discourse-quantum

[discourse-quantum]

^^^^ never forget that butch history is also transmasculine history & anti-butchness is always anti-transmasculine

[discourse-quantum]

It's because it's ALWAYS meant in a derogatory "trans men aren't opressed" way.

literally the state of transphobia in the transandrophobia community is obvious just at the outrage to the phrase "trans men really are men"/"trans men are the men of the trans community". if your gut reaction is "no we aren't!!!" maybe pause for a second and think on why that is

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That makes sense! I do have a welfarist perspectice, but yeah I get that it's not really doable in a large scale, the same way certain systems need tearing down rather than reform.

Honestly the issue I take with vegans is with the ones that are actually unreasonable (like the mfs condemning people in the artic for hunting) bc they're just virtue signaling.

If someone was keeping meat animals as pets, and killing them in a point of health issues/old age only + utilizing the meat, what would be your opinion on that?

And one more thing, do you have anything to say about plant farming practices? Meeting demand for plant based food, at least in the system that we have today, also entails exploitation of humans

I'm genuinely super curious what the thought process of vegans is. Why not ethical farming rather than no farming at all? What do ya'll think about people that can't eat vegan point blank?

[discourse-quantum]

I'm genuinely super curious what the thought process of vegans is. Why not ethical farming rather than no farming at all? What do ya'll think about people that can't eat vegan point blank?

[discourse-quantum]

alert alert a trans man expressed enjoyment in being a man for a moment and didn’t feel sorry about it y’all gotta do something about it how dare he say “men are cool” without stating he knows oppression and patriarchy exists and he’s sorry before that

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"thank god i was born into this pure and untainted afab body instead of an icky amab one" like seriously i'm begging you to just ditch the quirky language and admit you think """"amab bodies"""" are inherently unfortunate or undesirable. i don't know how you can say this as a transmasc and expect transfems to trust you, you're weird as fuck. just for once can you people please think about the kind of language you are using and how it comes across.

[discourse-quantum]

Y'all know that "trans men don't suffer from significant oppression" is just the logical end point of the TERF belief that trans men transition to escape misogyny & sexism, right? Like, y'all realize how bullshit that is, right? That when you downplay and ignore and make assumptions about the experiences of trans men that you're just doing the work of transphobes who want to prove that we're "escaping" oppression to become oppressors. And surely that is not the hill you want to die on? Surely you care about trans people and have enough understanding of transphobia to know that you shouldn't take TERF talking points at face value and uncritically adopt them into your worldview, RIGHT? Surely you understand that oppression relies heavily on misrepresenting the group it's targeting and that the best way to combat that is to actually listen directly to the members of that group and get to know them as individuals, RIGHT? Surely you wouldn't shout down the throats of the trans men while they’re trying to speak on their pain and the effects of systemic oppression on their livelihood, RIGHT? RIGHT???

[discourse-quantum]

You know when other queer and trans people mock transmasc peeps by saying "you wanna be oppressed sooooo bad" and you just sit there in your shitty Ikea chair that you got on discount with Christmas money bc your mother is doing everything in her power to make your jobless ass pay for food with the money you've saved up for top surgery and you see your account dwindling and no one will hire a mid-transition heshe fat faggot and you cry yourself to sleep because t is a regulated substance that you worked so fucking hard (8 fucking years) to get and people tell you that the reason you want to be a man is due to either sexual abuse or trauma from misogyny or that you want male privilege and half of us are thinking of killing ourselves or detransitioning or trying To not be a man because everyone fucking hates us, even the community that was supposed to protect us and we can't ever win and like.

Idk, do you ever just laugh at that shit? I just did. I read it and I wonder how they see me. How they imagine me in their head, what our lives must be like. Black trans men who have mother's and father's sitting down with them and saying, "If you medically transition and look masculine, police will start targeting you." East Asian trans men who are already fucking fetishized and infalintilized and tokenized by cis white women in the West. Brown trans men realizing that women now look at them with either disgust or fear. Disabled trans men, even more emasculated, and taken their autonomy away, their voices away. Intersex trans men who have had their bodies scrutinized since they were fucking born. Trans men who enjoy the things that label someone "feminine" and fully identifying as men, only to be told they're transtrenders.

Trans men who are old, old and tired, discovering this just now, thinking they've wasted time. Or twenty year olds who also think it's too late.

You - you sit behind your computer and mock us and laugh at us and grit your teeth and hate our neck ears and barely-there moustaches and our cracking voices and our fatness or thinness or shortness and mock cis men thinking we don't see the way you body shame the men you dislike. And the men you like. You nitpick and sneer and dismiss our pain as if we weren't stepped on by the patriarchy as well.

As if my entire life I hadn't fucking struggled to be listened to.

"Ladies don't raise their voices. Ladies don't play with videogames. Ladies don't throw a punch."

"Ladies don't get angry."

When the world knew me as a girl, my anger wasn't just justified, but it was righteous and liberating and inspirational.

And now you hypocrites try to strip marginalized men of our voices because you've gotten so fucking comfortable with your little radfem cult. So fucking safe, so fucking easy to consider women and feminine people an all-acompassing blanket of good traits. You saw the radfem Kool aid and you drank it and now look at the state of fucking trans discourse.

So here's what I'll say to you: we don't fucking need you. We don't need your approval to be happy, to have human rights, to have our feelings acknowledged, our trans and queer theory and words "approved".

We don't FUCKING need you. All we need is the fucking WILL to live while you all rejoice in how feminist and progressive you all are, stepping on hands grasping at the ledge, taking out your anger on an easy target.

So good riddance. I spit on your face. I will have my theory, my words, my love, and my transmasculine siblings at my side.

And at the end of the day, all you will have is shame.

[discourse-quantum]

Honestly, commercial surrogacy has to be heavily regulated if not outright banned. Like that's someone's BODY not something that can be bound to a contract. Anything beyond "deliver the baby and give it to us" should not be an enactable requirement, and the parents should be MANDATED to take it out of the hospital at very least even if it comes out a way they didn't expect/want/"""pay for"""

[discourse-quantum]

@unsentimentaltranslator

And

https://www.tumblr.com/lunaslefthand/738964089720750080/get-me-out-of-this-dumb-fuck-university?source=share .

(Not posting a screenshot of that one because graphic images of unhealed phallo results and surgery)

Also, just what I could find in a five minute search, have seen much more in the wild

I make a connection to the TERF movement bc I'm fairly certain yall are the only people who at large have the especific set of beliefs of FGM is bad + trans people aren't their gender + transmascs are opressed sisters and just need help. I don't think anyone else would make statements like above

It deeply upsets me when TERFS refer to phallo/metoidioplasty as FGM. Like, you know there is a difference, right? It fucking sickens me to see people equate an elective and relatively safe safe procedure done by medical professionals in a sterile environment to FGM, which most of the time leaves people disabled and in pain for life, when it doesn't kill them.

[discourse-quantum]

It deeply upsets me when TERFS refer to phallo/metoidioplasty as FGM. Like, you know there is a difference, right? It fucking sickens me to see people equate an elective and relatively safe safe procedure done by medical professionals in a sterile environment to FGM, which most of the time leaves people disabled and in pain for life, when it doesn't kill them.

[discourse-quantum]

On my knees begging pleading for at least some of you all to understand that it's up to a trans man to define his own connection to womanhood or lack thereof and determine for himself whether or not he feels it is appropriate to define himself using traditionally female language and communities and whether or not he feels it's appropriate for him to be in a "woman's space." Some trans men aren't men. Some trans men are women. If you can't respect that, I don't trust you around trans men.

[discourse-quantum]

funny that trans men are told to be quiet, speak when spoken to, never acknowledge their oppression. funny that some people online are characterizing us as either incompetent and unintelligent, or insidious, untrustworthy snakes. i wonder if that’s reminiscent of anything else that’s been said about any other gendered group… i can’t quite put my finger on it…

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Genuinely what do you think agab means. Do you think it's a woke version of male/female. Agab means nothing except what doctors decided you are based on the appearance of your genitalia. I'm sorry but terms like afab transfem, amab transmasc, etc, are relevant and make sense for intersex people

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Man saying that male and female socialization aren't real just makes you sound fucking stupid. It's a documented phenomenon and it does not invalidate trans identity. Morons

[discourse-quantum]

The drastic separation between social positions of transfems and transmascs is a theoretical invention of writers who spoke to very few transmascs and tried to fill the gap by assumptions that stem from the "opposite gender" crap.

"Transmasculine transition is respected in the society because cis people see becoming a man as stepping up" is one of the most hilarious and sad examples of that, but there's also "coming out as a trans man leads to less sexual objectification" and "trans men are simultaneously respected more because they're men and protected more because they're afab".

None of it is real. This is just a calculated inverse of what transfems go through. We should abandon this framework for the sake of something that's actually rooted in reality.

[discourse-quantum]

i see "men bad" jokes as very similar to suicide jokes. like making them every once in a while isn't the worst thing, but if you Keep making them constantly. it DOES shape how you start thinking and you WILL become a more unpleasant and bitter person and also make people around you uncomfortable. and sometimes you just gotta choose to not make or engage with certain jokes, even if they are amusing to you, because its just not who you wanna be