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[eisforeidolon]

Hellers are, as ever, their own worst enemies.

They actively made the choice to pretend the only thing Jensen ever said about the finale was his commentary about initially having some reservations. They actively made the choice to wildly extrapolate that into him hating the finale and especially the barn scene which he is traumatized by because Dean was totally ~*suicidal*~ over Castiel ... despite everything else he's said and how fucking dumbass of a take that is. They actively made the choice to believe, apropos of nothing but their own hot air, that the only reason he wants to bring Dean Winchester back in a revival is to make their ship canon, because that is the actual tragedy of his death.

So whenever we have a weekend like this?

Where in one panel, on his own initiative, Jensen reiterates the barn scene is one of his favorite scenes that he (and Jared) got to add unscripted content to, allowing them to really dive into the emotion and make it theirs? Where in a completely different panel, Jensen brings up the finale as one of his favorite darkest episodes because of the contrast between Dean being in his happy place and then dying doing what he loves? Pointedly saying he thinks that makes for good tv? Where he only brings up Misha/Castiel to joke about being unable to remember his name (twice) and joke that 4x01 is another darkest episode because he joined the cast then? Where he and Jared are perfectly happy to do barn scene recreation ops yet again?

Of course they throw tantrums at the (inevitably temporary) intrusion of reality into their delusions. They could just enjoy their ship and be happy with all their fandom content, but nope! They'd rather lie to themselves and each other and play out this same absurd scenario time and time and time again.

[eisforeidolon]

Question: Is there anything that was written into SPN that you guys were like, absolutely no friggin' way, we're not filming it, it's not happening? Or that you were dreadfully uncomfortable and told them that and you had to do it anyway?

Rich: I didn't do a lot of episodes, this question's for you.

Jensen: I'll give you two, two thin- the answer is no. There was never anything that would - I mean, we were on network television, there's not a whole lot that you can do, because of standards and practices. So we were never asked to do something that I think was outside of a comfort zone. Which is why when Eric got his hands on me outside of that comfort zone? He took full advantage of it. But on Supernatural it was more like things - you know, when a director would come in and say - into the galley, the kitchen, of the Men of Letters - and be like, it's just so drab in here, I think maybe we should add some flowers, let's put some vases and some flowers. And then didn't check with anyone -

Rich: It was not me! Just real quickly [Jensen whispers something behind his hand] Oh really?

Jensen: And took some urns and was like, let's just dump that out and let's put some flowers in there and then - And meanwhile, the crew's like [backs away slowly]. And then I walk on set and I'm like, [points] what's goin' on there? What're we doin'? And they're all, we're just adding a little color to the palette. And I'm like, No. Well, we're gonna start out on the flowers, on the carnations and we're gonna come up and find you walking in. And I was like, I'll be right back. And I walked off set and I quickly called Jerry Wanek, our production designer, and I was like, [pretends to hold phone to his ear] Hey Jerry. Yeah. He's got flowers on the island in the Men of Letters. [muffled gruff voice] What?!? [imitates gruff ranting sans words from other end of phone]. That's what I thought. See you in a second. [pretends to hang up] Jerry came flying down to set, literally. Just like, no no, this has been established, these guys, have you watched - do you know what show you're on?

Rich: Yeah, that'd be the question, right?

Jensen: So it was more like things like that. It was more preserving I think what we have built and less about an uncomfortability. It was like, no, that's not what we do here. And that's fine. Like some people came in and they had their own ideas and we just shut them down.

[eisforeidolon]

Question: I just want to ask you a two part question I went to ask Jared yesterday. What are your funniest favorite episode from Supernatural and your favorite darkest sort of episode as well?

Rich: Favorite funniest and favorite darkest.

Jensen: Favorite darkest, ooh. I would argue either French Mistake, Changing Channels, Yellow Fever for funniest. Darkest, man, Lazarus Rising? And not just because it was Misha's first episode, but like Dean coming back from the dead was heavy. But I honestly, like, if you're talking dark, I think it has to go, it's gotta go 15x20. It's gotta go to when you mix the light with that much dark and you get that much contrast in one episode where Dean's in his happy place, doing what he loves to do, hunting alongside his brother? And then he dies doing the thing that he loves? That's about as contrast-y as you can get. But I also think that that's what makes really good television.

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Question: How did Supernatural ending affect your day-to-day relationship with Jensen? 'Cause you went from working together every day to not.

