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[justyourtypicaltuesday]

Can Roman Mythology give us insight into who Orange is?

(Note: To minimize confusion, I will be differentiating between historical/mythological figures and their Sanders Sides counterparts by coloring each mention of a Side in their respective color.)

Ever since the fact that three (or four, depending on definition) of the known Sides have names rooted in Roman mythology was brought to my attention, I've been meaning to do my research and explore how this could hint at the next plot point- and given my recent fascination with WTIT, I thought giving my thoughts on Orange theories couldn't hurt.

If you didn't already know, Virgil is named after the famous Roman poet because Joan and Thomas wanted his name to fit with Roman, like Logan and Patton's go together as Logos and Pathos. In addition to this, Remus was named after the Roman myth of Romulus and Remus, in which two princes disagreed on how to found Rome and Romulus had Remus killed. And most intriguing of all, Janus is named after the Roman god of doors, duality, beginnings, transitions and famously has two heads (which the half-human, half-snake face is reminiscent of).

While this is all very intriguing, I started doing research into these Roman myths to explore possibilities for Orange's character. So, I started by looking at other Roman deities closely related to Janus, and two names came up repeatedly, Juno and Diana. Juno is the Roman equivalent of the Greek goddess Hera, and Diana the same for Artemis. Juno and Janus in particular have a strong relationship, often working together to bring in a new month with a new moon. The epithet Juno Covella- to "oversee, help and protect the moon during difficult labors," and that during these rituals Juno "had the function of aiding and strengthening the moon / when her force was supposed to be at its lowest." Additionally, in Virgil's "The Aeneid"; the protagonist Aeneas has to flee Rome because of a storm Juno created. He's led to Carthage, which is historically Rome's sworn enemy, but he starts to grow an attachment to the people there. While the rest of the story (which I've spared for the sake of brevity) may be a concerning parallel to Virgil's character development, the main character having to flee his home for its rival is a dead ringer for his story, and in this comparison, Rome would be the Others. If Rome was home of the Others, Juno would be one of them, and therefore could realistically be a contender for Orange.

Depending on the source, Janus and Diana (sometimes called Jana) are a pair of deities, or Janus is the son of Trivia, an epithet of Diana. Either way, the two are closely linked. Given Diana's equivalent to Artemis, she is associated with hunting and the wild. However, something particularly interesting about Diana is she is sometimes referred to as a "triple goddess" - referring to three aspects of herself. Diana the Huntress, Diana the Moon, and Diana of the Underworld. Virgil often would call Diana by the name Trivia in his works- referring to three-way crossroads. In legends associated with Diana, she is shown to have the power to assign and rearrange authority, and is heavily associated with a woody grove named Lake Nemi. She was even sometimes worshipped as "Diana of the Wood". Given the WTIT endcard completely centred around a tree, this makes for an interesting observation...

And if you think I'm reading too much into things here, maybe you're right. But during this research, I found that Virgil is an anglicization of what was most likely originally Vergilius or Virgilius. This being Virgil's original name would fit with the naming convention of Janus and Remus, and there's evidence Virgil was mocked for his name sounding like virgin. Sound familiar?

"Shouldn't it be something like Virgin?"

I'm not saying that my theories are flawless, or even likely. In fact, Thomas has no obligation to continue the theme of Roman mythology in characterizing the Sides. But given the current pattern, I wanted to take a stab at what a possible Orange inspired by Roman myth could be. And here's my answer:

- Name beginning with C or D to continue the trend of naming each side with a unique letter.

- A "last resort" - a push of energy to get through a difficult, desperate situation.

- A metaphorical hunter, a "tamer of the wild". A calculated aim and precise with delicately honed skill.

- Assigns authority and place. Possibly responsible for assigning the Duke and the Prince, and who is regarded as a Light or Dark Side.

- A guide through difficult crossroads and a bringer of well-meaning change, often in partnership with Janus.

- Symbols of the moon, lakes, trees, and the underworld.

Take what I've said with a pinch of salt, as this is mostly the result of a few Google searches and internet rabbit holes late at night. I am not a historian and I'll never claim to be one, but it doesn't mean I can't have some fun and learn something in the process.

[justyourtypicaltuesday]

Even though I'm a much more recent addition to the fander family, I couldn't have said it better myself. Happy Birthday Thomas, and thank you. Your work means so much to so many of us, and I hope you can continue doing what you do for a long time to come.

Happy birthday Thomas Sanders!!!

I first got into Thomas's content back around 2016/2017 when he was on vine, and when he began his Sanders Sides series. Him and his content have held a very special place in my life and my heart, and Sanders Sides is always gonna be a huge interest and favorite for me. His content has helped me get through some really bad times in my life, and he is to this day one of my favorite content creators.

Love you so much Thomas, I hope you've head a great birthday!

@thatsthat24

[justyourtypicaltuesday]

Considering I've made only two posts two weeks apart, 10 reblogs is a big milestone to start this blog off with. Thank you, especially to @dustylogicalityrat - your kind words mean everything to a new fander. Going forward, I'm going to schedule a few theory posts and try to blog more often as a thank you. And also because what did I make this blog for if I'm not going to use it?

