immaturityofthomasastruc

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

You think the show's finally going to address Marinette's problem of constantly leaving Chat in the dark about everything?

Also, before a Marinette Zealot or adrien salter starts bitching and moaning in the comments, This is not about weather chat is "Incompetent" or not this is specifically about her refusing to tell him anything that involves him specifically, Important shut that could have gone horribly wrong without him being in the know, or her just pointlessly leaving him in the dark, despite the fact that telling him would have actually been helpful at the time.

What's weird is that Marinette's arc in Season 4 ultimately ended with her resolving to be more open with Cat Noir... before going back on that at the end of Season 5.

And take it from someone who was on Marinette's side during Season 4 when I say there's a difference between keeping Cat Noir from learning top-secret Guardian information and not updating him about things she's learned about the enemy.

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

It’s weird that the show claims Ms Bustier tried to help Chloe …

…yet all she did was tell Marinette that she needed to be a “good example” for Chloe to learn from as if it’s her job as class rep to guide her with her issues, not Madame Bustier's.

Now there’s nothing wrong with Marinette helping Chloe change, but claiming that Bustier tried to help  Chloe by having somebody that she hates (for reasons unknown) do the work for her is like sating Chloe tried to do her homework by making Sabrina do it.

Here's a fun little story related to this ask.

Before I started this blog, I went to college to learn to become a teacher. I dropped out thanks to complications from the pandemic, but I still managed to complete two years. One of the introductory education classes I took had a lecture on ways to treat students. The professor said that a teacher shouldn't single out any students in a positive or negative way, meaning you can't put someone on a pedestal or be extra strict to someone.

In other words, something Ms. Bustier does that was depicted as a sign she's a great teacher is one of the first things I was told NOT to do when learning to be a teacher.

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

I just realized right now that the fact that André taught Chloe that cheating in fine implies that he probably cheated to win the elections

Nope, according to the show, Chloe is the only corrupt one and Andre was a great man. Just ignore how Ms. Bustier was portrayed as a far better mayor by turning Paris into a borderline utopia at the end of Season 5.

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

"Just wait until Polymouse is the one who ultimately takes Lila down in Season 12 while Ladybug takes credit for it."

since the show considers the s5 finale as Marinette "winning," we'll probably have to wait and see what the writers' definition of defeating a villain is at that time before we can make any surefire guesses

Hey, there's always a chance it could happen.

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

Honestly i'm pretty sure we could excuse Alya not believing Marinette about Lila when it comes down to the ladybug Lie, since outside of the fact the Writers themselves seemingly have forgotten in it or have at best put some of what Lila said into question, Marinette herself hasn't mentioned it at all.

Plus Lila only brought up that lie maybe once or twice during the early seasons, which chronologically would have been several months ago and given everything that has happened since then it makes sense Alya and Marinette would have forgotten that out of everything.

I suppose that's a decent point. I don't think the show's referenced anything past Season 1.

I guess the bigger problem I have is that the show wants to have Alya continue to believe Lila even becoming's Marinette's condidant.

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

....did Adrien ever found out Marinette was the one who made the scarf for his birthday and not his father?

Nope. Some people think it was clever foreshadowing for the finale. I am not one of those people.

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

saw jessica keynes proclaimed as "good native rep" when she's one of many examples of miraculous and astruc's casual racism and stereotyping poc cultures...feelsbadman

To me, I'd say the issue is less with Jess herself and more with the backstory of the Eagle Miraculous and the implications it brings up.

Besides, I know a character who's worse Native American representation than Jess will ever be.

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

Honestly, I feel like the class lost the "They're not responsible for helping Chloe," argument the moment Marinette claim they all "try to help" Chloe.

It's basically Schrodinger's kindness. The characters either did everything they could to help Chloe or they act like they never tried to help her.

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

I think the reason why some people say Cinder is better than Lila (garbage vs trash) is because Cinder doesn’t make everyone dumber (almost impossible to make rwby characters dumber than they are) and the show to a extent admits Cinder is a moron unlike Lila which is shown as this genius despite her plans being Convoluted or filled with holes big enough for me to drive a truck through

Cinder doesn’t manipulate people, she just threatens to kill then if they don’t comply (Roman and Adam) and the characters she tricks are already very dumb to begin with (Raven “I hate having the super cool power of turning into a bird” Branwen) and the ones she betrays are people who wouldn’t expect someone betraying them for such petty and stupid reasons (Watts and Neo) and the show kinda acknowledges this

Basically:the difference is how cinder’s character doesn’t ruin others with her sole presence and at least the show admits she’s stupid, unlike miraculous pretending Lila is like Toffee from svtfoe

It also didn't take years for Cinder to get powers that allowed her to hold her own against the heroes.

And even if it took until Volume 8 to get it, we still have a backstory for Cinder, unlike Lila.

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

Found this on Facebook, wether it's real or not it makes me think how hypocritical the fans are given that Marinette was in a relationship with Luka and still attempted to be with Adrien, she had a romantic dance with him and she even cried in the ground saying "I love you" as Adrien left

We really needed a scene like this in both "Truth" and "Lies".

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

IOTA Reviews: Ladybug and Cat Noir: The Movie

Once again, I'd just like to apologize for the lack of activity the past few months. The holidays have kept me busy, especially at work, and I've officially decided to go back to school next month. Don't get me wrong, one of my new year's resolutions is to at least try getting back to consistently working on this blog, which is one of the reasons why I'm going to tackle She-Ra in the future. Either way, I'd like to thank you for supporting me this past year even though I haven't been as active as I should be.

When I heard Miraculous Ladybug was getting a movie, I didn't really pay too much attention to the news due to all of the side projects that have been canceled left and right, but then I saw the trailer. It looked decent, and while I had issues with the animation, I was willing to give it a shot since Astruc wasn't on the writing team. Then the movie came out, and while it got mixed reviews, this was how a lot of people in the fandom saw it after suffering through Season 5.

Yeah, a lot of fans hold this movie in high regard. It's nothing as groundbreaking as other animated films that came out the same year like Across the Spider-Verse and Nimona, but for a Miraculous Ladybug project, it turned out pretty well. That is, except for the brief schism it caused in the fandom. While it's mostly subsided, when the movie came out, there was a debate on which handled the story better, the movie or the show. As always, fandom arguments tend to get complicated, and things only got worse when Thomas Astruc himself decided to throw his hat in the ring by claiming that the show he worked on was better.

Yes, even though fans enjoy a movie based on his characters, because he isn't the one who made it, Astruc thinks his version is better. Just remember, he tweeted this about a month after “Derision” premiered. I feel like that speaks for itself.

Thankfully, the argument has died down for the most part, though there's still discussions on which is the better version. Before I really get into the movie, I just want to remind everyone reading this that my opinion shouldn't be taken as fact. I am not the authority on what people should like, and I don't want anyone to use my review as an excuse to bully other people online for having a different opinion on the movie. While I've made jokes about the show's decline in quality, the show and movie both have their own strengths and weaknesses, and we should be able to discuss them.

With all that out of the way, let's get into Ladybug & Cat Noir: The Movie

Just to be clear, I'm not going to tackle this like my usual reviews. Instead, I'm going to break this review into three sections: what I liked, what I didn't like, and what I'm mixed on.

Things I liked

For one thing, the characterization is pulled off very well. None of the characters are really as annoying or incompetent like they were in the show's later seasons. Part of what I think makes it work is that there's more focus on character arcs that have to be completed by the end of the film. Marinette has to learn to step up as a hero, Adrien has to learn humility while dealing with the loss of his mother, and Gabriel struggles to resist the allure of villainy.

Marinette's anxiety is more pronounced in this movie, especially since in this continuity, Chloe is just starting to harass her, so she's not used to this kind of treatment. While Chloe is a minor antagonist in the civilian plotline, the biggest threat to Marinette when she's not Ladybug is her own self-doubt. Her status as an outcast is used to add to Marinette's lack of confidence in herself. The whole reason she even meets Adrien here is because she tried to hide from Chloe in the library, and she was too nervous to really speak up to Adrien. Hell, the first time she transforms into Ladybug, it's only because Tikki forced her to transform.