Jared: Yeah, great question. It didn't, really? I mean, even during Supernatural - granted we spent so much time with each other every day? But if, you know, he had a week off, he went to see his family. I went to see my family. And we'd text and be like, hey, I'm going to dinner, I'm gonna watch the game or UFC fight or something. It was like, ah, I can't make it, or I can, I'll see you there. And so it never really changed. And I think it's this far out - four years after wrapping? It's so weird to think about fifteen years. You know in America, kindergarten - I'm sorry, school is like, kindergarten, first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth, eleventh, twelfth. That's when you graduate high school, and then thirteenth and fourteenth and so it's almost like starting with somebody in kindergarten and going all the way through sophomore year in college or university with somebody. But that's the only fucking person you see, it's not like, oh, he's in the class, it's like, oh, I'm staring at his face all the time. And so we'll always have a pretty deep connection. And I was friends with him when he met his wife, he was on set when I met my wife. You know, we flew together when he had his twins and I was on set with him when my first was born. So we have all these milestones that we've shared and so it's just an easy relationship, you know? Like, if I don't see him for a day? It's like, hey. If I don't see him for a month? It's like, hey. It's a great - it's not a needy relationship. Like I'm totally needy with my wife, if I don't talk to her, I'm like is she mad at me? Just kidding. Kinda kidding. But with Ackles, we're just buddies, you know? I know he's busy, he knows I'm busy. So it's almost like a - and the way my life is structured, I had a great question, well, Jensen and I both had a great question yesterday about, like, what's your next goal in life. About, like, being better about relationships. My brother, my legit brother I just talked about? He lives a ten minute drive away. Sometimes we'll see each other three times in a week, our kids will play together and all that? And sometimes I don't see him for two months. And he lives ten minutes away. But it's like, okay, he's a doctor, he has a wife and kids, I'm an actor with a wife and kids, life is busy. But I'm not concerned. And he's not concerned. So I feel like that's the same. I don't think my time not filming with him now is different than my time not filming with him four years ago, five years ago, ten years ago, a hundred years ago, however fucking long we [?]. So yeah, I'll always - he stood at my wedding, I stood at his, we'll always be connected.

[eisforeidolon]

Question: So as an older sibling, I relate a lot to Dean and his relationship with Sam, and I was wondering what it was like to build that relationship up on screen?

Jensen: I mean, that relationship started the moment I met Jared. And I say that because we immediately had this connection through just our - who we were. Both born and raised, y'know, similar area by similar parents, surrounded ourselves with similar friends, played the same kind of sports, had the same kind of interests. He was a little bit more nerdy than I was but that's fine. He was a mathlete, which [makes dismissive noise] - nothing against math, it's useful, but don't be a dork about it like he was. [laughs] So but when we first introduced ourselves, it was immediate, there was, it was like - Oh where are you from? Oh, San Antonio. Where are you from? Dallas? No way. You know, we'd root for the same sports teams, there was just an immediate, like, friendship that happened when we met. And so the day we met was the day that we ended up auditioning together as Dean and Sam in front of the studio and the network and everything, so. So we went from meeting each other in the waiting room of the studio to then going into another room and playing brothers. And so it was instant, that that started. And then what really solidified it was when we got the job, which was that day in the room, they were like, congratulations, you guys are the brothers Winchester. And we're like, sweet! So then they, the studio was like, alright, well let's get these guys in fighting shape. Like these brothers should know how to handle themselves. And I was like, uh, I know how to handle myself. And they're like, no no no, we know, but we're gonna help you out a little bit anyway. I'm like, alright, fine. So they put us into boxing training. We went and started working at this gym, this boxing gym, started learning, we were punching things every day. I'll never forget one time they were like, alright, it had been, like, a few weeks and we'd been working on the heavy bag, working speed bags, working on focus mitts.

Jensen: And they were like, alright, I think you guys are ready to get in the ring together. And we're like, oho. And I'm looking at him like, I'm gonna knock this tall skinny son of a bitch out. And we put the head gear on, and we were dancing around, a couple of jabs to the body, a couple punches, and then he just rocked my nose, just boom! and I was like [makes exaggerated faces] and I went back against the ropes, and I was just like, you motherfucker. And so I was back and then I went for a jab and he dodged it, and I just went [mimes throwing a punch] boom! right in the side of his ear. And he was like, and he'll tell you, he was like, it was like a bell rung [imitates bell noise, and exaggeratedly staggers]. And then, I forget, I think he just started swinging his arms wildly and then I [mimes swinging wildly] and they were like, 'Alright alright alright! We're done! You guys don't get to fight against each other any more!' And then he and I were like, yeah, I think we're better if we fight other people together, rather than each other. So that again kind of started solidifying our relationship. And then as some of you know, we ended getting up to Vancouver and we had an unfortunate incident where after a few days of filming, everything was going great, he and I were having a great time, we went to go meet a producer at a restaurant one evening after we finished work and there was a group of drunk guys that just started fighting us in the street. They mistook us for somebody that they had just gotten kicked out of a bar - because they were in, some of you know this story. They got into a thing with some other guys in a bar, they got kicked out, and then when they were coming around the side of the building, we happened to be walking that way, and they were like, 'That's them!' And Jared and I were like, 'Who?' And that's all the warning we got, and then they just started throwing punches. Jared and I had just come off of, like, eight weeks of boxing training? [mimes blowing on and polishing his knuckles] Hold my beer. We lit 'em up. And then, yeah, that's, I mean, then he and I were bonded for life and that was just a few days into filming. So if we weren't already, you know, brother types, we were definitely then and then it just kept taking shape and growing as the seasons and the years went on and so yeah. It's why my kids call him Uncle Jared.

[eisforeidolon]

Question: What was your funniest favorite episode and your darkest favorite episode?

Jared: Fuckin' great question. First off, welcome. Funniest? Here's something, I think I know my answer to funniest, but I will say, not funniest while shooting. Like, kind of nerve-wracking while shooting. And I would go to two episodes, French Mistake and Changing Channels. And we had a great time during those episodes, like we had a great time filming those episodes? But it was kind of nerve-wracking because you're like, are we ruining this? Are we gonna ruin the show? Is it gonna be alright, are they gonna still watch us? It's like, okay, let's just make it real. I think French Mistake would probably be my number one because the opportunity to make fun of yourself, on camera, that's gonna last forever? It's pretty fuckin' cool. One of the most heartbreaking or heart-wrenching? Man, I forget the name of this episode. There was an episode later on, and I've talked about this before, but - there have been a few times - well, the finale, the series finale was hard. Not all of it, obviously, there was a lot of fun stuff, but that fucking barn scene was heartbreaking for months leading up to it, 'cause we were in the pandemic. There was an episode prior to that where Jensen and I are standing outside the Impala and Sam is berating Dean for something? And I couldn't remember my lines. And that doesn't happen to me. And not that I'm cool or something like that - [audience discussing] - Prophet and Loss. And it was so difficult because, like - and I'm a professional. I know my job, I take it seriously, I prepare and I go to work and I do it. I give it everything I have. But my brain wouldn't let me find - I felt like I had dementia or something - and I don't mean to make light of dementia, I've had family with it who've passed from it. But I just was like, I don't know what I'm saying right now, I can't fucking remember what I'm supposed to do next. And it was so difficult to get through it, and I kinda realized later that it was because Jared didn't like what Sam was saying? And so it was really difficult to learn. I went home and I cried myself to sleep. And I came home - I came to set the next day? And my eyes wouldn't open. 'Cause I went home and I was like, fucked up, I fucked up, I ruined Sam, I ruined Supernatural, like what's wrong with me? Like I know I did my homework, I've prepped for days, weeks, months, whatever, for hours a day. And I just couldn't do it. And I think I realized - and funny enough, to an earlier question? Sacrifice was like that, for me. With the Sam and Dean bit of, like, you know what I asked for forgiveness for in there was letting you down. Like who do you go to next, another vampire? You know? It was so difficult to get out, that - like, there was a disconnect? Like my own body's self preservation mode that I don't know where it exists, like kicked in. Don't say that shit, don't say it. That ain't gonna feel good, you're not gonna like that. So I would say those two sequences in Sacrifice and Prophet and Loss were, in hindsight - at the time I didn't know! You go to work, you're like I know my lines, I can say all the words right now. And then you get in the scene, you're doing it and you're like, why is this so hard? Why am I not rem- I know I did my preparation. So those two would be the most difficult.

Jared: But yeah, French Mistake, and then Changing Channels like, [does the voice] Nutcracker!!! Which was, by the way, terrifying. That was probably my scariest because the machine legitimately - and it was, when we were there, they put you in these, like, ski boots. They have redone ski boots? So you're in and then they lock you in, and the fuckin' ball on the stick was a legit ball on a stick that went like this [mimes ball movement and makes noise]. And so they sat me there and they're like, okay, you see this X mark on the thing? You're like yeah yeah, I see it. And you're locked in, they're like okay, don't let your hips go past that. Like, [incredulous expression] I'm sorry? So if I'm here [mimes moving hips forward], I'm getting hit in the nuts. [moves hips back] If I'm here, I'm okay. And so I was like, I think the first take we did, they're like, okay, we're gonna go ahead and do the stunt. Which I didn't get hit, it just looked like it. But I think I was like, okay, so the X mark? And they're like, yeah. And I was like, okay [pushes hips way back], I'm ready! And they were like, you look really weird right now. And I was like, no, I feel good, I feel good. And so I finally had to go, and I think the first one, as soon as I knew, it was like three, two, one, I was gonna get hit? I go [makes pained face and leans back]. And they're like, Jared, listen, we're hoping not to hit you, we need you to hold a straight face until the machine does that thing. And I was like [high pitched voice] Okay, I got it. So that was probably the most physical danger I felt I was gonna be in.