An addition to my Logan speculation

I swear I have other theories, but I was thinking and noticed something else from my favourite episode (WTIT) that ties in with my last post.

In the end card, Logan says:

"I suppose this isn't the worst distraction Thomas could have."

That quote's been rattling around my head for a while, and I think I've figured out why. Using the series' own logic (pun sort-of-intended?), distractions have their uses: when Thomas can't reasonably do anything in the moment to solve the problem, and when Thomas is overwhelmed with intrusive thoughts and needs a break to reset.

However, by the end of the episode, Remus leaves. This means that Thomas logically should tell Nico he's busy, schedule to hang out another time, and finish cleaning his apartment. But he doesn't do this. So why is Logan accepting an illogical conclusion?

I think it comes back to self-doubt. We've seen before that a side can lose confidence in their opinions over what Thomas should do. In fact, we've now seen every other core side do this. Roman in Selfishness V Selflessness, Patton in DWIT and SvS Redux, and Virgil earliest of all in AA.

So, it's Logan's turn. Going forward, we might see Logan react in a similar way to the others when they've experienced this before. Being more hesitant to share their opinion, relying more on supporting points by others and doubting if what they believe really is true.

I find it hard to believe that Logan's objective has changed so quickly. He's been solidly established as putting Thomas' health first, more-so the way of supporting what he needs over what he wants. This contrasts with the other sides, most of all Patton and Roman, who mostly act on Thomas' desires.

That means that Logan is either in the process of re-evaluating his position on the matter, or, more likely, is suppressing his thoughts and, in a way, lying to the others.

This is where my theory comes in. I've already explained that I believe a Janus v Logan conflict is coming, and Logan lying is the perfect setup for that. What is even more interesting is that it's becoming more and more likely that this conflict is going to come from a Janus-sympathetic standpoint.

In conclusion, Logan's doubting himself and learning to hide his opinions and this is most likely going to be used as ammunition for Janus to have solid ground to stand on in the finale. I am a strong believer that Janus has a larger plan for the sides, with honest intentions to improve Thomas' life in a way the core sides will protest against, but that's a conversation for another day.

[justyourtypicaltuesday]

An addition to my Logan speculation

I swear I have other theories, but I was thinking and noticed something else from my favourite episode (WTIT) that ties in with my last post.

In the end card, Logan says:

"I suppose this isn't the worst distraction Thomas could have."

That quote's been rattling around my head for a while, and I think I've figured out why. Using the series' own logic (pun sort-of-intended?), distractions have their uses: when Thomas can't reasonably do anything in the moment to solve the problem, and when Thomas is overwhelmed with intrusive thoughts and needs a break to reset.

However, by the end of the episode, Remus leaves. This means that Thomas logically should tell Nico he's busy, schedule to hang out another time, and finish cleaning his apartment. But he doesn't do this. So why is Logan accepting an illogical conclusion?

I think it comes back to self-doubt. We've seen before that a side can lose confidence in their opinions over what Thomas should do. In fact, we've now seen every other core side do this. Roman in Selfishness V Selflessness, Patton in DWIT and SvS Redux, and Virgil earliest of all in AA.

So, it's Logan's turn. Going forward, we might see Logan react in a similar way to the others when they've experienced this before. Being more hesitant to share their opinion, relying more on supporting points by others and doubting if what they believe really is true.

I find it hard to believe that Logan's objective has changed so quickly. He's been solidly established as putting Thomas' health first, more-so the way of supporting what he needs over what he wants. This contrasts with the other sides, most of all Patton and Roman, who mostly act on Thomas' desires.

That means that Logan is either in the process of re-evaluating his position on the matter, or, more likely, is suppressing his thoughts and, in a way, lying to the others.

This is where my theory comes in. I've already explained that I believe a Janus v Logan conflict is coming, and Logan lying is the perfect setup for that. What is even more interesting is that it's becoming more and more likely that this conflict is going to come from a Janus-sympathetic standpoint.

In conclusion, Logan's doubting himself and learning to hide his opinions and this is most likely going to be used as ammunition for Janus to have solid ground to stand on in the finale. I am a strong believer that Janus has a larger plan for the sides, with honest intentions to improve Thomas' life in a way the core sides will protest against, but that's a conversation for another day.

[justyourtypicaltuesday]

So What's Up With Logan? - a speculating post for the season 2 finale

While I, like everyone else, am anticipating the season finale, I thought I might as well summarise my thoughts in a post.

In LNTAO, Logan outright explains he's irritated with being repeatedly ignored.

"There will be times in which I must be heeded and given our... current circumstances... I clearly haven't been."

This really stands out to me. It's no secret that due to being consistently talked over, shut up and disregarded, Logan's struggling to deal with his emotions- and keep up the facade he puts up pretending he doesn't have any. This is only evidenced further when he throws paper at Roman. But this quote almost feels like foreshadowing, suggesting that there will come a time Logan's the only side with the right answer, and because of the sides and c!Thomas' practice, they won't listen to him and will exacerbate the problem doing so.