I like how Marinette's insecurities transition into her origin as Ladybug, where she's put in a situation where she has to take charge and be more confident. She still gets frustrated with her situation and her new partner's ego (more on that in a minute), but she struggles to really get her head in the game at first compared to how things were in “Origins”. It makes her development into the confident hero we're all familiar with feel more natural, as the climax of the movie shows her fully asserting herself as the protector of Paris and a beacon of hope for those to look up to.

Adrien is also handled very well here. As much as I liked “Origins”, I have to admit it didn't really do much with him as a character. With the exception of wasting his first Cataclysm, he just goes about the two-parter like it's another day at the office for him. That's why I'm a huge fan of the movie actually giving him stuff to do. Unlike the show, his arrogance is shown in a more negative light and is shown to be a major character flaw he needs to overcome. Nobody tries to excuse or deny his actions, and he learns how to become a better person.

This is what makes his dynamic with Ladybug so interesting. For their first battle together, he's overconfident and assumes that he's the leader, even though he's just as new at this as Ladybug is. The two trade insults and bicker while fighting their Akuma and even when they meet Master Fu afterwards. While Cat Noir does fall for Ladybug, Marinette still isn't open to it, not because she loves someone else, but more because she finds him to be unbelievably annoying. She doesn't really hate him the same way she does Chloe. It's more like that one coworker you can't stand but have to tolerate regardless.

Both Ladybug and Cat Noir help the other improve as they gain each other's respect. Ladybug gains more confidence in order to keep Cat Noir from bossing her around, while Cat Noir becomes more humble to become a better hero. Eventually, Cat Noir reverses his position and assumes he's the sidekick, only for Ladybug to deny that claim and declare that the two are partners. This statement also reflects how both of them are responsible for saving the day in the end. While Adrien ultimately reaches through to his father, Ladybug saves Adrien and repairs the damage caused by Hawkmoth. Both played a role that was instrumental in the climax, and neither one feels ignored by the narrative.

Another character who really got a much needed revamp is Chloe. Yes, she's still Marinette's primary bully, but it's more downplayed than in later seasons. She stays a challenge exclusive to Marinette's civilian life instead of trying to be a challenge to Ladybug. The closest thing she does to opposing the heroes is kick Cat Noir off a runaway Ferris wheel out of fear, and even then, she gets her comeuppance through Ladybug throwing her in a dumpster while saving her. Chloe is also much smarter than in canon, being able to read the room to mask her emotions and maintain her image or to prey on someone's insecurities if they get in her way. Don't get me wrong, she's still a source of comic relief, but the movie treats her slightly more seriously than canon does.

Speaking of comic relief, here's something that I think made this Chloe better than the one seen in the show: The jokes were actually funny. Yeah, it's not laugh out loud, but I like how rather than make jokes about how immature and stupid Chloe is, her jokes are focused more on her own ego and self-image. Well, that, and wanting to kick Marinette's ass. I'm not making this up. Chloe in this movie threatens Marinette several times, and it's honestly amazing.

She unironically put the fear of God in Marinette's eyes in her first scene alone.

I also like how they handle her role as a love rival to Marinette. Unlike the show, Chloe and Adrien never interact, and it's implied that this continuity won't use the childhood friends element introduced in Season 2. It's a good way to show the difference between her and Marinette, how for all her boasting, Chloe doesn't know Adrien the way Marinette gets to know him.

Gabriel is easily the best part of the movie. This version is more fleshed out compared to the show. Rather than flip-flop between sympathetic and pure evil, the movie leans more on the sympathetic side for Gabriel's character. His very first scene shows the grief he's going through while thinking about Emilie, and Keith Silverstein gets to show off more emotions than just over the top sociopathy. You understand why he chooses to become a supervillain, but you want to see him get better, making for a very somber character. I especially love the delivery of the line where he finally gives in and transforms for the first time.

Gabriel: If chaos is the way, I will burn the world and lose myself in the flames to do so!

That line has no right to go as hard as it does.

We see him descend more into villainy as his appearance becomes more disheveled. Despite claiming to care for his son, the Gabriel and Adrien don't interact until the 70-minute mark. By the time the two do talk, Gabriel looks like a mess compared to how he looked at the beginning.

I really like this writing decision, as it highlights the distant relationship between the two, and how being Hawkmoth has only made things worse for Gabriel. Seeing Gabriel finally realize how unhealthy his coping mechanisms have been when he learns Adrien is Cat Noir is a satisfying scene, as it feels like a natural way to put an end to his arc. Compared to canon where he wins and never really feels bad for what he did, this version of Gabriel is far more remorseful at the sight of his son battered and bruised and breaks down sobbing. Remember, this was the version Astruc said we “wanted” and not the one we “needed”.

As for the Miraculous, things were changed to better fit the story, and I like most of what they did. I like how there's more focus on the teamwork between Ladybug and Cat Noir. Their Miraculous don't just grant a wish when used together. They literally become stronger when the two work together, and it makes a lot of sense. I like how the teamwork aspect is rewarded in-universe, because it shows how the heroes can do more than create and destroy stuff. I also think the addition of a call function on their Miraculous makes perfect sense, and clears up a ton of potential communication errors.

The fight scenes are also pretty creative. There's a lot of focus on using the environment to fight the Akumas. The very first fight has Ladybug and Cat Noir defeat the Akuma by letting a train hit it, and the second major fight involves a Ferris wheel going out of control. This leads to more varied action and well choreographed fight scenes. I especially like how with the exception of the Mime (and a brief reference to the Bubbler and Guitar Villain), all of the Akumas are brand-new, so older fans don't know what to expect with these guys.

This level of action also extends to the climax. Hawkmoth uses an Akuma on himself, sending out a massive flock of butterflies. You'd think it'd be like this movie's take on “Heroes' Day”, right? Nope! Instead, the Akumas become tiny attack drones that swarm over Paris like the eight plague of Egypt. I don't know how the animators managed to make an army of purple butterflies menacing, but by God, they did it.

Speaking of animators, my thoughts on the animation have changed drastically. While I still have minor gripes with the character design, I still love how the city of Paris is brought to life, making it seem more populated than in the show. I never really held the limited amount of civilians against the animators in the show, but I'm so happy we can see this show's environment on a cinematic budget. The animation is another reason why I think the action works so well in this movie.

Things I didn't like

When it comes to the changes to the Miraculous, one thing I'm not a fan of is Ladybug not getting her Lucky Charm. It misses the point of her having the power of creation. Yeah, she still has the spotted vision thing she had in the show, but it takes away what made the way she defeats Akumas interesting. She doesn't just beat them into submission. Sometimes, she outsmarts them or reasons with them, and part of the fun with the Lucky Charm is seeing just how she'll use something like a coat hanger or an old football trophy to defeat them.

I also don't like this movie's take on the Butterfly Miraculous. The very first scene has Master Fu build it up as an evil artifact capable of turning people into monsters. Remember, “Origins” established the Butterfly as something capable of creating superheroes, a power Gabriel twisted to create villains instead. Hell, I hate this rule, but the Paris Special made it clear that Miraculous can be used for good or evil, and it all depends on how the power is used. In other words, Miraculous don't kill people, people kill people. Bottom line, I prefer the idea of the Butterfly being the same as the other Miraculous, with the user and intent making it evil.

The one character who I felt the movie absolutely misrepresented was Plagg. This version of the character has none of the heart he had in the show. Yes, Plagg was crass there too, but he had just as many scenes showing how he cared for Adrien like a little brother or a nephew. He was Adrien's primary confidant and wanted to help him however he could. Even bad Plagg-centric episodes like “Kuro Neko” or “The Kwamis' Choice” made it clear he wants what's best for Adrien and is capable of coming up with plans if they'll help him.

Here, Plagg is mostly just there to make snide comments and fart a lot. Say what you will about the show, but at least it didn't make Plagg farting into a running gag. Plagg only gets a handful of lines in the entire movie, to the point where even Tom has more lines than he does. Tikki gets plenty of scenes with Marinette and an entire song, while Plagg feels like an afterthought.

Things I'm mixed on

This might be a little controversial, but I have mixed feelings on the portrayal of the Love Square as a whole in this movie. Don't get me wrong, the Ladynoir scenes are great, but there's not as many Adrienette, Ladrien, or Marichat scenes. In fact, I don't think there were any Ladrien or Marichat scenes in this movie, which is weird. I can at least excuse those, but it's weird how little Adrienette scenes there are. Not counting the masks, they only have four major scenes together before the end, and one of those is a deleted scene that had the dialogue cut over a montage.

While I'm glad the entire movie wasn't about the Love Square drama, the romance between Marinette and Adrien specifically feels a little rushed. I think it would have benefited the movie to have ten or fifteen more minutes to flesh out this subplot a little instead of only focusing on Ladynoir.

I'm also unsure what to say about the songs. Most of them are pretty catchy and have great visuals, but the dissonance between the singing voices of Marinette and Adrien throws me off. I don't get why neither actor for the French or English dub was asked to sing. For some reason, Tikki and Gabriel's voice actors got to sing, but not Marinette and Adrien. At the very least, Drew Ryan Scott's singing voice sort of sounds like Adrien, but Lou's singing voice makes Marinette sound twice her age. Don't get me wrong, I still liked the songs, but this choice was very jarring to me.

And now, because literally nobody asked for it, here's every song in the movie ranked.

8. If I Believed in Me

A very dull “I want” song that's just Marinette wandering around Paris on the way to school. Compared to “Little Town” from Beauty and the Beast, where you can easily follow Belle and understand how she goes about her day, it's not clear what kind of route Marinette is taking. Even the lyrics are pretty bland, just talking about wanting to follow her dreams and be more confident. The issue is that her dreams of being a fashion designer barely factor into the plot, and she only becomes more confident thanks to being a superhero, something she didn't dream of. The only real dud in the soundtrack.

7. Opening Remix

Not much to say here. It's a remix of the opening theme with the new singers. It sounds nice.

6. Reaching Out

This is a much better song than “If I Believed in Me”. It does a great job expressing Marinette's doubt and how she feels pressured to be somebody she's not. Great way to follow up on her heart getting broken by Adrien.

5. My Lady

This one's a quickie, but it's still fun. I love the visuals in this one and how it gradually crescendos, reflecting the new feelings Cat Noir has for Ladybug developing.

4. Stronger Together

Surprisingly, Ladybug and Cat Noir's only duet in the movie, but it's still really good. I love the use of the set in the theater Cat Noir took Ladybug to at the beginning before they run around Paris. The lyrics do a great job showing how far the two's relationship has come, making it clear how close they are, only for reality to metaphorically kick them out of the sky.

3. You Are Ladybug

Another duet, this time between Marinette and Tikki. While I still think Cristina Vee should have gotten to sing this one song given her chemistry with Mela Lee, Lou still does a great job expressing her anxiety. The back and forth between Tikki and Marinette makes this a blast to watch, especially with it using the same music as the theme song. Even the rap part with Tikki was fun to watch. I especially love the part where Tikki excitedly tells Marinette about how dangerous the job is and how close she'll come to getting killed.

2. Chaos Will Reign Today

The villain song in this movie had no right to be as good as it is. The visuals are eerie and fit the more menacing tone of the song. Keith Silverstein gives his all to make up for his crime of singing the Hawkmoth Rap. It's also a hell of a lot better than the villain song Disney had to offer that year.

1. Courage in Me

Easily my favorite song in the movie. The visuals of Marinette struggling to hop across these black spots symbolizing her yo-yo before her transformation into Ladybug is awe-inspiring. The lyrics are a great way to solidify Marinette embracing her role as Ladybug, and it's such a triumphant song to listen to.

Other things I noticed

During the first Akuma fight, Ladybug and Cat Noir pass by some guys with stereotypical French accents while almost every other character speaks like they're in America.

Careless Whisper plays one time in Cat Noir's mind as he develops feelings for Ladybug. The fact that he listens to it after getting his heart broken has to be one of the most subtle jokes I've ever seen in this franchise. Of course, it's clear what the best superhero cover of Careless Whisper really is.

Cat Noir says he has the power of destruction in his introduction while being impressed when Master Fu says the same thing.

There's a Volkswagon tie-in that actually features the two heroes promoting some cars in-universe. This is a real shot from the movie.

I think Chloe ships Alyanette, judging from this exchange:

Marinette: Seriously, Alya, you think Adrien would say yes?

