lochlogie

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thinking about that thing lochlan does with his hands when he’s insecure about something. you know. when he fidgets with his fingers and like half-clutching them in a fist. yeah

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my happy intoxicated baby!!! look at him go!!!

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After full moon party night, Saxon starting to wear shirt everywhere, even at the beach and the pool is the one of most amusing thing in the show! Like, the way he was covering up around Lochlan 😭

This is borderline cornplating to me, I think. Because you have a point, Saxon clearly doesn't go to the pool just to swim, now does he? But at the same time, if he's not going to get into the water, it makes sense that he'd be wearing normal clothes. But is it a coincidence that he doesn't feel like swimming after the FMP?

He's not exactly walking around shirtless at the villa, at least not during the day. The only thing he ever seems to do is go creepily scout for his next vict- I mean- hookup. He presumably goes to the gym, why wouldn't he? He only goes to one treatment, right? Maybe the masseuse reported him and they shadowbanned him from that 😭

He goes to breakfast and dinner with his family every day, and it seems like for most of the day in between, yeah he's by the pool. Or he's chilling at the villa. He doesn't even go to the beach until the last day.

So that's not a ton of opportunities to go around shirtless. Immediately after he gets back from the yacht, I mean he's hungover, complaining about "low serotonin," so I don't think he'd swim in the pool either for fitness or to be on the prowl for bitches. Is that necessarily connected to his icky feelings about Lochlan jerking him off? Well maybe.

You could be onto something, that there's an element of shame and regret making this man cover up his tiddies. But if that were a deliberate choice, I would like it to be telegraphed a little more? Like, have Saxon in his room, getting changed, and have him hesitate and then throw on a shirt. Or have him decline to take off his shirt because Chelsea/Chloe invited him to get in the water, something like that?

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lochlan's little "...😐👐 no..." saxon you are a freak!!!

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poor baby seated on the back of the cart all alone..........

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we haven't talked enough about lochlans face journey after saxon unleashes the Worship Me line. Girl was buffering in real time over that.

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how do you think tim's views on masculinity differ from sax's?

Generationally girl! Saxon views masculinity as a young stallion, sowing his oats, having fun and doing what he wants and achieving his very superficial goals. Tim is a Patriarch, he's a husband and father and leader of a company. He's the classic paterfamilias with some Southern Charm. He's in charge, but it's more collective. He has more to lose than his pride, he has a wife and children he has to take care of and protect, and give the best life possible. That's the source of his pride.

Saxon has never been responsible for anyone. He may be responsible for some people's financial assets, but it's heavily implied he does not have a lot of responsibility or power at work. He has no family, and his clumsy attempts to be a big brother to his siblings do not count, and he sucks at it anyway lol. We don't know if the Ratliffs ever had pets but I doubt Saxon would ever have been the one taking care of a dog or whatever. He has no nurturing instincts in him at all. And to be Father you have to be a little bit supportive and nurturing. That old school masculinity kind of paradoxically seems a little more feminine to a lot of braindead gen-z alpha bros.

So yeah, Tim views masculinity as success and power, just like Saxon, but they have different priorities. Tim is a protector-provider as well as a leader, whereas Saxon sees himself as a stud, focusing on hedonism and imposing his will on everyone around him. Tim's view is a little more mature, family oriented, leaves room for dissent and different opinions... stuff like that. Saxon's view is not mature, at all, and is solely about himself, his wants and needs, no room for argument, no margin of error.

I actually think Tim would be a little disgusted by Saxon's behavior if he didn't also have a "boys will be boys" mentality, and didn't recognize his younger self at least a little in the kind of shit Saxon gets up to (or at least got up to in college). So I think he's torn, knowing his son is not setting himself up to be a protector-provider, nor a success in business... but he can't help but respect him as a man who's healthy, strong, hardworking, and shares most of the same values as him.

I can so easily see them fighting over politics. Because there would be a lot of subtle differences to their shades of conservatism. I actually headcanon Tim as one of the last Blue Dog Democrats. Saxon would be off the rails Republican, maybe even alt-right.

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personally we don’t talk enough about how excited lochy was pressuring his brother into doing drugs- the little head nodding and laugh at the end.. 😭 he’s adorable

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via Patrick’s Instagram <3

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got bored and made Saxloch Chiikawas fuck this stupid chungus life

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Another dead giveaway, there's something colloquially known as postcum (or at least that term used to be used), which essentially means that after climax, he'll feel the urge to piss. All these fics about guys blowing their loads and then immediately tucking themselves back into their pants, what are we doing?

As long as we’re airing smut grievances- dead giveaway that an author has not biblically known a penis is when they vastly over estimate the amount of precome that gets generated

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Also with regard to "You're protecting yourself with your female side," again that doesn't need to be Real, anymore than if a Catholic had said Lochlan committed a sin by having premarital sex and homosexual contact with his own brother... that wouldn't mean anything if you don't believe in that.

But I think it gets at the "A lot of big personalities in my family" line Lochlan said right before. Because Tim and Saxon are both big burly masculine archetypes in their own ways, and they impose their will on the family, especially Lochlan. A lot of male-only social dynamics are in fact centered around a pecking order. So Lochlan, being the smallest and youngest, is inevitably forced to the bottom.

How could he not be feminine if he's not allowed to express the stereotypical masculine traits? He's not allowed to impose his will on anyone, he's not allowed to be aggressive or dominant. He's not allowed to have his own ambitions or make his own decisions, and it's pretty clear that his talents and skills are not praised very often. He's the Beta Male, through and through. Which not only feminizes him but infantilizes him.

And to make it worse, both Victoria and Piper are pretty outspoken and opinionated in this supposedly patriarchal Southern family. Tim allows Victoria to speak her mind and exert her control over their children just as much as he does. Tim also quietly supports Piper standing against Saxon whenever she wants, and Saxon isn't powerful enough to put Piper in her place. Victoria, while favoring him, doesn't seem to want Piper put in that place either.

So that's four people with big personalities who have free reign to talk over Lochlan, boss him around, shame him with impunity, touch him however they want, dictate his life decisions for him, get him to shut up, discipline him, and a whole bevy of other things. Most of all, they get to shunt him off to someone else when they get tired of taking care of him/looking out for him/parenting him...

Lochlan is possibly the most feminine member of the Ratliff family, if only because he's by far the most submissive. He's the runt. But, as Victoria likes to say, he's still a Ratliff, superior, destined for greatness. So that combination of being patronized and dominated but also cherished and coddled? That's very similar to what old school sexism treated ~young ladies~ like.

And I bet that Lochlan's only defense in the whirlwind of his family is to lean into that perception of him. He's a helpless baby, why would you hurt him? He hangs back, guarding himself and his emotions, speaking softly, listening and waiting, biding his time, only expressing himself when it's safe. He has to be ornamental, a wallflower, just to avoid shrapnel. Even then he gets pulled into Saxon and Piper's war all the same.

Lochlan could never have protected himself with his male side, because 1) I don't know a lot about Theravada Buddhism but would the male side even sit in a defensive posture to begin with? 2) If Lochlan ever tried to be assertive he'd get shut down immediately. He must be demure and mindful.

The only times he ever gets mad and "aggressive" are: his frankly bizarre attempt to needle Piper about her sex life, his "one day I'm gonna take you down" which was clearly meant to goad Saxon into roughhousing with him, his "I don't fucking know anything" + glare combo to Victoria, which is still said very softly, and his "Sucks..." and shoulder check to Tim during the toast. Wow what a violent hoodlum lock him up for baby crimes!

And look how all of them react: Piper attributes his words to Saxon, and gets mad at Saxon, and swims away, sparing Lochlan a judgmental glare. This is the closest anyone comes to considering Lochlan as his own person with his own agency. Saxon does not take Lochlan seriously at all and starts roughhousing with him, making sure to ruffle his hair and kiss his head, cementing Lochlan's role as cute and harmless little puppy brother. Victoria raises her eyes like she's surprised he would dare talk to her like that, and he looks pretty sheepish after too. Tim is too high out of his mind to respond but he doesn't give in, and notably Lochlan submits immediately. His only plan was to just reach for a piña colada, and if that didn't work, pout?

I don't mean to conflate passivity with femininity. Piper, the only daughter, is much more active in her life and Tim and Victoria don't actually have a problem with her being active, they have a problem with the worldview she's adopted. Victoria especially is afraid it will undermine her own world view. So clearly Lochlan being so helpless in his family is being deliberately portrayed as at the very least, unmasculine. Maybe in a way, Lochlan's whole role in the family and his core characteristics are agender, not feminine.

