delphiniumpacificguinevere

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Gwenhwyfar, ferch Ogrfan Gawr

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You recently answered an ask where you said that Mordred's wife is only ever Gwenhwyfach or Guinevere, and Cwyllog is misinformation and I just wanted to let you know that Gwenhwyfach also isn't his wife in anything medieval either. A lot of people just speculated, since it's unknown how the sisterly feud in the triads led to Camlann, that Mordred and Gwenhwyfach were married. However I have yet to see anyone cite an actual source that isn't modern for it.

Hi!

When answering this ask, I adopted the spelling "Gwenhwyfach" used in the quote I included from A Welsh Classical Dictionary by Peter Clement Bartrum without even thinking "Duh, that's a totally different character." My bad. You're right! I don't recall that Gwenhwyfach (as opposed to Guinevere) is said to be married to Medrawt/Medrod/Mordred in any Medieval literature either. Let's investigate!

Under the section about Gwenhwyfach, Bartrum credits Lewis Morris with the claim that Gwenhwyfach was wife of Mordred.

So I've now gone ahead and found Celtic Remains by Lewis Morris to verify and it says this:

However on doing some more research, I think this is a case of mistaken identity. In Early Welsh Genealogical Tracts, also written by Peter Clement Bartrum, there are two Medrods.

First Medrod here is mentioned in a late edition of Bonedd y Saint (included in previously linked copy of EWGT) which posits that St. Dyfnog ap Medrawt ap Cawrdaf's mother is Gwenhvawc verch Ogvran gawr.

Evidentially from there, both Medrawts/Medrods were combined into a single entity; Gwenhvawc became conflated with Gwenhwyfach perhaps from their similar names and association with giants; Gwenhwyfach was then said to be Medrod's wife according to Lewis Morris based on his theories regarding the Welsh Triads. But Medrawt ap Cawrdaf is NOT the Medrod that caused the battle of Camlann. Medrod ap Llew, associated with Modredus son of Loth in Historia Regum Britanniae, is our king slayer.

Another case of some guys just... making shit up. It's always so much easier to perpetuate misinformation than it is to debunk it. Total clown shoes moment. Sorry for any confusion I may have caused! I can't be sure if this is exactly how it all went down, but that's my best guess based on the material available to me.

Thanks for catching that and letting me know! I'm always happy to research further and learn more. :^)

[delphiniumpacificguinevere]

(Source: Life of St. Paul Aurelian) (LINK)

Some scholars believe Gwythyr ap Greidawl may be based on this breton chieftain from the hagiography of St. Paul Aurelian, first bishop of the Holy See of Leon and Quimper. By extention, there's speculation to attach his daughter, Gwenhwyfar II to Brittany.

I have my doubts about that, especially since we are dealing a mythical figure involved with Gwyn ap Nudd. Also, King Mark cameo.

@iryskovalyalka @delphiniumpacificguinevere I think this is what you said about on a reblog back in March.

[delphiniumpacificguinevere]

Sick af Medrawd etymology just dropped. 'He who races ahead to cut down foes in combat.' Names to run away from really fast, ngl.

(Source: Andrew Breeze - 'Who Was King Arthur's Sir Modred?')

[delphiniumpacificguinevere]

Thinking about him again

(Art by @wildbasil )

Dylan Ail Don, beloved. I'm deep in the trenches (read: The Mabinogion for the 1,000th time) and am going 😵‍💫🫠😊 about him and his plotline in my books. Ough.

(Pookie posse: @dullyn @gwalch-mei @trojancoconut I'm adding u in cuz yes)

[delphiniumpacificguinevere]

E-mail Interview to PHYLLIS ANN KARR, author of the arthurian novels Idylls of the Queen and The Follies of Sir Harald and the useful and detailed arthurian dictionary The Arthurian Companion, plus many short arthurian stories in various collections.She is actually a very prolific writer and she has written many novels, poetries and short stories.