Alya: Of course! I'm gonna ask Nino.

Chloe: I think you should go together, 'cause Adrien is coming with me, not with some baker girl.

I don't think Ladybug ever learned Cat Noir could play the piano, so seeing Cat Noir try to woo her with a little piano number is a nice inclusion.

When Cat Noir's mask is destroyed in the final battle, his exposed eye is still green. Was this where the chibi shorts got the idea from?

Other people have pointed this out, but the picture of Adrien as a kid is traced from a character from The Boss Baby. That's an automatic ten point deduction for making me remember that movie exists.

The post-credits scene with Nathalie was weird.

Did Master Fu not know he lost the Peacock Miraculous too?

Why isn't Emilie in any form of suspended animation?

Is the Peacock still damaged?

Did the Peacock still kill her/send her into a coma?

Was Adrien still created by the Peacock?

Why didn't Gabriel use the Peacock or at least consider it?

Did Gabriel forget to tell anyone about the other Miraculous he has after turning himself in?

Why did Gabriel choose to tell Nathalie when she didn't seem to help him while he was still Hawkmoth?

Final Thoughts

Overall, this was a really good movie, and a fresh take on the show's universe. I had issues with it, but I still think this movie series has promise. The animation was great, the songs were catchy, and the characterization was on point for the most part. It even manages to be a better musical than the ones big names like Disney and Warner Bros have made in the past two years. It's one of the best things to come out of the franchise, no question. I wouldn't mind future installments set in this continuity over whatever Season 6 churns out.

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

Closing asks for now

I've got a huge backlog, and I think I'll be more focused on the movie review if I take a break from accepting new asks for a week or two.

Once the movie review is posted and the inbox is cleared, I'll reopen asks.

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

I'm just going to reblog this for, uh... therapeutic reasons.

I think a lot of us need it after the "London" Special.

This is what happened to Gabriel after his death. Change my mind.

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

Re:The Alya believing Lila thing

Yeah S5 definitely started with a checklist of 'Cool things to have happen' and then they were all force fed into episodes no matter the logic or sense of it.

YMMV on 'cool'.

It's the biggest indicator that Season 5 was meant to be the last season, so that's why they went all out before learning they got picked up for more seasons.

Same thing happened with Power Rangers In Space.

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

I found it ironic that after watching Derision, the writers would expect me to blame Chloe for 'traumatizing Marinette which made her a stalker' and that 'Chloe's trauma doesn't excuse her mistreating pelple'.

It's laughable at best, what lesson am I suppose to learn exactly? That I can excuse Marinette's behavior but not Chloe's?

Not to mention, Marinette has 0 problems teaming up with Chloe to sabotage Kagami's date with Adrien. Ironically making the beloved protagonist a hypocrite in the process, heck, in the end of Animaestro, Marintte didn't learn her lesson that she is in the wrong, and it's just a lesson of not having to believe that Chloe could pull off a plan. Classy.

Look, no matter how you feel about her as a character, what Chloe did was still wrong, and she should be held accountable for her actions.

The issue, like you said, is that the show says trauma doesn't excuse Chloe's behavior while also saying trauma does excuse Marinette's behavior. If Marinette at least tried to be better or had issues with sabotage, it'd justify the show's stance and her status as a foil to Chloe, but like you also said, she has no problems with screwing other people over if they get in the way of her precious Adrien.

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

I just can't see Chloe going to a public school willingly. She's too... Is pompous the word?

My personal theory is that the closest private school doesn't have anyone who will cater to the Bourgeois' demands the same way the teachers we see do.

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

Sort of not TA Related, but how do you feel about the argument against using gabriel's actions during Chat Blanc and Ephemeral as proof of him being a Abusive father since they were reset at the end of the episode?

Personally, I think they should be accounted for since the fact he willingly chose the abuse/trauma out route twice speaks volumes, especially with Chat Blanc now occurring only a handful of months after origins due to the one year retcon.

I'd say I agree with it.

Even if the other characters don't remember those episodes, the audience does. There was nothing done to indicate that Gabriel was acting out of character or that there was something wrong with him, so most fans just saw him being an abusive parent and causing the world to end as a result.