loiutrdxfyuio

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how does one shoot the sun?

does Liam know that noel wrote a song about shooting him dead? no?

oh, he's been missing out.

Liam is both the sun and 'love', 'you' is sara. using the noun 'love' for Liam is something noel has done in his other songs as well ('dead in the water' and 'there she blows' - you can look them up). using the word 'love' in a song doesn't mean that noel is actually capable of love, though. it's just a word he uses sometimes. i can use the word 'billionaire' in whatever writing, doesn't mean i am or can be a billionaire myself.

so if i had a gun is a song about shooting Liam who'd get hurt and wreak all sorts of havoc ('burn this city down') while dying in pain.

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whiskey a go go theory time

for those who don't know, in september 1994, oasis were performing in the USA. one of them gigs - the whiskey a go go one - didn't go so well in the sense that noel sang horribly and didn't play much better, either, however, Liam sang beautifully throughout the whole thing and tony had a pretty good gig as well. guigs and the bone were nothing special but neither were they awful. so with the exception of a wee 'hey we didn't all agree which song to play NOW!' mishap, the gig was alright for everyone except noel.

the gig in question:

why was noel so unglued that he couldn't even perform semi-decently? the official version was, of course, hurr durr meth. but in supersonic (2016) Liam says he took meth as well - and he sang like an angel. was noel's meth different from everyone else's?

theory time: obviously, it wasn't the meth that messed noel up. the meth did nothing wrong and everyone else's performance that night proves as much. so leave the poor meth alone.

what messed noel up to the point he couldn't perform was having sex with Liam. proof:

but... noel had already written lock all the doors, up in the sky, slide away - all his depraved incest anthems? and according to Liam, the 'magic' happened in Liam's childhood bedroom (big yikes). surely noel's unhealthy incestuous relationship with Liam had been long since consummated by september 1994? well, yes. except noel obviously doesn't believe in any sort of equity or reciprocity, so Liam - apologies to the squeamish! - as we know from up in the sky was always left asking 'how does it feel when you're inside me?'. never the other way around.

until september 1994, that is, when Liam somehow managed to convince noel to bottom. and of course noely dearest ended up hating experiencing what he himself would regularly subject Liam to - so he left Liam that accusatory note, as if everything was Liam's fault. we can go on 'like brothers' when i'm banging you, but we can't go on 'like brothers' when you're banging me. and if you dare suggest that we do something YOU would like, i'm going to punish you by leaving you, scaring the shit out of you.

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a revealing tweet from January 2025:

translation: noel called me a cunt. i made it clear that the insult hurt me but he proceeded to gaslight me (like all people with no empathy or any sort of capacity for love do!), explaining that i should be grateful that he chose to insult me. and that an insult is actually not an insult but a nice thing to call someone. and that i'm a cunt. but that's not an insult.

imagine being treated like this and believing that the person who does this to you loves you?

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life with and without incest

a sad and horrifying testimony. a boy from a dysfunctional family is being sexually abused by his big brother (5-ish? years his senior (just like noel to liam) based on the 'i was ten' and 'he was off to college after a couple of years') and thinks they are now ‘married’. his entire life is pretty much ruined because of this, he can’t form long-lasting relationships (just like the 90s and 00s liam) and can’t overcome the trauma of separation (just like liam with the 2009 break-up).

this is not how anyone’s life should ever turn out.

when liam was with noel–either in a relationship (since before 1991 until ggtia so 2005-ish*) or just the band (since ggtia until 2009)–his life consisted of: cocaine, daily drinking, regular displays of inappropriate advances towards his brother, trashing hotels, physical alteractions with journalists, shame (guigs 100% left the band because of the incest, patsy kensit 100% knew about the incest), affairs, endless baby mama drama, a deteriorating singing voice, being constantly ridiculed and reduced to ‘a cool haircut and cool shoes’ so that he could never feel proud of his choices, efforts and character...