You probably all know that Idylls of the Queen is my favourite arthurian novel so you can only imagine my excitement (and nervousness) when I tried to send her a fanmail, because it seems like I can’t shup up about my love for Idylls of the Queen. And for my immense joy she answered me! And Phyllis Ann Karr was kind enough to answer to some silly arthurian related questions. These are the screencaps of the mail interview and I hope you’ll enjoy reading it as much as I did because her answers are both interesting and complete.

I’d like again to thank Phyllis Ann Karr for making me a happy woman and giving us the possibility to read a little more about her own opinion on arthurian legends!

(edit: there was a mistake but I fixed it!)

[delphiniumpacificguinevere]

It’s so weird now that I’ve read a bunch of medieval lit how I can read a modern Arthurian novel and you can tell right away who has read the source material and who read TH White and nothing else. When Phillys Ann Karr referenced Gaheris’s infidelity and named all the swords, you can tell she read the Vulgate and Le Morte d’Arthur. When Cherith Baldry went in-depth to Kay’s position at court and fully realized his role as seneschal, you can tell she researched the time period. When Gwen Rowley referred to Gawain’s healing capabilities, called him “Hawk of May,” and had him actually quote the Green Knight poem, you can tell her subtle eye dialect was a lovingly crafted homage and not ripped from TH White. Just? Love you women you’re doing great work.

[delphiniumpacificguinevere]

Why Get Angry at Helen? Genesis (3:13) // Eve, Anna Lea Merritt // Agamemnon, Aeschylus (tr. by Anne Carson) // The Tale's Worth Telling: A Thematic Comparison of Homer's Iliad and Malory's Morte D'Arthur (x) // Love's Shadow, Frederick Sandys // Guinevere, Lord Alfred Tennyson // The Winter King, Bernard Cornwell // Helen of Troy, Frederick Sandys // Guenevere, Sara Teasdale // The Faerie Queene, Edmund Spenser // La Belle Dame Sans Merci, Frank Dicksee // Pandora's Jar: Women in the Greek Myths, Natalie Haynes // Psyche Opening The Golden Box, John William Waterhouse

[delphiniumpacificguinevere]

So you know that idea about Arthur having to go on a quest to prove himself of worthy of Gwenhwyfar’s hand in marriage? Well, what do you think that quest would’ve involved, in this hypothetical scenario.

Hi, anon! Sorry it's taken me so long to answer but I think theoretically it could've been like a Culhwch ac Olwen thing where Arthur had to do multiple quests and maybe met his besties Bedwyr and Cai along the way. I'd love to see an origin story where they meet like that, I think it would be so interesting!

As to what the quest itself could be, I would like to imagine that it's Gwen herself who gives Arthur the quest. She'd be quite formidable. I reckon it could be like him battling Rhitta Gawr or smth? I know that's not how the legend of that is prefaced but it would be cool if Arthur had to get a trophy for her. I do think also Gwen would accompany him on the quest. She's a giant, she wants to see if her husband-to-be/lad-who-wants-her-hand-in-marriage is all he's cracked up to be. Plus, it would be fun if she was instrumental in helping Arthur out when the going got tough.

I was talking to @trojancoconut about this actually, but Guin defo gives Arthur one massive sprawling quest that gets more stuff added to it as it goes along. Y'know, like he's expecting one thing - Rhitta Gawr - and suddenly it turns into this giant has kidnapped my sister and half-brothers could u pls get him back for me? Also, my dad is being menaced by a group of giants, could u help him? Also, I need my sword sharpening, could u get a whetstone for it? And so on, and so forth.

[delphiniumpacificguinevere]

It’s a major red flag to me when people rewrite Odysseus or Lancelot as a cheaters

Not only did you completely misunderstand their characters but it also just goes to show how people refuse to acknowledge male victims of sexual assault

[delphiniumpacificguinevere]

Arthuriana Quick Bites : Short Reads in 200 Pages or Less

Want to read some Arthuriana but short on time?

A collection of short medieval texts, poems, plays, and short stories and anthologies.

Links are provided to PDF's for free reading or to download. If a book is still in print, a link to where you can purchase will be provided. This post will be updated as necessary.

This post was made in collaboration with and wouldn't have been possible without @queer-ragnelle! The following PDF's are supplied by the Arthurian Preservation Project, which i emplore you to go check out for yourself. My personal reccomendations are bolded and higlighted in pink, while L's reccomendations are in green.

Medieval Texts

Alliterative Morte Arthure 💖 translated by Richard Scott-Robinson

Erex Saga and Ívens Saga💖 translated by Foster W. Blaisdell and Marianne E. Kalink

Guingamor / Lanval / Tyolet / Bisclaveret by Marie de France translated by Jessie Weston

King Artus translated by Curt Leviant

Morien💖translated by Jessie Weston

Peredur 💖 translated by Meirion Pennar

Pulzella Gaia

Roman de Brut by Wace translated by Eugene Mason

The Adventure of Melora and Orlando translated by John R. Harris

The Perilous Graveyard translated by Ross G. Arthur

The Romance of Perceval 💖 translated by Dell Skeels

The Turke and Sir Gawain💖 translated by Dr. Brian Gastle

The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle 💖translated by Dr. David Breeden

Sir Launfal by Thomas Chestre

Sir Perceval de Galles / Ywain and Gawain 💖 edited by Mary Flowers Braswell

Short Stories

A Camelot Triptych💖 by Norris J Lacy

From Camelot to China💖 translated by Annegret Oehme

Hunt of the Hart Royal by Cherith Baldry

In the Forest Perilous by Cherith Baldry

The Trial of Sir Kay💖 by Cherith Baldry

The Last Knight of Camelot: The Chronicles of Sir Kay by Cherith Baldry

Kairo-Kō: A Dirge💖 by Natsume Sōseki

Mordred and the Green Knight 💖 by Phyllis Ann Karr

Sir Agravaine💖 by P. G. Wodehouse

The Fortunate Island by Max Adeler

Poems

Five Arthurian Poems 💖by William Morris (Galahad: A Christmas Mystery my beloved!)

Lancelot💖 by Edwin Arlington Robinson

Merlin by Edwin Arlington Robinson

Tristram by Edwin Arlington Robinson

Maid Avoraine by R. Williams Buchanan

Post-Laureate Idyls & Other Poems💖 by Oscar Fay Adams

Six Ballads About King Arthur by Your Loving Granny

Plays

Merlin in Love by Aaron Hill

Mordred, A Tragedy 💖 by Henry Newbolt

King Arthur by J. Comyns Car

Lancelot💖 by James Bridie

The Quest of Merlin by Richard Hovey

The Marriage of Guenevere by Richard Hovey

The Birth of Galahad 💖by Richard Hovey

Taliesin by Richard Hovey

The Holy Grail by Richard Hovey

The Misfortunes of Arthur💖 by Thomas Hughes

The Birth of Merlin by William Shakespeare & William Rowley

Vortigern and Rowena by William Shakespeare (Apocryphal)

Anthologies

Arthurian Tales: Author's Choice by Phyllis Ann Karr

Arthur, The Greatest King - An Anthology of Modern Arthurian Poems by Alan Lupack

The Camelot Chronicles edited by Mike Ashley

The Chronicles of the Round Table edited by Mike Ashley

The Chronicles of the Holy Grail edited by Mike Ashley

The Pendragon Chronicles edited by Mike Ashley

The Merlin Chronicles edited by Mike Ashley

Invitation to Camelot edited by Parke Godwin

Other Masterposts by L @queer-ragnelle:

Beginner's Guide to Medieval Arthuriana

Hi-Lo Arthuriana

♡ Loathly Lady Master Post ♡

Happy reading! 💕

[delphiniumpacificguinevere]

Castles - art by Alan Lee (1984)

[delphiniumpacificguinevere]

Hi all I spent all day hunting down the Faroese Ballad Tístrams Táttur. After sprinting to my unis library, I have a copy to share with you! Here it is. It has a fun history, and is a fun little ditty. 

