mach9000

[mach9000]

Funny, ain't it?

YouTuber: Hey, I swear and cuss and yell. But my videos is not geered towards children. It's not my job to monitor your children and make sure they only consume content age appropriate to them.

Anti: Yeah. People shouldn't be expecting random YouTubers to make content for kids.

Horror Writer: Hey, I make graphic and scary media. But my books/movies are not meant for children. And it's not my job to make it appropraite for children/

Anti: Yeah. They made it clear what the movie was in the trailer/poster. If a child watches that and gets scared it's their own fault. The writer made it for adults not kids.

Adult Show Creators: Hey, my show has sexual jokes and violent imagry. But it's not my fault if a child sees my work. My shows are for adults, not children.

Anti: Yeah. Not everything is meant for kids. It's up to parents to make sure their children don't see inapropriate material.

Libriarian: Hey, we have a variety of books including books parents don't agree with. But I'm not payed to monitor what children are reading. The most I can do is ask a child if they know what they're reading and if it's in their age bracket. But I can't memorize the morals of every parent of every child who comes here to make sure they're reading approved books. And it's absurd to expect me to.

Anti: Yeah. Book banning and censorship is alt-right tactics and disgusting. It's not libriarians' jobs to make sure your child is reading books you approve of. If you don't want your child seeing somehting you don't approve of, you monitor them.

Proshipper: Hey, I make content with taboo themes and imagry. But I make it clear children shouldn't be seeing my content and it's not meant for them. My content is meant for adults and it's not my job to parent random people's children.

Anti: That's groomer logic! Keep that shit to yourself! What if a child sees it!? You deserve to rot in jail! KYS! Pedo! Children don't listen to DNIs! We should be protecting children from this degeneracy!

[mach9000]

[mach9000]

If you are in any online spaces that discuss the morality of fiction or its censorship, please keep the following in mind:

CSAM refers to Child Sexual Abuse Material. This is a term that was created for use by US federal law enforcement. As such, it is important to remember that this is a term used specifically to describe illegal sexual content that is produced involving real children. the term CSAM was specifically constructed to highlight the trauma these victims experience because of this abuse, and therefore their humanity.

if you come across CSAM online, you should immediately report it to a tip line. Some websites that host their servers in the US are subject to US federal law even if the person who posted it does not currently reside in the US, so keep that in mind when reporting. again, this is involving CSAM - it is illegal sexual content involving real children.

CSEM refers to Child Sexual Exploitation Material. This is material that involves a real child in a sexualized situation, but either 1- the material itself is not illegal to possess, or 2- the material is not sexualized, but is included in a series or other content that does contain CSAM. Think along the lines or a parent with a few too many photos of their child in the bath. These images are not explicitly sexual, and are not illegal in and of themselves, but they can be used exploitatively.

If you come across CSEM online, it's still a good idea to send in a tip as well as alerting the website it was posted on. Even if the content itself isn't technically illegal, some websites do have strict rules regarding nudity and the sexualization of minors, which can help stop the spread of such materials and reduce the impact on the affected child.

CSAM and CSEM are words used to describe the assault, abuse, sexualization, and exploitation of real children. CSAM, specifically, is used as a way to identify and remove these materials.

CSAM and CSEM do not apply to fiction. They don't apply to any fictionalized or simulated child abuse or sexualized children. They only refer to real children.

Do not send in tips about fictionalized child abuse or sexualized children to tip lines meant to be used for CSAM.

Do not use the words CSAM and CSEM when discussing fictionalized child abuse or sexualized children. In a worst case scenario, it leads to people misusing tip lines due to a conflation of CSAM with fictionalized depictions.

In a more likely scenario, using CSAM to refer to fiction minimizes what CSAM was created to do - which was highlight the trauma experienced by survivors, and therefore draw attention to their humanity. By continuing to use these terms in situations that do not involve real people, it reduces that impact.

[mach9000]

People who use 💀 in an argument unironically are a huge red flag

Agreed.

[mach9000]

hey do you guys remember when like. brother/brother and sister/sister and brother/sister ships werent just normal, they were really common? parent/child ships werent as widespread as sibling ships but you still saw both of them a lot. like you used to see incest ships all the fucking time.

like you couldnt go five minutes on this hellsite without scrolling past wincest or thorki or any number of the dozens of popular hp incest ships. do people not remember the onecest takeover? the onecest dynasty? what about elsanna? what about all the fontcest that came out of the undertale fandom? mha fans loved shipping the entire todoroki family together. what about game of thrones just in general? the hitachiin twincest? literally everyone from osomatsu-san? usuk and all the other incest ships from hetalia? fucking HOMESTUCK?

it used to be that you couldnt throw a rock in ANY fandom without hitting a whole bunch of super popular incest ships. it was everywhere. it was NORMAL. because people didnt care about what anyone else liked in fiction, because everyone knew the difference between fantasy and reality. and its not like incest hasnt been one of the most popular porn categories all over the world for years.

now though, with the huge resurgence of evangelical puritanism in western fandom and the massive influx of alt-right christofascist antishippers, nothing is allowed to just be fiction any more. braindead little conservative assholes and bigots will scream and shit themselves over people shipping the elric brothers because fandom isnt allowed to be fun any more. antis will see someone talking about sebaciel and start spewing their disgusting rhetoric at everyone and being TERFS and wannabe cops until nobody wants to participate in fandom any more.

fandoms are dying and its antis fault

[mach9000]

the “shipping p*dophilia normalizes it and emboldens p*dophiles!” argument is so funny because it’s the exact same argument used to dehumanize trans people. this idea that p*dos are walking around— sad that they have no children to take advantage of and then jumping with joy that the child ships eri and deku from my hero academia— which means they’re “easier to groom” is so silly. that’s exactly like saying that rxpists will pretend to be trans to sneak into women’s bathrooms and take advantage of them. a real r*pist would just sa. a real p*do would just groom. there would be no pretense that outlandish. anyone willing to take advantage of a child would do it regardless.

i don’t even ship anything p*dophilic but it’s such a logical fallacy

[mach9000]

18. amab. pro-ship, pro-fic. if it’s not real, i don’t care.

-

“this ship/fic can be used to groom minors!” - people have used minecraft to groom minors. there’s no fail-safe way to avoid minor abuse online beyond educating them and spreading awareness. and i promise you, no child has ever been pushed into, say, marrying an old man, because of sebastciel shippers online.

“this ship/fic has incest!” - this sounds controversial but the ONLY two things that make incest wrong in real life is 1) if a straight couple procreates and inflicts deformation on their child (which is bad obviously) and 2) if there is a power-dynamic inherent within the relationship (father/daughter, mother/son - again, obviously bad) but, considering most incest ships are between two siblings (no inherent power dynamic) and are often gay or between minor characters (no procreation) - both limitations are defied. the only reason an anti would think incest was gross in the case of, say, a gay pairing between two brothers, is because of social and cultural taboo — not morals.

“you ship incest? so you would date your brother/sister?” - i have no siblings in real life. however, i know there’s a biological blocker that stops most people from being attracted to their siblings, so no, i probably wouldn’t be. i don’t really condone incest in real life but again, if theoretically, if i had a brother the same age as me and we were both gay - there would be nothing morally wrong with it, no matter how “gross”. however, reality and fiction shouldn’t be hand in hand ever, and a pro-shipper has siblings, they are unlikely to be incestuous - they probably understand the difference between fiction and reality.

“you’re okay with p*doph*lia in fiction? so you’re a p*do?” - no. is vladimir nabokov a p*do for writing lolita?

“vladimir nabokov was writing about how p*doph*ilia was bad!” - 1) if lolita was written today, anti-shippers would call him a p*do. they’ve shown time and time again that context and media comprehension doesn’t matter to them. 2) are the john wick writers condoning murder because they make a guy look cool while doing it? no. it’s fiction.

“i’m a victim of csa/abuse and pro-shippers make me uncomfortable” - that’s fair. don’t interact with your triggers and feel free to block me. why make yourself feel uncomfortable for strangers on the internet?

“this fictional relationship is toxic/abusive” - that’s what makes it interesting to dissect. if you want to read about happy characters who are eternally vanilla, flower crown wearing, golden retriever owning hufflepuffs or whatever - read a coffee shop au.

*99% of anti-shipper logic is the same sentiment that leads to book banning and book burning. you can be uncomfortable with a ship or piece of fiction without pretending the creator of said fiction is an evil demon who needs to be eradicated. grow up, or don’t. i don’t care. just don’t harass people over ships between 2d anime boys who aren’t real for the sake of policing.

[mach9000]

"Proship will desensitize you to-"

You tell people to kill themselves—adults and children alike—without thinking anything of it.

Anti-ship rhetoric has desensitized you to child exploitation, harassment, and suicide.

Stop worrying about imaginary, hypothetical problems and confront your own disconnect from empathy.

[mach9000]

I miss when I was younger and I could say to my friends at school "omg I love sebaciel and the hitachin twins are so cute" and NO ONE WOULD BAT AN EYE. If someone tried to just say that openly now they'd get accused of being a pedophile or condoning abuse or some weird shit like that. Please take me back to 2016 I miss it so much I miss when people felt free and were able to enjoy fiction the way they wanted without having to live in fear if being harassed.