and yes, once it was all over, the first 5 or so years were also very bad, because liam didn’t have any healthy coping mechanisms to deal with the nightmare of being a befuddled bangmaid for his degenerate older brother. nor did he have any healthy coping mechanisms to deal with his ‘spouse’ abandoning him.

but since about 2014 liam has put together a life of many a wholesome thing: having stable friends (debbie’s circle), having a stable partner who isn’t constantly bullying him (debbie), having a relatively healthy routine (early to bed, early to rise), running regularly until the hip surgery, no constant boozing, learning how to take better care of his voice, standing on his own as a solo artist, being a legendary twitter funnyman for the younger generations, enjoying his pets, having a better and closer relationship with his brother paul (who has come a long way from his scathing 1996 book in which he ignorantly accused a 12-year old child of ‘tarting himself up’), having a solid relationship with 3 of his 4 children, working together with his youngest son, reconnecting with his eldest daughter, improving his image, writing many beautiful songs of his own, proving himself as a hardworking and serious performer, respectable collaborations with other fine musicians (john squire) who have nothing but praise for him.

ALL of these things came to him when he was rid of the unhealthy incest-marriage burden and when his degenerate ‘brother’-spouse was finally out of the door. and if the abuser is allowed back in his life he will lose all these things. and he will get nothing in return except ruin and suffering. nothing except being reduced to a 'squeaky toy' and a 'slightly disused arcade game'.

it is beyond naive to look at the actual reality of liam's life 1991-2009 (with and without the incest but with the abuser always by his side in the band) and believe it's not going to be like that if the reunion isn't cancelled.

what’s that iconic trainspotting quote? choose life. no, really. choose life. incest/reunion is poison. smack. death.

*using ggtia as an approximate indicator of the early stages of the 'divorce' because it's a bit silly to tell someone you could be their lover if you are currently being...well, their lover.

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most of these are from https://mfokquotearchiv.livejournal.com/ but i guess hearing him actually say it really brings it home:

btw.

Liam has 2 daughters (that we know of). one of them is the spitting image of her father. she’s also the only one that uncle noel has ever taken interest in - until he dropped her like a hot potato.

hmm.

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this is what you do when you want them to never develop their talents.

so… when you hate them.

“Liam will sit in the corner of a dressing room for six hours and play the same two chords hoping that someone will go, ‘hey, man, that’s a great fucking chord change!’ And we all ignore him religiously. And he’ll be just reading the paper before we go on stage and he’ll go, ‘…what’d you think of that tune?’ We’ll go, ‘what tune?’ ‘That tune I’ve just been playing.’ ‘I don’t— nope, what? I wasn’t listening.’”

— Noel Gallagher (via castiel-gallagher)

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who taught them?

when liam referred to his and noel's childhood bedroom as "that's where the magic happened" in the documentary as it was (2019), he was, in all likelihood, referring to the inappropriate turn that his relationship with his brother obviously took at some point. according to peggy, noel moved in with louise when he was 22 (when liam was either 16 or 17, so a minor) so it logically follows that the incestuous behavior had to start before that. before moving in with louise, noel had been touring the states as a roadie. this sets the beginning of the abnormal relationship even further back. how young was liam, exactly...? well, either way he was a minor and noel was an adult, albeit a dysfunctional one.

where did noel get the idea to molest his significantly younger little brother, a minor? incest is learned behavior. so is child abuse. so who's the adult that taught noel? a coach, a teacher, a stranger or...a relative? perhaps... a parent?

let's look at his father thomas. he was clearly a man with issues. his family says he was violent and had mistresses. but has he ever been sexually inappropriate towards any of his children? why, yes, yes he has. he made extremely strange remarks about liam:

and noel 'got the worst' of his abuse, according to everyone in the family. if thomas looked at his own sons with impure thoughts he had likely experienced something similar as a child/youngster himself. according to paul g, thomas had a 'favourite' brother william who 'died in an accident':

according to peggy, thomas chose to take in his favourite brother's son (also william, 7 years old at the time of the adoption) after this mysterious accidental death:

but the little boy didn't stay with thomas's family for very long - paul g does not reveal why the little boy had to leave... if it was due to poverty, why take the child in in the first place? 