Another interesting quote from LNTAO is hidden in plain sight- the overlapping verses from Logan and Thomas in Incomplete.

"This just serves as a testament to the fact that you have a temperament, which is fine, you just haven't accepted it, if you'd let them finish they'd get to the-"

"This just serves as a testament to the fact that to me you're negligent, which is fine, it just works to your detriment, you not letting me finish is proving my-"

Both verses here provide context into Logan's character. This confirms that c!Thomas is fully aware that Logan has emotions, specifically a temper, and that, in his eyes, the song was an attempt to get Logan to accept that part of himself. This could be setting up a very powerful scene in the finale, Janus and/or Thomas confronting Logan at a point when Logan pretending he doesn't have emotions is actually damaging Thomas as a whole.

Additionally, Logan feels neglected by Thomas. That's a word which is not used lightly. He points out that being ignored is actively causing detriment to Thomas, which he conveniently doesn't hear as he's talking (singing?) over him at this point in time.

They're both right. Logan is ignored to the point of detriment, but he also thinks highly of himself ("I'm the most important side here!") and often disregards the others' contributions until he's actively proven wrong. This is a repeated character flaw of Logan's. It's also seen Growing Up, Moving On, and even in Asides like Can Plushies Improve Our Health?. While Logan's been the cause of minor conflicts in the series, having him cause a problem on a scale similar to Patton in POF would be intriguing to see from a narrative standpoint. It's clear that in the latest episodes, Logan is struggling and maybe at some point soon, constantly being antagonised by c!Thomas and the other sides is going to have an effect.

This brings me to WTIT. This is the last plot-dependent episode we've had, so it naturally is where a lot of my theories are coming from. While we can see a lot of Logan's progress as a character- specifically in prioritising Thomas' mental health- we also see his lowest point so far. Thomas' mental health has been steadily declining since SvS, introducing Remus, the discussions during POF and this episode all make it obvious. And this is reflected in Logan. Despite taking precautions and relaxing the schedule so Thomas feels comfortable, Logan loses his cool when he yells at Remus. What the orange eyes mean is TBD, but Logan's emotions in that moment say one thing and one thing only: he can't keep it down much longer. Each time we see Logan lately, he's been more and more distressed. In LTNAO, he throws paper at Roman, in SvS he's left out. In DWIT he's exasperated the whole time trying to calm down the others. In POF he's clearly done with exerting any amount of effort getting them to listen to him. And here is the result of all that pent up anger.

"I just want to help Thomas become the best version of himself he can be, and in order to do that, he needs to listen to me. Unlike yours, my methods aren't the flashiest, and it's not very often I get the chance to get through to him. Please understand my insistence on the matter."

The words right before his outburst mean a lot too. Logan's been already established as a perfectionist, but here he outwardly admits his goal is to improve Thomas as much as possible. We've already seen c!Thomas second-guessing himself because of difference in opinion between sides, so here's an opportunity to explore Janus v Logan conflict. Logan questioning Janus' advice to Thomas to take it easy could mean that the rest isn't as effective as it could be and cause a problem they'll need to discuss. Logan's been largely absent from Janus-related episodes, so an argument in which Janus explains Thomas has worth as he is while Logan is focused on perfectionism and improvement is not unbelievable at this point in the story.

On the topic of Janus, I believe he's going to play a huge role in Logan's character development. The main thing holding Logan back is that he's lying to himself. He repeatedly insinuates and sometimes outwardly states that he doesn't have feelings, and both c!Thomas and Janus know this is a lie.

"I don't feel anything."

"Oh, of course you don't."

My theory is that Janus, as practically a living lie detector, is going to confront the sides about the lies they tell themselves, and being more truthful about themselves will help Thomas long-term. While this can be explored for each side, I'll save that for a post for another day and point out how specifically Logan's lie about not having feelings is already questioned multiple times in the series, setting it up to be confronted soon.

In conclusion, my speculations for the season finale are:

Logan's going to have another outburst- in full view of c!Thomas and the other sides this time, and it will have to be addressed.

Janus/Thomas and Logan are going to confront each other, Logan over being repeatedly ignored and sidelined, and the others over Logan consistently lying about not feeling emotions.

Logan is going to be the outright antagonist in at least one episode of the finale, along the lines of Patton in POF.

On the contrary, in one episode Logan will have the right answer, but be ignored because... well, duh.

Janus v Logan conflict is going to be a large plot point- addressing perfectionism and to what extent you should accept yourself as you are and to what extent you need to work on growth.

If you got this far, thanks for reading. It's my first post as a blog and I hope you enjoyed reading my guesses to what we'll see surrounding Logan in the finale. I'm planning on continuing with in-depth analysis of other sides and other theories I have, but so far this is what I've gathered in regards to Logan's direction at this point in the series.