Maybe the posture guy has a binary way of looking at the world, and female side is just the language he had. But he spoke with some concern in his voice, like that wasn't ideal. Maybe employing his female side cancels out Lochlan's male energy or something, leaving him neutral. I don't know enough about Buddhism or Thai culture, or what entities haunt Mike White's dreams.

As I always say, much to fucking think about.

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if one drunk and high handy makes you gay then the entire world would have been gay. It don’t mean anything.

I personally have never given my bro a handy while drunk and high, have you??

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Not the anon who asked, but why did Saxon tell Piper she was agender and Asexual? Like Piper was clearly feminine. Asexual but I can still understand, Saxon thinks she isn’t laid yet.

Piper isn't that feminine, at least not in the ostentatious way Victoria is, with all her scents and baubles and garish patterns. Piper is humble and simple, preferring minimal makeup, plain dresses, and when she's relaxing just shorts and a t-shirt. She's not tomboyish by any means but I don't think she's embodying the kind of femininity that her family wants.

This is headcanon territory but had she taken cotillion classes she would've either flunked them on purpose (if such a thing is possible) or at the very least not excelled.

To a guy like Saxon, who's not an old school traditionalist misogynist like Timothy probably is, a woman being essentially asexual is not a good thing to him. It's an active declaration of autonomy. "I'm off limits." That must enrage him. And then on top of that, calling her agender is 1) just insult to injury, she's so not normal in Saxon's mind he has to throw another term he heard once from a blue hair they/them coffee shop acquaintance; and 2) a reaffirmation that Saxon does not consider sexuality separate from gender. If Piper does not have sex and actively chooses not to (in his mind) she is not being a woman.

Likewise Lochlan's (whose sexual attraction to men or women or both or neither is completely irrelevant to Saxon) still being a virgin, probably long past when Saxon lost his virginity, is proof that Lochlan is not being a man. With Piper, Saxon can let it go, because a sexist society will straighten her posture eventually (I wonder if he gets off on that train of thought). With Lochlan, Saxon cannot let it go. The collective masculine pride of the Ratliffs depends on all the male members adequately performing masculinity, being men (never you mind that Tim clearly has a different idea of masculinity from Saxon).

There's also the possibility that seeing Piper's "influence" on Lochlan, and how pretty nonsexual and neutral with his gender performance (which to be fair neutral is coded as masculinity in a lot of ways) he is, Saxon is able to more sharply distinguish Piper from "other girls." Essentially, if Lochlan is the way he is, agender and asexual (a lump of unformed clay begging for someone to mold him- which in and of itself is not a very masculine mindset lol), and Piper either made him that way or wants him to be that way, she must be agender and asexual too. Lochlan's asexuality and agender...ism? Must be coming from somewhere.

Because again a Man would never let himself be influenced that way. Lochlan must be the victim of some nefarious scheme to feminize Western white men! Or at the least, Lochlan is naïve and neurodivergent and he humors Piper's "bullshit" when he shouldn't. But he doesn't know any better. So Saxon of course thinks Piper is literally (as in metaphorically) castrating their little brother with her, philosophy? Advice? Mere presence? What does she actually do?

And of course, it could just be unserious writing. Mike White obviously wanted Saxon's bigotry to be more playful and goofy than actually threatening, so I'd buy that Patrick straight up adlibbed a lot of that shit. Even if he didn't, it's possible that it's just some vague "I'm insulting queerness and feminism" in a way that wasn't too similar to the likes of Andrew Tate.

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there’s something I couldn’t grasp in WL s3. They made a few queer ( trans) references. Is there any particular reason? Like, Saxon had that penis tucking scene where he mocks asexuals, gets into an argument with piper. I thought that reference there was unnecessary, why is Saxon going to such great lengths to do that. There was ladyboy reference during a dinner scene, Saxon then talks about nuts. Tsunami beach nightmare and Lochy sitting with ; probably) ladyboys. Lochy is most likely bi, not trans then what’s the point.

Well it can mean whatever you want it to mean! And who's to say Lochlan isn't trans? What would that have to do with being attracted to men, women, both, or neither? He never concludes anything. All we know is that he was physically capable of fucking Chloe, and he was willing to touch Saxon sexually. We don't have that much information about his inner world otherwise.