theory time: william-who-died-in-an-accident had an incestuous relationship with thomas, killed himself because he was tormented by the memories of said relationship, and by killing himself triggered the following in thomas: 1) some guilt (resulting in the brief faux-adoption of the little orphan william) 2) a desire to recreate the brotherly incest situation to normalize it (if it's normal it couldn't have been the cause of the 'favourite' brother's death) 3) grooming his sons so that noel would start looking at liam (named not at all suspiciously after the deceased 'favourite brother'...) as 'desirable'. liam is probably unaware of what thomas (most likely) did to noel so he doesn't understand that what he has experienced since a very young age was not some kind of 'unusual love' - it was pay-it-forward type of anger and hatred born out of sick generational trauma.

noel has said (many times) that he was/is like a father to liam. well, yes - in more ways than the regular interview consumer realizes. clearly, noel was an honors student - which is unfortunate because in such situations it's much better to be a dropout.

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why was liam so quick to assume noel died?

according to tony mccarroll, the following happened in september 1994:

why was liam so quick to think that noel in particular had been killed?

theory time: when noel was touring as a roadie in the late 80s and early 90s, liam had dreams about his death. according to liam, he's friends with the universe, and some people might describe him as somewhat woo-woo based on stuff like this...:

since noel at the very least molested liam before hitting the road as a roadie, he was clearly a very damaged young man by then. if something extremely traumatic happened to noel when he was on the road (and i suspect it did), noel's soul probably left the chat for good, resulting in liam having dreams about his death, and the soulless, dead-eyed creature wrongfully known as noel walking the earth since.

what got liam all confused was the fact that despite his dreams, he could still talk to his brother on the phone (or so he thought) - and even meet, hug and impress him with his new band upon his return (or so he thought)... so the dreams must have been wrong or perhaps they'd been about some kind of a future event? enter the aforementioned shooting incident and liam's reaction to it. even though liam gets along with the universe, he did not interpret those signs correctly...

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the window to noel's 'soul'

"Liam's like a dog and I'm like a cat. Cats are very independent creatures. They don't give a fuck, right bastards. Dogs are fucking... "Play with me, play with me, please, fucking throw that ball for me", because they fucking need some company. It's as basic as that. Can't change the way that you are."

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noel quotes

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how they see liam

VS

“i have had the empathy and patience to get to know this human being who has these unique character traits – some positive and some negative. i really see him as a multifaceted person with his own dreams and wishes, have witnessed his struggles, and love him for how he is with me and my near and dear ones”

VS

“would bang. oh and *i* am the one who’s actually talented, lest you forget”

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noel quotes

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i see the situation a bit differently. noel was not able to commit to liam. he clung to louise for years and in 1994, not long after breaking up with her, he ran from liam in a cowardly manner only to leave him that insult of a farewell note ('how can we go on like brothers when we do this?'). he eventually returns but starts dating meg in november 1994. a year later, with his public earls court confession ('we love each other and had sex') liam tries to strongarm him into... idk, coming out? into acknowledging the reality of their relationship? but it doesn't work.

if noel didn't want to get spitefully patsy'd, maybe he should have treated liam like a human being whose wishes matter, not a singing bangmaid that he just 'owns' like a kettle or an arcade game...

Normal ppl late night thoughts: Am I doing the right thing with my life?

My thoughts: Did Liam ever realize him marrying Patsy was the beginning of the end of his relationship with Noel?