[delphiniumpacificguinevere]

[delphiniumpacificguinevere]

also, there's a lot of wlw pairings in arthuriana if you know where to look and i wish they got more focus. even in a non romantic lens. isolde/brangaine, laudine/lunette, enid/guinevere, morgan/sebile are there in medlit and their relationships are sooo complex layered and fascinating.

also, if arthur gets to have homoeroticism with his knights then so too should guinevere with her ladies.

WELCOME TO THE MASTER POST OF

Here I shall detail various Arthurian media with apparent yuri encounters we as a fandom could stand to appreciate more! All details will be marked with links so you can read or watch the media for yourselves.

Wholesome Yuri

♡ Ragnelle/Guinevere ♡

— Sir Gawain and the Loathly Lady by Selina Hastings

— Queen of the Summer Stars by Persia Woolley

♡ Guinevere/Enid ♡

— Illustration by George Wooliscroft Rhead & Louis Rhead

— The Mabinogion

— Erec et Enide by Chrétien de Troyes

— Erec by Hartmann von Aue

— Mordred a Tragedy by Henry Newbolt

— Idylls of the King by Alfred Lord Tennyson

♡ Guinevere/Elaine ♡

— Knights of the Round Table (1953)

— The Birth of Galahad by Richard Hovey

♡ Guinevere/Isolde ♡

— Guenevere and Isoude Stained Glass by William Morris

— Prose Tristan

— La Tavola Ritonda

— King Arthur's Tomb by William Morris

♡ Guinevere/Bloie of Malehaut ♡

— Vulgate: Lancelot Part II

Toxic Yuri

♡ Guinevere/Morgan ♡

— The Mantle

♡ Laudine/Lunette ♡

— Yvain: Knight with the Lion by Chrétien de Troyes

— Iwein: Knight With the Lion by Hartmann von Aue

— Yvain: Knight with the Lion by John Howe

— Yvain: Knight with the Lion by M. T. Anderson

♡ Isolde/Brangain ♡

— Prose Tristan

— Le Morte d'Arthur by Sir Thomas Malory

I reached picture limit lol but there's even more out there for each example plus more couples/throuples I didn't even get to. So yeah there's plenty of sapphic potential in Arthurian Legend across a wide variety of media. Let's celebrate it!

[delphiniumpacificguinevere]

I'm curious about the relationship between religion and non-human (but resemble human) species like fae and giants

Do they follow it? Do they have their own version of it? How different are they actually from humans?

Honestly, its a toss up. Some are Christian, some are not, some are hostile and some others are indifferent. It gets pretty lulzy when pagan figures like Gwyn ap Nudd are considered in a Christian context.

The topic of religion is murky because sometimes the supernatural could be used as an allegory for the heathen but other times they're just treated secularly as just either an opposing force (mostly in the case of giants) or benevolent entities.

That's why you have, in Arthuriana, giants and fairies like Morholt and Morgan, as professed Christians while some others are an obvious "monsterized" stand-in for pagans, like the various Saxon giants found in Vulgate.

In later folklore, there's this consensus that non-humans do not have souls and don't go to the Christian afterlife, like in The Little Mermaid. I suppose that the Christian religion deals with the human condition and the original sin, so maybe non-humans can't factor into that.

It doesn't help that Medieval storytellers don't concern themselves with worldbuilding the way we do. They probably didn't even concieve of fairies and giants as separate "races" so much as just "the other folk". Nevertheless, you do have stories like Thomas the Rhymer and Tam Lin try and fit in fairies as a separate category in a Christian cosmology*, being forced to pay taxes to Hell.

I can generally say its pretty much up for grabs just how religion figures toward non-human beings.

*(At least, when they're not being rewritten as angels or demons by Christian writers)

[delphiniumpacificguinevere]

Lancelot in the vulgate cycle