[eisforeidolon]

Question: [tells story about her father who passed away shortly after the show ended and how she got her dog shortly before that and therefore on rewatch related to Sam with Miracle in the finale] During that episode my dad kept asking me, like, 'Oh my God,' - the question is lighter than the introduction, he asked me, like - 'that dog has such great chemistry with the boys, like how do they do this? Is that their dog?' He wanted to know what it was like, what it's like to have a dog on set?

Jared: Amazing. I'm sorry for your loss. I'm glad y'all had that together. With the dog who played Miracle, they're very well trained dogs, you know? They're trained - and we've had dogs in episodes throughout the years. And so the chemistry between an animal and an actor on set? Is really whether or not the actor or actress feels comfortable with whatever the animal is. Whether it's a horse or a dog or a cat or

Auudience shouts: a snake!

Jared: A what? A spade? A snake! Fuck that! [laughs] Yeah. So I have a chicken coop down in Austin, well, Gen and I have a chicken coop. And got a picture of a huge snake - maybe she'll post it or I'll post it - in our chicken coop laying on top of the eggs. Not eating them, but just waiting to see if, like, a rat came? To eat the rat. It wasn't a poisonous snake, but still would mess you up. I'm like, man, I dunno. But with Miracle, as a for instance, Jensen and I both love dogs, y'know? And so bringing a dog to set, it's like, 'Ohhh!' Like I'll walk down the street and someone's walking a dog and I'll be like, 'Can I pet your dog?!' Like who is this weird lookin' dude. And so it was more just, they introduce you first, and they teach you certain things - like they teach you how that dog has learned to come or to sit or to stay. And you'll do it in character, but the dog - dogs are all energy? Like they just feel if you're scared, they feel if you're excited, they feel if you're friendly. And I think Jensen and I were just so happy to be around a dog on set? Like I had to look at his face for fifteen years, I was like, oh, at least I get a pretty dog. I'm tired of Ackles. And so it was great, it was great to have that pup there. Thank you for sharing your story, I'm sorry for your loss.

Jared: What's up, Susan?

New Question: Hi! So did you just call me Susan? It's [?] on my pass and I [?] -

Jared: I know, that was the joke, because you crossed out s-a-n. You didn't get the joke! I just called Jensen ugly, I'm not being serious right now!

[eisforeidolon]

Question: All of us know the end of the Supernatural, and for me it's two different finals, the real final and the previous episode with their car go and the road and disappear with all of these memories and everything. So if it would be different, you change the real final, or you like the real final [?]? Because for me it is so hard.

Jared: That's a great question. Welcome to the Supernatural family, you're already a part of it, but welcome to your fellow family and friends. That's a great question, and - do you have any siblings, family, friends?

Question: Yes, I have a friend that is a brother to me because it's the family that I choose.

Jared: Amazing, amazing. That's a big message of Supernatural. This is gonna be a weird question. If you - what's his/her name?

Question: Adrien.

Jared: If you have to live longer than Adrien, how would you want Adrien to pass? There's no good answer, right? Knock on wood and all that, hopefully, hopefully Elon Musk figures out how to make us all live forever. But there's no - in my life I've lost some friends, some family, some pets - which to me are family. And there's no great way. And I've had to put down - season three Gilmore Girls, I was like 20 years old, and I loved dogs. I feel like I am a dog. Honestly, honestly. And so I went and rescued a little dog. And her name was, I named her Sadie, got her from a rescue in Los Angeles, and she lived until 2019. So 2003-2019, she was sixteen, almost seventeen, I had to put her down. And it was so hard, and I'm gonna get emotional thinking about it. And there was no great way to do it, you know? But I knew it was her time and she was - I had to carry her around to go to the bathroom, I had to let her sleep on a blanket that I have to wash all the time because she couldn't hold her facilities, you know? And it was so hard to make a decision to put her down, because she just couldn't - she didn't have it any more. And it's still tough to think about to this day, but she got to live her best life and got to go away with integrity and dignity? And that meant a lot to me. There's no great way to say goodbye. All we can hope - well, there's no great way to say goodbye. With Supernatural, it wasn't goodbye, it was see you later. So I don't think of it as an ending. Yeah. It was a see you later and there was no easy way to do it, but we'll come back.

[eisforeidolon]

Question: I want to know what was your most favorite unscripted scene or your least favorite scripted scene or moment?

Jared: Oh wow. Great question. I'm thinking about a moment where -

Jensen: Wait, let me guess - I punched you?

Jared: Yep, where Sam gets possessed by the Meg demon and finally gets exorcised, but he had been like, kinda torturing Dean? And so Dean reaches over, after Sam is back to Sam, like 'What happened?' and just punches him? That was in season two, Jesus.

Jensen: That wasn't scripted.

Jared: That wasn't scripted. There's so much that wasn't necessarily scripted, you know? Certain moments - one of my least favorite things, maybe my least favorite thing that any writer can put into a script? Is like, Dean cries, Sam breaks down, Dean tears up, Sam and you know, whatever, do this. 'Cause there were so many, if you were to go through all of the scenes of Supernatural, which there are many? And then watch the episodes, rarely was there a sequence where it was like they get emotional where we did and there was so many where they don't even mention that we get emotional, but you just feel it. You're just there and you're like - I hate it where it's like, this is where I'm supposed to cry [derisive noise]. 'Cause sometimes you don't even know, you'll go through a scene and you'll go, like, oh shit, like, that's hittin' deep. And it's not because it's scripted. So offhand, God -

Jensen: I think there's a lot of moments, especially some of the emotional moments. One comes to mind, which is the barn scene -

Audience: Which one?

Jensen: [slightly incredulous tone] Which one?

Jared: The most recent one.

Jensen: Yeah.

Jared: Genius.

Jensen: Where I'd be interested to go back and look - and I can't remember if - maybe they didn't use it, go back and read that scene on the script and see how word for word it was on the performance. Because I feel like there were takes where I know I would maybe repeat myself, or I would say some things that I thought were, you know, dove into the emotion even more. And it wasn't something I'd planned, it's just like - felt it, you just feel something and if - when you've worked with somebody for so long, and you're so comfortable with the character, and you know the story so well, you can be available for those things to hit and you can act on them, and you can say those words, and you can say something that just makes it feel more real. And I feel like we did that in that scene, there was some dialogue that maybe was added -

Jared: It's a lot. I know, yeah.

Jensen: or massaged, or you know.

Jared: I don't know if it was ever added to a revision, or if we just did it, but the callback of, like, I can't do this alone, yes you can, well I don't want to? It's the exact same words that Dean said to Sam and vice versa. So there was stuff that wasn't scripted initially - and that goes back to an earlier question, about if there's stuff like Jensen do whatever you want. Like the feeling of that scene was like, here guys, we know this intense -

Jensen: Here's the template.

Jared: here's the template, make it y'all's. Like, y'all know Sam and Dean more than anybody ever will, you make it yours. And so he and I had a couple months because then COVID happened, the pandemic, and so we made it ours. It was so hard to rehearse that scene.

Jensen: Well, even the - like it was scripted where I was on the ground. [Jared: Yeah.] And Jared comes up and kind of cradles me and I'm, you know, like, effectively dying in his arms.

Jared: Which would have been so long to try and carry your ass.

Jensen: And I just felt really strongly, and I've told this story before, and I went to Bob Singer, who directed that episode, I went to him a couple days prior just thinking about that scene, because it was a monster, and it was looming. And I just - it didn't feel right, to die laying down. And I said, hey, is there any way - because they were still building the set - I was like, is there any way, can we figure out a way for me to die on my feet? And Bob was like, [curmudgeonly voice] how the hell are you gonna do that? Who dies on their feet? And I'm like, Dean Winchester dies on his feet. And he made it work brilliantly, because he came, I think he came up with the idea that the impalement was so severe that if you removed it - and then we had to add that dialogue in, so it made me stay there on my feet and I think it was just such a much more powerful visual, to see these two brothers face to face in that moment. And so, you know, that was certainly one big thing that was totally unscripted that I fought for and I'm really happy I did, because -

Jared: Hell yes.

Jensen: I think it just made that scene that much more powerful.

Jared: Also I'm grinning to myself because I've watched a lot of the 15x20 reaction videos, the finale? And there's some really savvy tv viewers out there who've seen a lot of different television shows, a lot of different episodes of them. And you'll watch some and they'll be like, 'Oh, yeah, oh Sam's takin' on the big guy, oh yeah take that blah blah blah!' And then when Dean goes to the post and then runs out where it shows, they'll be like, 'Yeah - oh no. Oh c'mon now, no no no, they just showed that for too long - Oh shit! And then, like, turn it off because I'm crying.

Jensen: I still love the fact that the stunt guy, who is awesome, he's like ex-military, giant, one of the biggest guys we've ever had on our show, his name was Heidi. And he killed Dean Winchester [laughs]. But he's an awesome guy and in fact I was just in Vancouver and working with Jesse and Jesse and Heidi are like super close buds now, so it was good to kinda reminisce with those guys a little bit.

[eisforeidolon]

Question: I am easily embarrassed and I blush really badly. And I was wondering, when was the last time you blushed, and why were you blushing?

Jared: Did you hear the snowplow joke? So it was [checks watch] thirteen minutes ago. Blushed - I don't blush, I sweat. Like when I get anxious or embarrassed I just start sweating. Again, probably today? That's a good point, I dunno.

Jensen: Uh, I dunno. I'll - I, this might be weird to believe, but I'm really bad at [laughs to himself] public speaking. No no, it's t- Like this? I feel like I can do because it's more conversational, right? This is just, I'm just talking with you guys. But if I need to get up and give, like, a speech in front of a crowd of people that I may or may not know? Man, that's hard for me. And I just recently had to do kind of an impromptu - I was just filming something and when I wrapped and I was finished, people were like, 'Speech, speech, speech!' And I was like, 'Shit.' And so I had to stand there on set with a whole bunch of crew, some I knew and most I didn't, and basically thank them for an experience and try to say something of value and something meaningful and I just - I mean, I must of been beet red, because I was stuttering and I was like, 'Um, so I, this is really, you guys, this has been, and I don't, if-if you understand, please, somebody hit me, in the face, immediately, with a blunt object.' So I dunno, that was just last week so that's kind of fresh on the brain. But yeah, that was difficult, oddly, because it's not like I'm nervous getting in front of people and having this kind of conversation, but when I'm supposed to, off the cuff, say something meaningful to a, you know, a mixed crowd, I kind of, I get really nervous and -

Jared: And [?] that was me on Walker this week.

Jensen: Yeah, yeah. So anyway, that was recent.

Jared: Yeah, that's too funny, I - same, same. This past week, Tuesday, you know, we wrapped and they were like, 'Heeey and that's a season four wrap on Jared.' And everybody just got quiet, no one was yelling speech, but I was like, 'Oh, fuck, they're wanting me to say something.'

Jensen: They're all staring at you like [makes face of attentive listening].

Jared: Yeah, and I've known them for four years -

Question: You mean like us?

Jared: No, no but it's like, I know these people -

Jensen: No, it's more like, you better say something great.

Jared: Other than that situation, which is funny, because same? I kind of subscribe to the belief that - I heard this one time and I loved it, and so I'll say it, but you can't rob a naked person? Which is to say, like, I kind of lead with [stops for audience laughter] - in a snowstorm you can!

Jensen: Well, they've clearly already robbed themselves of dignity, so that's -

Jared: But I feel like I lead with like, hey, I'm a fucking nerd. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not really cool, I have a cool job, and I love telling stories but I also love hearing stories, you know, so I'm like don't expect anything neat from me, I'm just a fucking weird Texan moose. And so I under-promise a lot, I think is the easiest way I avoid embarrassment, not that that's the correct way to do it. But you did well, you're not blushing.

[eisforeidolon]

Question: It's been a while since you two have played Sam and Dean on Supernatural, so I was just wondering, when it's just the two of you and there's nobody else around, do you just sometimes pretend to be Sam and Dean?

Jared: Did you - I'll tell you the truth if you tell me the truth. Did you bring something with you from the Netherlands and use it this morning to? I'm kidding, kidding [laughs]. I don't - that's a great question, a funny question, I don't think we've ever been asked it. I think there's a part of Jared that's Sam - I think there's a part of Jared that's Dean. I think there's a part of Jensen that's Dean, and a part of Jensen that's Sam. Like, these guys were in our lives for fifteen years, we've lived with them. So I don't think we ever, like, go through scenes?

Question: [?] when you're driving in the car, it's just the two of you and then you say, 'Now get this"

Jared: Yeah, yeah, we'll pull out our weapons and our machetes. Every now and again when he and I are together and no one's around, he will kind of take a moment and say, 'You smell that?' And I'll be like, 'It ain't sulfur.' [ostentatiously winks]

Jensen: I'd say it's probably more of us referencing [Jared: Yeah.] Sam, Dean, and Supernatural, and the experience that we had for fifteen years, rather than slipping into the characters and [both chuckle]

Jared: I blacked out, what happened?

Jensen: Somebody yell action!

Jared: She might be on to something though, maybe we should try? Just look around and be like, 'Anybody there?' [audience cheers] She said when no one else is around! Y'all are right fuckin' there! No, but maybe every now and again if we're just sittin down, chillin out, be like, 'Anybody here?' [faux whisper to Jensen] I don't hear anything. 'Anybody here?' [to Jensen] Alright, so get this, the lore says... I'm not against it.

Jensen: We would also probably get arrested. We should - for Halloween, we should just go as Sam and Dean, and like, cruise in the Impala around town.

Jared: That's probably the easiest outfit to buy.

Jensen: So easy.

Jared: A flannel shirt and some boots.

Jensen: So easy, and we look just like 'em. Like it's -

Jared: We look like they aged poorly. Just kidding. Thank you.

[eisforeidolon]

You know, I find it pretty telling that it's always, always with sexuality and shipping that they just can't understaaaaaaand how canon =/= fanon/fanfic.

They can comprehend someone writing a coffee shop au doesn't believe Sam and/or Dean are really baristas in canon. They're perfectly able to grok someone making a merpeople!Winchesters moodboard isn't saying they think Sam & Dean are merpeople in canon. They can grasp the idea a comic featuring female!Winchesters isn't about Sam and/or Dean's gender in canon. They're not stupified by the idea a fanvid of the Impala secretly being a transformer isn't about the canon car. They can even figure out that a fanartist who draws the Winchesters as chain smokers covered in scars and tattoos and says that's what they should look like is not depicting something present in the canon.

But ~*somehow*~ their brains just break at the idea you can enjoy imagining the characters as a sexuality they aren't in canon? Like they're clearly capable of understanding the idea of playing around with things that aren't canon when it comes to literally every other aspect of the characters, but ~*somehow*~ sexuality is different?

Is it fandom's obsession with labels as identity? Discourse brainrot maybe? Do they really think if they just pretend real hard sexuality is some special category it will magically validate their fanon as canon? Nobody could POSSIBLY want to write characters as a different sexuality than they are in canon!!!

Whatever else it is, it's definitely disingenuous as hell.

i don’t understand how you can ship wincest and say that dean is straight? i’m not mocking you, i just genuinely don’t understand your reasoning behind this

Nineteen years of this shit.

My shipping wincest = fanon

Dean is straight = canon

It's THAT simple. If you don't understand that's on YOU.

[eisforeidolon]

It's been a while since we've had one of these this blatant. They've long had a tendency to take things we've said of them that are objectively true and try to turn it around and go NO U!!! Even though it makes no damn sense - perhaps especially then.

You can't claim to be a fan and hate the entire show! When we say that? We do indeed mean the entire show - the totality of the show that actually aired, including every scene, every episode, every season. The themes every episode, every arc, every season ultimately revolved back around and that the leads and the showrunners brought up over and over and over again. When they say that? They mean their creative reinterpretation of a limited set of very specifically cherry-picked moments removed from all context they insist prove the show was really telling a super secret hidden narrative about their entirely fanon ship instead. Which the leads and showrunners repeatedly shot down or told them to enjoy in fandom because it wasn't the show's aim.

You hate a show you're still obsessed with, move on! When we say that? We're taking about how they insist literally everything about canon Dean was a performance he would outgrow by turning into a YA romance stereotype and are still desperately clinging to insane conspiracy theories to explain why the finale they loudly hated wasn't catered to them and what they insisted was the REAL focus of the show. We're talking about how they insisted TW existed to make their ship canon, and a revivial will have to focus on making their ship canon. When they say that? I guess they're just mad we actually were largely happy with how the show ended and don't buy into their bad fanfic of what should have happened, because LOL seriously. We don't hate the characters or the rest of the show that actually aired for not being something we just made up in our heads and that's just not fair, I guess? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Saying that is demeaning to the show itself and every other actor who put so much of themselves in SPN! When we say that J2 and the brothers were the center of the show? We're pointing out that someone who was in a fraction of the screen time of less than half the episodes, who the main plot arcs never revolved around? Wasn't a lead. That characters who appeared in literally single digit numbers of episodes, no matter how compelling? Were only supporting players. That Jensen and Jared literally put in above and beyond more work than everyone else in the cast for the entire fifteen year run and deserve credit for that. When they say that they weren't? Again, all I've got is that they're pissed off they can't make the brothers not be the main, ever-present focus of the show by just shouting on the internet a lot about how much they really loved their fanfic the supporting cast. Just because they tuned out for large parts of the show, especially when it was focused on the brothers and Jared/Sam, doesn't magically make those parts of the show disappear.

Hell, half of those actors put more effort and personality into their characters than [one of the "brothers" did] ... When we talk about Misha not putting effort into his character? We're talking about how he fundamentally changes his answers from con-to-con or throws out flippant nonsense, literally cribs ideas to parrot back from things fans tell him after the fact, threw away his character's actual story arc about learning to understand free will to flatten him down into a desperate tween with a crush to queerbait desperate shippers for merch/cameo/con sales, and thinks bad accents and excessive gurning are how best to differentiate between different characters. When they put down Jared's acting and efforts? It basically always comes down to, 'Wahhh, he didn't validate my ship, he's in the way of the story I wish this show was telling instead, he-he-he flares his nostrils too much! I don't like him [angry toddler stomp]!"

I mean, are they even really fooling themselves with this? Because they're sure as hell not fooling anybody else.

'you can't miss the point this badly' and then immediately afterwards 'its demeaning to say spn is about the brothers'

[eisforeidolon]

Putting aside the obligatory delusional Jared erasure, because of course that's tossed in there? Considering how many writers and showrunners SPN has had over the years, Jensen was the one with the most input over the longest period of time in creating who Dean Winchester was.

Yet somehow, weirdos like this exist. Who are convinced if they just yell the same heller fanon nonsense over and over and over again on the internet as undeniable fact, that magically makes it true! They're more of an authority on the canon character than the person who played the largest part in creating him! Even though the vast majority of what made it to screen (or didn't) was, in part, dictated by his choices, even though he directly interacted with the writers and showrunners, Jensen doesn't understand Dean! He'll have to act out their prurient fantasies in a revival because they known who Dean Winchester REALLY is! Random heller #56 says so, therefore it must be true!

The bonkers AF insistence fictional character Dean Winchester exists as some kind of separate entity desperately trying to reveal himself as the lovesick thirteen-year-old from their fanfic despite Jensen and the writers and basically everything else canon SPN is? Does not get less fucking batshit with additional repetitions.

[eisforeidolon]

They're so doggedly fixated on the idea of sex/romance as the end-all be-all utmost type of love they've completely blinded themselves to the genuinely good platonic love story at the core of Supernatural. The canon is fifteen seasons of Sam and Dean repeatedly choosing each other over everything and everyone else. Sure they have some pretty big conflicts along the way, but when it comes down to it? They always find their way back to each other because of the love they have for each other. It's exactly what those shippers say they want - just not in a romance.

Instead of appreciating that, or even just ignoring it to write their AU fanfic as fanfic? Those certain shippers spent fifteen seasons trying to meta the canon into something other than what it was. A story where Dean only stuck with Sam out of externally imposed obligation while yearning to have that level of reciprocal emotion ... from a sexual/romantic relationship ... with Castiel ... because [footage not found]. Sure, a great deal of that is just pure shipper entitlement and echo-chamber-reinforced confusion of their fanfic for canon? But there's also an element of falling into sometimes genuinely harmful cultural fallacies about life and fulfillment insisting a) you can't truly be happy without a romantic partner and b) you just have to find the right romantic partner and it'll magically fix you/your life.

If they weren't always so determined to make their shipping everyone else's problem, I could almost feel bad for them.

Sometimes I click to view the posts blocked as containing Destiel and then I just want to scream at the sky...

They didn't need to "let dean be bi" to have any of these things because you know that Dean was loved by someone who literally sacrificed the whole world for him, someone who truly loved, cherished, and worshiped him. And that someone was Sam.

[eisforeidolon]

[eisforeidolon]

I'm still just boggling over this and wondering if any other group of thwarted shippers of a fanon ship have gone to these kinds of lengths in terms of projecting onto unrelated shows. Like, is this just where you end up when you spend so much time trying to create nonexistent connections out of utterly random shit? Or is it something specifically in the water with hellers?

They're at the point of insisting the choices for a completely unrelated television character, on a show with an entirely different cast/crew/writing staff, airing on a unrelated network, with a very dissimilar cast and story configuration, based in entirely different genres ... is some kind of Very Important Reason to believe there will be an SPN revival that randomly makes Dean bisexual and in lurve with the angel. There is no way in which that makes any sense, like, even in comparison to their usual level of sense.

The thing is, even if you put aside the nonsense about D/C, this isn't even proof the writers of 911 "recognize Buddie and want it to happen". One half of a popular slash ship being canonically attracted to another male character is not an automatic indication they are or will be attracted to the other half of a fan ship (or the other half of the ship will be attracted to them). Even if the writers specifically decided to do a coming out storyline for Buck because of the fandom (to at least some extent)? That does not mean they intend to make the ship itself happen. Maybe they do - or will decide to in the future - but that would actually involve writing a storyline leading up to it, not just fan entitlement and assumptions.

While we're at it, there's also a world of difference between a show where TPTB see something in fandom and think, 'Oh, hey, I could totally see that fitting in with what we're doing, let's go for it!' and a show where TPTB have seen a thing in fandom and made it repeatedly clear, 'Hey, it's good you're having fun out there, but that's not the story we are telling here.' They don't owe you to write your ideas because you yell a lot on the internet - it's a tv show, not a commissioned fanfic.

But they wouldn't be hellers if they weren't trying to call two arbitrary unrelated things a parallel, making wild assumptions about what writers MUST be thinking because because, and declaring TPTB and the universe at large owe them specific ships being canon.

Yep, the revival will so be about bi Dean and destiel. 🙄

Why can't hellers write fanfic like the rest of us?