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getting him to join

from the get go liam's plan hadn't been to merely impress noel by being in a band, it was to get noel IN the band

liam is at first desperate and then genuinely thrilled to get noel, whereas noel is deliriously happy about having louise

but yes, the mission was to get noel in at any cost. kind of like baby trapping someone, but with a band instead of a baby

imagine liam jumping through all these hoops for paul?

so what's it like now that you've successfully smuggled your one and only into the band? must be pretty nice, right? well...:

cutting two-word review... seldom seemed to show any positive emotion towards liam... noel's smile seemed to vanish...

yeah ...

so these are from tony mccarroll's book which is well worth a read or ten

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liam on the seedy underbelly of the popular music industry

i read the article a while ago and remembered his takes to have been more compassionate than they seem now. but still, he acknowledges the problem and that men can also be victims in these situations, which is something that gets swept under the rug more often than not.

i wonder what he meant by ‘everyone taking care of their shit’…

source:

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liam's upapada lagna

in vedic astrology, there’s a concept of upapada lagna (UL) – a segment of the natal chart that reveals the native’s spouse. the spouse in this case does not necessarily mean the person one has legally married – it means the person the native feels in their heart is their other half, the person the native loves and *wants* to marry and feels married to in their heart.  if liam’s floating-around-the-internet-birth-time of 12:58 p.m is correct, his UL is in the 3rd house, the house of siblings. the house is in makara (capricorn for westerners - but be mindful of the difference between the tropical and the sidereal zodiac), occupied by rahu (=north node, the effect of which is making the native obsessed with whichever part of the chart rahu touches, but in an unhealthy/abnormal way. just an example: rahu in the first house of self is likely to make the native obsessed with their self, image and looks, but in a way that is perverse and socially unacceptable. rahu is both ambitious/greedy as well as anti-social/rule-breaker).

the original UL correlates with the 1st marriage partner. if the native falls in love with/marries a new person, the UL moves 8 houses from its original spot, signifying the end of the relationship with the original UL person.

when trying to understand the nature/personality of the native himself, vedic astrology looks at the placement of the moon and, to a lesser degree, the lagna and its lord, and the sun. on may 29, 1967 (noel’s birthday), the moon remained in makara (liam’s UL) up until 8:30 p.m, which is liam’s UL. because of this, i’m pretty confident noel was born before 8:30 p.m. oh and his sun falls into liam’s 7th house (the default house of marriage in any chart).

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emphasizing different things

both noel and liam have spoken about the more... 'unconventional' side of their relationship. but they differ in what they choose to emphasize.

noel almost always emphasizes the ‘illegal’ aspect of it. he’s basically letting everyone know he can break the rules and get away with it. liam is a mere accessory in this situation. he’s the coke in the ‘coke in my cereal’ joke, a mere tool noel uses to convey edginess. noel is like a teenager who’s bragging about getting hammered or doing drugs for the first time.

"Liam's gotten all religious. It''s quite disturbing. He thinks he''s Abel for some weird reason. He wrote a new song called ''Guess God Thinks I'm Abel.'' And I thought, "Right, so you think you're Abel. That must make me Cain. Doesn't Cain kill Abel?" "But then the first line of the song is “You could be my lover.” I’m not too sure about that. That’s illegal, innit? It’s kind of illegal for two brothers to make love. It’s certainly frowned upon.”

"Oh me and Liam are head over heels in love at the moment. In some countries it's illegal but when you're on the road it's fine."

paul gallagher said in his book that noel ‘thrived on doing the wrong thing’:

liam’s appearance/physical desirability is another thing noel often mentions.

liam chooses to focus on other things. 1995, earls court:

he says twice that they *love* each other, the 'had sex last night' line follows as proof/reinforcement of that love. 

years later:

early days - undying love, 'how much he loves me':

"Without a doubt. I don’t need to show my undying love for my brother. Listen, I adore that geezer. And I know he adores me. What do people want, me to fucking impregnate him or summat? [fondles huge imaginary bump] He’s only gone an’ got me up the fucking duff! To prove how much he loves me! Twins!"

'need his LOVE':

"I love him, I adore him, more than anyone else in the fuckin' whole wide world."

"I always thought that when he messed with me he was joking, that he really loved me. But I have the feeling that it is true that he does not like me. It is a pity. I love him"

noel looking at the masses vs liam looking at The One: