanly. So he let his mentee fall.

But now… I’m not so sure.

Maybe it wasn’t about replacing Aldo at all. Maybe it was about freeing them both. Maybe the pope looked at the two of them, at Aldo, crumbling beneath the weight of service, and at Thomas, burning out in quiet despair of not being comfortable with himself and his role, and thought, no more of this. Maybe he wanted them to live without that isolation, without the martyrdom, side by side, as equals. Not one on the throne and the other in the shadows, not one sentenced to solitude and the other left behind to wither.

This way, they can still serve. Still carry the legacy. But share the burden. Fifty-fifty. For the Church. For God. For each other. For Vincent...

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sabballini to me is like

at first a contrast to lawrellini. lawmelis love for aldo simultaneously exhilarating but also is a weighty precious thing that he's sometimes scared to hold. giulios love is a more grounded, concrete thing. aldo holds no fear that giulio will discover who he really is (a shameful, pitiful creature) and judge him as a fuck up. giulio is a politicians son. he is a known cynic. he has seen greed, he has seen corruption, the ambitions in all its twisted forms. he has seen the worst and is probably used to the stains in peoples souls

but giulio had seen his weaknesses and limits and decides he's still Worthy. giulio loves so him easily it almost feels like indulgence basking in it. giulio doesn't even look at his inadequacies though. he just thinks aldos good qualities eclipses those easily. giulio genuinely admires aldo but lets him have the breathing space to be a human.

also love how distance does not matter to them. seperated by circumstances but they will take the time and effort to see each other. will dig a tunnel between milan and rome if they have to.

not to say that giulio is just content with whatever they have rn oh no. he has big plans for them both.

and i love how giulio knows and works around aldos personality. he knows aldos cold and aloof so he takes the initiative to drag him out and make him sit down with others

aldo likes how giulio speaks in concrete plans and numbers and on what to do when he feels lost and about to have a breakdown.

idk if it was like. an intentional thing. or if ur even supposed to make the comparison but in the book aldo goes up into santa marta carrying a suitcase so full of books and papers it wont close. contrast to giulio who just walks around carrying a little black notebook. jotting down his thoughts and plans in a concise precise way. just. giulio having the patience to walk aldo through the chaos of his own mind.

giulio the politician and aldo the intellectual. in another life giulio would be the king and aldo the advisor but in the story its the reverse. the king is the one pushing the advisor to the throne.

just. sabballini man. one is a guard dog the other is a prized cow. nobody knows who's holding the leash