I don't think Saxon's pretending to tuck his penis means much beyond what he was doing in that scene: making fun of Piper and Lochlan. He wanted to pantomime being dickless, so he did. Maybe it means something with regard to Lochlan, but I mean, yeah? Lochlan is the one with all the trans imagery surrounding him.

There seems to be this tension that has something specifically to do with gender and Saxon and Lochlan's relationship to it. All these examples you bring up are meant to contribute to that. Saxon casually disdains women or at least doesn't take them and their inner lives seriously. Lochlan is being pressured (groomed) to not only pursue sex/relationships the way Saxon does, but participate in a weird kind of sexuality that involves Saxon himself. To put it plainly: Saxon thinks Lochlan is hot and is (subconsciously?) trying to get Lochlan to do things that he finds hot.

So is Lochlan taking on a feminine role, being Saxon's plaything, the kind of object he normally treats women as? Or is Saxon feminizing himself, morphing Lochlan (unsuccessfully lmao) into a masculine archetype and Saxon therefore becomes a kind of feminine counterpart (a male Chloe if you will). Or does it mean nothing at all?

I personally think Frank's monologue is primarily meant to be comedic, with some interesting ideas you can apply to the other characters or the show as a whole. But I think Chloe's speech about Greg is more apt for Saxon (and maybe Lochlan too) than Frank's. His greatest fear became his biggest erotic desire, or something like that.

What does Saxon fear? The loss of control that manifests as genuine intimacy and connection. Because he hates himself! And letting go and actually having tender loving sex would expose the part of himself that he can't bear to look at. How does Lochlan fit into that? Well Lochlan is "pure" in that he doesn't seem to have a sadistic bone in his body, and unconditionally loves his family.

Contrast Lochlan's relative innocent question about the trans women and Saxon's snide looks and cruel jokes.

Lochlan is so giving and eager to please that he has sex with a woman he didn't seem that eager to have sex with, lets her take the lead and take control the whole time, and still has enough left over to make sure Saxon is included because he "looked left out uwu." Saxon could never. He takes and contributes nothing in return.

I think that scares him, that his dweeby naive probably autistic little brother is better at connecting to women and pleasing them than he is. So, and this is but one of many interpretations, Saxon eroticizes Lochlan. He sublimates his envy into contempt, and then eroticizes the contempt. He's constantly belittling and bullying Lochlan but he's also obsessed with him. Does he want Lochlan or does he want to be Lochlan?

And wanting to be Lochlan is so shameful that he can never ever let that to the surface. So for the trans thing... it might be metaphorical? Remember their first dinner, Tim and Piper wear pink, Victoria and Saxon wear blue, Lochlan wears purple? But also, Tim and Saxon want Lochlan to go to Duke, Victoria and Piper want Lochlan to go to UNC. He's being pulled by masculine and feminine influences.

Lochlan does have the feminine within him. And I think Lochlan's caring, generous, doe eyed sweet baby boy nature is feminine. Well it's not masculine at least, not the kind of masculine that Saxon approves of. So if Lochlan is kind of girly, and Saxon is a little bit envious of him deep down... I can see a little how the wires would start to cross in Saxon's mind.

Does he want to be Lochlan, be a more feminine man, or does he want the feminine within Lochlan, and the man part isn't a dealbreaker? Much to think about. But the point of all points is that Lochlan is queer coded. That's gender and sexual orientation. I think Mike White found the gender symbolism easier to convey, because frankly, Lochlan's attraction to men at best is his willingness to jerk Saxon off and the fact that he maybe checked out a daddy at the pool early in the season. It's harder to convey attraction to men (and also women, because Lochlan does not really display attraction to women either).

So maybe the gender stuff was shorthand for a general queerness. Speaking personally, I've felt like being gay was kind of the same as being a woman in the past, or at least not a "real" man. You'll find a lot of gay men felt that way when they were younger. Some still do.

And it's obvious to me why. Saxon is hypermasculine, Lochlan is hypomasculine. Both are gen-z men with vastly different relationships to the gender roles they've been assigned. Part of the season (at least their part) is an exploration of/commentary on masculinity in young people and how it's evolving.

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He’s just a little Bambi baby

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