m1ssunderstanding

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THEY JUMPING ME

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Very curious about the evidence for them ordering 3 hotel rooms? If you have any of it on hand.

hello hello! this is what I have readily available, from the sale of the beatles....bedsheets

now, one could fairly argue that there was more than one bed in at least one of these rooms, but at the same time, I don't think it's even up to the imagination which pair of them shared a room, and after quotes from paul like "I slept with john a lot" and "in bed", imo its a pretty safe bet that there might've only been one bed

but I'm not satisfied with a safe bet! I browsed around for publicly-available hotel floor plans and couldn't find any above the first few floors. so :) instead I called the san francisco hilton at the listed address in the top right corner and asked them. obviously it's possible that things have changed in the last sixty years, but at least currently, rooms 1548 through 1550 are indeed all single king bed rooms (specifically on the 15th floor in tower 3, which was the one already constructed in 1964. thank you hilton staff)

so I'm about as sure as I can be that paul and john deliberately chose to sleep in the same bed together long after they had the money for their own rooms and beds.

which could mean nothing!

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I love that they broke up and immediately started calling each other baby

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I don't think you're right that: excitement was a normal parental reaction to an extra-marital teen pregnancy.

Like you said, illegitimate pregnancies were far more taboo then than now.

Although I agree that Jim was far less ambitious than Mary, I re-assert that he did have monetary expectations of Paul. He needed Paul to help provide for the family, and he had hopes that Paul would go beyond that and raise the family into a more stable financial rung. Fatherhood would have impeded both of those goals. Therefore, Jim would logically be upset.

I think you bring up a great point that: Jim may very well have expressed himself differently to Paul in private.

Jim did seem to genuinely like and sympathize and even feel protective over Dot. He would've wanted her to be taken care of.

It's Jim's m.o. to be very friendly and warm and accommodating and gentlemanly etc to those outside his immediate family, very capably hiding the dark aspects of his personality that seem to have been reserved for his children.

The fact that still stands is that the cheery disposition Jim put on for most "public" relationships did not extend to John. I've got an anon in my drafts currently on the subject.

the idea of Jim being like “thank god my teenager knocked up his girlfriend because that means he’s not having gay sex with John Lennon”

I knowwwww! The implications of that! No one in the fifties was excited and supportive of teen pregnancy. Most parents, especially of Jim's ilk, would be devastated and furious. You know? There goes the illustrious career you were pushing your son into, supposedly the main reason you didn't like him spending so much time with John Lennon and dedicating too much to a band that should've just been a fun thing on the side. But no, Jim's not even disappointed, he's over here like "the whole family is coming over to celebrate your love! look at this adorable pram i found! you two can move in here together and we'll all be one big happy family!"

I really have to wonder if Paul clued in to that. Like was he just like "yeah my dad loves babies and he loves Dot, of course he's excited." Or did it hit him then that Jim was suspicious of John for more reasons than he'd been forthcoming about? And if that's the case, did it change the way Paul himself looked at his relationship with John, or was he already aware by that point of the sexual aspect of their relationship?

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This is 10000% canon I did not make it up.

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31/1000 births in the UK in the late 50s were to teen mothers. -- Wikipedia. I'd say that's pretty uncommon.

Also, whether it was common or not is not the point. The point is, it would've completely ruined Paul's chance at becoming a teacher or pursuing any other career that required further education, which was what he'd been pushed into since he was a kid, and the supposed main reason for Jim keeping him away from John.

the idea of Jim being like “thank god my teenager knocked up his girlfriend because that means he’s not having gay sex with John Lennon”

I knowwwww! The implications of that! No one in the fifties was excited and supportive of teen pregnancy. Most parents, especially of Jim's ilk, would be devastated and furious. You know? There goes the illustrious career you were pushing your son into, supposedly the main reason you didn't like him spending so much time with John Lennon and dedicating too much to a band that should've just been a fun thing on the side. But no, Jim's not even disappointed, he's over here like "the whole family is coming over to celebrate your love! look at this adorable pram i found! you two can move in here together and we'll all be one big happy family!"

I really have to wonder if Paul clued in to that. Like was he just like "yeah my dad loves babies and he loves Dot, of course he's excited." Or did it hit him then that Jim was suspicious of John for more reasons than he'd been forthcoming about? And if that's the case, did it change the way Paul himself looked at his relationship with John, or was he already aware by that point of the sexual aspect of their relationship?

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“I am quite interested in Paul’s food memories. As a working-class boy from Liverpool, when did you first encounter an avocado, say? “I was in Soho,” he remembers, “and we went to a restaurant with George Martin. We were all slightly mystified by the menu and I thought, ‘I can do this,’ so I ordered an avocado pear for dessert, because I’m thinking pear melba, or maybe it’s going to be like stewed pears, and this sniffy Italian waiter said, ‘That is not a dessert, sir.’ I said, ‘Yeah, I know that. Just kidding you.’ I was about 21.” “And your dad,” says Stella, “brought you back bananas, didn’t he? Because he worked in the cotton trade.” “It was after the war,” says Paul, “when nobody had had bananas, and he brought some back and said, ‘Look! Bananas!’ We’d never seen them or tried them or anything, and we didn’t like them. He was annoyed.” And was your mum a good cook? “Yeah, in the traditional way. I ate what everyone else ate growing up. There was no variation. You knew that if you went to a friend’s house it would be the same as at your house. Just like us, they would have mandarin oranges from a tin with Carnation milk. That was very well accepted.” After you left home and before Linda, would you have cooked? “I lost my mother when I was 14, so there was my dad, my brother and me. My dad would drop into the Cavern where we were playing at lunchtime and he’d say, ‘Here’s tonight’s meal, son,’ and he’d leave me a few chops. I’d get home before him so I’d grill the chops and do mashed potato.” “It’s always his job, the mash,” says Stella.”

— Paul McCartney (and Stella McCartney), interview w/ Deborah Ross for the Times magazine: My date with the McCartneys. (May, 2017)

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the idea of Jim being like “thank god my teenager knocked up his girlfriend because that means he’s not having gay sex with John Lennon”

I knowwwww! The implications of that! No one in the fifties was excited and supportive of teen pregnancy. Most parents, especially of Jim's ilk, would be devastated and furious. You know? There goes the illustrious career you were pushing your son into, supposedly the main reason you didn't like him spending so much time with John Lennon and dedicating too much to a band that should've just been a fun thing on the side. But no, Jim's not even disappointed, he's over here like "the whole family is coming over to celebrate your love! look at this adorable pram i found! you two can move in here together and we'll all be one big happy family!"

I really have to wonder if Paul clued in to that. Like was he just like "yeah my dad loves babies and he loves Dot, of course he's excited." Or did it hit him then that Jim was suspicious of John for more reasons than he'd been forthcoming about? And if that's the case, did it change the way Paul himself looked at his relationship with John, or was he already aware by that point of the sexual aspect of their relationship?

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lol at Jim hating John but loving Cyn

It's because Jim somehow got both the thot daughter and the gay son in Paul, and for those precious moments when Cynthia was around (or Dot, who was also very fond and admiring of Jim) he got to pretend he lived in a different reality.

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oh to have the unedited footage of Paul rambling about pictures of John lmao

Do we think he knows he sounds like a teenaged girl writing in his diary and he just no longer gives a fuck? Or do we think he's as delusional about how he comes off as he is about John? Anyway I agree we need that footage. We need all the footage, actually. It should be the law that nothing is allowed to be edited out of anything Beatles related. Everything that was filmed or recorded must be open to the public like I'm actually not joking.

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Poor Jim, always treated so unfairly in fic...

From time to time John and I would also drop in on Paul's lovely dad. We would never fail to receive a warm welcome from Jim... The warmth I experienced whenever I entered the modest home of this talented family, which was in Forthlyn Road [sic], Allerton, was wonderful. Jim was a father in a million. The cheerful way he coped with a situation that many a man would have run away from was admirable. Usually Jim would greet us at the front door with a tea towel in one hand and a saucepan in the other, his shirt sleeves neatly rolled up around his elbows and an apron tied around his waist. In the kitchen we would be confronted with chaos, a wonderful homely chaos. The chip pan would be on and the tempting smell of bacon and eggs would fill our nostrils. Jim had only to look at our faces and the extra potatoes would be chipped and more bacon and eggs would sizzle away in the pan. Before we knew it we would be sitting down to what was for us a right royal banquet. I always enjoyed my visits to Jim.

Cynthia Lennon, A Twist of Lennon (1978)

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So I know we're all over eyes of the storm by this point but I turned this YouTube video on for background noise and ended up squawking.

After doing the 'it's only me under the glasses' story, Paul says about John, "he was a great guy and I'm so . . . Proud. And happy to have Known him, to have Worked with him, and to have done All That Stuff with him. So that's a huge thing in my life. ( . . . ) For me, the main feeling is just remembering the joy. I suppose, you know, in life, people . . . come and go. (. . .) But you remember the great times you had together, and that's what these pictures do for me." And you can tell they've cut out where he's going on and on about him. And the footage of Paul talking about John looks like this.

Then it cuts to what seems like the only George-related sound bite they had. Paul says, "these days, you'd go the other way, you'd retouch out his pimples. This way we're bringing them Up! Sorry George. You're still gorgeous . . . My little mate! Met on the school bus. Imagine that." And the footage of him talking about George looks like this.

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Honestly actually Paul in the 80s was so cute and hot so it makes so much sense he was depressed and horrible… like mcbeardy was his hottest period in his life and it was all DEPRESSION…

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Paul and Linda Interview from Hellllllll

@slenderfire-blog as the patron saint of good sources sent me this interview and I thought I would write it up as it gives a worrying insight into the famed idyllic marriage and Paul’s mental state at the time.

Reader, it was not idyllic and he was not doing well.

Disclaimer: For context, this interview is in his Broadstreet era aka the grief/midlife crisis/I cant have a meltdown if I’m making a film period. I fully believe that Paul was having an extended emotional crisis/breakdown post John's death/successive unresolved and badly handled traumas. (As I was saying to @slenderfire-blog, let's just say if he feels like crying every damn day about John in 2021, imagine how it was in 1985.) So yeah Paul is having a time and I look forward to McCartney Vol 3. for potential confirmation and illumination on this.

At the same time JESUS FUCK PAUL THIS IS TERRIBLE.

Like so bad, bad to the point I now feel like contemporaneous Peter Cox account is 1000% more credible as this is essentially the PR version of what he said. So let's get into the greatest hits:

The happy, definitely-not-in-trouble couple

They do seem to adore each others company, be locked in with each other and Paul does rely on her a lot for support and approval:

As they talk, Paul constantly squeezes Linda’s arm reassuringly, strokes her hand or looks to her for approval or agreement whenever he makes a point. The two are inclined to talk at once or to finish each other’s sentences. At times, the link is so tight, they seem almost like different aspects of one person.

Though at the same time they both describe the relationship as 'rather volatile' and full of arguments where they go and sulk in different rooms. They lightly play it off but then Linda says a bit too seriously that shes usually the one who gives in first :/.

Paul built the house they live in and are sort of obsessed with cosplaying living the 'peasant' lifestyle with no help save one housekeeper Rose who is from Paul's bachelor days and the occasional babysitter (as far as I'm aware this is true).

The marrying thing in 68 was so intense he even asked lil HEATHER to marry him what the hellllll (of course he wasn't serious but it does feel like another way of indirectly pressuring Linda to commit). He also kept asking Linda until she gave in.

Random swipe in the baby name department at Zowie Bowie, lmao not friends with the Bowies then (good thing Duncan Jones happens to agree).

They romanticise the bickering and volatility as being like passionate young lovers

“My parents were married for 25 years and they were like young lovers,” says Linda. “Paul’s parents were the same. If you’re lucky, you get that in life. You see, those are the kinds of things that matter to me—not the diamond necklace.”

Paul:

Paul is clearly not okay and seems to be regressing by trying to recapture his childhood through his current situation. Throughout the interview Paul keeps going back to his parents marriage and his childhood as the ideal frame of reference. This is pretty standard but Paul takes it to the extreme of this meaning no friends, family only and the wife do all of the labour.

This (save the misogyny) is a far cry from his 60s revolutionary kick but I can see how this happened in the wake of the Beatles split, the trauma and complex grief from John's death and the press. In response and defense to the criticism and hurt, Paul seems to have retreated wholly within himself and his family sphere and is coercing Linda into fulfilling the role of the wife within that. Take for example, his portrayal of the housework and why Linda should like to do it:

“Linda really doesn’t like housework,” Paul explains, “because when she grew up, her family had maids and she wasn’t taught to do anything. But it’s something I’ve tried to tell Linda about because in the kind of family I’m from, housework is considered a pleasure—the smell of ironing and the laundry. Where I’m from, once a week, the women would sort of get the laundry out and smell the washing and feel it and see it and iron it all, and they’d be chatting or listening to the radio. It was like a peasant thing. It was an event, like treading on the grapes.

It's bonkers and infuriating and at first I was like I DONT KNOW PAUL IF YOU WANT THE PLEASURE OF SMELLING DETERGENT SO BAD YOU CAN DO THE BLOODY LAUNDRY. But then you realise how Paul connects it with comfort, especially with comfort after a bereavement:

“Growing up in Liverpool, that was always there for me. Even after my mum died, my aunties came around religiously every week and cooked and cleaned the house and did the laundry and provided that kind of atmosphere for us.”

It's romanticising the poverty he grew up in but also signifies to me how much it's a coping mechanism. He wants Linda to do the laundry and have that idealised maternal domestic atmosphere as in his head if you have that then you can carry on even in the face of cataclysmic loss.

Denny Lane's comments about Linda being like a mother to Paul feel really pertinent here. Reading all this has kind of reinforced to me this idea I've had for a while that Linda's maternal attributes was one of the foundational pillars of Paul's attraction to her and an essential part of their marriage. In another interview I'll post another time, he says they never went on holiday without the kids, with them taking tiny Heather on their honeymoon. It wasn't just tours, the kids really did go everywhere with them when they could and they made sure the children's bedrooms were just next door to theirs so they could be there all the time. It's great, wonderful parenting but also with the genesis of their relationship it's really hard not to see Linda and the promised family as the replacement to fill the hole from the Beatles. Not saying that he didn't go on to adore them and them be the pinnacle joy of his life but yh ... once you see it it's hard not to unsee. (Also the thing I've always been too scared to say/wild speculation again I don't know these people ... but I think they would have always had these problems until Paul actually reckoned with his mothers death/other traumas.)

Thinking about it all as well, it must be so hard to essentially cosplay the culture and background you grew up in with wealth and class separating you from everything you used to intimately know

Aggressive optimist Paul telling a very different story here (is he more honest here, more depressed, or maybe somewhere in the middle?)

“I’ve got all these contingency plans. I tend to look at the worst side of things. I’ll say, ‘If they turn us down, we’re going to do this.’ If anything hurts me, I want to fight it—so it doesn’t hurt me again.”

Nothing to add just ... ouch.

Reinforcement of John refusing to let Paul hold Sean because Paul 'didn't know him' ... which yh that is some bullshit its a baby. Paul goes onto mention how John wasn't great with babies as he had no experience whilst he had and somehow makes it borderline a competition lmao.

HALFWAY THROUGH I REALISED THIS WAS THE INFAMOUS PLAYGIRL 'JOHN SAID JEALOUS GUY WAS ABOUT ME' INTERVIEW. I NEVER REALISED LINDA WAS THERE.

Not him essentially saying 'in hindsight maybe Linda needed a lot of lessons' for Wings and admitting he just wanted her there. They both seem to accept it as something that wasn't fair to expect of Linda with no training.

He does this embarrassed little giggle like 'oh I may be a chauvinist YES YES YOU ARE SORT YOURSELF OUT.

Linda ohh my GOD Linda girl

She has rings around her eyes from exhaustion

Gets up at 7am to do the breakfast every morning despite going to bed late

Said she didn’t want to get married again initially as she had been controlled by men all her life until then

Says her kids are her best friends and that she never had a friend until she moved to Arizona later on (this is interesting to me that both Paul and Linda both saw themselves as 'loners' in childhood even though interviews from people in Paul's childhood repeat that he was popular. Maybe this was a narrative in their marriage or maybe Paul always felt internally lonely).

Qualifier here: I also don't think the best friend thing is true, there are a few people that pop up over the years who say they were very close to Linda and one did a lovely interview with Paul post Linda's death. I think the whole 'family is all you need schtick was part cope and part PR.

From apparent tradition Paul says that he doesen't tell her how much he's worth and their money situation as 'his dad didn't tell his mum' (even though his mum was integral to financially supporting the family may I remind you Paul). Linda girl listen I can make you happy I can give you a good life and treat you to nice things come with me Linda-

Theres one point where Linda PANICS because Paul mentions the supposed socialist uprising potentially taking all their money because HE WON'T TELL HER WHAT THE FINANCIALS LOOK LIKE. THIS FUCKER (also socialists Paul you're a northern liberal get a grip you class traitor)

They both romanticise living frugally with Linda not buying any nice fancy things ... its hard not to remember Peter Cox's account of Linda asking to borrow money when reading this :(((((

Linda's idea of a luxury holiday is not having to cook and clean and she can have fun :( Paul then interjects with 'yh that's great for a bit but not all the time as isn't it nice to have the family all in the kitchen!!' I'm sure Linda would agree if you actually helped Paul.

In summation: he needs help and a slap, she deserves a statue but would probably prefer a sit-down. Thank god there’s a lot to suggest that Paul has improved massively when it comes to his view on women and labour (wouldn’t have married a working businesswoman if they hadn’t) but this is still a difficult window into how things were in the 80s and the life that campaigners like Yoko were fighting against.

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I seem to not be able to find an interview or source of Paul (or George but I'm more involved with P & J ) of him ever really admitting he caused problems only half maybe a little bit - excuse of himself hurtig people but there are quite a few from his co-writers who has opinion about Paul that makes him look not so pleasant at times to work with. It's to my understanding very rare to find a proper oh I was wrong, or I'm sorry from him at all. Ofcourse John went out of the line but it seems like Credit and creactivity was the only way to reach a reaction from Paul and John even admitted it he went too far with it, John was never that likeable anyway but I tend to think you become similar to the once you're around a lot maybe he picked it up from John? I can understand some of his anger a bit. I don't really mean anything with this post but you seem to understand Paul and why is he like that? He tries so hard to be likeable but he can't seem to can't be unless he's very private about it. I wanna feel sorry for him so much but someone who can't admit his own shit stinks makes it harder. You know it's all there because of the songs he writes and his children he feels more than he admits. Hoping you can gimme some pointers or Links to Paul's mind lol.

Ahh oops I guess I didn't delete this ask but accidentally put it in my queue what the hell okay so here's where I answered it already.

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Other elements of [Gene] Vincent’s character they were less keen about. For some reason, he zeroed in on Paul and kept offering to knock him out cold by touching two pressure points on the back of his neck, a trick he said he’d learned while serving in the Marines. Paul didn’t fancy this one little bit, and though Gene kept insisting he’d only be unconscious for a few seconds, Paul made sure his neck stayed beyond the American’s reach.

(Tune In)

Men being normal about Paul in new and different ways