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[ORV] More Han Myungoh posting

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as my dear mutual @tls12lessthan3 has elaborated on many times before, the text of orv itself has something of an issue with treating kim dokja in homophobic ways, whether in outright gay jokes, or in more subtle ways, like implying that he is too feminine or is bad at being a man. this sort of treatment is not exclusive to him -- he and yoo joonghyuk are the main recipients. and since the text itself does also have a different man who gets pregnant, it's rather unsurprising that the fanbase would, rather than look at it critically, take both topics and run with them.

the treatment of mpreg in fanbases is not exclusive to orv. I don't mean to suggest that people who discuss it in these ways are responsible for these ideas, and I certainly don't want to single out the people involved. I do, however, think that the recent mpreg poll that has put yjh on its list (for those of you unaware, there's a poll going around discussing which fictional men should get pregnant) has provided a pretty good case study for how people generally talk about the subject in the fanbase.

my questions for the fanbase are:

1. saying these sorts of things about a female character would rightly get you called out for being misogynistic. why does the fanbase consider this kind of thing acceptable when applied to men who can get pregnant?

2. why does the relative "femininity" of these characters justify discussing them as tradwives, barefoot and pregnant, "fixed" by pregnancy, and so on?

3. do you think obtaining children fixes characters? or do you only think that when it applies to pregnancy specifically?

4. do you think that male pregnancy is a purely fantastical scenario? do you think treating it as such might be something that is noticed by trans people in the fandom? do you think that the depiction of a male body capable of pregnancy might be reflective of any real-world schools of thought around how people treat bodies that are capable of pregnancy?

again, these sentiments are not exclusive to the users who express them in these screenshots. I've seen a lot of mpreg content around orv that discusses the topic very similarly.

there is a common argument that subjecting men to misogyny subverts patriarchy. that argument falls apart instantly if you do look at how patriarchy enforces masculinity. the feminized man is considered a target -- of jokes, of physical and sexual violence, and (most critically to these screenshots and this overall discussion) a target of the idea that he is not deserving of bodily autonomy and that he must be subservient to others. this is done to enforce the dominance of the "masculine" man as an ideal in a patriarchial system.

this problem is multiplied tenfold by the fact that these characters are east asian men, and are therefore subject to forms of racism that view them as automatically effeminate compared to men of other races, particularly white men. this in my opinion is responsible for a huge swathe of content that is interested in intensifying the text's already present issues with portraying kim dokja as effeminate. it's a recurring issue I've noted in the fandom.

these combined factors have rendered users on this site alarmingly comfortable with suggesting ideas that evoke the attitude of a 1950s misogynist talking about a woman they consider too uppity. they need to be pregnant, or be someone's arm candy, or to be someone's submissive partner, etc. etc. all this while allegedly talking about them as cisgender, but, in depicting them as capable of pregnancy, very much evoke real-world attitudes and concepts around how people think about transgender men.

if this was limited to strictly pregnancy fetish content, and kept properly tagged and limited to nsfw spaces, I would absolutely still have an issue with it, but I'm disgusted and annoyed at how often these sorts of attitudes just seem to be mainstreamed in any discussion of orv. the poll, while operating as a decent case study, reflects a lot of attitudes i have seen out in the wild just as a matter of completely accepted modes of thought around these characters. even when not discussing mpreg in particular, there is a serious attitude with assigning effeminacy to kim dokja and sometimes yoo joonghyuk, and an even more serious issue of that perceived effeminacy spurring on nasty jokes about them, their bodies, and their relationship.

as a fanbase, I think we have to do much better in how we handle these ideas. it's making the fandom an outright nasty place to be if, like me, you notice the racist/bioessentialist/homophobic undertones of common discussions and opinions about the characters. I don't often engage in criticism of the fanbase at large on my account because i usually block and move on if something annoys me, but it's reaching such a critical mass that I felt like it was necessary to say something!

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HOMESTUCK WARNING!!

So like Anna Croft and Yoo Joonghyuk had like. A kismesis thing going on. Right. All those regressions spent being little haters and simultaneously being the only ones the other could understand… yeah ok I know your quadrant.

Meanwhile YHK is in a constant state of vacillation.

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thinking about how we know kim dokja has always been dissociating and how that led him to create a rift between him and his companions by never allowing himself to think he was truly a friend . and we also know the fourth wall is a manifestation of this. but also thinking about how its used to show just how far removed kdj is. idk if anyone else agrees but when u think about it , isnt using the fourth wall on someone, especially a friend, a violation of their privacy and autonomy? if u had the choice would u read ur friends thoughts ? would u control their actions ? would u watch them in secret ? would u allow urself to think u are so inherently far removed from the people who choose to be with u that u would do that ?

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bihyung dokja

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been pondering a reading of orv in which kdj is a trans woman.

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Benevolent dissociation

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What's in your heart, Kim Dokja?

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na bori wicked fan real??!!!?

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“One more dance?” “Of course. I wish for this waltz to never end.”

Inspired by @/miilkcandies beautiful sequence of art! I fell in love with the storytelling and paneling in that piece :) Please check it out if you haven't already!

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Domestic Bliss

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i love characters who are always like fear not, i shall take care of this problem for you….. by sacrificing myself!! and everyone else is like i swear to god if you pull this shit again i’ll kill you

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confused as to why people are getting soooo pissed off at the orv film being called the prophet?? like, yeah kdj isnt a prophet but he calls himself one for a substantial amount of time, like, a film long amount of time yknow? i dont think it's gonna be a GREAT adaptation but i think saying its utter dogshit based on the title alone is , strange

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ugghhgvb orv why do ddoddnbsebd. beelelehsgsbs

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it can be so easy to hate Kim Dokja but sadly ORV is from his pov so you can get a feel of his thought process and it’s suddenly harder to hate him

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orv spoilers

BIHYUNG NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHGGHG